Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

SirGerryAdams

There's about a 15 minute difference from when Boy A was spotted on CCTV returning home to Boy B being spotted on CCTV returning home.

Does anyone with local knowledge know if this looks like Boy B didn't stay the whole duration that Boy A did?

joe40

inthehat wrote: »

Driving through town last night I saw scores of young people dolled up obviously heading out to celebrate end of exams. Mini skirts, make -up. fake tan etc (no prob with that, I did it all myself to some extent in my day ).

But all the girls looked like clones of each other. Same long poker straight hair, same daft eye-brows, same fake colour from top to toe. I just thought how hard it must be for a girl to be even remotely different. It's like a rite of passage - "we must all conform ".

The guys all looked like themselves, just well spruced-up.

You are seeing the girls who went out and are into that. Nothing inherently wrong but there are plenty of girls not into that scene at 15.
My Daughter finished her junior cert this week. She is not a loner has friends and does activities but zero interest in the teenage disco scene.

But I agree there is pressure on girls to conform to a certain look on nights out. For vulnerable girls with low self esteem this could be very challenging.

SirGerryAdams

Nerdlingr wrote: »

F*ckin hell. :eek:
That does not look good, knowing what we know now.
But I wonder when Boy A actually came clean to the parents. That night, next day ???
If your son come in all bloody and say he's been beaten up by two strangers, the first thing you would probably do is get him out of the clothes. I dont know if you would be thinking "i better keep these as is, just in case we need DNA " etc.

Her actions of washing the clothes looks like she was implicit in a cover-up, but it could be innocent enough.

Boy A never came clean. To this day he says he was beaten up by two guys. Little scum.

Neyite

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

There's about a 15 minute difference from when Boy A was spotted on CCTV returning home to Boy B being spotted on CCTV returning home.

Does anyone with local knowledge know if this looks like Boy B didn't stay the whole duration that Boy A did?

Wasn't it different CCTV's though? One was the BMX track and there was another one. So you'd probably have to factor in the walking distance from the crime scene to where each was seen on the CCTV. It may be a shorter or longer time frame.



I'm personally thinking that B was there until the very end. The disclosure to the psychologist would make me think that.

dickangel

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Because without seeing the correct child’s face it would be easy for people to assume it’s the innocent boy that’s being referred.

A little logical thinking please. Trial and sentence by social media should never be acceptable.

Maybe you should read the rest of the conversation.

TheAsYLuMkeY

Greyfox wrote: »

I have played the game myself. I don't see how it could be considered damaging, the violence was very fake and nothing like real life violence. There's been billions of games released over the last few decades and theres never been a proven link between real violence and a game. linking the 2 is nonsense particularly when theres a lot worse things out there that can actually influence kids

I take your point seeing as I said play the game and then comment, but may I offer one further comment on it.

In isolation it would not be a cause, as part of a whole series of negative influences I think it contributes when the person is so young.

What age were you when you played it?

I was late 20’s early 30’s, at the time I played, I would probably of held the same opinion as you, but for a period of time now (years) I have not partook in games of that nature, horror movies etc and I find now if I do look at horror for example that at the time years ago I would have found tame, it puts me on edge.

You can become desensitised to the games and movies and not see the extremity of them if you are always playing and looking etc, you kind of accept it as normal and tame.

Take a long break from it and return to it and you see it entirely differently.

Nerdlingr

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Boy A never came clean. To this day he says he was beaten up by two guys. Little scum.

Not to the public, but i wonder did he tell the folks.

dickangel

gozunda wrote: »

Exactly and that's the tie. He used the defence that he wasnt there and that has failed.

It is clear that both he and Boy B were there from the evidence and Boy B's own testimony.

You said



Why did Boy A not implicate Boy B?
Boy A's defence that he wasnt there was never going to stand up in court in light of the forensics

Ok we'll try again but slowly this time. Boy A could have made any number of remarks to implicate or shift blame to Boy B without admitting he was there such as "Boy B used to always talk about killing her" or "Boy B was obsessed with her." He could have even said he had an active plan to do it. Boy B was happy to do that to Boy A but for whatever reason Boy A didn't retaliate despite being read the transcripts.

SirChenjin

Boy B's family 'forced into hiding' according to the news. Hmm.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0620/1056478-kriegel-case-court/

fryup

Greyfox wrote: »

I have played the game myself. I don't see how it could be considered damaging, the violence was very fake and nothing like real life violence. There's been billions of games released over the last few decades and theres never been a proven link between real violence and a game. linking the 2 is nonsense particularly when theres a lot worse things out there that can actually influence kids

it desensitises kids to violence.....there's definitely a lot more aggression/bad behaviour out there than a generation ago

ohnonotgmail

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

I take your point seeing as I said play the game and then comment, but may I offer one further comment on it.

In isolation it would not be a cause, as part of a whole series of negative influences I think it contributes when the person is so young.

What age were you when you played it?

I was late 20’s early 30’s, at the time I played, I would probably of held the same opinion as you, but for a period of time now (years) I have not partook in games of that nature, horror movies etc and I find now if I do look at horror for example that at the time years ago I would have found tame, it puts me on edge.

You can become desensitised to the games and movies and not see the extremity of them if you are always playing and looking etc, you kind of accept it as normal and tame.

Take a long break from it and return to it and you see it entirely differently.

people have been bashing each others heads in since the dawn of time. the problem is people. some people are just evil little ****s.

SirGerryAdams

Regarding Boy B and people saying he mightn't have known.

I'll give an example of when I was around that age. Me and my cousin went cycling and I gave him a bike with faulty brakes. We went down a hill and he fell off the bike, hit his head and had a massive cut and needed stitches.

I was ****ting it and was worried sick all evening for doing such a bad thing.

Boy B went home after at least knowing Ana came to harm and acted like normal.

I'd have loved to have heard from Boy B's parents as to whether they noticed he was acting strange or off that day when he came back. If not, they were either lying or else Boy B was acting normal in which case he knew full well what the plan was.

And if I was Boy B's parents, I'd be asking serious questions (while Ana was still a missing person) to him about what happened as he was the last person to see Ana.

Debub

Twitter and Facebook (for WhatsApp) called to be in the Criminal Court today for circulating the identities of the 'Boys' on social media

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/kri%C3%A9gel-case-facebook-and-twitter-summoned-to-court-over-photos-1.3931319

tayto lover

Neyite wrote: »

Wasn't it different CCTV's though? One was the BMX track and there was another one. So you'd probably have to factor in the walking distance from the crime scene to where each was seen on the CCTV. It may be a shorter or longer time frame.



I'm personally thinking that B was there until the very end. The disclosure to the psychologist would make me think that.

Plus he was able to point out to detectives the room Ana’s body was found in.
It was a different room to where he handed over Ana to Boy A and where the assault began.
He hung around for sure enjoying his plan hatching out.

SirGerryAdams

Neyite wrote: »

Wasn't it different CCTV's though? One was the BMX track and there was another one. So you'd probably have to factor in the walking distance from the crime scene to where each was seen on the CCTV. It may be a shorter or longer time frame.



I'm personally thinking that B was there until the very end. The disclosure to the psychologist would make me think that.

Yes it was different CCTV. That's why I was wondering if anyone local who knows the location of the two CCTV cameras could specify the time needed to walk from the house to both locations.

pjohnson

SirChenjin wrote: »

Boy B's family 'forced into hiding' according to the news. Hmm.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0620/1056478-kriegel-case-court/

Awwww. If only they'd spent time trying to rear the little killer they mightn't be in that situation.

GreeBo

thecretinhop wrote: »

before long de likes of u would have me in de gulags if you had your way

I'd have you in a school if I could.

CityRoad

Basically, the child I know was leaving for school at the last minute, coming home for lunch whenever they could and leaving school as soon as the day ended. They also avoided school as much as they could.

Other kids would not speak to them.

This changed after the arrests.

I am not sure expecting a bunch of 12-13 year olds to predict how this was going to play out was useful and show more wisdom than adults is useful, considering how useless the adults were (the principal and counsellor).

SirChenjin

SirChenjin wrote: »

Boy B's family 'forced into hiding' according to the news. Hmm.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0620/1056478-kriegel-case-court/

no one will serve a minute of time in terms of facebook and twitter, they'll get a fine at worst and it will be paid without breaking a sweat and good luck in this particular case.
I know lads in the local coffee shop with a 50 fold watsapp group who got the real pics yesterday because the it was passed on.

There's Zero rule book to control social media, sure mainstream media have leaked the name FFS albeit by accident, it has been done. So lets see if the journo who made the mistake gets a 10K fine and 3 years in prison!! :rolleyes:

wont happen, sure the lad who revealed the victims name in that NI rape trial got a 300 pound fine and slap on the wrist.

SirChenjin

pjohnson wrote: »

Awwww. If only they'd spent time trying to rear the little killer they mightn't be in that situation.

I can't help wondering if it's a ploy to gain sympathy before the sentencing date.

Force Carrier

tayto lover wrote: »

He hung around

At the absolute minimum.

We may never know the degree he participated. Or maybe at some point in the future one or both of them will disclose exactly what happened.

Nerdlingr

dickangel wrote: »

Ok we'll try again but slowly this time. Boy A could have made any number of remarks to implicate Boy B without admitting he was there such as "Boy B used to always talk about killing her" or "Boy B was obsessed with her." Boy B was happy to do that to Boy A but for whatever reason Boy A didn't retaliate despite being read the transcripts.

Boy B also remarked to another friend that he thought Boy A was trying to 'snake' him.
The bloody boots and murder kit shut Boy A up and got Boy B's talking.
Boy A went into shut down mode - no comment to practically every question.
Whereas Boy B knew the noose was tightening and tried to weasel his way out.

The thing is if Boy B had no commented everything too, he'd have probably got off. People gave out about his defence lawyer, but, if he was doing his job properly and had his best interests of his clients at heart, he would have directed the kid to shut up too.

Thankfully he didn't.

pjohnson

SirChenjin wrote: »

I can't help wondering if it's a ploy to gain sympathy before the sentencing date.

Definitely. Sure they'd didnt go into hiding after the killers were first arrested.

thebaz

SirChenjin wrote: »

Boy B's family 'forced into hiding' according to the news. Hmm.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0620/1056478-kriegel-case-court/

my biggest concern is that ther legal teams are not looking for legal loopholes to squash the convictions for this heinous crime , on legal technicalties. If they do shame on them.

joe40

JuneMoon7 wrote: »

Absolutely. That is a terrible story, poor girl. And as for teachers..a child should never have to pluck up the courage to tell a teacher they are being bullied. In most cases they wont have the nerve to do it. teachers should have the emotional intelligence and basic common sense to pick up on it. They should be approaching the child, not the other way around. That said, i would like to think that if/when children do reach out to a parent or teacher, that SOMETHING is being done. It is every bit as much the teachers responsibility as anyone's to put an end to a child's suffering.

With all due respect it is not that easy. I work in a large secondary school and dealing with bullying issues is very difficult.
More often than not what pupils and parents call bullying is pupils having rows with each other that escalate.

It is heartbreaking to watch the children that are alone and don't seem to have many friends. But as a teacher there are limits to what you can do.
I would talk to classes about including the child that seems alone and a lot of teenagers would do that.
The same message would be conveyed at assemblies.
I bet every adult can remember the boy or girl in class that wasn't particularly popular. How did you act as a teenager? did you make a big effort to include that person with your friends? maybe you did which is great but you would have needed to be a strong personality in your group of friends

Most schools have all sorts of programmes to promote inclusion and prevent bullying. There are talks given regularly about the harmful affects of cyber bullying and internet safety. Modern schools are not like the 70s and 80s (Like I remember)

When there are clear cut cases of bullying, and violence the schools implement the full sanctions available, detentions, suspensions etc. Expulsion is virtually impossible.

This case is heartbreaking and if there are further lessons to be learned that should be implemented. It is however a bit simplistic to think schools do nothing in this regard, it is also simplistic to think schools can eradicate this type of behaviour. Schools are basically microcosms of society.

But as I said lessons can always be learned and improvements made.

SirGerryAdams

I hadn't seen the bit about the psychologist!

During legal argument in the absence of the jury it also emerged that Boy B gave the psychologist further details of what he saw happening to Ana, including seeing her top and pants being "ripped off", hearing gasping sounds, Ana struggling before "everything stopped" and Ana said nothing.

Boy B told the doctor he didn't know if Ana was dead when he saw Boy A stand up with his pants open at the crotch.

What's the bit about the crotch? Just meaning he had his zip open?

So it sounds like Boy A attacked her, then he put tape on her neck? I wonder was she still fighting back at this stage? Or was she weak and he then sexually assaulted her?

Or else he attacked her, she was weak and put tape around her neck which she tried to remove and he pulled her by the tape to a different position in the room where there was more light, so he could assault her.

Force Carrier

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Boy B also remarked to another friend that he thought Boy A was trying to 'snake' him.
The bloody boots and murder kit shut Boy A up and got Boy B's talking.
Boy A went into shut down mode - no comment to practically every question.
Whereas Boy B knew the noose was tightening and tried to weasel his way out.

The thing is if Boy B had no commented everything too, he'd have probably got off. People gave out about his defence lawyer, but, if he was doing his job properly and had his best interests of his clients at heart, he would have directed the kid to shut up.

Thankfully he didn't.

I would have no doubt the solicitor did tell him to keep his mouth shut. The kid and his parents obviously went against this advice. Solicitors will always tell you to say nothing. Even if you're innocent and have answers they view that those answers can be given in Court if necessary and there is no advantage or need to give them in a police interrogation. Where you may make a mistake or incriminate yourself.

TheAsYLuMkeY

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

people have been bashing each others heads in since the dawn of time. the problem is people. some people are just evil little ****s.

However, in todays world some countries have higher rates of different types of crimes than others, which would lead one to assume there are influential factors at play that are greater than simply,

'people have been bashing each others heads in since the dawn of time'

fryup

Boy B's family 'forced into hiding' according to the news. Hmm.

thebaz wrote: »

my biggest concern is that ther legal teams are not looking for legal loopholes to squash the convictions for this heinous crime , on legal technicalties. If they do shame on them.

compo?

tayto lover

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Boy B also remarked to another friend that he thought Boy A was trying to 'snake' him.
The bloody boots and murder kit shut Boy A up and got Boy B's talking.
Boy A went into shut down mode - no comment to practically every question.
Whereas Boy B knew the noose was tightening and tried to weasel his way out.

The thing is if Boy B had no commented everything too, he'd have probably got off. People gave out about his defence lawyer, but, if he was doing his job properly and had his best interests of his clients at heart, he would have directed the kid to shut up.

Thankfully he didn't.

Circumstantial evidence would have hung him imo.
Caught Graham Dwyer and Joe O’Reilly nicely.