Greystones school - gender neutral uniforms to be introduced.

Sittingpretty

Brian? wrote: »

Thanks, that's a reasonable and rational answer.

I do take real issue with the bullying answer though. I'd never tell my kids not to do something in case they'd be bullied. I teach them to stand up to bullies. Whether it's tried on them their friends. I wish more parents were the same.

I think the parents who set these arbitrary boundaries are creating the situation where kids are bullied for being different. They're taught at home that being different is not ok. So they Go to school and pick on people who are different.

I’m very torn on your first point. It’s very hard to know what the right thing to do is. My son is very very timid and telling him to stand up to bullies in theory is great but in practice I know he wouldn’t.

My gut reaction was to tell him the following g week to wear the same jersey as the others just to avoid a repeat scenario but my husband was the opposite and told him to wear what he wants.

TLDR: Parenting is hard

Sittingpretty

Brian? wrote: »

Woke is a term usually applied to people who are extremely tolerant. It's now used as a pejorative to attack people who express tolerance for any number of things.

Male feminists and so on.

Thanks!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Ridiculous extreme? Children are walking ridiculous extremes.
You might have to educate me as to what “woke” means because apart from being the past participle of the verb wake I have no idea what you mean.

You'd have to take that up with briangriffin, but I believe he means the kids of parents who never taken any disciplinary action with regards to their kids. It's not really the true definition of "woke", but "woke" (aware to social injustice and constantly trying to fix them) doesn;t really make much sense.

My point is: there comes a point where kids CAN make form opinions and make decisions about their own lives. Should these kids be listened to? Should they be allowed autonomy in certain situations?

Teenagers, for example, choosing what subjects to study. Or ten-year-olds choosing what hobbies to pursue which may not be gender nominative (i.e. - girls wanting to play football, or boys doing ballet) is different from toddlers throwing tantrums.

But the point seems to be made that parents listening to their kids even here is "woke parenting".

I'm still waiting for a reply.

Triceratops Ballet

weldoninhio wrote: »

Braveheart? So we are using the 13th century as an example of what to do nowadays?? Should we be hanging, drawing and quartering criminals too?? Bring back a life expectancy of 25??

What else from the 13th century should we bring back??

Ok then don't take your kid out of the house when Scotland are playing Ireland, or cover their eyes any time you see an Arab man on the street. You don't have to go to the 13th century to see men in dresses.

"daddy why can girls wear trousers and dresses but boys can only wear trousers"

"well son girls can do what they want, but boys have to exist within these narrow margins that someone arbitrarily made up years and years ago. Wandering outside of these margins is wrong and means you're not a man"

Exaggeration yes of course, but that is the crux of it!

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Worrying about skirts is the least problematic part of the ideological trans movement. Men have worn skirts and robes and kilts and sarongs for centuries. Trousers be new.

weldoninhio

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Ok then don't take your kid out of the house when Scotland are playing Ireland, or cover their eyes any time you see an Arab man on the street. You don't have to go to the 13th century to see men in dresses.

"daddy why can girls wear trousers and dresses but boys can only wear trousers"

"well son girls can do what they want, but boys have to exist within these narrow margins that someone arbitrarily made up years and years ago. Wandering outside of these margins is wrong and means you're not a man"

Exaggeration yes of course, but that is the crux of it!

A kilt is a Gaelic traditional outfit. Even Scotty McScottScott doesn't wear a kilt every day.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

weldoninhio wrote: »

A kilt is a Gaelic traditional outfit. Even Scotty McScottScott doesn't wear a kilt every day.

Nor do women wear skirts every day - what's your point?

Sittingpretty

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You'd have to take that up with briangriffin, but I believe he means the kids of parents who never taken any disciplinary action with regards to their kids. It's not really the true definition of "woke", but "woke" (aware to social injustice and constantly trying to fix them) doesn;t really make much sense.

My point is: there comes a point where kids CAN make form opinions and make decisions about their own lives. Should these kids be listened to? Should they be allowed autonomy in certain situations?

Teenagers, for example, choosing what subjects to study. Or ten-year-olds choosing what hobbies to pursue which may not be gender nominative (i.e. - girls wanting to play football, or boys doing ballet) is different from toddlers throwing tantrums.

But the point seems to be made that parents listening to their kids even here is "woke parenting".

I'm still waiting for a reply.

From who? Me? Are you tapping your foot?

My point was I don’t give in to every whim but yes, of course I respect my children and their wishes even if sometimes I don’t agree with them.

The same son a few weeks ago wanted his nails painted. I did them for him and if I’m honest I was dreading him asking to keep it on for school, not because I care about what kids might say or parents might think but because I didn’t want to draw the attention of those kids that can be cruel and nasty. Most likely if he’d wanted to I’d have let him wear it and I’d have stressed all day long if he was ok. He asked for it to be taken off that evening though.

I can only speak for myself though.

weldoninhio

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Nor do women wear skirts every day - what's your point?

My mother wears skirts every day. Don't think she owns a pair of trousers. As do plenty of other women. There is literally no one that wears a kilt on a daily basis.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

weldoninhio wrote: »

My mother wears skirts every day. Don't think she owns a pair of trousers. As do plenty of other women. There is literally no one that wears a kilt on a daily basis.

This is my point: people make a the choice.

weldoninhio

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This is my point: people make a the choice.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. A skirt is a female garment.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sittingpretty wrote: »

From who? Me? Are you tapping your foot?

My point was I don’t give in to every whim but yes, of course I respect my children and their wishes even if sometimes I don’t agree with them.

The same son a few weeks ago wanted his nails painted. I did them for him and if I’m honest I was dreading him asking to keep it on for school, not because I care about what kids might say or parents might think but because I didn’t want to draw the attention of those kids that can be cruel and nasty. Most likely if he’d wanted to I’d have let him wear it and I’d have stressed all day long if he was ok. He asked for it to be taken off that evening though.

I can only speak for myself though.

Which is fair enough. It's how kids learn. But the initial poster didn't seem to think that was wise.

ohnonotgmail

weldoninhio wrote: »

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. A skirt is a female garment.

why do you care so much what kids wear?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

weldoninhio wrote: »

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. A skirt is a female garment.

I know. Doesn't contradict anything I've said.

Triceratops Ballet

weldoninhio wrote: »

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. A skirt is a female garment.

Garments don't have a gender. A skirt is a skirt it has no inherent meaning. It's a piece of fabric. Any meaning ascribed to it is your own, and it can be changed as it has been and no doubt will be again.

Boxing.Fan

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Garments don't have a gender. A skirt is a skirt it has no inherent meaning. It's a piece of fabric. Any meaning ascribed to it is your own, and it can be changed as it has been and no doubt will be again.

What the hell are you on about? Skirts are for females. You ever see the way they always have them in the womens section in clothing departments ? There is a reason for that.

Triceratops Ballet

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

What the hell are you on about? Skirts are for females. You ever see the way they always have them in the womens section in clothing departments ? There is a reason for that.

Skirts are for whoever whats to wear them. They can be wherever a shop decides to put them. I often buy hoodies from the mens department, I'm not a man, where clothes are stored is irrelevant.
Masculinity shouldn't be so fragile that a length of fabric is the determining factor.

Boxing.Fan

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Skirts are for whoever whats to wear them. They can be wherever a shop decides to put them. I often buy hoodies from the mens department, I'm not a man, where clothes are stored is irrelevant.
Masculinity shouldn't be so fragile that a length of fabric is the determining factor.

And I'm sure you have plenty of room in that hoody. Womens clothes are designed for women surely you can acknowledge that much?

Brian?

weldoninhio wrote: »

Braveheart? So we are using the 13th century as an example of what to do nowadays?? Should we be hanging, drawing and quartering criminals too?? Bring back a life expectancy of 25??

What else from the 13th century should we bring back??

You know there are plenty of 21st century Scots who wear kilts right?

Brian?

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I’m very torn on your first point. It’s very hard to know what the right thing to do is. My son is very very timid and telling him to stand up to bullies in theory is great but in practice I know he wouldn’t.

My gut reaction was to tell him the following g week to wear the same jersey as the others just to avoid a repeat scenario but my husband was the opposite and told him to wear what he wants.

TLDR: Parenting is hard

It's a minefield.

But I worry about the effects of being overprotective in case they're bullied. That's a sure way of raising a child who can't handle adversity IMO

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why do you care so much what kids wear?

this point as been asked on both sides

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

this point as been asked on both sides

I dont care. let them wear what they want. Some people seem to have an issue with kids wearing what they feel most comfortable with despite it not intruding into their lives at all. why is that?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I dont care. let them wear what they want. Some people seem to have an issue with kids wearing what they feel most comfortable with despite it not intruding into their lives at all. why is that?

Ya see this is where someone's going to come in and imply that you want to see kids going to school naked.

Within an agreed-upon dress-code (which - for the benefit of some parties really DOES need to be clarfied - won't invovle nudity) I agree. But apparently listening to kids and allow them an opinion is woke/hippie parenting, which begs the question: if not to learn how to have an express ideas, why exactly are we wasting time educating them in the first place...?

briangriffin

Brian? wrote: »

It doesn't. It's completely disingenuous to say it does.

I agree with all of the above and I still agree that allowing a boy to wear a skirt to school shouldn't be against the rules.

I've already been told my children will grow up unable to deal with adversity because I believe explaining the real world to them is the correct thing to do. Now I get this patronising post about boundaries.

I have extremely strict boundaries for my kids. They just don't extend to the choice of lower body clothing. Unless they want to wear shorts when it's snowing or jeans when it's 30 degrees. Hard, practical boundaries are fine they do way more good than harm. Boundaries about sexuality and gender expression do more harm than good in the long term.

Kids should be allowed to be kids. They should also know that some boys want to wear skirts and some men love other men. It's pretty simple to explain to a child not to judge someone based on this. In fact one of my hard boundaries is I will not tolerate them mocking someone based on race, gender or sexual preference. I have zero tolerance for any kind of bullying. I have zero tolerance for physical violence.

I know it's terribly woke of me to have such a hard line on discipline. But there it is.[/QUOTE
Can you explain how both of those work hand in hand and also how gender expression is now a necessity in modern childhood? Your right though kids should be allowed to be kids and putting a skirt on a boy and sending him in to school does seem innocent but can you not see how that might cause a child to be confused and affirming it by allowing it to happen might just make that confusion even worse? I've already posted links to articles where this has become a problem especially for younger children and children on the autistic spectrum.

Nobody has said anything about teaching kids that men cant love other men you see that's what happens when people question the wisdom of allowing gender politics/ideology into primary school immediately there assumed to be homophobic and intolerant.

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Garments don't have a gender. A skirt is a skirt it has no inherent meaning. It's a piece of fabric. Any meaning ascribed to it is your own, and it can be changed as it has been and no doubt will be again.

Lord - Item of clothing worn by a female- and our survey said "skirt" "ding ding " top answer you've won a trip to Greystones well done.

Brian?

briangriffin wrote: »

Brian? wrote: »

It doesn't. It's completely disingenuous to say it does.

I agree with all of the above and I still agree that allowing a boy to wear a skirt to school shouldn't be against the rules.

I've already been told my children will grow up unable to deal with adversity because I believe explaining the real world to them is the correct thing to do. Now I get this patronising post about boundaries.

I have extremely strict boundaries for my kids. They just don't extend to the choice of lower body clothing. Unless they want to wear shorts when it's snowing or jeans when it's 30 degrees. Hard, practical boundaries are fine they do way more good than harm. Boundaries about sexuality and gender expression do more harm than good in the long term.

Kids should be allowed to be kids. They should also know that some boys want to wear skirts and some men love other men. It's pretty simple to explain to a child not to judge someone based on this. In fact one of my hard boundaries is I will not tolerate them mocking someone based on race, gender or sexual preference. I have zero tolerance for any kind of bullying. I have zero tolerance for physical violence.

I know it's terribly woke of me to have such a hard line on discipline. But there it is.[/QUOTE
Can you explain how both of those work hand in hand and also how gender expression is now a necessity in modern childhood? Your right though kids should be allowed to be kids and putting a skirt on a boy and sending him in to school does seem innocent but can you not see how that might cause a child to be confused and affirming it by allowing it to happen might just make that confusion even worse? I've already posted links to articles where this has become a problem especially for younger children and children on the autistic spectrum.

Nobody has said anything about teaching kids that men cant love other men you see that's what happens when people question the wisdom of allowing gender politics/ideology into primary school immediately there assumed to be homophobic and intolerant.



Lord - Item of clothing worn by a female- and our survey said "skirt" "ding ding " top answer you've won a trip to Greystones well done.

Can you re format this so I can read it?

briangriffin

Brian? wrote: »

It doesn't. It's completely disingenuous to say it does.

I agree with all of the above and I still agree that allowing a boy to wear a skirt to school shouldn't be against the rules.

I've already been told my children will grow up unable to deal with adversity because I believe explaining the real world to them is the correct thing to do. Now I get this patronising post about boundaries.

I have extremely strict boundaries for my kids. They just don't extend to the choice of lower body clothing. Unless they want to wear shorts when it's snowing or jeans when it's 30 degrees. Hard, practical boundaries are fine they do way more good than harm. Boundaries about sexuality and gender expression do more harm than good in the long term.

Kids should be allowed to be kids. They should also know that some boys want to wear skirts and some men love other men. It's pretty simple to explain to a child not to judge someone based on this. In fact one of my hard boundaries is I will not tolerate them mocking someone based on race, gender or sexual preference. I have zero tolerance for any kind of bullying. I have zero tolerance for physical violence.

I know it's terribly woke of me to have such a hard line on discipline. But there it is.

Can you explain how both of those work hand in hand and also how gender expression is now a necessity in modern childhood? Your right though kids should be allowed to be kids and putting a skirt on a boy and sending him in to school does seem innocent but can you not see how that might cause a child to be confused and affirming it by allowing it to happen might just make that confusion even worse? I've already posted links to articles where this has become a problem especially for younger children and children on the autistic spectrum.

Nobody has said anything about teaching kids that men cant love other men you see that's what happens when people question the wisdom of allowing gender politics/ideology into primary school immediately there assumed to be homophobic and intolerant.

Lord - Item of clothing worn by a female- and our survey said "skirt" "ding ding " top answer you've won a trip to Greystones well done.

policarp

Romans wore togas.

blade1

policarp wrote: »

Romans wore togas.

Why did they stop?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

briangriffin (I think) wrote:

It doesn't. It's completely disingenuous to say it does.

I agree with all of the above and I still agree that allowing a boy to wear a skirt to school shouldn't be against the rules.

I've already been told my children will grow up unable to deal with adversity because I believe explaining the real world to them is the correct thing to do. Now I get this patronising post about boundaries.

I have extremely strict boundaries for my kids. They just don't extend to the choice of lower body clothing. Unless they want to wear shorts when it's snowing or jeans when it's 30 degrees. Hard, practical boundaries are fine they do way more good than harm. Boundaries about sexuality and gender expression do more harm than good in the long term.

Kids should be allowed to be kids. They should also know that some boys want to wear skirts and some men love other men. It's pretty simple to explain to a child not to judge someone based on this. In fact one of my hard boundaries is I will not tolerate them mocking someone based on race, gender or sexual preference. I have zero tolerance for any kind of bullying. I have zero tolerance for physical violence.

I know it's terribly woke of me to have such a hard line on discipline. But there it is.[/QUOTE
Can you explain how both of those work hand in hand and also how gender expression is now a necessity in modern childhood? Your right though kids should be allowed to be kids and putting a skirt on a boy and sending him in to school does seem innocent but can you not see how that might cause a child to be confused and affirming it by allowing it to happen might just make that confusion even worse? I've already posted links to articles where this has become a problem especially for younger children and children on the autistic spectrum.

Nobody has said anything about teaching kids that men cant love other men you see that's what happens when people question the wisdom of allowing gender politics/ideology into primary school immediately there assumed to be homophobic and intolerant.



Lord - Item of clothing worn by a female- and our survey said "skirt" "ding ding " top answer you've won a trip to Greystones well done.

Not really sure what parts of this are you and what parts of someone else, but you are going to have to tell me exactly what you mean by the phrase "woke parenting" - I thought I knew and it was just you mis-using the term "woke", but apparently it's not even that.

You'll also have to tell me how this fits in with your idea that only "woke parents" listen to their kids, or did I pick you up on that wrong as well?

Regarding sexuality, people need to be more flexible for the simple reason that kids are far more aware of their sexuality at an earlier age than people think they are; and fighting it is just going to add more strife. You don't want a 7-8 year old experiencing with and struggling a concept that their parent is telling them flat-out doesn't exist, effectively calling their own kids liars.

Should this mean allowing boys to wear skirts at school? Again - this comes down to what the agreed-upon dress-code is between school, parents and students. Outside of school? Let the boy state his case, then decide. But at least hear him out first.

Brian?

briangriffin wrote: »

Can you explain how both of those work hand in hand and also how gender expression is now a necessity in modern childhood? Your right though kids should be allowed to be kids and putting a skirt on a boy and sending him in to school does seem innocent but can you not see how that might cause a child to be confused and affirming it by allowing it to happen might just make that confusion even worse? I've already posted links to articles where this has become a problem especially for younger children and children on the autistic spectrum.

I’m not sure what your question is to be honest.

But I’ll answer some of this. Gender expression has always been important, it’s just now that we’re acknowledging it’s importance.

I don’t agree that allowing a child to wear a skirt will cause confusion. It will actually do the opposite.

Nobody has said anything about teaching kids that men cant love other men you see that's what happens when people question the wisdom of allowing gender politics/ideology into primary school immediately there assumed to be homophobic and intolerant.

I said it, I also listed other things I’m teaching kids to be tolerant of.

If you’re upset that boys are allowed wear skirts in a school, you are intolerant.

Lord - Item of clothing worn by a female- and our survey said "skirt" "ding ding " top answer you've won a trip to Greystones well done.

Is this supposed to be a joke?

dodderangler

Brian? wrote: »

They should respect all elders? Always?

That's an absolutely shocking thing to teach children. Children should politely question everything. Politely being the key. Perceived wisdom is the enemy of progress.

I was raised that way and it's served my siblings and I extremely well.

And from your response I can tell exactly what you are like as a person.
Spoilt. Always got your way. Sorry but you are completely wrong.
You always respect your elders. Even to this day as a 30 year old man I respect everyone older than me. If you think that’s shocking to teach a child then I guess you aren’t there yet!!
Do you wait for an elderly person to respect you first?
In pretty much all nations and tribes of people respect the elders is a must!!!

dodderangler

blade1 wrote: »

Why did they stop?

Dust gathered in places!!!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

dodderangler wrote: »

And from your response I can tell exactly what you are like as a person.
Spoilt. Always got your way. Sorry but you are completely wrong.
You always respect your elders. Even to this day as a 30 year old man I respect everyone older than me. If you think that’s shocking to teach a child then I guess you aren’t there yet!!
Do you wait for an elderly person to respect you first?
In pretty much all nations and tribes of people respect the elders is a must!!!

You can politely question someone whilst still respecting them. I do it all the time to people both younger and older than myself. It;s how you get information and understand the other person.

Also respect is not something you can automatically give to someone - especially if said person is a complete knob-end - just because they are older.

The other problem with automatic respect of one's elders is that it opens the door to abuse.

briangriffin

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not really sure what parts of this are you and what parts of someone else, but you are going to have to tell me exactly what you mean by the phrase "woke parenting" - I thought I knew and it was just you mis-using the term "woke", but apparently it's not even that.

You'll also have to tell me how this fits in with your idea that only "woke parents" listen to their kids, or did I pick you up on that wrong as well?

Regarding sexuality, people need to be more flexible for the simple reason that kids are far more aware of their sexuality at an earlier age than people think they are; and fighting it is just going to add more strife. You don't want a 7-8 year old experiencing with and struggling a concept that their parent is telling them flat-out doesn't exist, effectively calling their own kids liars.

Should this mean allowing boys to wear skirts at school? Again - this comes down to what the agreed-upon dress-code is between school, parents and students. Outside of school? Let the boy state his case, then decide. But at least hear him out first.

I've edited what I said further down. We don't teach children about sex at a young age because children are very immature at 7-8 that's first class- 2nd class I'm not sure I've come across many children at that age who would be questioning their sexuality.

I've said it already this is a social experiment being performed on young children, you can say its only a skirt but the gender movement in America has moved from uniforms to socially transitioning kids as young as 5 or 6 i.e. using transgender pronouns to refer to the children and calling them by their trans name, you can say that wont happen here but that is the movement that's where this is headed. Its not scaremongering. I think at primary school this is just not right for the reasons I've given. Adults can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned.

briangriffin

Brian? wrote: »

I’m not sure what your question is to be honest.

But I’ll answer some of this. Gender expression has always been important, it’s just now that we’re acknowledging it’s importance.

I don’t agree that allowing a child to wear a skirt will cause confusion. It will actually do the opposite.



I said it, I also listed other things I’m teaching kids to be tolerant of.

If you’re upset that boys are allowed wear skirts in a school, you are intolerant.



Is this supposed to be a joke?

What makes you so sure that it will do the opposite?


I'm intolerant of skirts? boys? girls? or what exactly?

Thats a family fortunes reference yes I made a funny.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

briangriffin wrote: »

I've edited what I said further down. We don't teach children about sex at a young age because children are very immature at 7-8 that's first class- 2nd class I'm not sure I've come across many children at that age who would be questioning their sexuality.

Sex and sexuality are not the same thing. Kids can have a sense of sexuality pretty much as soon as they have a sense of self, and they know the differences between boys and girls from a lot younger than seven or eight. You also get tomboys and effeminate boys acting from that age and younger.

I've said it already this is a social experiment being performed on young children, you can say its only a skirt but the gender movement in America has moved from uniforms to socially transitioning kids as young as 5 or 6 i.e. using transgender pronouns to refer to the children and calling them by their trans name, you can say that wont happen here but that is the movement that's where this is headed. Its not scaremongering. I think at primary school this is just not right for the reasons I've given. Adults can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned.

Transgender is a completely different topic. A boy wanting to wear a skirt is not automatically transgender, so you can take debate this with whoever brought up the topic.

briangriffin

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Sex and sexuality are not the same thing. Kids can have a sense of sexuality pretty much as soon as they have a sense of self, and they know the differences between boys and girls from a lot younger than seven or eight. You also get tomboys and effeminate boys acting from that age and younger.



Transgender is a completely different topic. A boy wanting to wear a skirt is not automatically transgender, so you can take debate this with whoever brought up the topic.

Gender expression and the trans movement are totally different topics?? I'd have to respectfully disagree there.
I'm glad you acknowledge that boys and girls are different the problem is today a tomboy might end up identifying as a boy by age 13 given all the nonsense on tumblr and media publicity about gender identities.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

briangriffin wrote: »

Gender expression and the trans movement are totally different topics?? I'd have to respectfully disagree there.
I'm glad you acknowledge that boys and girls are different the problem is today a tomboy might end up identifying as a boy by age 13 given all the nonsense on tumblr and media publicity about gender identities.

Gender expression may be a part of the trans movement, but it is not THE trans movement. Not every male wearing a dress wishes to transition.

The second part of your post is a causation/correlation mistake: if a tomboy wants to transition at the age of 13, the cause is not necessarily media. Perhaps the girl in question has always identified as male and is now just at an age where people might actually listen to her rather than telling her it's all bull**** media.

But again -we're not talking about transgender. Nor is the thread topic about transgenderism. Males wearing dresses =/= transgender.

briangriffin

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Gender expression may be a part of the trans movement, but it is not THE trans movement. Not every male wearing a dress wishes to transition.

The second part of your post is a causation/correlation mistake: if a tomboy wants to transition at the age of 13, the cause is not necessarily media. Perhaps the girl in question has always identified as male and is now just at an age where people might actually listen to her rather than telling her it's all bull**** media.

But again -we're not talking about transgender. Nor is the thread topic about transgenderism. Males wearing dresses =/= transgender.

So skirts are not female garments, sex has nothing to do with sexuality and gender expression although part of the trans movement is not THE trans movement. That's pretty unbelievable stuff all right.
Honestly I don't think anything is going to change your viewpoint and your entitled to that.
My point is primary school children don't need exposure to an adult ideology.
I never said it was a direct cause the point is all of this is about exposure and ideology you tell a young child they can change their gender identity what impact will that have on children that are highly impressionable in the formative years? Anyway we are going over ground we have already covered here. I've given examples of schools where this has been an actual problem and you have no response to that other than I am scaremongering.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

briangriffin wrote: »

So skirts are not female garments, sex has nothing to do with sexuality and gender expression although part of the trans movement is not THE trans movement. That's pretty unbelievable stuff all right.
Honestly I don't think anything is going to change your viewpoint and your entitled to that.

1 - you were debating that with someone else, don;'t bring it up with me
2 - not what I said, read back
3 - correct. Disagreeing is like saying AH and boards.ie are exactly the same thing.

Those are not viewpoints, btw - those are pretty much facts (well, 2 and 3 anyway are. As I presented them, not as you chose to interpret them) - which ad homeinems and strawman arguments are not going to change, nor will NOT presenting a counter argument.

My point is primary school children don't need exposure to an adult ideology.
I never said it was a direct cause the point is all of this is about exposure and ideology you tell a young child they can change their gender identity what impact will that have on children that are highly impressionable in the formative years? Anyway we are going over ground we have already covered here. I've given examples of schools where this has been an actual problem and you have no response to that other than I am scaremongering.

Except that's not what this actually is.

Again: a boy wanting to wear a skirt is not the same as a boy wanting to transgender. Nor - as I have explained - is he doing it as part of some ideology. He may be - but you can't assume that.

(I could also argue that a lot of the school syallabus is based entirely on adult ideology - why do you think history and religion are there? - but that's a different debate)

dodderangler

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You can politely question someone whilst still respecting them. I do it all the time to people both younger and older than myself. It;s how you get information and understand the other person.

Also respect is not something you can automatically give to someone - especially if said person is a complete knob-end - just because they are older.

The other problem with automatic respect of one's elders is that it opens the door to abuse.

Wrong. You respect your elders no matter what. Then you judge them after you give them respect. Basically you give respect and see their response. Obviously if they are dicks you drop the respect but first and foremost you give resoect. They’re older and wiser and have seen a lot more than you. Don’t be a dick. Give them respect.
I hope your kids see the value of this instead of the way you talk about respect.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

dodderangler wrote: »

Wrong. You respect your elders no matter what. Then you judge them after you give them respect. Basically you give respect and see their response. Obviously if they are dicks you drop the respect but first and foremost you give resoect. They’re older and wiser and have seen a lot more than you. Don’t be a dick. Give them respect.
I hope your kids see the value of this instead of the way you talk about respect.

That's pretty much exactly what I said.

dodderangler

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's pretty much exactly what I said.

No. You said respect is not something you just give to someone . That’s it’s Not given! Meaning you automatically don’t respect elders. That basically they have to work for the respect from you.
What makes you so high and mighty to have someone especially an elder work for your respect?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

dodderangler wrote: »

No. You said respect is not something you just give to someone . That’s it’s Not given! Meaning you automatically don’t respect elders. That basically they have to work for the respect from you.
What makes you so high and mighty to have someone especially an elder work for your respect?

I'd argue that what you are talking about is manners rather than respect. You can be mannerly to someone without respecting them, that's a given. and certainly should be until given good reason not to. But respect is only granted upon learning who they are and what they do or have done.

I mean, I can pretend to respect someone but if I don't feel it, is it genuine respect?

Brian?

dodderangler wrote: »

And from your response I can tell exactly what you are like as a person.

That’s some talent you have there chief.

Spoilt.

No. Not even close

Always got your way.

Rarely.

sorry but you are completely wrong.

You don’t sound very sorry.

You always respect your elders. Even to this day as a 30 year old man I respect everyone older than me. If you think that’s shocking to teach a child then I guess you aren’t there yet!!

That’s plain stupid. Some of the people older than you are idiots. Some are horrible bigots. Some are lovely people who deserve respect. It’s ridiculous to automatically respect someone older than you.

Do you wait for an elderly person to respect you first?
In pretty much all nations and tribes of people respect the elders is a must!!!

I respect people who deserve it. Respect is earned.

Brian?

briangriffin wrote: »

What makes you so sure that it will do the opposite?


I'm intolerant of skirts? boys? girls? or what exactly?

You’re intolerant of people being different. In fairness to you, you’re not alone. It’s quite common.

Thats a family fortunes reference yes I made a funny.

Questionable.

briangriffin

Brian? wrote: »

You’re intolerant of people being different. In fairness to you, you’re not alone. It’s quite common.



Questionable.

you didn't answer why you are so sure it will do the opposite.

Your wrong I'm intolerant of people using children as pawns to further their own ideological viewpoint. Which is exactly what this is about.

briangriffin

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

1 - you were debating that with someone else, don;'t bring it up with me
2 - not what I said, read back
3 - correct. Disagreeing is like saying AH and boards.ie are exactly the same thing.

Those are not viewpoints, btw - those are pretty much facts (well, 2 and 3 anyway are. As I presented them, not as you chose to interpret them) - which ad homeinems and strawman arguments are not going to change, nor will NOT presenting a counter argument.




Except that's not what this actually is.

Again: a boy wanting to wear a skirt is not the same as a boy wanting to transgender. Nor - as I have explained - is he doing it as part of some ideology. He may be - but you can't assume that.

(I could also argue that a lot of the school syallabus is based entirely on adult ideology - why do you think history and religion are there? - but that's a different debate)

Yeah you are wrong though my viewpoints there are also facts (pretty much).
I've presented counter arguments which you have ignored because it doesn't suit your agenda.
I can see why you've an axe to grind with religion but History???

Tokyo

Mod: Moved from AH > CA

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

briangriffin wrote: »

[/B]

Yeah you are wrong though my viewpoints there are also facts (pretty much).
I've presented counter arguments which you have ignored because it doesn't suit your agenda.
I can see why you've an axe to grind with religion but History???

You're seriously telling me that "that's pretty unbelievable stuff all right. Honestly I don't think anything is going to change your viewpoint and your entitled to that." is considered a counter-arugment??

Transgender is not the same as gender expression - you can express your gender without every being a part of a trans movement. Without even being trans. Case in point - transvestism.
Sex is NOT the same as sexuality (one is a biological - the state of being male or female; the other is the relationship between the biological and the self e.g. - sex is demale, sexuality is how the female behaves, as in boysihly or girlishly.
These are all basic definitions - not my opinions of them. If you find this all unbeliveable, fine - but you're disagreeing with the dictionary, not with me.

No axes to grind - I think history is important; but it's also an adult agenda where nationalism is concerned. How do you think sets the agenda in schools, if not adults?