Greystones school - gender neutral uniforms to be introduced.

B0jangles

OMM 0000 wrote: »

That's not a fair comparison.

No one here is saying adult men cannot wear dresses.

In fact, people have been saying the opposite - when you're an adult, go do whatever you want.

The issue here is these are children being told gender doesn't exist or is a construct. And what makes it doubly worse is it's a tax funded school pushing this agenda.

Really? I thought the school was just making it possible for the kids to choose whether to wear trousers or a skirt. Are they required to make a declaration about their gender identity as well?

Did you know that up until the late 19th/early 20th century little boys generally wore dresses, sometimes right up til the age of 8?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)

You really should ask youselves why the idea of boys wearing skirts is so disturbing. Society coped with the change from all children wearing dresses, to trousers for boys, skirts for girls, to trousers for boys and girls and skirts for girls only.

I think it can probably cope with trousers and skirts for boys and girls just as easily.

OMM 0000

B0jangles wrote: »

Really? I thought the school was just making it possible for the kids to choose whether to wear trousers or a skirt. Are they required to make a declaration about their gender identity as well?

Did you know that up until the late 19th/early 20th century little boys generally wore dresses, sometimes right up til the age of 8?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)

You really should ask youselves why the idea of boys wearing skirts is so disturbing. Society coped with the change from all children wearing dresses, to trousers for boys, skirts for girls, to trousers for boys and girls and skirts for girls only.

I think it can probably cope with trousers and skirts for boys and girls just as easily.

They're also removing boys and girls toilets so everything will be gender neutral.

This isn't a fashion thing.

B0jangles

OMM 0000 wrote: »

They're also removing boys and girls toilets so everything will be gender neutral.

This isn't a fashion thing.

My own primary school had unisex toilets too, and that's more than a few years ago yet we all managed to survive somehow.

OMM 0000

B0jangles wrote: »

My own primary school had unisex toilets too, and that's more than a few years ago and we all managed to survive somehow.

Was it a large public school which removed boys and girls toilets as part of a gender neutral policy?

B0jangles

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Was it a large public school which removed boys and girls toilets as part of a gender neutral policy?

Nah, they were just toilets. Do gender-neutral policy toilets work differently?

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Can you admit the kids are going to get bullied? (Forget for a moment who's to blame for the bullying.)

I feel like some people are bending over backwards to pretend the kids will be grand.

I mean nobody can say for certain that anything will or won't happen, but I would say based on the bile and disgust being spouted here, then unfortunately there are going to be kids of intolerant parents who will perpetuate the idea that "Timmy is a freak cos he's in a dress" and take that out on poor Timmy.

Nobody is saying the kids will be grand, they're saying that stopping kids being themselves out of the fear of bullying is stupid, kids are who they are and should be allowed to be who they are and schools and parents should come down like a ton of bricks on bullies. There should be a zero tolerance approach taken. It should be make clear to all parents that school is an inclusive and tolerant place and any form of discrimination on the basis of any of the 9 grounds will not be tolerated and if you're not happy to agree to that you may take your child and register them for school somewhere else.

OMM 0000

B0jangles wrote: »

Nah, they were just toilets. Do gender-neutral policy toilets work differently?

So your school had boys and girls toilets, removed them, and told the kids their gender is irrelevant so they should all use the same toilet?

Somehow I think that's quite a bit different from the little school in the middle of nowhere you went to.

MrFresh

B0jangles wrote: »

Nah, they were just toilets. Do gender-neutral policy toilets work differently?

A lot of right wing folk seem to think gender neutral toilets mean you have to expose yourself to other people using the restroom.

OMM 0000

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

It should be make clear to all parents that school is an inclusive and tolerant place and any form of discrimination on the basis of any of the 9 grounds will not be tolerated and if you're not happy to agree to that you may take your child and register them for school somewhere else.

Schools already do this.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

B0jangles wrote: »

Nah, they were just toilets. Do gender-neutral policy toilets work differently?

Unisex toilets or changing rooms do have a higher possibility of abuse, although I wouldn’t say that’s a big issue in primary schools.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

B0jangles

OMM 0000 wrote: »

So your school had boys and girls toilets, removed them, and told the kids their gender is irrelevant so they should all use the same toilet?

Somehow I think that's quite a bit different from the little school in the middle of nowhere you went to.

I have a feeling that no matter what the situation with regard to the toilets in my primary school was, it'll never be acceptable to you as comparable to the Shocking Goings On in the school in Greystones.


Next they'll be telling those poor kids that there's only one toilet and they all have to go at the same time.


https://twitter.com/QuotesSimpson/status/703097461942808578

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote: »

So your school had boys and girls toilets, removed them, and told the kids their gender is irrelevant so they should all use the same toilet?

Somehow I think that's quite a bit different from the little school in the middle of nowhere you went to.

do you know that they're going to tell the kids that their gender is irrelevant? or is it just the case that one day the kids will be told to line up to go to the toilets and the teacher will take them down to the toilets and all the kids will go in pick a cubicle do their business get back in the line and go back to their classroom? This is how we did toilet time when I was in school, maybe it's different now but there were boys and girls in my class for junior and snr infants and only one set of boys toilets on the other side of the school, so most teachers just took all of their class to the one set of toilets and we all went in

OMM 0000

I've already said I'm fine with someone opening The Gender Neutral School and people pay to send their kids there.

I don't think tax payer funded schools should implement gender neutral ideology, especially when most people don't agree with this ideology.

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I've already said I'm fine with someone opening The Gender Neutral School and people pay to send their kids there.

I don't think tax payer funded schools should implement gender neutral ideology, especially when most people don't agree with this ideology.

There is no such thing as a 100% private school in this country and there won't be, constitutionally every child has the right to an education so the state pays x amount towards that, some parents opt to pay a top up by sending their kids to a private school, but the state still funds the baseline amount. To do what you're proposing we would need a referendum to remove the constitutional right to a primary education from children

Edit: maybe the parents of kids who want to discriminate and beat kids up should be forced to take their kids out of the public school system set up their own school then there'll be no bullies left in the "normal" schools - a real hunger games style solution!!

OMM 0000

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

There is no such thing as a 100% private school in this country and there won't be, constitutionally every child has the right to an education so the state pays x amount towards that, some parents opt to pay a top up by sending their kids to a private school, but the state still funds the baseline amount. To do what you're proposing we would need a referendum to remove the constitutional right to a primary education from children

I understand you need to disagree with everything I say, but can you accept the spirit of what I'm saying? Keep ideologies out of public schools. I know we already fail at this. But why make it worse?

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I understand you need to disagree with everything I say, but can you accept the spirit of what I'm saying? Keep ideologies out of public schools. I know we already fail at this. But why make it worse?

I disagree that some young lad wanting to wear a dress (for whatever reason) is an ideology. Looks like I disagreed with you again!

In many cultures men wear skirts and dresses, it’s just not commonplace here except maybe a Scottish clan kilt for wedding. However not the case of I guess guys who want to exercise their inner female then I guess likes of a kilt wouldn’t fit their bill. I remember when I was a teenager in the 70s and Gaybo was presenting the LSS, one guy (who was neither transsexual nor gay) came on wearing a skirt, to make the point that females have it all when it comes to clothing choices and basically he was challenging anyone that dared giggle as the totally macho figure and hairy legs etc of him sat across from Gay, arms defiantly folded.

The thing is, likes of Conchita Wurst of Eurovision or Rory O’Neill aka Panti Bliss can get away with the gender-bending on their theatrical Q style, as can a person with a smart sort of gender neutral appearance can all pull it off. But the person doing so needs to have a sense of style and grooming not to become to butt of even stifled laughter as big sinewy hairy legs on any gender emerging from a dainty style skirt is just going to tickle the giggle centre of anybody’s brain!

OMM 0000

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I disagree that some young lad wanting to wear a dress (for whatever reason) is an ideology. Looks like I disagreed with you again!

It would be worth your while reading up on gender neutrality movement and postgenderism. They are ideologies. Postgenderism is even part of Wikipedias ideologies series.

They aren't simply about lads wearing dresses.

Brian?

B0jangles wrote: »

Nah, they were just toilets. Do gender-neutral policy toilets work differently?

The flusher is on the left instead of the right.

VicMackey1

VicMackey1 wrote: »

I don't think that is correct! Open to correction though! Maybe someone else can test it.

I type "men can" followed by a space and get

men can have babies
men can get pregnant
men can have babies now
men can have periods
men can cook

I got mens cancers, mens canvas docksiders, and oddly enough, mens candles.

A window into my life.

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It would be worth your while reading up on gender neutrality movement and postgenderism. They are ideologies. Postgenderism is even part of Wikipedias ideologies series.

They aren't simply about lads wearing dresses.

but it is! the thread is about a school in Greystones allowing girls to wear trousers if they want and boys to wear skirts if they want, at the behest of the children themselves. They're also going to have toilets that are going to be used by boys and girls, which my primary school had in the 80's. None of this is new, none of this is the imposition of an ideology. It's actually pretty practical.

Brian?

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

but it is! the thread is about a school in Greystones allowing girls to wear trousers if they want and boys to wear skirts if they want, at the behest of the children themselves. They're also going to have toilets that are going to be used by boys and girls, which my primary school had in the 80's. None of this is new, none of this is the imposition of an ideology. It's actually pretty practical.

Ha! I just remembered that my school had gender neutral toilets as well, I finished primary school in the 1990(Give it a lash Jack).


We all turned out to be polyamorous gender fluid Pansexuals though. So maybe it was a mistake.

klaaaz

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't think tax payer funded schools should implement gender neutral ideology, especially when most people don't agree with this ideology.

Unfortunately for you, there is not a single political party in the Dail(our parliament) that agrees with you on your ideological conspiracies, your claim of "most people" agreeing with you is fantasy stuff.

Triceratops Ballet

Brian? wrote:

Ha! I just remembered that my school had gender neutral toilets as well, I finished primary school in the 1990(Give it a lash Jack).

Brian? wrote:

We all turned out to be polyamorous gender fluid Pansexuals though. So maybe it was a mistake.

And to think it was most likely a religious school too (mine was anyway)

OMM 0000

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

but it is! the thread is about a school in Greystones allowing girls to wear trousers if they want and boys to wear skirts if they want, at the behest of the children themselves. They're also going to have toilets that are going to be used by boys and girls, which my primary school had in the 80's. None of this is new, none of this is the imposition of an ideology. It's actually pretty practical.

I think you're being naive if you don't believe ideologues had a hand in this decision.

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote:

I think you're being naive if you don't believe ideologues had a hand in this decision.

What are you basing that on

OMM 0000

klaaaz wrote: »

Unfortunately for you, there is not a single political party in the Dail(our parliament) that agrees with you on your ideological conspiracies, your claim of "most people" agreeing with you is fantasy stuff.

Most people don't agree with the gender neutral or postgenderism movements. It's fantasy to think they do.

OMM 0000

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

What are you basing that on

These ideologues are taking over educational institutions and HR. There are absolutely tons of articles on this topic if you want to do a bit of googling.

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote:

Most people don't agree with the gender neutral or postgenderism movements. It's fantasy to think they do.

No most people don't think about them at all. It's a fantasy to think that they do.
If you ask 10 ppl on O'Connell Street about the postgender conspiracy you'll get 80% blank stares

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote:

These ideologues are taking over educational institutions and HR. There are absolutely tons of articles on this topic if you want to do a bit of googling.

I don't need to I work in HR I don't know what you're talking about

OMM 0000

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

No most people don't think about them at all. It's a fantasy to think that they do.
If you ask 10 ppl on O'Connell Street about the postgender conspiracy you'll get 80% blank stares

That's the wrong question.

Ask them should we make toilets unisex.

There is already lots of research on this and most women don't want it.

Are you a guy?

OMM 0000

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I don't need to I work in HR I don't know what you're talking about

I find that hard to believe.

klaaaz

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Most people don't agree with the gender neutral or postgenderism movements. It's fantasy to think they do.

You're emotionally upset over the Greystones school allowing a boy who wants to wear a skirt and a girl who wants to wear trousers. It's good that you show emotions but try to think rationally on the situation so it doesn't overwhelm you.

OMM 0000

klaaaz wrote: »

You're emotionally upset over the Greystones school allowing a boy who wants to wear a skirt and a girl who wants to wear trousers. It's good that you show emotions but try to think rationally on the situation so it doesn't overwhelm you.

This is your retort?

You get a little nasty when people prove you wrong. I've seen it a few times before.

B0jangles

klaaaz wrote: »

You're emotionally upset over the Greystones school allowing a boy who wants to wear a skirt and a girl who wants to wear trousers. It's good that you show emotions but try to think rationally on the situation so it doesn't overwhelm you.

Yeah, it really does seem that a lot of these reactions are down to some undefinable discomfort with the very idea of boys wearing skirts.
That gut reaction is then post-rationalized with fantasies about how it's actually part of a wider plan to manipulate society for unspecified (but clearly nefarious) purposes.

DEFTLEFTHAND

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I find that young kids just tend to laugh.

They call things exactly as they see them. They haven't developed social decorum and the ability to tell white lies yet.

That's the part that worries me....

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote:

Are you a guy?

Pretty irrelevant but no I'm not. Speaking anecdotally none of the women I know would give 2 sh1ts (lol) about using a unisex toilet, if anything I think unisex toilets would get rid of thd problem if not enough cubicles for the ladies. There's buckets of women out there who will rightly or wrongly nip into the men's of the q for the ladies is mental

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote:

I find that hard to believe.

Ok, I don't know what to tell you then!

Sittingpretty

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Pretty irrelevant but no I'm not. Speaking anecdotally none of the women I know would give 2 sh1ts (lol) about using a unisex toilet, if anything I think unisex toilets would get rid of thd problem if not enough cubicles for the ladies. There's buckets of women out there who will rightly or wrongly nip into the men's of the q for the ladies is mental

I don’t ever want to suffer the horror of unisex toilets. I don’t necessarily have an issue with them being provided in addition to rather than in place of the old classic fir/mná toilets.

Only time I’ve ever used a men’s toilet is in my twenties at a night club when there’s a queue at the ladies and I’ve needed to go and there’s no option.

I think you’ll find there’s many women who would feel the same.

branie2

There's a scene like that in The Full Monty

OMM 0000

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Pretty irrelevant but no I'm not. Speaking anecdotally none of the women I know would give 2 sh1ts (lol) about using a unisex toilet, if anything I think unisex toilets would get rid of thd problem if not enough cubicles for the ladies. There's buckets of women out there who will rightly or wrongly nip into the men's of the q for the ladies is mental

I agree it probably would help with the queues outside women's toilets.

Here's a survey:

https://today.yougov.com/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2013/09/13/unisex-toilets-british-women-most-reluctant-share-

It's from 2013, so the numbers could be better or worse now. Here's a snippet:

"in Britain, where 56% of women said they are NOT comfortable with the thought of using a unisex toilet"

I looked at another survey which specially asked women who had previously been sexually abused, and almost none were comfortable with unisex toilets.

Interestingly most men don't seem to care.

Triceratops Ballet

Sittingpretty wrote:

I don’t ever want to suffer the horror of unisex toilets. I don’t necessarily have an issue with them being provided in addition to rather than in place of the old classic fir/mná toilets.

Sittingpretty wrote:

Only time I’ve ever used a men’s toilet is in my twenties at a night club when there’s a queue at the ladies and I’ve needed to go and there’s no option.

Sittingpretty wrote:

I think you’ll find there’s many women who would feel the same.

Horses for courses as I said I'm a woman and I feel the opposite. Why not have one large unisex loo with multiple cubicles and then have 1 individual toilet. The people who don't want to unisex don't have to and the people who don't care either way can. It's a toilet like, everyone's sh1t stinks, it's max 5 mins in there.

Triceratops Ballet

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Horses for courses

arah jaysus look can we not get gender sorted before moving on like this!

MrFresh

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I agree it probably would help with the queues outside women's toilets.

Here's a survey:

https://today.yougov.com/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2013/09/13/unisex-toilets-british-women-most-reluctant-share-

It's from 2013, so the numbers could be better or worse now. Here's a snippet:

"in Britain, where 56% of women said they are NOT comfortable with the thought of using a unisex toilet"

I looked at another survey which specially asked women who had previously been sexually abused, and almost none were comfortable with unisex toilets.

Interestingly most men don't seem to care.

So the majority of people don't mind?

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote:

"in Britain, where 56% of women said they are NOT comfortable with the thought of using a unisex toilet"

OMM 0000 wrote:

I looked at another survey which specially asked women who had previously been sexually abused, and almost none were comfortable with unisex toilets.

I'm not here to dictate what other women should be comfortable with, so that's fair enough. I will say I do think there's a big difference between a group of 6 year old girls and boys using the same toilets and a group of adults. At primary school age, it really makes no difference and as I said before probably way more practical in terms of supervision

Sittingpretty

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Horses for courses as I said I'm a woman and I feel the opposite. Why not have one large unisex loo with multiple cubicles and then have 1 individual toilet. The people who don't want to unisex don't have to and the people who don't care either way can. It's a toilet like, everyone's sh1t stinks, it's max 5 mins in there.

Why not just have it the other way around though? Provide a unisex toilet for those that require it and keep the others as they are.

As you say horses for courses but I’d imagine most people would prefer this than the suggestion that all establishments provide unisex toilets on a large scale and one for those of us that prefer the status quo.

Anyways I’ve strayed off topic, as you say, to each their own

As I said before I think the pendulum has swung way too far and I personally feel pandering to the gender agenda needs to stop but that’s a whole other thread

OMM 0000

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I'm not here to dictate what other women should be comfortable with, so that's fair enough. I will say I do think there's a big difference between a group of 6 year old girls and boys using the same toilets and a group of adults. At primary school age, it really makes no difference and as I said before probably way more practical in terms of supervision

I can agree with that.

B0jangles

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I'm not here to dictate what other women should be comfortable with, so that's fair enough. I will say I do think there's a big difference between a group of 6 year old girls and boys using the same toilets and a group of adults. At primary school age, it really makes no difference and as I said before probably way more practical in terms of supervision

Yeah, you often hear people on boards talking about the damage single sex schools do to young people's ability to interact with each other.

Seems like treating little kids just as kids without constantly hammering home the message that boys and girls are totally different and must therefore wear completely different clothes and use different toilets would be a healthier, more natural way to let them be instead of rigidly segregating them the way we used to.

Triceratops Ballet

OMM 0000 wrote:

I can agree with that.

Ok so then why is there an issue with these toilets in Greystones then?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Brian? wrote: »

Ha! I just remembered that my school had gender neutral toilets as well, I finished primary school in the 1990(Give it a lash Jack).


We all turned out to be polyamorous gender fluid Pansexuals though. So maybe it was a mistake.

Really? All cubicles or urinals mixed in?