Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Woke Hogan

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

What a prickish comment. But then, what would one expect from someone who started a thread about "that one who was convicted of murder isn't so hot now, wha? Amirite lads?!"

You could have quoted the whole post but nah, cherrypicking for the win. Nowhere did he say anything to condone execution of the boys. He said the anger is understandable, which it is. Not everyone is all cool and indifferent like you.

So fail on the misuse of "virtue signalling" which is actually what YOU are doing. That's what his entire post is about - being more bothered by stupid posts than what happened to Ana.

And of course it isn't the most cringey comment on the thread. Idiotic comment by you.

So this discussion should just be sober "RIP Ana" posts peppered with the occasional outburst from some troglodyte who thinks we should bring back the death penalty? And their views cannot be challenged whatsoever because it looks like that the person challenging them doesn't care about what happened to Ana? Or what is it you want exactly?

Gadgetman496

It's ridiculous that they will legally have anonymity into adulthood, for life actually.

Why should they be afforded that?

Somedaythefire

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Yeah there is so much "ah shur all teens and pre teens are at it" by people who did same when that young, but they're "all" really really not.

That's what makes the waving away of the extreme porn issue annoying. No it isn't the standard for a kid that young to be getting off on stuff that extreme and dark.

Well yeah there's a sold 25% there who aren't doing it looking at that statistic.

Sunflower 27

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

It's hardly surprising that there is such a level of anger.

I never said I wasnt surprised. It's absolutely justified.

Mrsmum

....... wrote: »

A couple of years ago a colleague went to a pre-secondary school parent teacher meeting type thing with all the other parents and some IT security expert.

The IT guy told them that something like 74% of 11 year olds had sent a naked or partially naked picture of themselves on a social media platform.

Pretty much every parent in the rooms shook their heads and said "no - not my kid".

OMG that is shocking. I'm like those parents, can't believe that's true.

.......

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Yeah there is so much "ah shur all teens and pre teens are at it" by people who did same when that young, but they're "all" really really not.

I dunno - I think its just realistic to expect that kids of 11 might be sexting.

Or accessing pornography.

Not all are, but its not a tiny minority either. Its worse to pretend it isnt happening at all.

It happens, so we need to deal with that reality.

SirGerryAdams

Not sure why anyone would want to have kids nowadays...

Peer pressure, bullying, anonymous apps. I'm sure majority of parents are blinded to the lives of kids these days.

I know that myself, I was able to not be affected by these things, I was my own person but I'd have massive reservations about whether I'd like to put a kid in the same position.

How many future parents are sitting down watching Love Island every night where the whole premise of the show is about looks and status and backstabbing and causing drama? It's only going to get worse.

Gimme A Pound

Deleted User wrote: »

No death penalty please, let these murderers live out as many of their remaining days as possible in custody.

From reading of the case notes, you get the impression that remorse over what they did to Ana is non-existent, the only remorse is over the fact that they were caught. So I hope they spend the rest of their lives haunted if not by what they did to Ana, by what they did to themselves and the fact they were caught.

Wherever they go, whatever years they serve or don't behind bars, may their own minds be a prison.

Exactly. That's a very well written way of refuting the silly execution posts and actually showing a sh1t given about Ana.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I also wonder did any adults ever think Boy A was a more than just a bit of an oddball? Or why Boy B was on the garda Pulse system?

You just don't think a kid is going to do that though. I'm thinking back on my own peers in school and where they are and every lad who was obsessed with knives and gore and Satan, most of them turned out fine. I have one friend who was a scary guy back then; big, volatile, violent, obsessed with Satanic stuff, heavy drinker from about 15. He now makes custom hardwood furniture, really likes swing dancing, is trying to set up a permaculture hub where we grew up.

And then there was the similar guy from the school in the next town who killed his sister with an axe

As for the Pulse thing, in the article it said they used it to find his address, that combined with the fact that he'd never been in court before led me to infer it was an adult at the same address who was on the system but I guess it could have been him, for something minor enough not to require a court appearance though.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I think you'll find that "now is the time or place" [sic]. This is a discussion forum and people are espousing the virtues of the death penalty, it is the responsibility of anyone with a three figure IQ to point out that those views are idiotic.

Any chance you’d actually condemn the crime? Did you keep refreshing the pages until you could virtue signal?

As for your supposed three figure IQ that’s not in evidence in your dull dull life of rural idiocy or your online textual flatulence.

Strazdas

xalot wrote: »

That comprehensive Irish Times article is fantastic and very subtlety points to the home situation of Boy B. Paraphrasing from memory but he’s described as highly intelligent and good at school despite coming from a household that didn’t support academia. His father had tried unsuccessfully to get him into sports but he didn’t take to it, his father bought him two smart phones to get him into technology but he lost them. After his awful outburst in the courtroom it seems like his father was a person who didn’t take well to getting his own way.

Read somewhere else that the father said that when asking Boy B what had happened he wouldn’t tell him as he ‘didn’t respect him and didn’t want to share his truth with him’. If I was a suspect in the rape and murder of a child you could be damn sure my father would make me ‘share my truth’.

I also find it very strange that the family chatted to the Gardaí at the doorstep the night Ana went missing (when B was the last person to have seen her). Surely they’d have invited the Gardaí inside? Certainly my parents would be mortified that the neighbors would see the guards outside. This together with the house being listed on the pulse system suggests it wasn’t the good family home the defense were trying to present.

Am not bringing that up in any way to excuse the actions of B. Have no doubts the jury came to right decision.

One other thing I picked up in the article (brilliantly written) is that the state pathologist believes A launched a violent physical attack on Ana the moment she arrived inside the abandoned house - not some slowly escalating incident that somehow got out of hand. That would strongly suggest premeditation and that B must have had an inkling this was the plan all along.

Necro

Deleted User wrote: »

No death penalty please, let these murderers live out as many of their remaining days as possible in custody.

From reading of the case notes, you get the impression that remorse over what they did to Ana is non-existent, the only remorse is over the fact that they were caught. So I hope they spend the rest of their lives haunted if not by what they did to Ana, by what they did to themselves and the fact they were caught.

Wherever they go, whatever years they serve or don't behind bars, may their own minds be a prison.

Here's the thing, there's not a remote indication that any aspect of their behaviour was wrong from them. Even the reaction to the verdict by Boy B's father shows that.

mynamejeff

Omackeral wrote: »

You can literally be killed for being gay in some of those countries listed.

you can also be killed for being a murdering raping animal or drug dealing piece of sh1t.

i guess its all about finding a level.

its a shame that there will never be a capital punishment law in Ireland again

its not about punishment or reform or fixing social wrongs , its about protecting innocents from those who would victimise them for lack of consequences

.......

joe40 wrote: »

It happens but not that high. 75% of 11 year olds sexting, I find that hard to believe.

You'll notice I said naked or partially naked. And I didnt use the term sexting because its not just sexting that happens.

It includes kids sending non pornographic images of themselves such as in underwear etc...

And its not always for the reasons you might think (ie, sexting). Girls might be sending each other pics of themselves in training bras to "brag" that they now wear a bra etc.

Naked/partially naked is a very broad category. And you no doubt still wouldnt want your kid to be in that category even if it wasnt for "sexting" purposes.

SirGerryAdams

What bugs me is not knowing.

Not knowing what exactly happened.

- Was Boy B aware of what Boy A was going to do?

- What exactly did Boy A plan to do?

- Did Boy B bring her to the room and she was immediately attacked with weapons or did Boy A walk into the room with her like Boy B said?

- Did he plan on killing her?

- Did he kill her and then sexually assault her or the other way round?

- Was Boy B there watching it all or did he leave? Or did he assist?

Gimme A Pound

Woke Hogan wrote: »

So this discussion should just be sober "RIP Ana" posts peppered with the occasional outburst from some troglodyte who thinks we should bring back the death penalty? And their views cannot be challenged whatsoever because it looks like that the person challenging them doesn't care about what happened to Ana? Or what is it you want exactly?

Was responding to that Observer account specifically, but to answer you, no. Challenging the execution posts can be done in a reasoned manner like Stu has done above, rather than "I'm disgusted by a thing you typed about two murderers and you've a low IQ and wah wah", pretending as if the anger is over something minor.

Necro

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Yeah there is so much "ah shur all teens and pre teens are at it" by people who did same when that young, but they're "all" really really not.

That's what makes the waving away of the extreme porn issue annoying. No it isn't the standard for a kid that young to be getting off on stuff that extreme and dark.

Wasn't there plans to introduce some sort of licensing to access those sites bandied about before? I know there's always a way around that but surely in the light of cases like this something should be considered.

I'm not a prude or anything, I've watched porn on the web many times - but the fact that it's free to access by absolutely anyone is a bit weird in all honesty.

.......

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

What bugs me is not knowing.

Not knowing what exactly happened.

- Was Boy B aware of what Boy A was going to do?

- What exactly did Boy A plan to do?

- Did Boy B bring her to the room and she was immediately attacked with weapons or did Boy A walk into the room with her like Boy B said?

- Did he plan on killing her?

- Did he kill her and then sexually assault her or the other way round?

- Was Boy B there watching it all or did he leave? Or did he assist?

Everything you have asked has been extensively reported on!

Bigbagofcans

Deleted User wrote: »

From reading of the case notes, you get the impression that remorse over what they did to Ana is non-existent, the only remorse is over the fact that they were caught. So I hope they spend the rest of their lives haunted if not by what they did to Ana, by what they did to themselves and the fact they were caught.

Wherever they go, whatever years they serve or don't behind bars, may their own minds be a prison.

The sad reality is that since they have no remorse, they will not be haunted by what they did to Ana. They will be released in their twenties with the freedom to move away and start their lives again.

KrustyUCC

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

It's ridiculous that they will legally have anonymity into adulthood, for life actually.

Why should they be afforded that?

Their photos were shared on FB earlier

I'm sure plenty of people saw those post before they were taken down

dickangel

Melanie Tangy Appendix wrote: »

As for the Pulse thing, in the article it said they used it to find his address, that combined with the fact that he'd never been in court before led me to infer it was an adult at the same address who was on the system but I guess it could have been him, for something minor enough not to require a court appearance though.

The parents only knew Boy B's first name and didn't know the parents. So I think it was Boy B on the system for something pretty insignificant to the whole case.

Woke Hogan

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Any chance you’d actually condemn the crime? Did you keep refreshing the pages until you could virtue signal?

As for your supposed three figure IQ that’s not in evidence in your dull dull life of rural idiocy or your online textual flatulence.

Condemning the crime for the sole purpose of impressing internet strangers would be virtue signalling in my view.

This isn't Bebo, I don't have sit here and puke out "rip ana so sad xxx" over and over again to show my concern.

Sunflower 27

Strazdas wrote: »

One other thing I picked up in the article (brilliantly written) is that the state pathologist believes A launched a violent physical attack on Ana the moment she arrived inside the abandoned house - not some slowly escalating incident that somehow got out of hand. That would strongly suggest premeditation and that B must have had an inkling this was the plan all along.

She was 5'8. She wasn't a small child. The coward wanted to knock her out or at least maim her so they had the upper hand.

We don't know how tall/big the boys were but 5'8" at 13 is very unusual.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

....... wrote: »

I dunno - I think its just realistic to expect that kids of 11 might be sexting.

Or accessing pornography.

Not all are, but its not a tiny minority either. Its worse to pretend it isnt happening at all.

It happens, so we need to deal with that reality.

In what way? Acceptance or prohibition?

I trend towards the latter but not sure how it can be enforced.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

petrolcan wrote: »

Are you seriously telling me that you never did anything that could be construed as bullying when a teenager?

The point I'm making is that all teens did/do it, even without thinking. Give them a criminal record for it and see what happens. It'd be like giving everyone a 2:1 degree for writing their name on a bit of paper.

I picked on someone as a teenager (yes, I hugely regret it) but I don’t think that everyone did just because I did. Many of my contemporaries never did.

blackwhite

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I also wonder did any adults ever think Boy A was a more than just a bit of an oddball? Or why Boy B was on the garda Pulse system?

There’s a few pointed items in the long Irish Times piece about the home environment Boy B was raised in. Certainly the implication that it played a part in some of the life choices he made

Standman

tuxy wrote: »

Here's a list of countries with the highest rates of capital punishment, which of these utopias should we base our justice system on?

China
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Iraq
Pakistan
Egypt
United States
Somalia
Bangladesh
Malaysia

I'd happily live under some backwards dictatorship as long as my thirst for vengeance is satisfied. I'm outraged and therefore nothing else matters, you see.

Cryptopagan

mynamejeff wrote: »

you can also be killed for being a murdering raping animal or drug dealing piece of sh1t.

i guess its all about finding a level.

its a shame that there will never be a capital punishment law in Ireland again

its not about punishment or reform or fixing social wrongs , its about protecting innocents from those who would victimise them for lack of consequences

There are countries with the death penalty with much worse problems with violent crime than Ireland, so it obviously doesn’t work as a deterrent. And it’s vanishingly rare for anyone convicted of murder to go on to murder anyone else. It neither deters nor protects the public, so what purpose would it serve?

GreeBo

Omackeral wrote: »

You can literally be killed for being gay in some of those countries listed.

Since we are listing irrelevant facts.
A lot of those countries have great summer weather.

Necro

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I also wonder did any adults ever think Boy A was a more than just a bit of an oddball? Or why Boy B was on the garda Pulse system?

There's any amount of reasons Boy B could have been on Pulse. A passenger in a traffic accident as one example. Issues in the home being another.

He wouldn't necessarily have had to have a prior record for being recorded on the system.