Why I am not a feminist and don't believe in 'equality'.

hatrickpatrick

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Jesus christ. Men bad women good. That's it exactly what we all think.

It's what a lot of the loudest and most prominent voices in the modern feminist movement think, and mainstream feminists are far, far too silent in their supposed opposition to that ideology. And whenever a debate starts up about it, it generally doesn't take too long for the mask to slip regarding generalisations about men being acceptable debating tactics.

Of course, that's just my own experience. But it's a pattern I've seen over and over again, including right here on Boards.

hatrickpatrick

@Gimme A Pound, Hedgelayer, and jam_mac_jam, the problem ios that a lot of feminists use this bait and switch thing there it's like "feminism only means supporting equality between the genders, so if you support equality you're a feminist - and if you're not a feminist, you don't support equality". What they don't tend to acknowledge is that feminism has expanded massively in the realm of cultural authoritarianism in recent years, so that being a feminist doesn't just mean believing in equality anymore and it's become totally disingenuous to suggest that this is still what it means in practise.

This meme did the rounds on Reddit last summer and I think sums it up pretty well:



A lot of vocal feminists with real access to the mainstream media (think Una Mullally, Louise O'Neil and their ilk) support the latter, ideologically oppressive, culturally authoritarian form of feminism - and attempt to vilify anyone who opposes this, as opposing equality. That's the disingenuous part. These authoritarian types have essentially hijacked the word "feminism" to represent their authoritarian bullsh!t, but they still use the classic "equality" definition to attack anyone who says they don't support it.

Hedgelayer

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's what a lot of the loudest and most prominent voices in the modern feminist movement think, and mainstream feminists are far, far too silent in their supposed opposition to that ideology. And whenever a debate starts up about it, it generally doesn't take too long for the mask to slip regarding generalisations about men being acceptable debating tactics.

Of course, that's just my own experience. But it's a pattern I've seen over and over again, including right here on Boards.

Well said.

If the femminists could debate without their nasty comments and rely on common sense rather than putting their emotions above their intellect, and look at both sides of the coin.

It would be a more reasonable debate, but they always drag it into the gutter until people just give up...

They don't give up because they're loosing it's because it goes around and around..

eviltwin

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Well said.

If the femminists could debate without their nasty comments and rely on common sense rather than putting their emotions above their intellect, and look at both sides of the coin.

It would be a more reasonable debate, but they always drag it into the gutter until people just give up...

They don't give up because they're loosing it's because it goes around and around..

Good advice. You should follow it yourself.

Silentcorner

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

@Gimme A Pound, Hedgelayer, and jam_mac_jam, the problem ios that a lot of feminists use this bait and switch thing there it's like "feminism only means supporting equality between the genders, so if you support equality you're a feminist - and if you're not a feminist, you don't support equality". What they don't tend to acknowledge is that feminism has expanded massively in the realm of cultural authoritarianism in recent years, so that being a feminist doesn't just mean believing in equality anymore and it's become totally disingenuous to suggest that this is still what it means in practise.

This meme did the rounds on Reddit last summer and I think sums it up pretty well:



A lot of vocal feminists with real access to the mainstream media (think Una Mullally, Louise O'Neil and their ilk) support the latter, ideologically oppressive, culturally authoritarian form of feminism - and attempt to vilify anyone who opposes this, as opposing equality. That's the disingenuous part. These authoritarian types have essentially hijacked the word "feminism" to represent their authoritarian bullsh!t, but they still use the classic "equality" definition to attack anyone who says they don't support it.

It's very hard to discern between this wave of feminism and radical feminism, a movement that was laced with some very unhinged individuals ...the language of radical feminism, the actions of radical feminism, the hard left ideology of radical feminists are all evident in todays feminism....

We have equal rights....that should be the end of it...instead, by a combination of mainstream media desperation, social media rabbit holes, we find ourselves in an age of hysteria...I believed the gender pay gap when it first emerged into the mainstream a few years ago, I completely misunderstood what was meant by Rape Culture, and I have no trust in media I should have known better.

We see feminists, emotionally buying into news stories from different countries in a manner that is unhealthy for them (ie Christine Blasey Ford), buying into the oppression narrative, life is too short and too tough to be living in that kind of state of mind!

Mad_maxx

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Great point there, but if some posters think that the people who don't agree with the femmimisn idealism are putting all the women in the same bracket as femminists, they have a serious problem.

I think 90% of women wouldn't class themselves as femminists,so you're safe enough guy's...

The op put up a post explaining why they're not a femminist and she had all sorts of assumptions about her character.

I in a few of my post's I suggested that the you hate all women card will be put out there because you don't like femmimisn will be pulled out frequently...

A rational person would ask the question "Is it femmimisn you don't like or is it women in particular ?"

A lot of the femminists in this debate cannot respond without any personal digs or accuse you of being angry etc

Very like social justice warriors......

That's exactly the kind of dopey rhetoric we've come to expect from progressive leftists

Dopey slogans about how you " hate women" unless you think exactly as they do

Bland minds

FixdePitchmark

Silentcorner wrote: »

It's very hard to discern between this wave of feminism and radical feminism, a movement that was laced with some very unhinged individuals ...the language of radical feminism, the actions of radical feminism, the hard left ideology of radical feminists are all evident in todays feminism....

We have equal rights....that should be the end of it...instead, by a combination of mainstream media desperation, social media rabbit holes, we find ourselves in an age of hysteria...I believed the gender pay gap when it first emerged into the mainstream a few years ago, I completely misunderstood what was meant by Rape Culture, and I have no trust in media I should have known better.

We see feminists, emotionally buying into news stories from different countries in a manner that is unhealthy for them (ie Christine Blasey Ford), buying into the oppression narrative, life is too short and too tough to be living in that kind of state of mind!

Isn't the expression "rape culture", one of the most offensive terms to have drifted into language in the last 20 years.

It is sick.

Silentcorner

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Isn't the expression "rape culture", one of the most offensive terms to have drifted into language in the last 20 years.

It is sick.

If I was living in a murder culture I'd never leave the house!

looksee

Is this thread making any sense at all or is it just a bunch of people each talking to him/herself?

Hedgelayer

eviltwin wrote: »

Good advice. You should follow it yourself.

I'm waiting for the second part to come out, although I think I prefer the book myself as it's a bit like femminism, you can draw your own conclusions as you read along and flick page by page...

Nice try though.

I wonder what way the non evil twin thinks, self portraits and all that...

Have a nice evening

Silentcorner

looksee wrote: »

Is this thread making any sense at all or is it just a bunch of people each talking to him/herself?

Anyone know where I can buy decent apples at this hour of the night?

Ah forget about it!

Hedgelayer

looksee wrote: »

Is this thread making any sense at all or is it just a bunch of people each talking to him/herself?

Well it's a debate about an ideology which doesn't make much sense...

I'm thinking I'll leave the pitch before the supporter's nab me and burn me at the stake

jam_mac_jam

Hedgelayer wrote: »

looksee wrote: »

Is this thread making any sense at all or is it just a bunch of people each talking to him/herself?

Well it's a debate about an ideology which doesn't make much sense...

I'm thinking I'll leave the pitch before the supporter's nab me and burn me at the stake

But nobody is actually attacking you?
Most people are against it in the thread you are putting words in people's mouths that they aren't saying

Hedgelayer

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

But nobody is actually attacking you?
Most people are against it in the thread you are putting words in people's mouths that they aren't saying

I had a few accuse of being anti women, a misogynistic gay man one called me.

I never said anything bad about women, I was mostly saying that femmimisn doesn't make sense and I think it's not good for women.

Gimme A Pound

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Great point there, but if some posters think that the people who don't agree with the femmimisn idealism are putting all the women in the same bracket as femminists, they have a serious problem.

I think 90% of women wouldn't class themselves as femminists,so you're safe enough guy's...

The op put up a post explaining why they're not a femminist and she had all sorts of assumptions about her character.

I in a few of my post's I suggested that the you hate all women card will be put out there because you don't like femmimisn will be pulled out frequently...

A rational person would ask the question "Is it femmimisn you don't like or is it women in particular ?"

A lot of the femminists in this debate cannot respond without any personal digs or accuse you of being angry etc

Very like social justice warriors......

No they're not. They're just annoyed by the relentless hostile comments towards them. They didn't start it.

I don't have time for today's feminism but there is a pronounced backlash against women in general online (this place is no exception) and non stop "women are above criticism - nobody would dare do so". Such bull. And absolutely resentful. Women get slated at times.

Hedgelayer

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

No they're not. They're just annoyed by the relentless hostile comments towards them. They didn't start it.

I don't have time for today's feminism but there is a pronounced backlash against women in general online (this place is no exception) and non stop "women are above criticism - nobody would dare do so". Such bull. And absolutely resentful. Women get slated at times.

Ok point taken, are you a man or a woman ?

Gimme A Pound

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Well it's a debate about an ideology which doesn't make much sense...

I'm thinking I'll leave the pitch before the supporter's nab me and burn me at the stake

What on earth are you on about? Here you are writing post after post freely yet you're going on about being censured for some reason. And posting provocative comments first but acting as though it's unreasonable to criticise these provocative comments. And it's not simply because you disagree. I am a critic of feminism as it is now and I don't get an even slightly hostile reaction.

Gimme A Pound

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Ok point taken, are you a man or a woman ?

Woman.

Hedgelayer

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

What on earth are you on about? Here you are writing post after post freely yet you're going on about being censured for some reason. And posting provocative comments first but acting as though it's unreasonable to criticise these provocative comments. And it's not simply because you disagree. I am a critic of feminism as it is now and I don't get an even slightly hostile reaction.

Where's my provocative comments ?

I never went on about me being censured either, this is why it's so hard to have a discussion.
Posters like yourself coming up with all kinds of Bell's and whistles....

eviltwin

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Where's my provocative comments ?

I never went on about me being censured either, this is why it's so hard to have a discussion.
Posters like yourself coming up with all kinds of Bell's and whistles....

You're just soap boxing now and have pretty much destroyed what started out as a fairly decent thread.

jam_mac_jam

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

@Gimme A Pound, Hedgelayer, and jam_mac_jam, the problem ios that a lot of feminists use this bait and switch thing there it's like "feminism only means supporting equality between the genders, so if you support equality you're a feminist - and if you're not a feminist, you don't support equality". What they don't tend to acknowledge is that feminism has expanded massively in the realm of cultural authoritarianism in recent years, so that being a feminist doesn't just mean believing in equality anymore and it's become totally disingenuous to suggest that this is still what it means in practise.

This meme did the rounds on Reddit last summer and I think sums it up pretty well:



A lot of vocal feminists with real access to the mainstream media (think Una Mullally, Louise O'Neil and their ilk) support the latter, ideologically oppressive, culturally authoritarian form of feminism - and attempt to vilify anyone who opposes this, as opposing equality. That's the disingenuous part. These authoritarian types have essentially hijacked the word "feminism" to represent their authoritarian bullsh!t, but they still use the classic "equality" definition to attack anyone who says they don't support it.

I agree with that analysis and it's such a broad spectrum now that it's easy to see why there is a backlash. I feel like I believe the same as i always did about the issues and get suddenly it's all moved and I am now centrist or right wing in some of my opinions.

For me there should be more focus on countries and cultures which are more oppressed or on working class issues instead of earnings parity for rich actresses or manspreading or other irrelevant bull****.

I still would call myself a feminist despite the issues i have with feminism as rights can be taken away and are not absolute, but yes there are huge problems with the movement. In particular the victimisation of people because they are a man who happens to be white. Is that not exactly the same as what was done to women.

Can I have the equality part?

Silentcorner

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

No they're not. They're just annoyed by the relentless hostile comments towards them. They didn't start it.

I don't have time for today's feminism but there is a pronounced backlash against women in general online (this place is no exception) and non stop "women are above criticism - nobody would dare do so". Such bull. And absolutely resentful. Women get slated at times.

Can you show me the female equivalent of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/ce-corner

We have witnessed in the last few years some of the worst bigotry I have ever seen in media...I can honestly say, having huge sympathy for what some women were subjected to by institutions of this state if women today were being subjected to what boys and young men are currently being subjected to I'd be just as critical as I am of feminism...they face a hostile media, a hostile education system, a health system that doesn't care about them, increasingly hostile University campuses and now hostile work environments all for the perceived sins of white men from decades ago!...is there any surprise there is a backlash!

jam_mac_jam

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Where's my provocative comments ?

I never went on about me being censured either, this is why it's so hard to have a discussion.
Posters like yourself coming up with all kinds of Bell's and whistles....

Every second comment you make is about how you can't say anything and oh look at how emotional they are where really nobody is saying anything remotely like that.

Oh don't say that those silly feminists will go mad. When they arent. You are just putting words in people's mouths. Most here on both sides have been polite and reasonable and focusing on options and various points rather than the people.

Gimme A Pound

Silentcorner wrote: »

Can you show me the female equivalent of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/ce-corner

We have witnessed in the last few years some of the worst bigotry I have ever seen in media...I can honestly say, having huge sympathy for what some women were subjected to by institutions of this state if women today were being subjected to what boys and young men are currently being subjected to I'd be just as critical as I am of feminism...they face a hostile media, a hostile education system, a health system that doesn't care about them, increasingly hostile University campuses and now hostile work environments all for the perceived sins of white men from decades ago!...is there any surprise there is a backlash!

Posting the first two links doesn't change what I said about women getting slated. I'm not disputing all you say regarding men and boys, and yes of course it makes sense that there would be a backlash against feminism, including by myself. That's not what I'm talking about though - I'm talking about a backlash just against women.

Hedgelayer

eviltwin wrote: »

You're just soap boxing now and have pretty much destroyed what started out as a fairly decent thread.

Ok no problem, I'll walk away from the thread if I've destroyed it.

My apologies for offending the whole lot of ye..

Best regards with the thread...

Gimme A Pound

"You can't say anything."

/proceeds to keep saying anything

jam_mac_jam

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Ok no problem, I'll walk away from the thread if I've destroyed it.

My apologies for offending the whole lot of ye..

Best regards with the thread...

It's not offensive, it's irritating as you are derailing an interesting discussion.

Gimme A Pound

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Ok no problem, I'll walk away from the thread if I've destroyed it.

My apologies for offending the whole lot of ye..

Best regards with the thread...

I would say don't walk away, don't apologise - just engage without the pot shot throwing.

Hedgelayer

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

It's not offensive, it's irritating as you are derailing an interesting discussion.

Well I'm leaving now, you're all on track again to go on a progressive direction, so I'm derailing my carriage and giving you all the ability to have a discussion without me interfering with it and upsetting the apple cart.

I have no problem with walking away, I will just observe and learn from now.

Watch the train go by

Silentcorner

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Posting the first two links doesn't change what I said about women getting slated. I'm not disputing all you say regarding men and boys, and yes of course it makes sense that there would be a backlash against feminism, including by myself. That's not what I'm talking about though - I'm talking about a backlash just against women.

OK, fair enough.

I was trying to point out that the backlash women are facing online is a consequence of the backlash men are facing across media and politics in the developed world...nobody is winning in these circumstances if you ask me!