Introducing the Current Affairs/IMHO forum

EmmetSpiceland

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If someone can't handle unpopular opinions, they shouldn't click in. Half the posts are about random stuff like food and half are about politics or something happening.

There has to be a place on this site for unpopular opinions. It's moddle-coddling us if there isn't, and if the site wants to close that thread because it doesn't suit the sunshine and lollipops attempt in AH, it should be a separate forum with one opinion per thread.

I got into a debate yesterday about teachers being overpaid. There isn't really anywhere else on the site for that discussion to take place now.


And IMHO should be removed from CA as it doesn't work. Unpopular opinions is perfect IMHO and it stuck out like a sore thumb.

But there, most certainly, is a place for “unpopular opinions” on this site. “Current Affairs/IMHO” is that place.

Especially if it’s just a thread to dump in your own, personal, “unpopular opinion” without having to defend it, or to attack other ones.

Whether the “IMHO” element belongs with that, particular, forum is a separate issue, at present. But, right now, I would urge the moderators to leave the thread where it belongs, in the “Current Affairs/IMHO” forum. It’s in the name.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

But there, most certainly, is a place for “unpopular opinions” on this site. “Current Affairs/IMHO” is that place.

Especially if it’s just a thread to dump in your own, personal, “unpopular opinion” without having to defend it, or to attack other ones.

Whether the “IMHO” element belongs with that, particular, forum is a separate issue, at present. But, right now, I would urge the moderators to leave the thread where it belongs, in the “Current Affairs/IMHO” forum. It’s in the name.

There's plenty of debate in Current Affairs. What are you talking about?

EmmetSpiceland

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

There's plenty of debate in Current Affairs. What are you talking about?

I’m well aware of that, O. Well, there’s certainly a lot of “one-sided” debate going, of late, but, yes, in general, there is plenty of debate.

Anyway, what I meant was, that the thread, itself, is a place where you can post an opinion that you, yourself, deem to be “unpopular”.

In doing so you are just “putting it out there” and not, necessarily, looking to have to defend it or have others discuss it.

Of course, discussing, attack and defence, may well occur but, from my perspective, the thread is just for users to post an “unpopular opinion” they may hold.

Baggly

Deleted User wrote: »

Was CA just used to kill the Unpopular Opinions thread in AH?

It was moved to CA when it obviously shouldn't be there and then it was unceremoniously closed because it wasn't suitable there. It should be moved back, not closed.

To give my answer, no it wasn't moved to kill it. It was moved to keep it going. The balance of light hearted vs serious topics had tipped to the latter. If you want serious discussion like the one you were having re teachers, it doesn't belong in AH.

It was closed for review but its open now.

Boards.ie: Niamh

Omackeral, I've moved your post and a number of replies in relation to an AH thread being moved to this new thread in Help Desk. I recognise that there was a genuine query but it didn't belong in this thread

osarusan

mike_ie wrote: »

I'm not sure there is a clear cut answer because different posters want different things from the forum. A certain tier of posters want it policed like the Politics forum, in which case, why not post in the politics forum. Others want a free for all, which will result in another Thunderdome. Anything in between results in moderators being accused of having full scope for bias and capriciousness with zero accountability.

Because, to state the obvious, lots of stuff in CA is not a political issue. Bizarre to say that somebody who wants stricter moderation should just go to a forum that has stricter modetation, even when the content of that forum is often quite different. You said yourself a few days ago that the George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, and Everyday Racism threads were the most challenging to moderate, and none of them belong in the Politics forum.

The main issue with the forum remains the absurd amount of time taken to root out posters whose intent to post in bad faith and disrupt as much as possible is evident almost immediately. They rack up hundreds if not thousands of posts before they finally get kicked out, and drown the reasonable debate that other posters are trying to have.

I might be wrong, but the impression I get is that the moderators are not particularly active on the forum apart from when looking at reported posts, so they do not develop a feel for the place. So when they look at an individual reported post, it doesn't seem to be much of a problem on its own, but the regulars know that this poster has been posting the same thing for days or weeks on end. I can think of one poster who managed to rack up 1000+ posts in an individual thread, just repeating the same thing over and over again without ever engaging in any discussion, before they finally got threadbanned.

the solution that seems obvious to me as a user has been brought up before in this context

if you have to have forum-by-forum rules of conduct (debatably a bad idea in a site that doesn't necessarily present to a given user as strictly broken down by forum, imo) then you cannot also dictate where a topic "must be" discussed

"issues" do not have inherent rules or style guides governing how they can be discussed

an after hours thread on a current topic has every right to exist and exist in the after hours style

the high-minded individuals that hold their hankies to their """"noses"""" can have a thread in a more controlled forum

the only issue here that i can see is the site attitude that a topic cannot exist in both fora with a distinct character to each thread.

stop moving threads then demanding that new rules of conduct apply as a result, and what's the problem?

2ndcoming

I myself was unaware there was any special leeway or idea to coop the crazies in CA, I think having the Covid threads in there (the busiest threads on boards in years) was a mistake as it made CA seem like the most important forum.

The best thing I think would be to have a standalone IMHO forum. Just call it The Trash Can or something fitting like that. It feels like eating out of the trash can every time you open a thread in there at present anyway. You'll have less people coming in getting irate and reporting posts if it's clearly marked.

Overheal

osarusan wrote: »

Because, to state the obvious, lots of stuff in CA is not a political issue. Bizarre to say that somebody who wants stricter moderation should just go to a forum that has stricter modetation, even when the content of that forum is often quite different. You said yourself a few days ago that the George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, and Everyday Racism threads were the most challenging to moderate, and none of them belong in the Politics forum.

The main issue with the forum remains the absurd amount of time taken to root out posters whose intent to post in bad faith and disrupt as much as possible is evident almost immediately. They rack up hundreds if not thousands of posts before they finally get kicked out, and drown the reasonable debate that other posters are trying to have.

I might be wrong, but the impression I get is that the moderators are not particularly active on the forum apart from when looking at reported posts, so they do not develop a feel for the place. So when they look at an individual reported post, it doesn't seem to be much of a problem on its own, but the regulars know that this poster has been posting the same thing for days or weeks on end. I can think of one poster who managed to rack up 1000+ posts in an individual thread, just repeating the same thing over and over again without ever engaging in any discussion, before they finally got threadbanned.

Assuming for granted mods don’t have the bandwidth to read megathreads and get a feel, users can still add piles of information to a reported post. Eg. If the users thread history paints the picture explain that in the report, quote examples even, not every report may be sufficient if you just call it “trolling,” Only to be left as a mind reading exercise for the moderators, Etc. - seen some where a user posted as you said the exact same post nearly dozens of times before being threadbanned, because no one post was actionable and I guess it took a while for anyone to point the pattern out to the mods.

Beasty

osarusan wrote: »

I might be wrong, but the impression I get is that the moderators are not particularly active on the forum apart from when looking at reported posts, so they do not develop a feel for the place. So when they look at an individual reported post, it doesn't seem to be much of a problem on its own, but the regulars know that this poster has been posting the same thing for days or weeks on end. I can think of one poster who managed to rack up 1000+ posts in an individual thread, just repeating the same thing over and over again without ever engaging in any discussion, before they finally got threadbanned.

Just on this point, and speaking from a personal perspective. I reckon I spend 90%+ of my time on the site looking at threads in CA and the Coronavirus forums. Before I became an Admin I probably spent as much time on Sports forums

I tried to actively follow, and contribute to, the 2 "main" coronavirus threads because they were where most of the issues have been. One is dominated by pro-lockdown proponents and the other by posters looking to relax restrictions. I also pay particular attention to one specific thread in CA, the Gangland shootings one - not one I post in very often, but one where understanding the underlying issues is very important. Being able to step in at short notice, removing a lot of problematical posts (from a legal perspective) where the "regulars" are not inclined to report stuff, is very important in that particular thread (a very large number of posts in that thread get deleted).

As the Coronavirus forum has expanded into additional areas of discussion, and there has been an eruption of race issues following the George Floyd incident, it's not been as easy to keep on top of everything. I am sure this will all blow over and that will allow more engagement in the discussions rather than dealing with reported posts. We're not there yet, but I do think we put a lot of effort into re-focussing our attention as and when it is required. The fact we may not be posting extensively in discussions does not mean we are oblivious to some of the underlying issues/discussions

Buford T. Justice XIX

Overheal wrote: »

Assuming for granted mods don’t have the bandwidth to read megathreads and get a feel, users can still add piles of information to a reported post. Eg. If the users thread history paints the picture explain that in the report, quote examples even, not every report may be sufficient if you just call it “trolling,” Only to be left as a mind reading exercise for the moderators, Etc. - seen some where a user posted as you said the exact same post nearly dozens of times before being threadbanned, because no one post was actionable and I guess it took a while for anyone to point the pattern out to the mods.

I think this point needs to be made again. A reason for reporting a post included in the report is a massive help in understanding what is objectionable in a post. More than once I've dealt with a reported post that simply states 'This'. Mods will still look at the post and look at the thread the post is from for context but just stating 'This' in a report is not going to assist in dealing with the post.

What the poster reporting the post might find obvious, somebody not following the thread or the subject isn't always able to immediately intuit the problem.

As I've said before, reopen the Thunderdome and let them go at it in there. No bans, no moderation, no ads.

Tokyo

osarusan wrote: »

I might be wrong, but the impression I get is that the moderators are not particularly active on the forum apart from when looking at reported posts, so they do not develop a feel for the place. So when they look at an individual reported post, it doesn't seem to be much of a problem on its own, but the regulars know that this poster has been posting the same thing for days or weeks on end.

Much along the same lines as Beasty, I spend much of my time in the CA/Coronavirus forum following events back home. I'm well aware of what goes on there, and am familiar with the tone of the forum and who the contributors and shïtstirrers are. A large part of why I follow but don't post there is because if I did, we both know I'd be sitting in this same thread being accused of mod bias, shaping the conversation towards my particular leaning, etc.

Hodors Appletart

i reported this earlier but wanted to see if there was any support for doing something about the incredibly annoying and downright childish practice of mangling politicians names?

if i have to read the word "mehole" one more time i think i might scratch out my eyes for example

Hodors Appletart

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

i reported this earlier but wanted to see if there was any support for doing something about the incredibly annoying and downright childish practice of mangling politicians names?

if i have to read the word "mehole" one more time i think i might scratch out my eyes for example

What you're finding is that despite being over eighteen a lot on here that do this sort of thing have the mentality of a five year old.
I say that having no political affiliations, but believing M.Martin is one of the biggest sleeveen gombeens around.

Hodors Appletart

yeah this is from someone who placed FF last on my ballot the last time i made sure to vote all the way down so i could give them last pref

i just dislike the practice ( interestingly it is disallowed in the soccer forum for players managers etc so there is precedence )

EmmetSpiceland

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

i reported this earlier but wanted to see if there was any support for doing something about the incredibly annoying and downright childish practice of mangling politicians names?

if i have to read the word "mehole" one more time i think i might scratch out my eyes for example

Might be, somewhat, hard to “police”. For me, if I’m being perfectly honest, I don’t think the “Current Affairs” needs any additional rules.

I really do believe that any of the, regular, posters of that forum getting banned is to the “detriment” of the rest of the site. They just end up scuttling in to, more, “normal” forums and start putting down grubby roots.

I get how something like that whole “joke-naming” thing could annoy you but, I mean, this is the forum where one user had their “handle” set to that of the Taoiseach’s partner. They’ve since changed it but it’s was there for quite some time.

I, personally, found that to be in, very, poor taste. Downright creepy.

Overheal

This being locked makes no sense

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058090358/1

It was only derailed by a handful of usual types because it was another conversation influenced on race. Aside from all the threadspoiling posts in there, personal digs at the OP, there was constructive posting happening and was startled to see it suddenly locked.

We have multiple threads for the US election - one is being kept alive seemingly only to satisfy the traffic of users who were threadbanned from the first. Yet no rabble of users is shouting down that? No mods locking that down as “yet another election thread?”

The thread should be allowed to remain open with off topic posts deleted. It’s not often you can springboard a discussion of police without it being tied to a single altercation with some victim (george Floyd, Rayshard Brooks, etc). Instead the rabble took over and decided no, this was the US thread, of all the US threads that broke the camels back and frankly no that’s crap, the decision to lock this doesn’t pass the smell test.

It's particularly off when there are so many threads in the forum that are racists soapboxing that most wouldn't touch with a barge pole at this stage.

EmmetSpiceland

I really think you’re both missing the “big picture” here. Yes, there are clearly racially motivated threads going on. And, yes, these threads are packed to the gills with racists, bigots, nutjobs and xenophobes all spouting their hate-filled nonsense.

Same way there are misogynist and transphobic threads in there full of creeps, vicious oddballs, general malcontents and vile weirdos.

And the forum is the best place for them. I actually salute anyone who ventures in there and “tackles” these topics, and posters, as anyone who does is, vastly, outnumbered and rounded upon. But any time one does it gives the loons a real “impetus” to continue and keeps them occupied so they stay in their sty.

If things are changed it will be a disaster for the other, normal, forums. So, please, let’s just leave it as is and let the mods do the job they have to do in there.

EmmetSpiceland

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I really think you’re both missing the “big picture” here. Yes, there are clearly racially motivated threads going on. And, yes, these threads are packed to the gills with racists, bigots, nutjobs and xenophobes all spouting their hate-filled nonsense.

Same way there are misogynist and transphobic threads in there full of creeps, vicious oddballs, general malcontents and vile weirdos.

The posters in your first paragraph are usually the same ones in the second paragraph.

BarnardsLoop

I honestly don't understand how it hasn't got to the point where something has been done about it. It's not even a case of a few posts here or there lost amongst the ocean of new posts constantly appearing in the forum, you can open most threads on the first page and find examples.

Look, anyone can see from my post history that I don't try to hide my opinions on it. But that's only because I left the site years ago when AH was looking like it was going in the direction CA firmly occupies, now. I've reported people but I don't want to fall afoul of abuse of the reporting system because if I was to report all the examples I'd be trying to fight back the tide with my bare hands.

And that's part of the problem: often it isn't just one post, it's a body of them, built up over time that exposes a person's views and once you've seen how racists try to couch their views (as I, sadly, have during my time on Reddit), it's much easier to see them here.

To say nothing of the fact that it really isn't just racism. Homophobia, transphobia, you name it, you can find it there. Doesn't the allowance of things like that on a site that maintains an active LGBT forum kind of... sit at odds with each other? How many people are missing from discussions in the forum because it's so hostile to anyone that deviates from the very narrow norm accepted by so many regulars of it?

There's a place for robust debate and the candid sharing of opinions and I'm not arguing CA shouldn't be a place for that. But I also don't think people should be able to get away with race-baiting in the name of being overly lenient as regards free discussion.

Emmet, I get your point, really I do but to give an example from Reddit: there were communities like "coontown" and "chimpout" (itself part of a network of communities called "the chimpire") devoted to the worst, most overt kind of racism you can imagine. When they were banned... the racists didn't disperse out onto the rest of the site. Some did, of course, that's unavoidable, but most just left the site or stopped posting those things.

It's saddening because I've used Boards for so long and it's a shame to see it turned into this. Is there really nothing that can be done?

Muahahaha

I dont envy the mods anyway, its really hard to control when there are so many of them. The events of the last few weeks have really brought some knuckledraggers onto Boards, some of them would be more suited to Stormfront instead of spreading their bile here

Deebles McBeebles

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I really think you’re both missing the “big picture” here. Yes, there are clearly racially motivated threads going on. And, yes, these threads are packed to the gills with racists, bigots, nutjobs and xenophobes all spouting their hate-filled nonsense.

Same way there are misogynist and transphobic threads in there full of creeps, vicious oddballs, general malcontents and vile weirdos.

And the forum is the best place for them. I actually salute anyone who ventures in there and “tackles” these topics, and posters, as anyone who does is, vastly, outnumbered and rounded upon. But any time one does it gives the loons a real “impetus” to continue and keeps them occupied so they stay in their sty.

If things are changed it will be a disaster for the other, normal, forums. So, please, let’s just leave it as is and let the mods do the job they have to do in there.

Its not just staying there though, E. Check out this AH thread which could be about anything really, only takes a few posts to get around to people shoehorning their beliefs in, no matter the actual topic.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058090626

EmmetSpiceland

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Its not just staying there though, E. Check out this AH thread which could be about anything really, only takes a few posts to get around to people shoehorning their beliefs in, no matter the actual topic.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058090626

Yeah, there’s a few hanging around alright. Like a bad smell, D. I put that down to some “taking root” when threads aren’t moved over to CA fast enough.

And it does seem that the “free rein” over in CA has led to a tightening in AH. Fun appears to be curtailed or shipped off to far flung corners of the site where certain people have, shall we say, “vested interests”.

I do take on board what has been said. Leaving the CA forum “unchecked” isn’t solving anything and, given the Reddit examples, shouldn’t be condoned but, for now, I can’t see any alternative.

Ban everyone who has an “unsavoury” opinion on certain things? Site would be pretty empty if that’s the case. But it’s for the mods and admins to decide on what to do.

If they see it a “necessary” evil that’s protecting the rest of the site then so be it. At least we can be certain that they are monitoring the forum so they’ll be able to spot if that system isn’t suitable anymore.

And that’s all I have to say about that.

Gruffalux

<snip>

Beasty

Gruffalox wrote: »

<snip>

You need to have been on the site for 3 months and have a minimum postcount of 100 to post in Feedback

Harry Palmr

It really is time for a racist/xenophobe sub forum where topics involving "dem foreigners" and "dem blacks" can be discussed in terms that they are comfortable with. While greatly reducing the white noise of hate on the rest of boards.

It would also be a good self reveal Let's see how many of the usual gang of suspects would actually be ready to declare what they are?

i dunno

theres a lot of middle ground that is readily lumped in to an extreme view as soon as is possible

which yknow sorta defeats the purpose of a discussion board.

life and conversation arent two tests of orthodoxy whereby as soon as the impurity bell the righteous participant holds in their head rings the lowdown participant is on the scrapheap

although imo its clear from a lot of social media discourse, and tbh the tone of the puritan types in these threads, thats the level of quick check some are in favour of

its bad faith stuff on all sides and i see very few posters- even on the "good" side- with a genuine desire to engage or discuss as opposed to lecture, shut down and demonise

and as for the complaints/suggestions that posters are allowed post anything, id say if you went into the glasgow thread and posted "glasgow is a city in scotland" theyd be halfway towards a yellow card.

is that the level of control over opinion. ye want?

seems a lot of being righteous is rigid control over what gets to be said

it strikes me as a very strange definition is all

FVP3

Overheal wrote: »

This being locked makes no sense

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058090358/1

.

It made perfect sense to close it. It was about racist cops in a different country, and racist cops exist in every country. At the moment this site is basically becoming an adjunct of the US culture wars. This does matter when it influences policy over here, or Europe, so the George Floyd affair eventually became world important, but not every racist statement about black people in a country 6000 miles away is all that important over here.

You are from America, if I am correct, so could you not post on a US site?

Which is why I second the idea proposed on that thread that we create a sub forum for US current affairs. Topics would include the banning of US sitcoms, or problematic statues being taken down in San Francisco, or the campaign against confederate statues, or that US comedian who was banned, or the US journalist who was fired, or the apology from that US TV host, or the last blackface incident in the US, or whatever. There will be plenty of threads.

( Some of these could also be in Television forums or whatnot but there is less traffic there and more sanity).

Only when the US culture wars seep out into influencing Ireland, the UK, or Europe should we elevate these topics out of the US subforum. The banning of confederate flags in Nascar goes into the sub forum, the banning of the cork GAA use of the confederate flag goes into the top level forum.

This would curtail most of the right wingers into that forum, and the Americanised left who wish to talk about racism in the US, and not much else.

This seems to have worked with American politics in the electoral, rather than the general sense, as the threads on the US elections are confined in Politics for instance, to their own sub forum.

EDIT:

Actually I am wrong, the subforum seems to be dead but the US posts are marked with a [US] in politics, that might help people stay away from them. I know I stay away.