Why I am not a feminist and don't believe in 'equality'.

Wibbs

Indeed. They've bought into this American "red pill" stuff. One reason it's popular is that yup there are women and relationships like they describe, but it's extremely selective.

Thankfully these days I don't know anyone in an abusive relationship, I know a few who aren't the healthiest, but haven't as far as I'm aware gone over to abuse(and most seem to be down to bad choices of people in the first place). As far as bad partners go in my small sample group anyway it seems evenly split between men and women.

I have known a few abusive relationships down the years and again seems roughly equal between the two and in many each was as bad as the other. Most didn't report the abuse, but the few that did were women. Women are more likely to report it and they will garner more support and sympathy when they do. If the Guards are called to a domestic(which they understandably hate, especially when there are kids involved) in the vast majority of cases where they feel the couple need to be separated, the man will be told to leave.

It happened to a friend of a friend. An ex wife who was fine in the early days, but went nuts over time. He tried to get her help, but to no avail. Anyway one night she went at him with one of those walking stick things hikers use. She then called the guards and he was escorted out, even though he was the one bruised and bleeding. The Guards even bought him to casualty. He lost the house and fought for years to get access to his kids. I've heard quite a few similar cases. There are about equal bastards and bitches, but society in general gives the bitches more leeway and advantage.

Silentcorner

Calina wrote: »

More women wind up dead. You are underplaying the seriousness of that here by suggesting manipulation is worse than violence. I didnt add the sexual violence figures for Ireland as they are not clearly split domestically. But they are severely weighted towards women being the victims.

Ireland has legislation to cater for emotional abuse btw which should see some clearer options for both men and women.

For the American figures, I suspect they do not map especially well to Ireland given major cultural differences particularly around weapons. I suspect UK figures map more closely due to cultural proximity.

I am not the one underplaying anything....lets be very clear about that...

Domestic abuse is a very serious issue that has different consequences for both genders, in the case of women, in the most extreme cases it can result in death...in the case of men, it can devastate a life in different manner.

It is not a gendered issue...it is very misleading....which is why we know all about female victims of domestic violence and very little about male victims.

Wibbs

Silentcorner wrote: »

You'd imagine in the era of equality it would, but it has to be said, the feminist movement has a long history of burying any suggestion that women are capable of abuse...that is happening today...thanks to the same ideology.

When the first domestic abuse refuges were opened in the 1960's in the UK they were open to both male and female victims. Radical feminists of the time are on record for fighting the inclusion of male victims and hounded the few organisations extant to remove them. The woman who founded the first refuge got death threats over her insistence that it wasn't a "women are always the victims" narrative and ended up frozen out and barred from entering the very organisation she founded. Like I say this is on record.

Worldwide there are more refuges for the pets of domestic abuse victims who are women than there are refuges for male victims.

jam_mac_jam

Wibbs wrote: »

When the first domestic abuse refuges were opened in the 1960's in the UK they were open to both male and female victims. Radical feminists of the time are on record for fighting the inclusion of male victims and hounded the few organisations extant to remove them. The woman who founded the first refuge got death threats over her insistence that it wasn't a "women are always the victims" narrative and ended up frozen out and barred from entering the very organisation she founded. Like I say this is on record.

Worldwide there are more refuges for the pets of domestic abuse victims who are women than there are refuges for male victims.

That is a frightening and horrible.

Wibbs

Silentcorner wrote: »

It is not a gendered issue...it is very misleading....which is why we know all about female victims of domestic violence and very little about male victims.

Largely because regardless of feminism(though it eggs it on for its own purpose) women are seen as in more need of protection. Society "values", protects children, women and men, in that order. Has done before feminism too. Women and children first into the lifeboats kinda thing. Could be down to the fact that for human groups throughout history and before children were the future and women were the more "biologically valuable" sex and men the more "biologically disposable" . Women can create more futures as it were and only need a few men around to do so. The earliest art humans produced that represented themselves overwhelmingly favours the female form. Genetics show this too. More female genetic lines survive down to today, because fewer men reproduced.

This hierarchy of social protection is still with us and pretty deep in us too. Like I said earlier if people see a man hit a woman in the street it's more likely to cause intervention than the other way around. You want extra money for your charity, show kids and women in peril. Man sleeping in doorways is a statistic, woman sleeping in a doorway is a problem. Boko Haram were busy killing men and boys and sending the girls and women home to be good muslim wives and the world did feck all, but when they held a bunch of girls captive, the world lost its shit. In a hostage situation who do negotiators ask to be released first? The men?

Calina

Calina wrote: »

More women wind up dead. .

I know 2 men that committed suicide because of abusive partners. One was constantly flirting and kissing other men in front of him. The other just demeaned and belittled him until he could take it no longer. I suspect this is a common cause of male suicide. Realtionship issues are one of the main causes cited in studies. And as we know male suicide is multiples of female suicide.

And how many women are killed by their male partners? Not many - it is always front page news. If it was common it wouldn't make the papers. Male suicides generally don't.

I am not trying to make light of domestic violence against women, just making thr point that its not only women who are victims of it.

anewme

This is a very strange thread. It's all over the place and contradictory as others have said. Its more about personality traits than masculine or feminine.

You csn be strong but allow yourself to be emotionally expressive. A friend in work this week, man in his 40's, was in tears going to put his 17 year old beloved dog to sleep. He built up the strength to do it. You can be kind, but assertive. You can be meek, but agressive.

Stop putting labels on people.

I see it as very important with raising children to be strong. As a result of my upbringing, I grew up to be resilient and assertive and independent.

Building resilience and developing life coping skills is essential for teenagers and children growing up now. Adult bullying is rife too. Encouraging children not to be meek and to stand up for themselves and also be strong enough to speak out when they witness wrongdoing is a way to combat this.

Ive had this very conversation with my 16 year old niece this week folliwing on from the the heartbreaking news reports. Making sure children have support networks in place is essentiall, that they know they can turn to and feel safe confiding in.

RIGOLO

The thread has taken so many directions , I had to go back and re-read the OPs first post a few times to reset.

OP I wonder if some of your viewpoint and questioning of 'western' feminism is based on exposure you have had in your life to Judaism. You seem to have had some exposure to it.

In traditional Judaism women have always been seen as primarily mothers and homemakers, but at the same time this role has been given great importance in Judaic society. So whilst modern western civilisation would see that as a backward step from a feminists point of view . It should really be taken in the broader context of tht role of homemaker being given great importance in Judaic society, and one can look at other examples of women having an historical strong foundation in Judaism, whether its their own mitzvah, or rosh chodesh etc.
Granted Judaism is having its own fight now with the growing power of orthodoxy which is clashing with the gains made by women in their society in the past 60 years. Also its probably not a coincidence many leading feminists in the 20th century were in fact Jewish, even if some teachings of the Talmud are not kind to women.

I think feminism has been corrupted by the radicals, much like many movements down thru history, labour, the left, green partys, even science to some degree, all corrupted by the loudest mouth or the biggest ego or greediest member, in the room .


Its an interesting thread.
The hardliners will never change their entrenchment but the moderates who after all are the ones who really matter in the long run are benefiting.

Gimme A Pound

Men and women are different - correct

Men in general are physically stronger than women - correct (this is always emphasised when it suits - to highlight how sh1t women's sports are, and how we would be living in mud huts if not for men's construction abilities).

But resistance to women being more at risk of violence from men - why? The above two statements support it.

However, men absolutely can be abused by women - mentally AND physically (not all men are physically strong, and the woman can use any implement as a weapon), tactics like using children against their father can be resorted to, which is pure evil.

But who can be those who dismiss men being abused? Other men! The problem does not just lie with feminism.

Airyfairy12

Wibbs wrote: »

When the first domestic abuse refuges were opened in the 1960's in the UK they were open to both male and female victims. Radical feminists of the time are on record for fighting the inclusion of male victims and hounded the few organisations extant to remove them. The woman who founded the first refuge got death threats over her insistence that it wasn't a "women are always the victims" narrative and ended up frozen out and barred from entering the very organisation she founded. Like I say this is on record.

Worldwide there are more refuges for the pets of domestic abuse victims who are women than there are refuges for male victims.

I remember reading about this, something about husbands and partners of the abused women finding them in these shelters and threatening them, abusing them and some women were actually murdered by abusive partners who claimed to be victims in order to get access to their wives and ex partners. - There children where also at risk, there had been cases of child sexual abuse by male victims in the shelter.
There had also been cases rapes, attempted rape, physical violence and sexual abuse towards women by men in the shelters and women felt intimidated. The feminists at the time wearnt insisting that men dont have refuges, just that they be separate from womens, which makes sense. If you get raped, youre traumatized and the last place you want to be is in a strange place with strange men.

Cant say ive ever heard anyone ever say that women cant be abusive and men cant be abused. I only ever hear this rhetoric from men and only when something comes up about abused women, rape or feminism.
Theres been allot of talk in the media recently about men and suicide, charities, groups, clubs and events have been set up specifically for men to help them, to raise awareness - this has all be supported by women, you dont ever hear or see women writing comments about how women get depressed to, women can kill themselves. It doesnt happen, even though women are statistically more likely to suffer from depression. Yet when women are abused, raped, killed by partners, husbands, male strangers - there are always men shouting about how men can be abused by women - tbh its completely narcissistic to make something like that all about yourselves and demand equal sympathy and supports for something that isnt a hugely common issue amongst your gender like it is for women.
If the lack of supports for men is something that you feel strongly about, what are you doing about it? The only reason there are any women's refuge's is because women had to fight a long hard battle to get them and even still, beds are limited and women and children are regularly turned away, not every town has a refuge for women or men and the only reason there are more refuges for women is because theres such a huge demand for them, women and children are more likely die at the hands of a male partner or husband than a man at the hands of his wife. Every other week theres a news story about a woman or girl being raped or murdered.

So you either want less womens refuges to balance it out to that of male refuges or you want much needed funding taken away from the already under funded womens refuges to build more male ones which may not even be needed.

Hedgelayer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know 2 men that committed suicide because of abusive partners. One was constantly flirting and kissing other men in front of him. The other just demeaned and belittled him until he could take it no longer. I suspect this is a common cause of male suicide. Realtionship issues are one of the main causes cited in studies. And as we know male suicide is multiples of female suicide.

And how many women are killed by their male partners? Not many - it is always front page news. If it was common it wouldn't make the papers. Male suicides generally don't.

I am not trying to make light of domestic violence against women, just making thr point that its not only women who are victims of it.

Men are often the victims of convert narcissistic abuse, control by rejection and the silent treatment is a killer.

Some men just put up with it for a quiet life.
But ironically they're screaming inside but put on a good show.

Men also can be covert narcissists, obviously.

Being a moderate and the only label I have is I'm a gay man, I don't agree with the whole philosophy of feminism because it's so diverse and full of contradictory boundaries which can be broken at will...

It reminds me of new age woo or spirituality, feminism reminds me of a dusty ball of cotton wool with fishing hooks randomly sticking out ward's, some with barb's other with points....

MGTOW can be quite destructive too, men going their own way.....

There's no real simple defination of femmimisn.

It confuses me, it's like a mixed bag.

I asked someone earlier in the thread to simplify feminism for me and I got no response

SusieBlue

Hedgelayer wrote: »

I asked someone earlier in the thread to simplify feminism for me and I got no response

I replied to you, reread the thread.

Silentcorner

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I remember reading about this, something about husbands and partners of the abused women finding them in these shelters and threatening them, abusing them and some women were actually murdered by abusive partners who claimed to be victims in order to get access to their wives and ex partners. - There children where also at risk, there had been cases of child sexual abuse by male victims in the shelter.
There had also been cases rapes, attempted rape, physical violence and sexual abuse towards women by men in the shelters and women felt intimidated. The feminists at the time wearnt insisting that men dont have refuges, just that they be separate from womens, which makes sense. If you get raped, youre traumatized and the last place you want to be is in a strange place with strange men.

Cant say ive ever heard anyone ever say that women cant be abusive and men cant be abused. I only ever hear this rhetoric from men and only when something comes up about abused women, rape or feminism.
Theres been allot of talk in the media recently about men and suicide, charities, groups, clubs and events have been set up specifically for men to help them, to raise awareness - this has all be supported by women, you dont ever hear or see women writing comments about how women get depressed to, women can kill themselves. It doesnt happen, even though women are statistically more likely to suffer from depression. Yet when women are abused, raped, killed by partners, husbands, male strangers - there are always men shouting about how men can be abused by women - tbh its completely narcissistic to make something like that all about yourselves and demand equal sympathy and supports for something that isnt a hugely common issue amongst your gender like it is for women.
If the lack of supports for men is something that you feel strongly about, what are you doing about it? The only reason there are any women's refuge's is because women had to fight a long hard battle to get them and even still, beds are limited and women and children are regularly turned away, not every town has a refuge for women or men and the only reason there are more refuges for women is because theres such a huge demand for them, women and children are more likely die at the hands of a male partner or husband than a man at the hands of his wife. Every other week theres a news story about a woman or girl being raped or murdered.

So you either want less womens refuges to balance it out to that of male refuges or you want much needed funding taken away from the already under funded womens refuges to build more male ones which may not even be needed.

You need to familiarize yourself with the Domestic Violence movement, Erin Pizzey, who was run out of her own country by feminists ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnUwxxijr3g

Those feminists should be ashamed of themselves...it shouldn't be controversial to suggest that domestic violence is not a gendered issue, but here we are!

Wibbs

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I remember reading about this, something about husbands and partners of the abused women finding them in these shelters and threatening them, abusing them and some women were actually murdered by abusive partners who claimed to be victims in order to get access to their wives and ex partners. - There children where also at risk, there had been cases of child sexual abuse by male victims in the shelter.
There had also been cases rapes, attempted rape, physical violence and sexual abuse towards women by men in the shelters and women felt intimidated. The feminists at the time wearnt insisting that men dont have refuges, just that they be separate from womens, which makes sense. If you get raped, youre traumatized and the last place you want to be is in a strange place with strange men.

This woman started the first one in the UK.

In her article for the Daily Mail, Pizzey said that "militant" feminists – with the collusion of Labour's leading women – "hijacked" her cause to "destroy family life."[21] Pizzey said of the newly emerging establishment "I never saw Women's Aid as a movement that was hostile to men, but The National Federation, which quickly formed, made it quite clear that men were the enemy."[22] After the alleged hijacking, the demand for a service for women survivors of domestic violence grew and soon public funding became available.[14]:106 Pizzey has lamented that the movement she started had moved from the "personal to the political".[23][24]

Soon after establishing her first refuge, Pizzey asserted that much domestic violence was reciprocal,[14]:82 with both partners abusing each other in roughly equal measure. She reached this conclusion when she asked the women in her refuge about their violence, only to discover most of the women were equally violent or more violent than their husbands. In her study "Comparative Study of Battered Women And Violence-Prone Women,"[25] (co-researched with John Gayford of Warlingham Hospital), Pizzey distinguishes between "genuine battered women"[25] and "violence-prone women";[25] the former defined as "the unwilling and innocent victim of his or her partner's violence"[25] and the latter defined as "the unwilling victim of his or her own violence."[25] This study reports that 62% of the sample population were more accurately described as "violence prone." Similar findings regarding the mutuality of domestic violence have been confirmed in subsequent studies.[26][27]

It was as much about her suggesting and with multiple studies that have confirmed her hypothesis that its not nearly so clear cut as women always victims, men always victimisers that drew ire from a few quarters. Links to the studies involved:Link one A long list of studies into the matter with a load of reading material.

That wiki on Ms Pizzey goes onto to outline the equally long list of threats and intimidation because she questioned the accepted narrative of the feminist movement at the time. A narrative we still cling to today.

The subject is of course a complex one. Are women in abusive relationships more likely to end up more injured or dead compared to men? Of course. The physical reasons are obvious. Are perpetrators of extreme cases of physical abuse more likely to be men, yep again. Are women more likely to be victims of sexual assault? Yes. Only a fool would argue those points. However it is more complex than that and study after study shows that at the "lower end" of relationship abuse the figures are far more equal and that is almost never acknowledged.

And a large part of that is "feminism", a movement whose definition, even in the mainstream can often and handily be defined as; women are always agentless victims and men/the patriarchy are always to blame. As I've said before try finding any wider pronouncement in the feminist mainstream that disagrees with that. NB I said mainstream, because this is not just a few weird beards at the fringes as is often claimed. Even when men are acknowledged as victims it's because of the patriarchy, or of late their "toxic masculinity", it's somehow still their fault.

Think on the term "toxic masculinity" for a moment. Is there such a thing as "toxic femininity"? Even if some traits more seen in Women™ are negatives it's almost always reframed yet again as them being a victim of some sort. No agency again and blame lays somewhere else.

Actually victimhood and the oppressed/oppressor narrative is the biggest thing going on of late, on all sides and of damned near every debate. Hell go on youtube or wherever and pick a side and you'll find that narrative play out. On the Right, Left, Feminist, Masculinist(?), whatever you're having yourself. Sod that nonsense. EG earlier I noted how overall society tends towards valuing children, women and men in that order. I noted it, but don't feel as a man a "victim" because of it. It is what it is, but I do acknowledge it. You will pretty much never hear self proclaimed feminists acknowledge their advantages, only the things that endlessly paint them as the victim. Take the The National Women's Council of Ireland's report on the pay gap. In a report since deleted(I have a copy somewhere I'll try and find it), it noted that women on average earn more than men before kids come along, but even there painted it as somehow a negative. It would be a nice change to hear something different. Not just from the feminist quarter either.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Silentcorner wrote: »

"The ultimate score"...good jesus!!!

Of course men can do more physical damage to women, on account of the huge physical differences...but we have no idea what the impact of female domestic abuse has on men, because in truth, nobody is funding it, does it feed into the much higher suicide rates for men...I think so.

A Harvard study conducted a few years ago discovered that in the case of non reciprocal domestic violence, women are more likely to be the abuser....women who abuse will use different tools to abuse their partner, lets be honest, the tool of a toxic man is his fists more often than not, the tool of a toxic woman is here ability to manipulate...

https://www.quora.com/How-serious-is-domestic-violence-against-men-compared-to-domestic-violence-against-women

When you consider here in Ireland, we fund services for female victims of domestic abuse to the tune of €17,000,000 per annum, we fund male victims of domestic abuse to the tune of €1,000,000...

We know that men are way more likely not to report abuse, we can also assume that men probably don't even realise that they are being abused!

It is sad that this issue has been gendered, it is way more nuanced than that, it is also very misleading.

If you’re toxic, male or female, you’re adept at manipulation.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Erin Pizzey falling out with the wider feminist movement and gender segregated domestic abuse shelters are separate issues, I'm disappointed you'd conflate them Wibbs.

There should be more men's shelters. But saying not having men in women's shelters is because it doesn't suit the narrative that women are always victims is twisting things to push your own narrative about feminism. There aren't men in women's shelters because it leads to the women in them being targeted directly or by proxy by the partners they're fleeing from.

And as you acknowledge yourself, that's far more likely to be an actual life or death situation.

Wibbs

Ace Immense Starter wrote: »

Erin Pizzey falling out with the wider feminist movement and gender segregated domestic abuse shelters are separate issues, I'm disappointed you'd conflate them Wibbs.

I didn't. She set up women only shelters precisely because she wanted victims to feel safe.I used her example of how one narrative, feminism attempted and succeeded in hijacking the wider truth when it didn't suit their perpetual victimhood status. Indeed Her "crime" was to suggest men weren't the enemy and weren't always the abusers.

d8491prj5boyvg

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I am a feminist but I completely agree with you that Stay at home moms are scorned. The whole idea of feminism for me is about the choice to do as you want to and not be constrained by your sex. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I have some problems with feminism today, in particular the whole toxic masculinity thing and the excessive political correctness or whatever you want to call it.
Still a feminist though.

This is exactly what feminism means to me

d8491prj5boyvg

Calina wrote: »

as arguments go a lot of this is drivel. You are standing on the shoulders of the giants who made it possible to work and vote and have choices.

Women who work at home are not scorned. They are exploited by society. The cost of replacing their effort would be huge. Instead we A) dont ensure they are adequately paid for their effort b) their pension provisions are dire. Women are under served by health systems.
.

This would be de-gendered for the modern family. Housework is allocated among men women as the family decide, ideally. Is that exploitation? Am I being exploited because we decided that i do the dishes and change the nappies and he takes out the bins?

RIGOLO

Mohammed Witty Geometry wrote: »

This would be de-gendered for the modern family. Housework is allocated among men women as the family decide, ideally. Is that exploitation? Am I being exploited because we decided that i do the dishes and change the nappies and he takes out the bins?

I dont think either of you is being exploited.

But the feminazis with the permanent chips on their shoulder would probably say you are.

The problem with them is they would create a problem where there is no problem.

It sounds like 2 adults came to a mutually beneficial arrangement as to who does dishes and who does the bins, but if a modern feminist got involved theyd probably send you to a re-education camp and blame him for the colonisation of the horn of Africa.
When all either of you really want todo is sit down and watch a bit of Fair City after dinner and not have to worry about the bins or the washing up.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Wibbs wrote: »

I didn't. She set up women only shelters precisely because she wanted victims to feel safe.I used her example of how one narrative, feminism attempted and succeeded in hijacking the wider truth when it didn't suit their perpetual victimhood status. Indeed Her "crime" was to suggest men weren't the enemy and weren't always the abusers.

Sorry, I misread your post, phew.

Just in case anybody read it the way I did though

A) radical feminists didn't fight the inclusion of men victims shelters because it "didn't suit the narrative of women are always victims". Co-ed domestic abuse shelters are unworkable and dangerous.

the subsequent treatment of Erin Pizzey by the feminist establishment has been atrocious, the dire lack of shelters for male victims of domestic violence is appalling. But separate from A).

Women generally are much better at speaking and communicating than men are. Therefore an abused woman is likely to get much more traction than an abused man is.

One of my best friends talks about the "yellow cards" he gets from his wife and now his 13 year old daughter. For example going to the pub after work once in a blue moon would be a yellow card. Is this abuse? Many would say no. Mainstream feminism says no. If it was a man doing it to a woman it would absolutely be.

If you said anything it would be "ah it's only a joke" or whatever. But I can see it isn't a joke. To be honest I'd rather be punched in the face than this kind of treatment. Well I'd tell her where to shove her yellow card, but not all guys are like me

Wibbs

Ace Immense Starter wrote: »

Sorry, I misread your post, phew.

Indeed.

Deleted User wrote: »

Women generally are much better at speaking and communicating than men are.

Nope. Entirely down to the individual. This idea that women are better in these areas is a fallacy. As is the idea that women use more words per day. That was another lift from some self help book that gained traction in the wider consciousness. Studies show it to be false, both men and women are on average equal(though women tend to have more facility with new languages).

Where there is a difference is fewer men would talk about such things in general. That's where they could learn something alright.

One of my best friends talks about the "yellow cards" he gets from his wife and now his 13 year old daughter. For example going to the pub after work once in a blue moon would be a yellow card. Is this abuse? Many would say no. Mainstream feminism says no. If it was a man doing it to a woman it would absolutely be.

Call me old school or whatever, but in my humble that is his fault, certainly his responsibility in large part for not nipping that in the bud early on, or finding a different woman who didn't come out wit that stuff. He can't change someone else, he can change himself.

Secondly, no I wouldn't call it abuse. That's like some hysterical #metoo type calling sexual assault because a bloke looked at her chest on the bus. It's insulting to people who suffer genuine abuse. He needs to sack up on a few levels. Yep and I went there. Like I said we can't change others, but we can choose to change ourselves. Life rarely just "happens to us".

Thirdly there are always two sides to things. He's your friend so you will naturally take his side on things, but you're going to have little enough insight about what goes on behind their closed doors and the dynamic within. I've fallen into that trap myself. Where I took the side of a friend in his relationship issues, only to have the scales fall from my eyes when I took the time to look at it from her point of view. He was pretty passive aggressive with her. Low doses administered over time(which wasn't really like him tbh). As it turned out they split and they both went on to have much healthier setups with others. I have found some people, even otherwise nice people, can just rub each other up the wrong way and lust and love papers over that for a time.

Hedgelayer

Ace Immense Starter wrote: »

Erin Pizzey falling out with the wider feminist movement and gender segregated domestic abuse shelters are separate issues, I'm disappointed you'd conflate them Wibbs.

There should be more men's shelters. But saying not having men in women's shelters is because it doesn't suit the narrative that women are always victims is twisting things to push your own narrative about feminism. There aren't men in women's shelters because it leads to the women in them being targeted directly or by proxy by the partners they're fleeing from.

And as you acknowledge yourself, that's far more likely to be an actual life or death situation.

Pfft what an absolute contradictory of a post.

Are you trying to say by proxy men are going side with abusive men and infiltrate a shelter.

What an absolute oxymoronic observation.

Wibbs

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Pfft what an absolute contradictory of a post.

Are you trying to say by proxy men are going side with abusive men and infiltrate a shelter.

What an absolute oxymoronic observation.

Hardly. It's not exactly a stretch to consider that a woman feeling extremely vulnerable wouldn't be in fear of men in general, especially when the trauma was recent. People often become phobic around dogs after one dog bites them, this does not mean all, or even the vast majority of dogs are biters.

suicide_circus

whats the craic with transwomen in female shelters?

Blaizes

Op you mentioned the woman being scorned for being at home, my friends mother in law told my friend she was a kept woman and she should get back to work, seems she told the other daughter in law the same thing! But that can be a mother in law and daughter in law thing, the mother doesn’t want a son paying for the household, even though the wife is raising the kids and that is a job.
Well anyway maybe my example shows how women can be nasty to each other especially mother in laws to daughter in laws. So misogyny ( and I don’t even like that word) isn’t limited to men but women also.

Hedgelayer

Wibbs wrote: »

Hardly. It's not exactly a stretch to consider that a woman feeling extremely vulnerable wouldn't be in fear of men in general, especially when the trauma was recent. People often become phobic around dogs after one dog bites them, this does not mean all, or even the vast majority of dogs are biters.

That's true, but I didn't read where the poster said hypethically women would fear a negative impact where the shelters are shared.

And also she undermines the fact that these shelters would be managed and secured, I think there's two sides to that point.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

suicide_circus wrote: »

whats the craic with transwomen in female shelters?

It's about as contentious as you'd imagine, policies vary between jurisdictions and organisations.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed.




Call me old school or whatever, but in my humble that is his fault, certainly his responsibility in large part for not nipping that in the bud early on, or finding a different woman who didn't come out wit that stuff. He can't change someone else, he can change himself.

Secondly, no I wouldn't call it abuse. That's like some hysterical #metoo type calling sexual assault because a bloke looked at her chest on the bus. It's insulting to people who suffer genuine abuse. He needs to sack up on a few levels. Yep and I went there. Like I said we can't change others, but we can choose to change ourselves. Life rarely just "happens to us".

Would you say the same if he was a woman and she was a man and their son began treating the mother in the same way? For context she's Irish from a well to do family who all live close by. He isn't. Both are professionals.

If he stood up for himself you can see how easy it is to spin it as him being controlling, virtually impossible the other way round.

He could leave but they are married a long time.

I know them both very well and it isn't a case of him being passive aggressive, it's definitely a case of her way or the highway. She'd be a staunch feminist and looks down on stay at home mums. I'd basically class her as a bully. She is highly intelligent too.

To say he needs to "grow a pair" is really victim blaming, not all men (or women) have it in them to do this. It's still sh1t what she's doing.

The fact you got two thanks shows the whole thing is a sham, there are still different standards for men and women. Men still are judged by either 1950s or 2019 standards, depending which one is most advantageous to women. Women are judged by 2019 standards, which are all advantageous to them.