Why I am not a feminist and don't believe in 'equality'.

mariaalice

I am curious what dose the op actually thinks feminism is?

eviltwin

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

True.

But at the same time it's a privileged woman who can say she IS a feminist too.

I mean for a woman who is just a refugee ...with no home no food no water ...it's the last thing on her mind.

I remember M.I.A saying as much in her OXFORD address.

Feminism can be a luxury.

Totally agree. It's what you do with it that counts. I have no time for feminists that complain about things like manspreading on trains or pink biros but at the same time a part of me thinks its great that they only have trivial crap to bother them if that makes sense?

I'm definitely part of the generation that benefited from feminism and I'm grateful and proud of those women who made my quality of life today possible. I'm also very aware that even in our very equal society there are pockets where women are still very much second class citizens and don't have the means to be empowered to fight it and that its up to the rest of us to stand with them.

It's also important we remember that our rights are not absolute and never to take them for granted.

Calina

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

.

1990
Was it like that in reality though ?? No.

Yes

ILoveYourVibes

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Wealthy women studied long before that.

And they were the feminists because they were not worried about where their next meal was coming from.

ILoveYourVibes

Calina wrote: »

Yes

That is just not true. Not according to my mother anyway.

And i think she is IS a feminist.

ILoveYourVibes

mariaalice wrote: »

I am curious what dose the op actually thinks feminism is?

It's simone de beauvoir in public and simone de beauvoir in private.

ILoveYourVibes

eviltwin wrote: »

Totally agree. It's what you do with it that counts. I have no time for feminists that complain about things like manspreading on trains or pink biros but at the same time a part of me thinks its great that they only have trivial crap to bother them if that makes sense?

I'm definitely part of the generation that benefited from feminism and I'm grateful and proud of those women who made my quality of life today possible. I'm also very aware that even in our very equal society there are pockets where women are still very much second class citizens and don't have the means to be empowered to fight it and that its up to the rest of us to stand with them.

It's also important we remember that our rights are not absolute and never to take them for granted.

I guess we gotta be humble.

Airyfairy12

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And they were the feminists because they were not worried about where their next meal was coming from.

The women who worried about where their next meal was coming from were the same women who fought for their right to work and vote, they also fought for childcare and laws which ended a husbands right to abuse his wife.

ILoveYourVibes

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

The women who worried about where their next meal was coming from were the same women who fought for their right to work and vote, they also fought for childcare and laws which ended a husbands right to abuse his wife.

Working class suffragettes were the minority and almost forgotten after.

And they still had the same worries after.

You don't realize HOW divided by class we were in the past.

My grandmother could not have gone to the same meetings as some other women.

Not to mention firstly how she was going to GET there.

Working class women were often used for violent protests ..but they could not afford the bail.

Upper class women were released much more quickly.

Also not to mention my grandmother was jewish.

Class inequality is just some a lot of feminists don't understand.

Also when wealthy women got the vote ..working class women and working class men didnt.

It took a decade LATER to give the vote to working class women.

The Exclusion of Working-class Women from the 1918 Representation of the People Act until a full ten years later.

Working class men couldn't even vote then.

mariaalice

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And they were the feminists because they were not worried about where their next meal was coming from.

Historically there have been tones of working-class feminists.

eviltwin

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That is just not true. Not according to my mother anyway.

And i think she is IS a feminist.

I'm unsure as to what you are disputing. That marital rape was legal pre 1990 or that it happened? It did happen and it still does happen to this day.

mariaalice

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Working class suffragettes were the minority and almost forgotten after.

And they still had the same worries after.

You don't realize HOW divided by class we were in the past.

My grandmother could not have gone to the same meetings as some other women.

Not to mention firstly how she was going to GET there.

Working class women were often used for violent protests ..but they could not afford the bail.

Upper class women were released much more quickly.

Also not to mention my grandmother was jewish.

That is a class issue and would have been the same for men.

Wibbs

Hedgelayer wrote: »

If you're competitive never go flyfishing with one because hand's down women are the elitist stealthiest hunters knowb to man, they can drop a dry fly on the nose of a trout,and strike it like a Pro....

Women do figure quite high up in the record books for salmon on the fly, to the degree that some reckoned it was down to pheromones and some of their wives got a shock when they approached their pubic area with a clippers for material for making salmon flies... What observations have been made seem to show more patience and more likely to listen to the advice of the local gillie in how to approach a lie. They're also more likely to listen to casting instructors so can pick that up faster.

Fly fishing in general? While there are of course extremely proficient women who practice the sport, on average men are better and for measurable reasons. On average men have better spatial acuity and hand eye coordination, they're even better at spotting movement straight ahead(women are better at spotting peripheral movement and have better colour vision). Take a tin can and place it ten metres away and get a hundred men and a hundred women to throw a rock at it. Far more men will hit it than women.

TL;DR? It can be down to an individual, but generally no.

Wibbs

mariaalice wrote: »

That is a class issue and would have been the same for men.

Indeed M and it's all too often forgotten that working class men got the vote only slightly before, or at the same time as working class women. Class was a huge part of it. The common man was a tool of industry and a bullet stopper, the common woman a baby maker of tools of industry and bullet stoppers and more baby makers.

Glass fused light

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It could be interpreted as mean. It's also patronizing. But then it's your opinion.

It wouldn't cost you anything to change the tone.

But then that is just the way you express yourself i suppose. Its how you are. I will try to accept it.

You are a difficult person to talk to without getting into an argument if you don't mind my saying. Its difficult to talk casually with you ...well for me right now anyhow.

I suppose i am not the easiest to get on with from your point of view right now etc.

If you want to come out with an ideological position be prepared to defend it.
Fluttering your eyelashes and affect the helpless little old me works in real life.
Problem is that it depends on a specific social context. It needs visual data to work.

If you want to argue that the rights you enjoyed of sitting in an institution of higher education just happened, you disregard the first women through the doors sitting in a space where society said they had no right to be.

I don't need to get on with you or anyone, I don't need to accept your rhetoric about feminism or that being blunt and questioning your knowledge is being mean.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

1990
Was it like that in reality though ?? No.

Was what the reality, that a woman could be raped by her husband and nothing was done. Yes it was exactly like that.

That's why the legistation was put in place.

Or that it's only been 30 years?

ILoveYourVibes

Glass fused light wrote: »

If you want to come out with an ideological position be prepared to defend it.
Fluttering your eyelashes and affect the helpless little old me works in real life.
Problem is that it depends on a specific social context. It needs visual data to work.

If you want to argue that the rights you enjoyed of sitting in an institution of higher education just happened, you disregard the first women through the doors sitting in a space where society said they had no right to be.

I don't need to get on with you or anyone, I don't need to accept your rhetoric about feminism or that being blunt and questioning your knowledge is being mean.




Was what the reality, that a woman could be raped by her husband and nothing was done. Yes it was exactly like that.

That's why the legistation was put in place.

Or that it's only been 30 years?

I am sorry but you just sound extreme.

ILoveYourVibes

mariaalice wrote: »

Historically there have been tones of working-class feminists.

Not true comparatively.

The Exclusion of Working-class Women from the 1918 Representation of the People Actmany working-class women continue to be denied citizenship until 1928

Ten years after women supposedly got the vote it was extended to working class women ..and at the same time working class men.





And working class women are not treated fairly in the movement.

ILoveYourVibes

I have kind of realized something I am NOT proud of.

I would NEVER dare say this on twitter or FB , to friends or publicly etc. I would be LYNCHED!

Silentcorner

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I have kind of realized something I am NOT proud of.

I would NEVER dare say this on twitter or FB , to friends or publicly etc. I would be LYNCHED!

Don't be ashamed of it, there are feminists who are distancing themselves from this wave...it's hysteria is all it is!

ILoveYourVibes

Silentcorner wrote: »

Don't be ashamed of it, there are feminists who are distancing themselves from this wave...it's hysteria is all it is!

I think I would prefer to keep it to myself!

joe40

How are women who choose to stay at home scorned. What evidence is there for that?

ILoveYourVibes

joe40 wrote: »

How are women who choose to stay at home scorned. What evidence is there for that?

They are never depicted in popular culture as interesting ...just put upon and annoying nags.

'Being a stay at home mother is not a job'.

'They are lazy ..fine life etc'

And i haven't a clue if it's hard to be honest i am not a stay at home mom. But it sounds like scorn.

It often comes from other women TBH.

She won't have to worry etc.

If i am HONEST. I think i have probably at one point thought these things too.

jam_mac_jam

Women who work are scorned and criticised by some, those who stay at home are scorned by others. Men who stay at home are also in some cases scorned.

People should mind their own business I think and let people do what they choose for them and their own families.

Airyfairy12

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They are never depicted in popular culture as interesting ...just put upon and annoying nags.

'Being a stay at home mother is not a job'.

'They are lazy ..fine life etc'

And i haven't a clue if it's hard to be honest i am not a stay at home mom. But it sounds like scorn.

In real life, how are stay at home mothers scorned? Is this something you see in your actual life?
stay at home mothers can be judged just as much as working mothers who are seen as being selfish for not staying at home with their kids (I get a judgey vibe from your posts towards working mothers)
Women cant win, if they work theyre selfish, if they dont their lazy.
And the worst part is, is mostly women judging other women.

eviltwin

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They are never depicted in popular culture as interesting ...just put upon and annoying nags.

'Being a stay at home mother is not a job'.

'They are lazy ..fine life etc'

And i haven't a clue if it's hard to be honest i am not a stay at home mom. But it sounds like scorn.

It often comes from other women TBH.

She won't have to worry etc.

If i am HONEST. I think i have probably at one point thought these things too.

Some people just love to judge others. I've had my share of comments about being a working mother. Once you have kids it feels like everything you do is open for debate and everyone is a critic. It's best to ignore it.

ILoveYourVibes

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

In real life, how are stay at home mothers scorned? Is this something you see in your actual life?
stay at home mothers are judged just as much as working mothers who are sometimes portrayed as being selfish for not staying at home with their kids (I get a judgey vibe from your posts towards working mothers)
Women cant win, if they work theyre selfish, if they dont their lazy.
Men who work are praised, men who stay at home with the kids are praised.
And the worst part is, is mostly women judging other women.

Oh yes. I actually see it.

I remember I was organizing a charity fundraiser I knew a woman who I thought could help us. I suggested her. The answer i got was she is a stay at home mom she can't be of any use. They got someone else. This was women!

Yeah I get that too on the other side. Career women not being seen as full time moms.

Sorry if i came off judgey. I don't know them.

I don't get men who stay with their kids TBH. I only know one who did and he just did a half assed job on the housework!

eviltwin

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Oh yes. I actually see it.

I remember I was organizing a charity fundraiser I knew a woman who I thought could help us. I suggested her. The answer i got was she is a stay at home mom she can't be of any use. They got someone else. This was women!

Yeah I get that too on the other side. Career women not being seen as full time moms.

Sorry if i came off judgey. I don't know them.

I don't get men who stay with their kids TBH. I only know one who did and he just did a half assed job on the housework!

One or two judgemental individuals are not an indicator of universal scorn.

What's not to get about stay at home dads?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It would kind of hard for me not to take offense at that now wouldn't it be honest?

Perhaps if you didn't want me to take offense you needn't have said it.

But well you did say it. So i will not take it too personally and give you the benefit of the doubt.


He wasn't. He was very wise. Definitely not backwards.

BUT the COMMENT he made wasn't VERY wise, DON'T you think? It's more LIKE a PSEUDO intellect COMMENT I would imagine. DON'T you think? TAKE some perspective. IMAGINE he wasn't YOUR grandad...

I hope my point is CLEAR

This is it

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Sorry if i came off judgey. I don't know them.

I don't get men who stay with their kids TBH. I only know one who did and he just did a half assed job on the housework!

Hilarious to read the above lines in the same post.

ILoveYourVibes

Hayes Thundering Suds wrote: »

BUT the COMMENT he made wasn't VERY wise, DON'T you think? It's more LIKE a PSEUDO intellect COMMENT I would imagine. DON'T you think? TAKE some perspective. IMAGINE he wasn't YOUR grandad...

I hope my point is CLEAR

He was right.

A lot of men ..in some areas ...and we know without mentioning ....really are less motivated to work because their women now do.

Be honest.

Abel Ruiz

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't get men who stay with their kids TBH. I only know one who did and he just did a half assed job on the housework!

I think it's time to put the keyboard down.
You've written enough nonsense for one day ffs

ILoveYourVibes

This is it wrote: »

Hilarious to read the above lines in the same post.

I am just being honest. His own words he knew he was not cut out for it. He just wasn't. He couldn't do it for more than six months. Then they split up.

Stheno

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He was right.

A lot of men ..in some areas ...and we know without mentioning ....really are less motivated to work because their women now do.

Be honest.

Have you an example?

Any thoughts on women who choose not to have children?

fattymuatty

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He was right.

A lot of men ..in some areas ...and we know without mentioning ....really are less motivated to work because their women now do.

Be honest.

I don't really understand what you are trying to say? That women shouldn't earn a wage because it makes men less motivated? Women should stay at home so men feel more motivated to work? Why is it a womans job to motivate a man, to sacrifice her career for a mans career? I mean I can see why your grandad would think that men should have priority over women what with him being a man and all but I can't for the life of me think why a woman would think that men should have priority over women or why it is your job to motivate men to work?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Stheno wrote: »

Any thoughts on women who choose not to have children?

Oooh!

*popcorn gif*

ILoveYourVibes

eviltwin wrote: »

One or two judgemental individuals are not an indicator of universal scorn.

What's not to get about stay at home dads?

http://www.familyfriendlyhq.ie/family-blog/unpopular-opinion-being-a-stay-at-home-mother-is-not-a-job
https://www.yourtango.com/2015266101/sorry-being-stay-home-mom-not-job
https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/3zuaqz/cmv_being_a_stay_at_home_mom_is_not_a_job_and_its/


I just saying what I see.

If you see stay at home mothers etc being respected a lot that is a good thing.

I just rarely see it.

ILoveYourVibes

Stheno wrote: »

Any thoughts on women who choose not to have children?

It's DEFINITELY best for everyone that they do not.

And I mean they can still nurture the world in their own way and the people around them.

I am not one of these women who is like oh you are not a woman if you don't have kids

jam_mac_jam

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This is it wrote: »

Hilarious to read the above lines in the same post.

I am just being honest. His own words he knew he was not cut out for it. He just wasn't. He couldn't do it for more than six months. Then they split up.

That's one man. That you know. One person. I know plenty of women who are useless at housework. Doesn't mean anything.

One of the best people I know with kids is my father. He is brilliant with them yet old school manly man. You cant base these things on sex or gender. There are miliions of individuals who prove all the generalisations wrong.

You are basing tendancies of the population to the individual. It doesn't work like that humans are complex creatures.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

fattymuatty wrote: »

I don't really understand what you are trying to say? That women shouldn't earn a wage because it makes men less motivated? Women should stay at home so men feel more motivated to work? Why is it a womans job to motivate a man, to sacrifice her career for a mans career? I mean I can see why your grandad would think that men should have priority over women what with him being a man and all but I can't for the life of me think why a woman would think that men should have priority of women or why it is your job to motivate men to work?

That expectation to be sole provider is incredible pressure on men too, without getting too morbid it can lead to some pretty dark sh1t. If it's something that suits the couple and they're in a position to make that choice freely then more power to them, but as a one size fits all model it's pretty crap.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I have kind of realized something I am NOT proud of.

I would NEVER dare say this on twitter or FB , to friends or publicly etc. I would be LYNCHED!

after saying men can't handle staying at home and minding kids, is anyone surprised

ILoveYourVibes

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

That's one man. That you know. One person. I know plenty of women who are useless at housework. Doesn't mean anything.

One of the best people I know with kids is my father. He is brilliant with them yet old school manly man. You cant base these things on sex or gender. There are miliions of individuals who prove all the generalisations wrong.

You are basing tendancies of the population to the individual. It doesn't work like that humans are complex creatures.

Ok i am going to be HONEST. I want you to be too.

I know many more women who are better at housework than men.

Individuals yes. But on the whole i know more individuals that confirm my opinions.

That doesn't mean i would be disrespectful to the others.

eviltwin

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

http://www.familyfriendlyhq.ie/family-blog/unpopular-opinion-being-a-stay-at-home-mother-is-not-a-job
https://www.yourtango.com/2015266101/sorry-being-stay-home-mom-not-job
https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/3zuaqz/cmv_being_a_stay_at_home_mom_is_not_a_job_and_its/


I just saying what I see.

If you see stay at home mothers etc being respected a lot that is a good thing.

I just rarely see it.

I think it's more a case of you seeking out people who support your claim.

If you are genuinely surrounded by the kind of people who like to look down on others over something as basic as what they do for a living then it's time to find new people.

Stheno

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It's DEFINITELY best for everyone that they do not.

And I mean they can still nurture the world in their own way and the people around them.

I am not one of these women who is like oh you are not a woman if you don't have kids

Right so it's ok to not have kids, but if you do you should stay at home and let the father provide?

And is it ok for those women who choose not to have kids to work and take a man's job?

I presume it's also ok to have kids if you are not married?

ILoveYourVibes

bluewolf wrote: »

after saying men can't handle staying at home and minding kids, is anyone surprised

I think people's reaction in this thread is probably proof i should keep it to myself. :pac:

_blaaz

Ace Immense Starter wrote: »

That expectation to be sole provider is incredible pressure on men too, without getting too morbid it can lead to some pretty dark sh1t. If it's something that suits the couple and they're in a position to make that choice freely then more power to them, but as a one size fits all model it's pretty crap.

Tbh i wouldnt go out with someone who wouldnt work and expected me to be sole provider (different if couldnt work coz sick etc)


Id just feel.i was being taken for a mug tbh

ILoveYourVibes

Stheno wrote: »

Right so it's ok to not have kids, but if you do you should stay at home and let the father provide?

And is it ok for those women who choose not to have kids to work and take a man's job?

I presume it's also ok to have kids if you are not married?

I wouldn't be so rigid ...jeeze louise!

ILoveYourVibes

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbh i wouldnt go out with someone who wouldnt work and expected me to be sole provider (different if couldnt work coz sick etc)


Id just feel.i was being taken for a mug tbh

I understand. I do work.

But at the same time. I know I will get KILLED for this.

I would have trouble respecting a man who wasn't willing to etc.

I mean might not take that up etc.

eviltwin

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I think people's reaction in this thread is probably proof i should keep it to myself. :pac:

How old are you?

Stheno

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Ok i am going to be HONEST. I want you to be too.

I know many more women who are better at housework than men.

Individuals yes. But on the whole i know more individuals that confirm my opinions.

That doesn't mean i would be disrespectful to the others.

Ever heard of splitting the chores? I don't wash floors, hoover, clean bathrooms, iron or take out the rubbish nor do I polish the furniture.

My Oh doesnt cook or do laundry or grocery shopping.

What are your views on same sex couples or parents?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

http://www.familyfriendlyhq.ie/family-blog/unpopular-opinion-being-a-stay-at-home-mother-is-not-a-job
https://www.yourtango.com/2015266101/sorry-being-stay-home-mom-not-job
https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/3zuaqz/cmv_being_a_stay_at_home_mom_is_not_a_job_and_its/


I just saying what I see.

If you see stay at home mothers etc being respected a lot that is a good thing.

I just rarely see it.

One of those is an article saying that while staying at home to raise kids is hard, valuable work, it's not technically a job.

Another is a critique of the provocative tone of the first article.

The other is some random 23 year old on reddit.

Everywhere in popular culture and that's all you came up with? Same depth of reading your own links as you seem to have brought to your degree curriculum tbh.