Introducing the Current Affairs/IMHO forum

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Gatling wrote: »

Oh stop wasting energy feed him or her .

Bake Off is on I made mini bake wells I don't take food from strangers.

Sir Oxman

Gruffalux wrote: »

Here....

Yup, not much of a contribution to an open debate thread.

Gatling

Desiree Microscopic Slavery wrote: »

Bake Off is on I made mini bake wells I don't take food from strangers.

More lies

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

I don't call people homophobes - I just say they have homophobic views.
I don't call people racists - I just say they hang out in racist cliques.
I don't call people alt right - I just say they are in alt right groups.
I don't call people bigots - I just say they are bigoted.

:rolleyes:

Gruffalux wrote: »

I think in part it is because so many trans allies and activists are fundamentally misogynists.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Gatling wrote: »

More lies

You see right through me. I was being posh calling them bake wells we actually call them Welsh cakes they are small and have no almond but a cross of pastry on top. Pastry, Lidl raspberry jam because it’s the best and then sponge on top.

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

Yes. Straight out. Not pretending by saying "you have misogynistic views" that I am not calling you a misogynist. Because I am. Many of the opinions expressed in that thread from not caring about women being injured in sports or not caring about girls having a choice what doctor attends her or zero regard for womens comfort in intimate spaces like prisons or rape shelters are the views of MISOGYNISTS. Misogynists dislike women. Yep. Misogynists. See I can say it straight out.

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

Yes. Straight out. Not pretending by saying "you have misogynistic views" that I am not calling you a misogynist. Because I am. Many of the opinions expressed in that thread from not caring about women being injured in sports or not caring about girls having a choice what doctor attends her or zero regard for womens comfort in intimate spaces like prisons or rape shelters are the views of MISOGYNISTS. Misogynists dislike women. Yep. Misogynists. See I can say it straight out.

So it shouldn't be an issue calling people with your views transphobes then right?

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

So it shouldn't be an issue calling people with your views transphobes then right?

I am not afraid of transgender people so it is an inaccurate term to be used for me.

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

I am not afraid of transgender people so it is an inaccurate term to be used for me.

What if someone deems your views to be indicative of someone who is transphobic?

Do the people you deem to be misogynistic make open statements about hating women?

Clearly you feel it's fine for you to label someone as misogynistic by analyzing their opinions but are not ok with other people labelling you as transphobic by analyzing your opinion.

Why is this?

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

What if someone deems your views to be indicative of someone who is transphobic?

Do the people you deem to be misogynistic make open statements about hating women?

Clearly you feel it's fine for you to label someone as misogynistic by analyzing their opinions but are not ok with other people labelling you as transphobic by analyzing your opinion.

Why is this?

You can take this discussion to the relevant thread where I will deal with you as I usually do. I was correcting your inaccurate feedback here by showing that you missed the salient point.

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

You can take this discussion to the relevant thread where I will deal with you as I usually do. I was correcting your inaccurate feedback here by showing that you missed the salient point.

I didn't miss the point at all but nice try.

Sure let's take this to the trans thread. Looking forward to hearing what double standard you use to justify this

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Gruffalux wrote: »

I am not afraid of transgender people so it is an inaccurate term to be used for me.

Knowledge has moved on from the ‘fear’ definition. That’s why heteronormative is more accurate for homophobia.

It’s not a fear of trans people but an irrational fear of what people think trans people will take from them.

Taking Weinberg’s definition of homophobia is a good place to start:

I coined the word homophobia to mean it was a phobia about homosexuals,” Dr. Weinberg told Gregory M. Herek, a professor of psychology at the University of California, Davis, in 1998. “It was a fear of homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a fear of contagion, a fear of reducing the things one fought for — home and family. It was a religious fear, and it had led to great brutality, as fear always does.”

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Spanish Eyes reinforces my point about mods.

It’s only allowed ‘here’ and subject to certain mods
that he/they can be ‘unmuzzled’ in regards to trans people, asylum seekers, travellers and so on.


Spanish Eyes says:
Terf applies to radical feminists. We are not all in that category at all. Some of us are men.

But from what I am reading here, many have the intelligence to see through this total bullsh!t now. Takes time for the reality to sink in because in fairness the GRA was passed with no reports in the WOKE media. Quelle surprise.

Same with Travellers, Asylum seekers, and so on. Not allowed to be mentioned at all.

Muzzled. So places like here (subject to the mods) are the only places we can say things now. Sad indeed,

excludedbin

Gruffalux wrote: »

I am not afraid of transgender people so it is an inaccurate term to be used for me.

Don't be one of those people who thinks "umm ackshually phobia means fear" is clever, when it modern parlance 'phobia' is well understood to mean 'irrational fear or dislike of something'. Do you think all homophobes are, strictly speaking, afraid of gay people?

Here it is, straight from the OED:

A fear, horror, strong dislike, or aversion; esp. an extreme or irrational fear or dread aroused by a particular object or circumstance.

That you dislike the term is no one's fault but your own but it is the correct term. Much like racists, the solution is to not exhibit the behaviour that falls within that definition if you don't like being called it.

jam_mac_jam

excludedbin wrote: »

Don't be one of those people who thinks "umm ackshually phobia means fear" is clever, when it modern parlance 'phobia' is well understood to mean 'irrational fear or dislike of something'. Do you think all homophobes are, strictly speaking, afraid of gay people?

Here it is, straight from the OED:


That you dislike the term is no one's fault but your own but it is the correct term. Much like racists, the solution is to not exhibit the behaviour that falls within that definition if you don't like being called it.

And just like racism it's entirely subjective. Some people would argue that things are transphobic that others would not.

And just like racism it looses its impact once it's applied to everything. If everything is racist then nothing is. The KKK or far right is the same as the smallest mistake.

If everything is racist then nothing is. Somebody on the thread in question was called racist because they said blacks instead of black people. I don't think that's racist. Another person does. I think being racist is judgement based on race. Completely subjective.

In the thread in question it's being argued that it's transphobic to have a sexual preference for a non trans person. Do I think that makes you transphobic? No. Do other people. Yes.

Again completely subjective.

By using these names with abandon you are making the impact of the words meaningless. You are changing the meaning of the word.

If everyone is a racist or a transphobe then nobody is.

i believe that the term "transphobe" has been challenged on that thread as being used to mean "anyone who disagrees with me" and no response was forthcoming

that thread is a mess alright but the quality of argument is sadly lacking beyond a kind of "lalalala cant hear you!", winkemoji.gif and "you're a transphobe" from the obvious side tbh

and in hear moaning then that it hasnt been locked.

rotten stuff

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

i believe that the term "transphobe" has been challenged on that thread as being used to mean "anyone who disagrees with me" and no response was forthcoming

that thread is a mess alright but the quality of argument is sadly lacking beyond a kind of "lalalala cant hear you!", winkemoji.gif and "you're a transphobe" from the obvious side tbh

and in hear moaning then that it hasnt been locked.

rotten stuff

Actually the use of transphobe has been justified extensively on that thread.

For example JK threatening her trans character with prison rape based on being trans.

Quantum Erasure

LLMMLL wrote: »

Actually the use of transphobe has been justified extensively on that thread.

For example JK threatening her trans character with prison rape based on being trans.

Why pick that example from a work of fiction? I'm sure there are plenty other, real examples....

LLMMLL

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Why pick that example? I'm sure there are plenty others....

Because it was the most recent one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There were others. Manipulating text in an ad for a swimming group to falsely imply that parents were forbidden from attending and therefore it was a front for paedophilia was probably the most egregious example.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

Actually the use of transphobe has been justified extensively on that thread.

For example JK threatening her trans character with prison rape based on being trans.

That's deep thinking. ...


Fictional character who is a transvetite not to be confused with transgender is threatened with rape in a fictional crime novel.

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

That's deep thinking. ...


Fictional character who is a transvetite not to be confused with transgender is threatened with rape in a fictional crime novel.

You're thinking of a different novel. The character was trans.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

You're thinking of a different novel. The character was trans.

Which one exactly are you referring to

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

Which one exactly are you referring to

The silkworm

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

The silkworm

But there was no threat of rape .

I believe that it was implied if the main character who was attacked by someone who was discovered as being trans could go to prison pre op and it wouldn't be fun which means they would be sent to a man's prison ,the character is a transwoman and lesbian

Beasty

@Gervais08

You have to have been registered for 3 months (and have a postcount of 100 or greater|) before you can post in Feedback

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

But there was no threat of rape .

I believe that it was implied if the main character who was attacked by someone who was discovered as being trans could go to prison pre op and it wouldn't be fun which means they would be sent to a man's prison ,the character is a transwoman and lesbian

Yeah I'm sure JK was thinking of all the lesbian fun Pippa would miss out on in male prison and this is what she was being threatened with.....

Quantum Erasure

Is every author who includes casual transphobia in their work a transphobe?

Is every author who... Etc. Etc...

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Is every author who includes casual transphobia in their work a transphobe?

Is every author who... Etc. Etc...

Well, there’s also the question of why shouldn’t a transgender character be portrayed negatively in fiction, as well there being positive depictions? Think of any societal group and there’ll be positive and negative depictions.

Gervais08

Beasty wrote: »

@Gervais08

You have to have been registered for 3 months (and have a postcount of 100 or greater|) before you can post in Feedback

Oh gosh I am so sorry, I didn’t know (please allow this one to apologise and I’ll go!) Delete if Best!!

Linked topic

Posters going out of their way on several threads to keep an argument about something going after failing to find satisfaction is a pretty obvious new trend on the site (or maybe I've only noticed it more often lately)

Is this something that is well addressed in the current mod handbook?

I know that infractions add up, and mods favour the "give em enough rope" approach but between a single poster being able to wreck three or four threads at a time as well as starting appeals and feedback threads, perhaps a sitewide timeout at the onset of any eh unbounded upset could be judiciously considered more often

Not even getting into how easy the slow escalation process makes it for re regs to really affect the pleasure genuine posters take from the site- not for a second hinting that anyone currently engaged in behaviour that may fit this profile isn't 100% genuine of course