Why I am not a feminist and don't believe in 'equality'.

ILoveYourVibes

Firstly.

I am a young woman.

This is not an attack on other women or other opinions. It's not to undermine other women intentionally. However I cannot control your feelings in reaction to what i say. So i will just try and say it as kindly as I can.

This is just my opinion based on my observations.

Also I don't consider myself 'RIGHT WING' at all. I just try to be the best person i can be. Somethings are not acceptable. Racism homophobia etc is just backward.

I think Trump is a moron.

Yet ...i am not a feminist.

I am not a feminist because I think the whole idea of feminism is a worship of masculinity. There is nothing WRONG with masculinity. Its very useful.

But well men do it better than women.

I think there are things that are just male and female traits. There was a kibutz study that found even when girls and boys where raised the same. They ended up conforming to gender norms.

Everything that has been traditionally masculine has been respected. Aggression etc competitiveness. Everything female has not. Even WOMEN respect them more. Todays women respect aggression and business acumen much more than traditional sensitivity and caring. They look on their grandmothers with SCORN and not respect.

Stay at home moms are scorned.

They raise their daughters to be 'STRONG' not emotionally expressive.

No wonder women want to espouse traits and characteristics they can respect. They want to be men.

We are LOSING the kindness in our society as a result.

We are less caring. We are losing the mother archtype.

You are now free to laugh at me.

And go on I shall not mind :pac:

I am a good sport.

We are too different to be equal.

It's important to teach feminine traits to women. Yes more important than it is to teach it to men. Why? Because we are better at it.

ILoveYourVibes

Also something my grandfather once said.

That if women worked ...men would use it as an excuse not to.

I think that has turned out to be true. For a certain section of society imo.

Now I don't have anything against women who work. But it does CHANGE women I think. Not always for the better. We are so aggressive.

And yes I do work.

I am just being honest.

jam_mac_jam

I am a feminist but I completely agree with you that Stay at home moms are scorned. The whole idea of feminism for me is about the choice to do as you want to and not be constrained by your sex. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I have some problems with feminism today, in particular the whole toxic masculinity thing and the excessive political correctness or whatever you want to call it.
Still a feminist though.

Stheno

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Also something my grandfather once said.

That if women worked ...men would use it as an excuse not to.

I think that has turned out to be true. For a certain section of society imo.

Now I don't have anything against women who work. But it does CHANGE women I think. Not always for the better. We are so aggressive.

And yes I do work.

I am just being honest.

So what are you saying op? We should all go back to the 50s?

jam_mac_jam

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Also something my grandfather once said.

That if women worked ...men would use it as an excuse not to.

I think that has turned out to be true. For a certain section of society imo.

Now I don't have anything against women who work. But it does CHANGE women I think. Not always for the better. We are so aggressive.

And yes I do work.

I am just being honest.

Women have always worked. We just didn't get paid for it. I Like getting paid for my labour and you can take that from my cold dead hands.

ILoveYourVibes

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I am a feminist but I completely agree with you that Stay at home moms are scorned. The whole idea of feminism for me is about the choice to do as you want to and not be constrained by your sex. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I have some problems with feminism today, in particular the whole toxic masculinity thing and the excessive political correctness or whatever you want to call it.
Still a feminist though.

Well i would like for all women non feminists and feminists to get along etc.

I think women who are non feminists attack you guys a lot.

Women on the right ...they don't espouse the traditional female qualities they say. I mean nurturing etc softness.

They can be real battle axes.

Yes i agree with toxic masculinity and excessive pc ness. I am just kind to everyone.

I allow for people being overly sensitive through kindness not through debating and arguing a political point.

This is how i try to live.

One eyed Jack

Stheno wrote: »

So what are you saying op? We should all go back to the 50s?

Jesus Cathy Newman’s in early :pac:


She’s making the point that feminism has become something of a toxic ideology that does women no favours, essentially.

Calina

as arguments go a lot of this is drivel. You are standing on the shoulders of the giants who made it possible to work and vote and have choices.

Women who work at home are not scorned. They are exploited by society. The cost of replacing their effort would be huge. Instead we A) dont ensure they are adequately paid for their effort b) their pension provisions are dire. Women are under served by health systems.

Young women who claim not to be feminists are free to declare so. But the beauty of their lives compared to their mothers and grandmothers is owed to women who a) had a lot more guts than they do and b) who are feminists.

jam_mac_jam

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well i would like for all women non feminists and feminists to get along etc.

I think women who are non feminists attack you guys a lot.

Women on the right ...they don't espouse the traditional female qualities they say. I mean nurturing etc softness.

They can be real battle axes.

Yes i agree with toxic masculinity and excessive pc ness. I am just kind to everyone.

I allow for people being overly sensitive through kindness not to debating and arguing a political point.

I'm kind too. Being a feminist doesn't stop me being kind?


I am feminine, I am a mother, I just think I should be able to vote, own land, have a passport and work and have the right to do everything a man can do. (Within reason, I can't do everything a man can physically so couldn't lift as much or run as fast. )

Stheno

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Jesus Cathy Newman’s in early :pac:


She’s making the point that feminism has become something of a toxic ideology that does women no favours, essentially.

That's one wave of feminism tbh not all

victor8600

You do not have to be a feminist, or any *ist.

If you follow a party or a movement, you are going to be constrained by the party's or movement's agenda. That is normal, it can be fashionable to belong to a movement, but you are not forced to join it.

Outlaw Pete

Stheno wrote: »

So what are you saying op? We should all go back to the 50s?

ILoveYourVibes

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Women have always worked. We just didn't get paid for it. I Like getting paid for my labour and you can take that from my cold dead hands.

I don't mean to frighten you with my ideas. :P THey are only mine of course you don't have to agree.

I work myself. (paid work)

Well i don't really agree with that first statement.

While things were not perfect before.

Women were supported financially by husbands. that is a TYPE of payment.

While what women did was not nearly as appreciated as it should have been I agree.

I wonder if because femininity was not appreciated before that was the reason women became so reactionary.


But we did it the wrong way. Instead of asking for appreciation as we were ...we went about making all the men's mistakes and just behaving as they behaved.

We didn't value our own qualities enough. We saw ourselves through their eyes as having no value as we were. So we became strong etc we wanted power etc. But the world only gains more fists and loses sensitivity that way.

Don't worry I don't want to convince you etc. I will let you be you!

GRACKEA

I hope he texts you back sis

ILoveYourVibes

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I'm kind too. Being a feminist doesn't stop me being kind?

No. I am sure you are very kind.

But it has changed women.

And i don't think always for the better. And I feel society is way more masculine now. Everyone is a lad.

ILoveYourVibes

GRACKEA wrote: »

I hope he texts you back sis

This is not for the boys.

Anyway I am gay.

ILoveYourVibes

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Jesus Cathy Newman’s in early :pac:


She’s making the point that feminism has become something of a toxic ideology that does women no favours, essentially.

I haven't read it but it sounds like i might like to.

I would say further it has done the world no favors.


I don't believe in toxic masculinity. But i mean if WE ALL worship masculinity i don't think that is good either.

Maybe I am wrong maybe feminine traits have no real value.

jam_mac_jam

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't mean to frighten you with my ideas. :P THey are only mine of course you don't have to agree.

I work myself. (paid work)

Well i don't really agree with that first statement.

While things were not perfect before.

Women were supported financially by husbands. that is a TYPE of payment.

While what women did was not nearly as appreciated as it should have been I agree.

I wonder if because femininity was not appreciated before that was the reason women became so reactionary.


But we did it the wrong way. Instead of asking for appreciation as we were ...we went about making all the men's mistakes and just behaving as they behaved.

We didn't value our own qualities enough. We saw ourselves through their eyes as having no value as we were. So we became strong etc we wanted power etc. But the world only gains more fists and loses sensitivity that way.

Don't worry I don't want to convince you etc. I will let you be you!

I'm not scared of your ideas in the slightest. Why would I? Short of me moving to Saudi its not anything I will have to deal with in my lifetime.


I am making the point that its important to me to be paid for my labour and yes, I would fight for it. I don't have to rely on anybody. I am with the man that I am because I want to be not because I am forced to.

I am not good at minding kids, I don't want to mind kids. Fair play to the women and men who do but its not for me.


Having me at home minding kids is massively inefficient when I can be better and happier doing something else. All women are not geared or meant to be housewives.

Dial Hard

I'm not sure the OP actually understands what feminism is.

Stheno

Dial Hard wrote: »

I'm not sure the OP actually understands what feminism is.

Think they are confusing femininity and feminism tbh

ILoveYourVibes

I am making the point that its important to me to be paid for my labour and yes, I would fight for it. I don't have to rely on anybody. I am with the man that I am because I want to be not because I am forced to.

What is wrong with relying on someone?

I think its dangerous to teach women they can't rely on their partners etc.

And i think it says a lot of negative things about men.

I know lots of men i could rely on.

I am not good at minding kids, I don't want to mind kids. Fair play to the women and men who do but its not for me.


Having me at home minding kids is massively inefficient when I can be better and happier doing something else. All women are not geared or meant to be housewives.

I won't tell you what to be. But I will say i don't think men are at all geared up for it.

ILoveYourVibes

Stheno wrote: »

Think they are confusing femininity and feminism tbh

I am not.

I think feminism subconsciously seeks to destroy what is female though.

Minding children is not exciting etc. For centuries it was not valued OF COURSE WE DONT think its exciting. It was drudge work.

You subconsciously adopt the values of what you see portrayed around you.

Women now want to be what men value.

Men are more important ..daddies are more important they don't want to be mommy they want to be like daddy and go out and do the important exciting things.

I am half the same.

Feminism to me is allowing what men value dictate how a woman sees herself.

rob316

There is nothing equal about feminism IMO it promotes the idea that women are better than men and has lost its way. Truth is you are a person in control of how much better than your peers you want to be regardless of gender.
Things like gender pay gap are conjured up then to stoke the mob.
It's such bull****.

You want to stay at home and raise the kids? Go for it, your not bowing to the man.

Women shouldn't be brick layers or tradesmen, it's not sexist it's physically men are better suited to it.

I like women been softer emotional beings, who want to wear make up, feel pretty and attractive to men. They are welcome to earn more money than me, no one is really bothered.

We should teach our daughters be what you want to be. A model, a teacher, a lawyer, a doctor, a hairdresser, a beautician.

jimgoose

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This is not for the boys.

Anyway I am gay.

Did you not allude to having a husband in the thread about the Tory MP manhandling the protester?

seamus

Dial Hard wrote: »

I'm not sure the OP actually understands what feminism is.

Well, she's coming off seeing a skewed interpretation of feminism and assuming that's what feminism is.

There is a strand of people who believe that "feminism" is basically as simple as making women more like men. Strong, brave, blah, blah.

Like when BIC in South Africa thought that an "empowering" message for women was to "Think like a man".

But this isn't feminism. And it's certainly not the only message being pushed.

At one stage it was up there. That women who did "women's work" were betraying feminism. But that was because at the time, there was a struggle. Women who had no choice to stay at home, still defended that non-choice. And so feminists looked down on them for defending it.

But it's swung back again now. Modern feminists don't look down on women who choose to stay at home to mind the kids. Or who choose to wear high heels, short skirts and makeup.

Because all they ever wanted was the right to choose whether they wanted to stay at home and mind the kids. To choose whether to cast a vote. To choose to have a personal bank account. To choose to have their medical history kept private from their spouse. To choose to wear trousers and cut their hair short.

So if you believe that feminism is about attacking women for being "womanly", then you have a very outdated view of feminism that doesn't really exist any more.

ILoveYourVibes

rob316 wrote: »

There is nothing equal about feminism IMO it promotes the idea that women are better than men and has lost its way. Truth is you are a person in control of how much better than your peers you want to be regardless of gender.
Things like gender pay gap are conjured up then to stoke the mob.
It's such bull****.

You want to stay at home and raise the kids? Go for it, your not bowing to the man.

Women shouldn't be brick layers or tradesmen, it's not sexist it's physically men are better suited to it.

I like women been softer emotional beings, who want to wear make up, feel pretty and attractive to men. They are welcome to earn more money than me, no one is really bothered.

We should teach our daughters be what you want to be. A model, a teacher, a lawyer, a doctor, a hairdresser, a beautician.

I agree.

Moreover we should teach our daughters that to be soft or meek is not a bad thing. It's something the world is lacking.

suicide_circus

biology has been holding women back for years

ILoveYourVibes

seamus wrote: »

Well, she's coming off seeing a skewed interpretation of feminism and assuming that's what feminism is.

There is a strand of people who believe that "feminism" is basically as simple as making women more like men. Strong, brave, blah, blah.

Like when BIC in South Africa thought that an "empowering" message for women was to "Think like a man".

But this isn't feminism. And it's certainly not the only message being pushed.

At one stage it was up there. That women who did "women's work" were betraying feminism. But that was because at the time, there was a struggle. Women who had no choice to stay at home, still defended that non-choice. And so feminists looked down on them for defending it.

But it's swung back again now. Modern feminists don't look down on women who choose to stay at home to mind the kids.

Because all they ever wanted was the right to choose whether they wanted to stay at home and mind the kids. To choose whether to cast a vote. To choose to have a personal bank account. To choose to have their medical history kept private from their spouse.

So if you believe that feminism is about attacking women for being "womanly", then you have a very outdated view of feminism that doesn't really exist any more.

I think you have to admit it's what feminism has turned into in reality.

ILoveYourVibes

jimgoose wrote: »

Did you not allude to having a husband in the thread about the Tory MP manhandling the protester?

No i said if I had one.

ILoveYourVibes

suicide_circus wrote: »

biology has been holding women back for years

I am not sure what you mean.

Vincent van Gogh

The majority of women don't recognise themselves as feminist so not a big deal.

James Brown

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Also something my grandfather once said.

That if women worked ...men would use it as an excuse not to.

I think that has turned out to be true. For a certain section of society imo.

Now I don't have anything against women who work. But it does CHANGE women I think. Not always for the better. We are so aggressive.

And yes I do work.

I am just being honest.

You aren't very enlightened IMO. Your views are your own. I don't see why you feel you should have certain views because you're a woman. People are different and we all have different traits.
In my experience women always worked be it at home or outside. Mothers are the bedrock generally.
Your posts read like a wind up, if I'm honest.

ILoveYourVibes

Vincent van Gogh wrote: »

The majority of women don't recognise themselves as feminist so not a big deal.

True.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

If you believe that women's lives, rights, opinions, experiences etc are as important as men's then you're basically a feminist. With an ideology as long in the tooth as feminism is there will be fractures and diversity within it, and there's a lot to discuss about where modern feminism is headed and who it's serving. You don't have to believe that there are zero differences between men and women to be a feminist; the most ardent ones I know could probably talk for an uninterrupted hour (assuming there were no men there to talk over them :pac:) on the subject of those differences.


Capitalism has got its stinky little fingers all over everything, is the main thing. Using feminism to flog deodourant and diamonds and everything in between.

My work doesn't pay much but I would go insane stuck at home in unpaid work. Atm I'm working a lot (60 hr week this week) outside the home, my partner is working rather less and doing that from home. He's cooking, doing the housework, taking care of the garden, of course I'm chipping in but he's doing most of it. He's far better at it than I am, and he likes being at home. If we were living in some pre-feminist utopia where we weren't expected or allowed outside rigid gender roles we'd be living in an Arthur-Milleresque nightmare relationship.

ILoveYourVibes

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You aren't very enlightened IMO. Your views are your own. I don't see why you feel you should have certain views because you're a woman. People are different and we all have different traits.
In my experience women always worked be it at home or outside. Mothers are the bedrock generally.

I think realizing certain personal qualities are being sucked out of society and that the ONLY reason women went into the workforce was that capitalism NEEDED them is highly enlightened.

It was nothing to do with women. It was economic need that was all. It was not for our benefit. It was not because people thought women had something to offer either.

We were thought of as rather unfit for what was needed by capitalism if you look back.


Why has work dominated the conversation anyway?

Mothers are no longer the bedrock imo.

Vincent van Gogh

Ace Immense Starter wrote: »

If you believe that women's lives, rights, opinions, experiences etc are as important as men's then you're basically a feminist.

Or an egalitarian.

ILoveYourVibes

Ace Immense Starter wrote: »

If you believe that women's lives, rights, opinions, experiences etc are as important as men's then you're basically a feminist. With an ideology as long in the tooth as feminism is there will be fractures and diversity within it, and there's a lot to discuss about where modern feminism is headed and who it's serving. You don't have to believe that there are zero differences between men and women to be a feminist; the most ardent ones I know could probably talk for an uninterrupted hour (assuming there were no men there to talk over them :pac:) on the subject of those differences.


Capitalism has got its stinky little fingers all over everything, is the main thing. Using feminism to flog deodourant and diamonds and everything in between.

My work doesn't pay much but I would go insane stuck at home in unpaid work. Atm I'm working a lot (60 hr week this week) outside the home, my partner is working rather less and doing that from home. He's cooking, doing the housework, taking care of the garden, of course I'm chipping in but he's doing most of it. He's far better at it than I am, and he likes being at home. If we were living in some pre-feminist utopia where we weren't expected or allowed outside rigid gender roles we'd be living in an Arthur-Milleresque nightmare relationship.

I think women's lives are more important. As are children's. Women and children.
Biology.

I understand what you are saying.

But all this ..feminism is a fractured ideology this that ....feminism is NOTHING. It's an arts subject.


Asking for the vote ..that is a THING it's an action. It's not a fractured idea of the people's judean front etc.

ILoveYourVibes

Vincent van Gogh wrote: »

Or an egalitarian.

This is it ...

jimgoose

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No i said if I had one.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

...But if a guy grabbed my neck in that manner I would expect my husband to DECK HIM!...

You did not.

ILoveYourVibes

Ace Immense Starter wrote: »

My work doesn't pay much but I would go insane stuck at home in unpaid work. Atm I'm working a lot (60 hr week this week) outside the home, my partner is working rather less and doing that from home. He's cooking, doing the housework, taking care of the garden, of course I'm chipping in but he's doing most of it. He's far better at it than I am, and he likes being at home. If we were living in some pre-feminist utopia where we weren't expected or allowed outside rigid gender roles we'd be living in an Arthur-Milleresque nightmare relationship.

Well i wouldn't have you living in a nightmare. Stay away from the cooker

jimgoose

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I think women's lives are more important. As are children's. Women and children.
Biology...

I'm starting to think you're way too sweet to be wholesome, as the oul' wans would say. :pac::pac::pac:

ILoveYourVibes

jimgoose wrote: »

You did not.

I meant it that way.

I have also posted hot totty in the most beautiful girl in the world thread you can check.;)

jimgoose

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I meant it that way.

I have also posted hot totty in the most beautiful girl in the world thread you can check.;)

I won't bother my barney, no.

ILoveYourVibes

jimgoose wrote: »

I'm starting to think you're way too sweet to be wholesome, as the oul' wans would say. :pac::pac::pac:

I am a very strange unusual individual.

SusieBlue

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well i wouldn't have you living in a nightmare. Stay away from the cooker

You lose any minor credibility your position has when you start making unwarranted patronising responses like that.

ILoveYourVibes

jimgoose wrote: »

I won't bother my barney, no.

Probably best it got a bit hot in there! I might be embarrassed!

I am actually bi. But fairly queer!

AustinLostin

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I think women's lives are more important. As are children's. Women and children.
Biology.

I understand what you are saying.

But all this ..feminism is a fractured ideology this that ....feminism is NOTHING. It's an arts subject.


Asking for the vote ..that is a THING it's an action. It's not a fractured idea of the people's judean front etc.

I think grading lives in a league table of who's more important is pretty twisted. Granted yeah, children and the women should take priority in some kind of survival situation but in a general sense?? Alarming.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I think women's lives are more important. As are children's. Women and children.
Biology.

I understand what you are saying.

But all this ..feminism is a fractured ideology this that ....feminism is NOTHING. It's an arts subject.


Asking for the vote ..that is a THING it's an action. It's not a fractured idea of the people's judean front etc.

Feminism is a fractured ideology. Just like socialism, liberalism, Marxism and the other critically important ideological frameworks of the previous two centuries or so and is no more "just an arts subject" than any of those. It has had, and continues to have, massive transformative impacts on people's lives

I can send you some reading materials if you would like to look into the history of it and what it actually generally means.

This is like me saying someone's not Irish because they don't like GAA. You can kind of see how someone's mind might have filtered and distorted and added to information from lots of different sources and arrived there but...it ain't right.

James Brown

Ace Immense Starter wrote: »

If you believe that women's lives, rights, opinions, experiences etc are as important as men's then you're basically a feminist. With an ideology as long in the tooth as feminism is there will be fractures and diversity within it, and there's a lot to discuss about where modern feminism is headed and who it's serving. You don't have to believe that there are zero differences between men and women to be a feminist; the most ardent ones I know could probably talk for an uninterrupted hour (assuming there were no men there to talk over them :pac:) on the subject of those differences.


Capitalism has got its stinky little fingers all over everything, is the main thing. Using feminism to flog deodourant and diamonds and everything in between.

My work doesn't pay much but I would go insane stuck at home in unpaid work. Atm I'm working a lot (60 hr week this week) outside the home, my partner is working rather less and doing that from home. He's cooking, doing the housework, taking care of the garden, of course I'm chipping in but he's doing most of it. He's far better at it than I am, and he likes being at home. If we were living in some pre-feminist utopia where we weren't expected or allowed outside rigid gender roles we'd be living in an Arthur-Milleresque nightmare relationship.

You see Vibes, what Electro is saying is....

ILoveYourVibes

SusieBlue wrote: »

You lose any minor credibility your position has when you start making unwarranted patronising responses like that.

I do apologize. It was meant to be a 'nice' joke.

I don't think electro bitch would mind.

I think you are being overly sensitive on her behalf.


And why do I have to be credible to you or anyone??

That's silly.

I am not trying to convince people. But you are being overly hostile.

My opinion is mine I am not trying to start a movement!

I ain't changing the world!

jimgoose

Ace Immense Starter wrote: »

Feminism is a fractured ideology...

Is that MEAT??!?