Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

secman

ChuckLarry wrote: »

I could be wrong but I remember reading somewhere that they were actually given new identities a second time as the first ones had become public knowledge

One is currently in jail again afaik under his new identity, for child porn on his computer, a totally fcked up person by all accounts .
The other lad afaik has never come to police attention since his release.

Dante7

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Whilst the idea of these boys being protected by anonymity for the rest of their lives does not sit well with me this is just silly reckless irresponsible behavior.

What good will it do except land those sharing the photographs in jail. That’s not going to help anyone least of all Ana and her family.

Well I now know their names and what they look like, so there is zero chance of my daughter ever dating either of them in the future.

omega man

At the beginning I had thought it was strange that they’d gone for a murder charge against boy B however as the daily updates from court were released it became very clear why.

It’s worth noting they couldn’t use Boy A against him as he had pleaded not guilty and therefore hadn’t incriminated boy B. Detectives still built a strong case without physical evidence or Boy A testimony.

I’m surprised that with the clear cut case against boy A that he didn’t admit it and bring boy B down with him...

Dante7

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

My fear is that the judge's hands will be tied during the sentencing process by legislation.

I'm expecting an outrageously short sentence.

The Judge's hands aren't tied. He can sentence them to life if he wishes.

Fr Tod Umptious

secman wrote: »

One is currently in jail again afaik under his new identity, for child porn on his computer, a totally fcked up person by all accounts .
The other lad afaik has never come to police attention since his release.

Yes Venebles has been in all sorts of trouble since he got out, totally fcuked up as you said.

Thompson has not been heard of since.

Lackadaisical

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

My fear is that the judge's hands will be tied during the sentencing process by legislation.

I'm expecting an outrageously short sentence.

There haven't really been many of these kinds of cases, but in 2005, Mr Justice Barry white sentenced a 15-year-old to life for murder, the only exception being that he was to be brought before him in a decade for review. He was released in 2016.

There's a good bit of background to that in Conor Gallagher's article from May last year:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/children-charged-with-serious-crimes-face-different-criminal-justice-process-to-adults-1.3508849

There's nothing preventing a judge sentencing a minor to life, but it's just not mandatory whereas it would be in an adult case of this type.

Also with regards to the absolute injunction on identifying them, it includes publishing any identifying features such as their school or family details. It's really broad and would be somewhat open to interpretation by the court, as far as I am aware anyway.

tuxy

omega man wrote: »

I’m surprised that with the clear cut case against boy A that he didn’t admit it and bring boy B down with him...

Here's why, no penalty for a not guilty plea, hoping that Garda would slip up and it would be downgraded to manslaughter.
This needs to change, there needs to be a penalty for dragging out a long case in front of a grieving family in the hopes of getting off on a technicality.

OwlsZat

Dante7 wrote: »

The Judge's hands aren't tied. He can sentence them to life if he wishes.

The sentence will be life with a review of the sentence after 10 or 12 years.

They should be named. Anna was named and made every headline going. They shouldn't be spared the same treatment.

80sChild

Dante7 wrote: »

The Judge's hands aren't tied. He can sentence them to life if he wishes.

Correct. The only constraint is that a childs sentence cannot exceed the maximum an adult would get for the same offence. An adult would get life for this so that is immaterial here.

jobbridge4life

TheDiceMan2020 wrote: »

It is sickening reading about the way these two evil fcuks are going to be treated now they have been convicted.

Molly coddled with everything made available to them.

While Ana's life is over.

We badly need to rethink the liberal policies that have turned the system into a complete joke where criminals get better treatment than their victims.

I won't hold my breath. People will still vote for parties that endorse this bull****

What we badly need is for people not to take one horrific case, no matter how horrendous, and try to use it as a tool to advance their own political agendas.

___

I'm prepared now to be down voted into oblivion.

I don't know what sad, needy impulse exists in people who won't stand up to the bully next to them, that makes them imagine they are somehow the one fool who can 'tell it like it is, and give those boys what they needed'. You wouldn't dare. You are a saddo behind a keyboard. You don't know the details of the case, you don't know the families involved. You have so much you could do right now and tomorrow to really genuinely improve the lives of all around you and lessen the chances of horrors like this happening again.

AND YOU WON'T. Because you'll be on here moaning and cribbing about judges letting people off easy and other sh!te like that. The next time there is a rape case half of you will be saying the woman basically asked to leave the accused's house bleeding and bawling because 'sure didn't she go in, in the first place'.

Disgusting. Repulsive and pathetic.

screamer

OwlsZat wrote: »

The sentence will be life with a review of the sentence after 10 or 12 years.

They should be named. Anna was named and made every headline going. They shouldn't be spared the same treatment.

Named and every detail they could scrape up about her fed to the world. She got no privacy, she got no dignity, they took her life, they should get no anonymity, their names should be fed to the world too. Ana’s family had to go through all that because of what they did, I don’t see why their families should be protected either.

jimmynokia

My two cents.. The media are milking this for one and why protect these two when this was calculated. Archaic laws protect the guilty yet again im pretty sure parents would want to know what these two look like for future reference..
Also the images are now widely circulating around whatsapp I know it kinda answers the above but the law needs to change and how are people using message apps going to be done??? Or as many have suggested on social that this is just scare tactics, Do we not have a right to know regardless

Lackadaisical

The laws aren't that archaic. They only date from 2001.

Ursus Horribilis

Dante7 wrote: »

Well I now know their names and what they look like, so there is zero chance of my daughter ever dating either of them in the future.

That's assuming (a) the photographs of the right people are being circulated and (b) you'll still be able to recognise those children when they grow into adulthood. Anyone can grab a photo of two lads, scribble A and B on it and set it off into the wild west that is social media. Sometimes I wonder who are the adults in this situation.

Sunflower 27

gozunda wrote: »

Both boys were seen carry backpacks.

Only Boy A's was found afaik

They other unsounded issue is with Boy b's mobile phones

His father painted a picture of him as not into social media etc and that he had 'lost' two phones that had been bought for him

In light of the thousands of seriously fuked up pornographic images boy A had on his phone - I wonder did boy b's phone disappear deliberatly.

For clarification, I was not saying Boy B didn't have a backpack. Not sure how you read that into it. I think he did and that was identified on CCTV.

The question I was responding to was did Boy B bring the murder gear and my response was it's unlikely he did as he would have had to give it to A without Ana seeing, who would then have to get changed before attacking Ana. It makes no sense. I also think the mask was A's from the previous Halloween.

Also, B is cunning. I think he knew the less he did the better. Yes, he could say he was seen with her, but beyond that there was nothing linking him to her actual attack. He got to see her brutally murdered but could still say he wasn't there as no DNA would link him.

I believe he felt safe in that knowledge. Possibly so did his father and that explains his outburst. I'm sure B was told by his legal team that they had nothing on him directly linking him to the crime. He probably felt he had a good chance of getting off.

Surely the gear was tested for B's DNA as well as A's and Ana's? I didnt read anywhere his DNA was on it.

donkeykong5

secman wrote: »

ChuckLarry wrote: »

I could be wrong but I remember reading somewhere that they were actually given new identities a second time as the first ones had become public knowledge

One is currently in jail again afaik under his new identity, for child porn on his computer, a totally fcked up person by all accounts .
The other lad afaik has never come to police attention since his release.

The " other lad " as you call him is still a murdering bastard!

AudreyHepburn

Dante7 wrote: »

Well I now know their names and what they look like, so there is zero chance of my daughter ever dating either of them in the future.

And how do you propose to protect her from them when you’re locked in a jail cell?

Also how can you be sure that the names you’ve been given and pictures you’ve seen are in fact A and B? It’s dangerous to just assume you’ve been told correctly.

Let’s try thinking logically about this and leave the emotion out of it.

Galwayguy35

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Whilst the idea of these boys being protected by anonymity for the rest of their lives does not sit well with me this is just silly reckless irresponsible behavior.

What good will it do except land those sharing the photographs in jail. That’s not going to help anyone least of all Ana and her family.

I get what you're saying but I'm old enough to remember the James Bulger case and now those 2 are adults and Venebles had a partner before he was sent back to prison who had no idea about his past.

Fair enough to grant them anonymity now but once they turn 18 and are adults they should be named so future partners would be aware of their past.

I also see Boy B appealing and possibly winning an appeal.

No forensic evidence linking him to the scene.
No evidence that he planned this in advance (isn't that the difference murder and manslaughter?)

It also looks like a serious amount of manipulation from Boy A (who absolutely should rot, btw)
And reading between the lines of the reports it looks like there's a lot of psychological abuse coming from his father ("I tried to make him into a man, but he wasn't interested")

Was there ever a reason as to why they were tried together? I can't see why Boy B's barrister agreed to that.

It's such an absolute horror show though. My heart goes out to Ana and her parents, knowing how she suffered. My baby got extra squeezes over the last few days.

Horrific stuff.

Dwarf.Shortage

Hoboo wrote: »

They won't get much with a euro.

More than they'll get with nothing

brendanwalsh

Thank everyone of ye who is naming these boys online and posting pics.

The country needs to know and be protected from these animals.

Rip ana, gone too soon from a world too cruel.

AudreyHepburn

screamer wrote: »

Named and every detail they could scrape up about her fed to the world. She got no privacy, she got no dignity, they took her life, they should get no anonymity, their names should be fed to the world too. Ana’s family had to go through all that because of what they did, I don’t see why their families should be protected either.

I agree they should be named and shamed if ever the law changes in that respect but their families don’t deserve to be treated like they are the guilty ones. They have done nothing wrong as far as we know and I find it highly unlikely they raised their sons to be murderers or psychopaths.

Ursus Horribilis

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Thank everyone of ye who is naming these boys online and posting pics.

The country needs to know and be protected from these animals.

Rip ana, gone too soon from a world too cruel.

Please prove that these are the correct boys in the photo. Evidence please.

Sunflower 27

In this day and age it's near impossible to stop the spread of photos. There will always be people that will not care about the law and also others that believe strongly enough to take the risk.

I'm sure all the people that went to school with them know, and their families and relatives.

jobbridge4life

Dante7 wrote: »

Well I now know their names and what they look like, so there is zero chance of my daughter ever dating either of them in the future.

Honestly... this has to be the dumbest comment I've read today.

A. You think you know what they look like, based on randos on the internet posting it.

B. Would recognize John Venables today? Do you even know who that is? Does your daughter? Will you forever remember these two, from a blurred picture you saw alleging that the subjects of same were the pair in this trial?

C. How are you going to police who your daughter 'dates' when she is an adult? You going to follow her into coppers with a picture of these two as children and compare to whoever she might shift?

Heroditas

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I also see Boy B appealing and possibly winning an appeal.

No forensic evidence linking him to the scene.
No evidence that he planned this in advance (isn't that the difference murder and manslaughter?)

It also looks like a serious amount of manipulation from Boy A (who absolutely should rot, btw)
And reading between the lines of the reports it looks like there's a lot of psychological abuse coming from his father ("I tried to make him into a man, but he wasn't interested")

Was there ever a reason as to why they were tried together? I can't see why Boy B's barrister agreed to that.

It's such an absolute horror show though. My heart goes out to Ana and her parents, knowing how she suffered. My baby got extra squeezes over the last few days.

Horrific stuff.

Are you privvy to information and evidence that the jury wasn't?
If not, how can you even begin to suggest what you just wrote?

AudreyHepburn

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I get what you're saying but I'm old enough to remember the James Bulger case and now those 2 are adults and Venebles had a partner before he was sent back to prison who had no idea about his past.

Fair enough to grant them anonymity now but once they turn 18 and are adults they should be named so future partners would be aware of their past.

I remember it too and again I do agree they should be named and shamed but it needs to be done properly - a press conference by the Gardai at which their identities are revealed for instance.

Do gooders sharing random names and photos on social media is dangerous and irresponsible.

tuxy

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Thank everyone of ye who is naming these boys online and posting pics.

The country needs to know and be protected from these animals.

Rip ana, gone too soon from a world too cruel.

Lets be honest, the people that are spreading this info (which may be false) are doing so because of revenge fantasies, I don't see how this is healthy.

lbc2019

Am I in the minority thinking its correct A & B are NOT named???

AudreyHepburn

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Thank everyone of ye who is naming these boys online and posting pics.

The country needs to know and be protected from these animals.

Rip ana, gone too soon from a world too cruel.

How do you know the names and faces in the photos are in fact A and B?