Why I am not a feminist and don't believe in 'equality'.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

We are better and worse at some things???

Oh don't worry nothing is making a comeback. I am entirely original and no one agrees with me.

To be honest I value women more. I think our personality traits (as I see them ) have more value in the world.

Compassion is what builds world peace.

Men just do war.

Really? Is there not space for the traits of women and men to complement and live alongside each other? I certainly don't see one gender as being better than the other.

ILoveYourVibes

meeeeh wrote: »

Could you clear up something else for me? Is troll thread still a troll thread if op contributes about 75% of posts? Or is it just attention seeking?

Not trolling at all.

I didn't THINK CONSCIOUSLY it was attention seeking. But if you see it as such there must be some truth to that i was unaware of.

I would say undermining my views through calling me a troll isn't ..really fair to me.

But its your genuine opinion and i just have to respect that.

Hedgelayer

And another thing is have you seen or heard all the adverts lately on the radio portraying how thick men are and how only women have the answer....

Some guy with a thick accent being undermined by a lady with a post southside accent...

You don't see the men bouncing off the walls.
But if the shoe was on the other foot there would be outraged....

Fizzlesque

Silentcorner wrote: »

When I was growing up in the 80s there was and still is a nasty belief that girls are smarter than boys, this was repeated to my class over the years, it is a horrible thing to be telling young boys...or that girls mature faster than boys...which is ridiculous, boys mature differently than girls, like girls capabilities are different to boys...

I have never seen a more repugnant message that what our young men are receiving these days...

Your school shouldn't have been telling boys they weren't as smart as girls. Neither gender should be undermining the other.

Silentcorner

Fizzlesque wrote: »

Your school shouldn't have been telling boys they weren't as smart as girls. Neither gender should be undermining the other.

Do you think it was just my school?

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? Is there not space for the traits of women and men to complement and live alongside each other?

I don't know if it's ever been achieved in harmony yet. But yes I hope so.

joe40

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

True.

I am not excluding other genders.

However (and you don't have to agree with it) i do think there are some basic truths about feminine and masculine traits for most people not all maybe.


That is just life experience.

In your opening post you seem to be espousing a return to traditional gender norms. i.e teach feminine traits to girls.

Those defined traits were a strait jacket for many people. Not all men are competitive or aggressive. Plenty succeed quite well by seeking out consensus, building alliances.
Not all women are stay at home domestic types. Some Women are extremely competitive.
That does not mean they are artificially taking on male traits they are simply expressing their own personality. Modern society allows them to do so.
Previous generations of women did not get the chance.

The womens world cup will not match the mens game for popularity, but it is a million miles further on than 20 years ago.
I have watched a few games, the competitiveness and intensity would easily match the men's game.

Likewise previous generations of men did not get the opportunity to really engage with the rearing of their kids. Sometimes just there for discipline. Men missed out on so much.

Both genders owe a debt to feminism, I wouldn't be too quick to knock it

Dial Hard

looksee wrote: »

RIP the English language. This is what happens when everyone feels free to use words to mean what they want them to mean. And when students are not permitted to engage in proper debate in University in case someone might be offended.

Indeed. One extremely incensed contributor to the thread can't even spell the word in question.

ILoveYourVibes

Hedgelayer wrote: »

And another thing is have you seen or heard all the adverts lately on the radio portraying how thick men are and how only women have the answer....

Some guy with a thick accent being undermined by a lady with a post southside accent...

You don't see the men bouncing off the walls.
But if the shoe was on the other foot there would be outraged....

I had not noticed. I will look out for it though and give it a feel.

SusieBlue

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Exactly, and when you say femmimisn undermines women you're right.
I know a few recovering femminists and they look back at how their version of third wave feminism ruined their chance's of having a loving relationship and they woke up to the fact that femmimisn is another movement like religion or socialism.

Is there a such thing as a moderate femminst ?

Most straight guy's I know run a mile from femminists, unless they're cucks.

Thats another story

It sounds like you just have a problem with women in general, being honest.

Dial Hard

Hedgelayer wrote: »

And another thing is have you seen or heard all the adverts lately on the radio portraying how thick men are and how only women have the answer....

Some guy with a thick accent being undermined by a lady with a post southside accent...

You don't see the men bouncing off the walls.
But if the shoe was on the other foot there would be outraged....

I dunno, you seem pretty outraged to me.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't know if it's ever been achieved in harmony yet. But yes I hope so.

You believe female traits (whatever they are) have more value than male traits (again ?)
Can you explain what you think those traits are and why some are better than others?

Silentcorner

SusieBlue wrote: »

It sounds like you just have a problem with women in general, being honest.

Actually he sounds like he has a problem with feminists, there is a difference...but see what you want to see...

Fizzlesque

Silentcorner wrote: »

Do you think it was just my school?

To be honest, I think you're trying to undermine my experience as described in my post and I have no wish to get into a pointless "we had it worse than you" back and forth with you.

Gimme A Pound

Jaysus. All over the shop.

Anyway, hardly anyone in the real world scorns stay at home mums or femininity. The latter is the preference overall.

And you'd swear women can only be either a butch aggressive type or a little fairy like creature. As if there isn't miles in between. Like you can't be strong and vulnerable, like you can't be independent yet girlie.

I'm not a feminist now either and yes men and women are different, but I'm darn glad of the earlier feminists.

SusieBlue

Silentcorner wrote: »

Actually he sounds like he has a problem with feminists, there is a difference...but see what you want to see...

He doesn't even seem to know what a feminist is, so I'll have to disagree with you there.

He seems to equate any horrible woman he meets (which isn't gender specific, men can be horrible too) with being a feminist.

LittleMissLogic

Calina wrote: »

as arguments go a lot of this is drivel. You are standing on the shoulders of the giants who made it possible to work and vote and have choices.

Women who work at home are not scorned. They are exploited by society. The cost of replacing their effort would be huge. Instead we A) dont ensure they are adequately paid for their effort b) their pension provisions are dire. Women are under served by health systems.

Young women who claim not to be feminists are free to declare so. But the beauty of their lives compared to their mothers and grandmothers is owed to women who a) had a lot more guts than they do and b) who are feminists.

I think I love you.

Silentcorner

Fizzlesque wrote: »

To be honest, I think you're trying to undermine my experience as described in my post and I have no wish to get into a pointless "we had it worse than you" back and forth with you.

Actually I am trying to demonstrate that both genders don't have it easy...sorry for undermining your victimhood!

LittleMissLogic

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Jaysus. All over the shop.

Anyway, hardly anyone in the real world scorns stay at home mums or femininity. The latter is the preference overall.

And you'd swear women can only be either a butch aggressive type or a little fairy like creature. As if there isn't miles in between. Like you can't be strong and vulnerable, like you can't be independent yet girlie.

I'm not a feminist now either and yes men and women are different, but I'm darn glad of the earlier feminists.

And why are you not a feminist?

ILoveYourVibes

joe40 wrote: »

In your opening post you seem to be espousing a return to traditional gender norms. i.e teach feminine traits to girls.

Those defined traits were a strait jacket for many people. Not all men are competitive or aggressive. Plenty succeed quite well by seeking out consensus, building alliances.
Not all women are stay at home domestic types. Some Women are extremely competitive.
That does not mean they are artificially taking on male traits they are simply expressing their own personality. Modern society allows them to do so.
Previous generations of women did not get the chance.

The womens world cup will not match the mens game for popularity, but it is a million miles further on than 20 years ago.
I have watched a few games, the competitiveness and intensity would easily match the men's game.

Likewise previous generations of men did not get the opportunity to really engage with the rearing of their kids. Sometimes just there for discipline. Men missed out on so much.

Both genders owe a debt to feminism, I wouldn't be too quick to knock it

We owe nothing to feminism. It wasn't the reason for change.

Lets face it if it started in the 1700's and middle class women really only started working in the 1960s that is not feminism. That is technological changes and capitalism.
I wouldn't credit feminism with that.

I don't agree with the first part of what you said.

Nor do i think it's a good thing.

Imagine a society with zero nurturing etc. ??

I don't think men will become more feminine.

jimgoose

LittleMissLogic wrote: »

And why are you not a feminist?

Is that MEAT??!!?? :pac:

Gimme A Pound

Hedgelayer wrote: »

And another thing is have you seen or heard all the adverts lately on the radio portraying how thick men are and how only women have the answer....

Some guy with a thick accent being undermined by a lady with a post southside accent...

You don't see the men bouncing off the walls.
But if the shoe was on the other foot there would be outraged....

Not a new thing at all - yes it has been noticed. It's woeful.

You should check out Iloveyourvibes' comments about men such as "they only do war". Not "on your side" like you think she is.

Silentcorner

SusieBlue wrote: »

He doesn't even seem to know what a feminist is, so I'll have to disagree with you there.

He seems to equate any horrible woman he meets (which isn't gender specific, men can be horrible too) with being a feminist.

Nobody seems to know what a feminist is these days...about from an obscure "equality"agenda, that is completely one sided.

ZilkyG

I think like most sane people, you're completely alienated by modern feminism, which was hijacked by upper-middle class American college students. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you choose to bestow a stupid label on yourself, the majority of people here support the same thing; freedom to live life as you see fit.

Gimme A Pound

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

We owe nothing to feminism. It wasn't the reason for change.

Lets face it if it started in the 1700's and middle class women really only started working in the 1960s that is not feminism. That is technological changes and capitalism.
I wouldn't credit feminism with that.

I don't agree with the first part of what you said.

Nor do i think it's a good thing.

Imagine a society with zero nurturing etc. ??

I don't think men will become more feminine.

Whether you like it or not, the Suffragettes' ideology was feminist ideology.

And thank heavens for those women.

Dial Hard

Silentcorner wrote: »

Nobody seems to know what a feminist is these days...about from an obscure "equality"agenda, that is completely one sided.

Nonsense. Allow me to explain it to you: feminism is the belief that women should be treated equally to men. No better, no worse. It really is that simple.

Silentcorner

ZilkyG wrote: »

I think like most sane people, you're completely alienated by modern feminism, which was hijacked by upper-middle class American college students. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you choose to bestow a stupid label on yourself, the majority of people here support the same thing; freedom to live life as you see fit.

Perfectly well said, throw in an all pervasive media narrative and social media rabbit holes and bingo...

Fizzlesque

Silentcorner wrote: »

Actually I am trying to demonstrate that both genders don't have it easy...sorry for undermining your victimhood!

I don't believe you were trying to demonstrate that both genders don't have it easy.

Your last little snipe at the end of your post suggests otherwise.

Goodbye, we have nothing more to discuss.

Silentcorner

Dial Hard wrote: »

Nonsense. Allow me to explain it to you: feminism is the belief that women should be treated equally to men. No better, no worse. It really is that simple.

And nobody would argue that...what rights do Irish men have that Irish women don't and I'll sign up right now!

Blaizes

joe40 wrote: »

With all due respect I couldn't disagree more. Ireland becoming less kind as a society? I was a teenager in the 80s modern society is much kinder and much more tolerant.

I have a 13 year old son and a 15 year old daughter. I didn't need to teach masculine or feminine traits kids find their own personality, we just try not to f*ck them up too much.

My son is into football my daughter loves Ballet. All nice and gender confomative, the thing the work, exercise, skill and determination she puts into her ballet is multiples of what my son puts into his football.

It is great to hear you have well adjusted happy children and obviously you are a good parent but looking collectively at Irish society now in comparison to years ago it is difficult to see how we are kinder especially when you look at crime levels, something is making people less kind to each other and more aggressive, my two cents anyway.

Gimme A Pound

LittleMissLogic wrote: »

And why are you not a feminist?

Not a fan of today's feminism. It's hugely divisive and causing steps backward. It does demonise men and make women out to be victims with no agency.

Silentcorner

Fizzlesque wrote: »

I don't believe you were trying to demonstrate that both genders don't have it easy.

Your last little snipe at the end of your post suggests otherwise.

Goodbye, we have nothing more to discuss.

I was clearly demonstrating that both genders don't have it easy, compare leaving cert results over the last 40 years if you don't believe me...bury your head in the sand all you like...

RIGOLO

OP .. big mistake .. you have expressed an opinion contrary to the totalitarian left SJW progressive liberal feminazi all men are bad viewpoint ,

If this were China you would be off to a re-education camp, and at the rate things are going you probably would be ousted from your job, kicked off social media, pilloried in the mainstream media were you to be a public figure whos name was revealed, such is the toxic environment that the identiyy politics of the left have created.

It was very brave of you to step outside your tribe and express some INDIVIDUAL idealogical opinions. Your not alone in what you think.

But you must prepare to feel the wrath of those you have offended, they will trawl you thru the mud for daring to impinge upon the sisterhood .

Hedgelayer

SusieBlue wrote: »

It sounds like you just have a problem with women in general, being honest.

Thats a cop out, getting a dig in like that.
That's a typical feminist response or should I say reaction.

You're getting emotive and insulting rather than responding.

That's what femmimisn is about, react rather than response....

Maybe you could have said something less personal about my ability to appreciate women.

ILoveYourVibes

wrote: »

Originally Posted by Calina
as arguments go a lot of this is drivel. You are standing on the shoulders of the giants who made it possible to work and vote and have choices.

Women who work at home are not scorned. They are exploited by society. The cost of replacing their effort would be huge. Instead we A) dont ensure they are adequately paid for their effort b) their pension provisions are dire. Women are under served by health systems.

Young women who claim not to be feminists are free to declare so. But the beauty of their lives compared to their mothers and grandmothers is owed to women who a) had a lot more guts than they do and b) who are feminists.

calling something drivel is not an argument.

Women who don't work outside of the home are certainly scorned. Why on earth would we exploit them if we don't scorn them??

The beauty of my life is owed by me to my parents. Science doctors etc technological advancement.

This is WHAT I HATE....the ABOSOLUTE LIE that everything women have today is as a result of feminism.


Very little of that is true. It might be somewhat true. But reproductive rights just HAPPENED to spring along the mainstream along with the BIRTH CONTROL PILL and CONDOMS.

I mean feminists never even THOUGHT about campaigning for pain relief during pregnancy labors . It just so happened it was discovered.

No feminists have not really achieved a lot for me. In fact i am rather unimpressed with their lot. And i think if a lot of them were around today they would feel the same.

Yes the vote I give you that.

Hedgelayer

RIGOLO wrote: »

OP .. big mistake .. you have expressed an opinion contrary to the totalitarian left SJW progressive liberal feminazi all men are bad viewpoint ,

If this were China you would be off to a re-education camp, and at the rate things are going you probably would be ousted from your job, kicked off social media, pilloried in the mainstream media were you to be a public figure whos name was revealed, such is the toxic environment that the identiyy politics of the left have created.

It was very brave of you to step outside your tribe and express some INDIVIDUAL idealogical opinions. Your not alone in what you think.

But you must prepare to feel the wrath of those you have offended, they will trawl you thru the mud for daring to impinge upon the sisterhood .

I can hear the sound track of the sith Darth Sidious looming in the background....

ILoveYourVibes

Blaizes wrote: »

It is great to hear you have well adjusted happy children and obviously you are a good parent but looking collectively at Irish society now in comparison to years ago it is difficult to see how we are kinder especially when you look at crime levels, something is making people less kind to each other and more aggressive, my two cents anyway.

I agree.

I understand particularly for some people yesteryear was not kind. And lets be aware for that. But I agree with you.

ILoveYourVibes

Hedgelayer wrote: »

I can hear the sound track of the sith Darth Sidious looming in the background....

He don't scare me.

And I dont have a problem with ...people who are on the left or right.

I take people as i find them.

And no one has been totally horrible to me or anything...so don't worry.

And the left don't have it easy either.

We should all just get along.

RIGOLO

Calina wrote: »

as arguments go a lot of this is drivel. You are standing on the shoulders of the giants who made it possible to work and vote and have choices.

Women who work at home are not scorned. They are exploited by society. The cost of replacing their effort would be huge. Instead we A) dont ensure they are adequately paid for their effort b) their pension provisions are dire. Women are under served by health systems.

Young women who claim not to be feminists are free to declare so. But the beauty of their lives compared to their mothers and grandmothers is owed to women who a) had a lot more guts than they do and b) who are feminists.

Great to see you acknowledge the great men of bygone eras...
men like John Stuart Mill, Henry Hunt, and even dare say Boris Johnsons Conservative Party and its remarkable Primrose League .

SusieBlue

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Thats a cop out, getting a dig in like that.
That's a typical feminist response or should I say reaction.

You're getting emotive and insulting rather than responding.

That's what femmimisn is about, react rather than response....

Maybe you could have said something less personal about my ability to appreciate women.

You may want to look inwardly before you go making any accusations about being personal and emotive.

You appear to have very little knowledge or understanding as to what feminism even stands for or is about.

ILoveYourVibes

RIGOLO wrote: »

Great to see you acknowledge the great men of bygone eras...
men like John Stuart Mill, Henry Hunt, and even dare say Boris Johnsons Conservative Party and its remarkable Primrose League .

I like John stuart mill.

Ultimate Happiness AWESOME!

Hedgelayer

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He don't scare me.

And I dont have a problem with ...people who are on the left or right.

I take people as i find them.

And no one has been totally horrible to me or anything...so don't worry.

And the left don't have it easy either.

We should all just get along.

We should all get along, but according to femminists men should be femminists too.

Which is ludicrous and non productive.

ILoveYourVibes

SusieBlue wrote: »

You may want to look inwardly before you go making any accusations about being personal and emotive.

You appear to have very little knowledge or understanding as to what feminism even stands for or is about.

Its so vague though these days.

ZilkyG

SusieBlue wrote: »

You may want to look inwardly before you go making any accusations about being personal and emotive.

You appear to have very little knowledge or understanding as to what feminism even stands for or is about.

And you have very little knowledge about what feminism has become, which is why people are turning away from it. It's unbelievable that you think it's a one size fits all label.

Hedgelayer

SusieBlue wrote: »

You may want to look inwardly before you go making any accusations about being personal and emotive.

You appear to have very little knowledge or understanding as to what feminism even stands for or is about.

Ok I'm open to be educated.

In a few sentences can you explain in laypersons terms, what's a femminist ?

ILoveYourVibes

Hedgelayer wrote: »

We should all get along, but according to femminists men should be femminists too.

Which is ludicrous and non productive.

Well I think the feminists and non feminists should get along..

ILoveYourVibes

I wish I was MORE feminine. I wish i was more loving more patient. I wish i was LESS ARGUMENTATIVE and less competitive.

Glass fused light

Fizzlesque wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this part of your post please?

Perhaps I am reading you incorrectly but when I was growing up in the seventies and eighties, a nasty concept pervaded many parts of women's lives and that concept was that women are not equal to men because they were not as capable as men.

When someone says they don't believe men and women aren't equal, what I hear is that they believe men are superior - which leaves women the unenviable spot of being inferior.

To me, being equal does not mean being identical. We don't have to be the same to be equal.

It took me many years to learn that I am every bit as capable as the four brothers I grew up with. We are not the same in lots of way, but we are absolutely equal. I didn't even have to forfeit my femininity and kindness in the process of that self-discovery. And I thank the feminists that went before me for the hard graft they put in to change that nasty state of affairs that existed for women in the early days of their fight.


I hope I misunderstood you and that horrible old outlook isn't making a comeback.

Oh it is.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

True.

I am not excluding other genders.

However (and you don't have to agree with it) i do think there are some basic truths about feminine and masculine traits for most people not all maybe.


That is just life experience.

Look at the bullsh*t of the I am a woman cas I feel like one said the male with the beard and penis.
http://https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=argNVR5HVgE

http://https://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/this-transgender-woman-has-a-full-beard-and-she-couldnt-be-h?utm_term=.vmVW7vpOW#.guLN2xPkN
Lucky for women Alex Drummond is expanding the bandwidth of what is is to be a woman and "certainly I draw out the inner lesbian in women!".

Born male, socialised male but it's the women who need the extra bandwidth to find that they can check the oil in their cars.
PS ladies and gents, degloving injuries are why it's not a good idea to wear jewlery around moving parts.

Gimme A Pound

RIGOLO wrote: »

OP .. big mistake .. you have expressed an opinion contrary to the totalitarian left SJW progressive liberal feminazi all men are bad viewpoint ,

If this were China you would be off to a re-education camp, and at the rate things are going you probably would be ousted from your job, kicked off social media, pilloried in the mainstream media were you to be a public figure whos name was revealed, such is the toxic environment that the identiyy politics of the left have created.

It was very brave of you to step outside your tribe and express some INDIVIDUAL idealogical opinions. Your not alone in what you think.

But you must prepare to feel the wrath of those you have offended, they will trawl you thru the mud for daring to impinge upon the sisterhood .

You'd love the above to be the reaction but I'm afraid you're incorrect. You'd see this too if you actually read the responses.

The responses are mostly just "wtf are you on about" to posts that are all over the place and contradictory.

And the only person posting anything near "All men are bad" is the OP herself.

Calina

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

calling something drivel is not an argument.

Women who don't work outside of the home are certainly scorned. Why on earth would we exploit them if we don't scorn them??

The beauty of my life is owed by me to my parents. Science doctors etc technological advancement.

This is WHAT I HATE....the ABOSOLUTE LIE that everything women have today is as a result of feminism.


Very little of that is true. It might be somewhat true. But reproductive rights just HAPPENED to spring along the mainstream along with the BIRTH CONTROL PILL and CONDOMS.

I mean feminists never even THOUGHT about campaigning for pain relief during pregnancy labors . It just so happened it was discovered.

No feminists have not really achieved a lot for me. In fact i am rather unimpressed with their lot. And i think if a lot of them were around today they would feel the same.

Yes the vote I give you that.

I am away from a keyboard atm but are you familiar with the marriage bar, equal pay, the single mother homes? When women got the right to do stuff like have bank accounts without getting their husband's permission?

Women's contributions to the world are undervalued. This is why traditionally feminine jobs are paid less and why even in jobs done by both men and women, women often still earn less. It is why stay at home mothers, and parents are systematically undervalued and their contribution at most receives lip service. There is little to no economic recognition for the value of the hand that rocks the cradle.

And the sad part is you don't appear to understand how privileged you are compared to generations before you.