Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

retro:electro

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Yes she was stunning, but she was a person too, underneath her looks. There was more to her than just looks.

Nobody is arguing the opposite. It’s okay to complement someone, no one is saying that’s all that mattered about her.

brooke 2

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Were I his Dad and doubted his conviction I may have done the same myself. Undignified and it'd portray me in a bad light but I may not be able to compose myself were my own son to be convicted of something I felt he was innocent of.

And when the Gardai came to the house there was no indication then that it was anything other than a check on a girl who'd not come home for a few hours. He left it to his wife and kid. It was not a murder investigation then.

Why did he not accompany his son to the garda station? That was left to his wife.

Galwayguy35

I see people on FB are saying they have pics of them and are ignoring the Garda warning and are going to keep them so people will know who they are when they get out.

iamwhoiam

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Yes she was stunning, but she was a person too, underneath her looks. There was more to her than just looks.

Yes i do know that, I don’t need to be told that

mrjoneill

MrMusician18 wrote: »

This is the problem with mandatory sentencing. There is no reason for them to plead guilty since it's life either way.

The argument is that they may as well take their chances with a jury as you never know what could happen. But if the boys had been able to plead guilty and get 8 years for example, there would've been no trial.

Common Law for murder is mandatory life but in this case under the childrens Act sentancing is discretionary. In theory they could be back in the par in Lucan all too soon. I hope not. For that level of criminality 20yrs min is needed.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

I read that one of the boys under interview asked for his mother to leave the room. Sounded like he was about to tell more but didn't want to in front of her. We are too soft allowing parents to hold their kids hands through interviews anyway

What about innocent kids?
Damn sure I'd be in the room for mine.

Spanish Eyes

Regarding Oberstown. I am sure there are many psychos and criminals and so on there with a history of sexual assault and worse as inmates, sorry guests. We will never know THEIR names either. All under 18, and many will gravitate towards the adult detention centres too once age of 18 has been reached.

Not run by the Prison Service. Not sure by whom. Probably Children's Minister.

It is very sad, but unfortunately the law abiding citizen often pays a very high price, whilst the perpetrators continue to avail of court ordered anonymity and so on.

I don't know what to think sometimes. Some criminals even under age are probably not capable of being rehabilitated. That has to be accepted.

Lackadaisical

One issue that's been really hitting me over the last couple of days is that Ana was hard of hearing or partially deaf and there are REALLY poor services, supports or even basic understanding of this in mainstream schools in my experience anyway.

It's just been bringing back horrible memories of my own school days as I also spent a few years with hearing difficulties and I just remember how isolating it was and how I was bullied by both students and had extremely unhelpful teachers because of it. She may have had much better supports than I had, given she's 20 years younger and I have no idea of her personal circumstances other than what I read, but I really empathise with how she may have felt.

The issues I had were resolved eventually by surgery in my mid-teens, but I just remember how it felt being just that bit cut off from what was going on around me. I couldn't always follow conversations, I found Irish almost impossible and teachers would just accuse me of being dozy or a space cadet. I'd often have books slapped down on the desk in front of me or hands clapped in front of my face, much to the amusement of my classmates. It was a little distracting when the world sounded like I was listening through a bucket of water and I had permanent tinnitus.

I also spoke far too softly, again because of the ear problem as I heard my own voice much louder than I was speaking. That used to get me mocked, people whispering at me, teachers telling me to 'speak up!' and often actually mocking me about it e.g.: "use your big boy's voice!" when I was in secondary school and all of that kind fo thing.

The result was everyone thought I was a bit weird and I'd relatively few friends.

Anyway, I'm not trying to make this post about me, rather I'm just trying to illustrate a point about the dire lack of support services for people with auditory or similar issues in Irish schools. We also have really poor public and even sometimes private ENT services by international norms. On numerous occasions I've had to wait more than 6 months to get a private appointment and the public clinics have ludicrous wait times. Teachers seemed to have absolutely zero understanding of the problems and there were no screening programmes, certainly that I ever encountered anyway, so my issue weren't even picked up and I didn't get proper supports.

All I'm saying is schools need a hell of a lot more support services for people who might just need a little bit of understanding and I'm sure this probably applies to people who've other challenges too.

Thinking back on it though, it really was horrible to have peers who basically mocked, teased and isolated rather than helped.

There are a lot of issues being raised by this case for society in general about bullying and it's a discussion that we really need to have.

BeerWolf

Lil' ****s ought to be dragged out onto the streets and be shot. But ofc the State will protect these ****s while giving them at most probably 5 years, while the girl's parents will suffer for life knowing what these monsters did to their child.

GreeBo

Necro wrote: »

At 15 they likely know of more ways than those teaching them to do to send or access inappropriate stuff.

Should really be starting from primary school, I agree. Department of Education are still stuck in the 80s in that respect though.

It's a difficult one though...you could end up teaching this stuff to some very innocent and naive kids just because some other kids of the same age are more....aware.

I know two 12 year olds raised in similar circumstances and both would be very different in terms of learned sex ed.

mrjoneill

Mrsmum wrote: »

Only seemed one verdict possible. At least Ana and her parents got justice there.

I have teenage boys and I am shocked that boys their age would be capable and desiring of doing this awful crime. I actually feel for their families too. No one expects their 13 year old to do the likes of that.

I will never again look on teenagers of the same age as being gullible innocence. This criminality of these 2 I assoc with hardened criminals.

Happy4all

I think it's time to change the law re anonymity when found guilty.

Do they lose that right anyway when they reach 18?

gozunda

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I don't see how as Boy A was waiting in his gear the moment Ana arrived

Both boys were seen carry backpacks.

Only Boy A's was found afaik

They other unsounded issue is with Boy b's mobile phones

His father painted a picture of him as not into social media etc and that he had 'lost' two phones that had been bought for him

In light of the thousands of seriously fuked up pornographic images boy a had on his phone - I wonder did boy b's phone disappear deliberatly.

GreeBo

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

Department of Education will argue that they don't have time in the day to have these types of classes.

Scrap all the pointless Religion lessons, significantly reduce time spent on Irish and have a few mandatory classes a week on consent, bullying, mental health, life skills.

If it's a toss up between removing the bully or rehabilitating them I know where I'd vote tbh

Galwayguy35

Happy4all wrote: »

I think it's time to change the law re anonymity when found guilty.

Do they lose that right anyway when they reach 18?

No they will have it after they turn 18

uck51js9zml2yt

flos1964 wrote: »

Fair enough ...you might not but somebody ...anybody...no thats bull****...lots of them knew.

My concern is that everyone knew she was bullied in the school. Why did her parents leave her there? Why not move her?

Spanish Eyes

GreeBo wrote: »

If it's a toss up between removing the bully or rehabilitating them I know where I'd vote tbh

I think bullies at school age work in packs, herd mentality. What do they do with them then?

Happy4all

gozunda wrote: »

Both boys were seen carry backpacks.

Only Boy A's was found afaik

They other unsounded issue is with Boy b's mobile phones

His father painted a picture of him as not into social media etc and that he had 'lost' two phones that had been bought for him

In light of the thousands of seriously fuked up pornographic images boy A had on his phone - I wonder did boy b's phone disappear deliberatly.

Kids these days won't leave a phone out of there hand. Strange to lose two.

Spanish Eyes

Happy4all wrote: »

I think it's time to change the law re anonymity when found guilty.

Do they lose that right anyway when they reach 18?

Not sure, but would like to know. AFAIS in the Bulger case in UK the perpetrators were given new identities.

I think I would like to know if they might be in my locality when they are released.

But as I said earlier there are many children in Oberstown who are anonymous and probably will be forever for the crimes they committed. Some of which are serious sexual assaults, amongst other awful crimes.

I think once they reach 18 their identities will be revealed anyway by someone somewhere.

It is a different thing when an adult murderer is released, people will know who they are, what they look like and so on from media reports. No so with child murderers.

Be interesting to see what happens at the sentencing hearing.

cj maxx

Rogelio Purring Dresser wrote: »

My concern is that everyone knew she was bullied in the school. Why did her parents leave her there? Why not move her?

How can you blame parents for that? Pbs

Wanderer2010

I really really hope there is a God. Very hard to believe in one when a lovely naïve innocent child is raped and murdered by two absolute demons. What the fcuk is wrong with this world?

iamwhoiam

Rogelio Purring Dresser wrote: »

My concern is that everyone knew she was bullied in the school. Why did her parents leave her there? Why not move her?

Why not ask them ? Honestly this victim blaming is so unnecessary

BarryD2

brooke 2 wrote: »

No surprise that the psycho behaved in that thug like manner in the courtroom yesterday.

It was reported earlier this afternoon that the crackdown on FB and Twitter was initiated by the father/ parents of Boy B. Perhaps he's as keen to hide his own identity as much as his sons??

Which I suppose begs the question that if Boy B cannot be identified due to the Childrens Act, can his father or parents??

tuxy

Rogelio Purring Dresser wrote: »

My concern is that everyone knew she was bullied in the school. Why did her parents leave her there? Why not move her?

She was receiving conciliating, her parents believed she had some psychological issues and if that was the case moving school may not have helped and may have even exasperated these issues.

AudreyHepburn

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I see people on FB are saying they have pics of them and are ignoring the Garda warning and are going to keep them so people will know who they are when they get out.

Whilst the idea of these boys being protected by anonymity for the rest of their lives does not sit well with me this is just silly reckless irresponsible behavior.

What good will it do except land those sharing the photographs in jail. That’s not going to help anyone least of all Ana and her family.

tuxy

BarryD2 wrote: »

Which I suppose begs the question that if Boy B cannot be identified due to the Childrens Act, can his father or parents??

Of course the parents can't, try to think about it logically.

Happy4all

Happy4all wrote: »

I think it's time to change the law re anonymity when found guilty.

Do they lose that right anyway when they reach 18?

Apparently not. Was listening to an NUI law professor on radio this evening and he was asked that question.

ChuckLarry

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Not sure, but would like to know. AFAIS in the Bulger case in UK the perpetrators were given new identities.

I think I would like to know if they might be in my locality when they are released.

I could be wrong but I remember reading somewhere that they were actually given new identities a second time as the first ones had become public knowledge

Jimbob1977

My fear is that the judge's hands will be tied during the sentencing process by legislation.

I'm expecting an outrageously short sentence.

TheDiceMan2020

It is sickening reading about the way these two evil fcuks are going to be treated now they have been convicted.

Molly coddled with everything made available to them.

While Ana's life is over.

We badly need to rethink the liberal policies that have turned the system into a complete joke where criminals get better treatment than their victims.

I won't hold my breath. People will still vote for parties that endorse this bull****