Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

I have a family friend from Nicaragua. Was a qualifed gp over there, and a medic during the war.

He became a refugee in Ireland as his family were in severe danger over there.

Took him years to get his papers.

And then the medical Council wouldn't recognize his credentials.

Once he could work, he was only able to get kitchen Porter work.

He did that while looking for other work

He's currently a receptionist at a medical practice. A complete waste of a person's qualifications.

So yes, I do believe things should be different.

Blueshoe

cookie1977 wrote: »

They cannot stand on their own two feet unless they are assisted. Will you assist?

Explain the following phrase "compatible with our society"

What skills do you see are in demand?

I dont see a high demand among the Irish for certain jobs (Childcare, nursing, construction, service industry). So who will do those?

People with degrees or a trade don't need a hand. They apply for a job and build a life for themselves. Like we do when we go to Australia, the Us or Canada

Compatible with our society is a general western world mindset. Ie equality of the sexes

Every country has a skills and occupation shortage list. We don't need unskilled labour. We need tradesmen, nurses, consultants etc

How do you think Ireland should handle inevitable immigration?

batgoat

Blueshoe wrote: »

People with degrees or a trade don't need a hand. They apply for a job and build a life for themselves. Like we do when we go to Australia, the Us or Canada

Compatible with our society is a general western world mindset. Ie equality of the sexes

Every country has a skills and occupation shortage list. We don't need unskilled labour. We need tradesmen, nurses, consultants etc

How do you think Ireland should handle inevitable immigration?

So your logic is, only help those who you can use. Abandon any other refugees, you're a great humanitarian..

cookie1977

Stephen15 wrote: »

Controlled immigration
Immediate deportation of asylum seekers who's claims are rejected and no appeals allowed
No migrants taken at the request of the EU
Deportation of all forgein criminals
Ban on the Burka
Priority given to people from other first world countries
Visas only given out to people with qualifications

Controlled immigration - Define/What system do you propose??
Immediate deportation of asylum seekers who's claims are rejected and no appeals allowed - No right to appeal? What is this communist China?
No migrants taken at the request of the EU - We're a member of a club that wont fly.
Deportation of all forgein criminals - We do that already, can you elaborate? What if the country they came from "claims" they are a criminal and tehy are not?
Ban on the Burka - Not much to do with immigration to be hones. Why, does it scare you?
Priority given to people from other first world countries - Why? Sounds discriminatory/racist depending on your answer.
Visas only given out to people with qualifications - define qualifications? Would a high school diploma do?


Take your time replying.

cookie1977

Blueshoe wrote: »

People with degrees or a trade don't need a hand. They apply for a job and build a life for themselves. Like we do when we go to Australia, the Us or Canada

Really?, then tell that to some of our own home grown graduates.

Blueshoe wrote: »

Compatible with our society is a general western world mindset. Ie equality of the sexes

Our own western mindset. You know the planet is a globe dont you?

Blueshoe wrote: »

Every country has a skills and occupation shortage list. We don't need unskilled labour. We need tradesmen, nurses, consultants etc

Delusional. Tell the above to the services industry.

Blueshoe wrote: »

How do you think Ireland should handle inevitable immigration?

Well with some sort of a plan that works anyway.

Blueshoe

batgoat wrote: »

So your logic is, only help those who you can use. Abandon any other refugees, you're a great humanitarian..

I'm not a humanitarian at all. A tiny number of refugees is acceptable. Failed applicants deported immediately. Africas population is expected to boom. Ireland needs to get it's house in order.

The lines between refugees and migrants has been blurred and confused somewhere in recent posts. My views have been solely refering to migrants moving to Ireland not refugees.

Two different things. With different solutions.

Both Stephen and I have given our views on migration and what we feel should be Ireland's policy. Nobody has offered a counter.
Only replies have been an attempt to pick ours apart.

Post your own. Bring your ideas and view to the table. If none of you have any then say so and il drop it

Blueshoe

cookie1977 wrote: »

Controlled immigration - Define/What system do you propose??
Immediate deportation of asylum seekers who's claims are rejected and no appeals allowed - No right to appeal? What is this communist China?
No migrants taken at the request of the EU - We're a member of a club that wont fly.
Deportation of all forgein criminals - We do that already, can you elaborate? What if the country they came from "claims" they are a criminal and tehy are not?
Ban on the Burka - Not much to do with immigration to be hones. Why, does it scare you?
Priority given to people from other first world countries - Why? Sounds discriminatory/racist depending on your answer.
Visas only given out to people with qualifications - define qualifications? Would a high school diploma do?


Take your time replying.

Why don't you offer your own policy or ideas. Still zero from any of you.

Blueshoe

[quote="cookie1977;111070087"

Well with some sort of a plan that works anyway.[/quote]

There you go. You have no ideas of your own. Only able to pick other posters ideas apart but offer nothing in return. It took a while but we got there.

cookie1977

Blueshoe wrote: »

Why don't you offer your own policy or ideas. Still zero from any of you.

Ok I'll bite.

• I'd like to see migrants allowed to work while they are awaiting the results of their case.
• I'd like to see proper housing for all (not just migrants) and the abolishing of DP.
• I'd like to see some compassion when it comes to migrants fleeing what they deem as persecution. And consideration in their case (following as much of an investigation as possible).
• I'd like to hear from the CSO as to the numbers of young people they feel we need to support our aging population and link that to the numbers of migrants accepted. This should also be linked to FAS/IDA/Enterprise Ireland data on skills shortages.
• I'd like to see a support system to allow the migrants to adjust/integrate (Integration plans for another thread) put in place. This would also need to help the local population adjust too. Sweden has a model which could be examined and improved upon.
• I'd like to see a grants system put in place (perhaps from Local enterprise board) to assist migrants start up enterprises.

All of the above would require more more money so yes that means increasing taxes which can be spread out amongst the tax paying population (and again for another discussion). Industry might also be willing to give towards this too. I'm not going to harp on about the benefits of migration. You either believe there is or believe there isn't (there is!) but here's a link:


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-migration-to-ireland-should-be-encouraged-1.3157810


Ok bring it on.

Stephen15

cookie1977 wrote: »

Controlled immigration - Define/What system do you propose??

Australian style points system would be a good start

Immediate deportation of asylum seekers who's claims are rejected and no appeals allowed - No right to appeal? What is this communist China?

No they're claims are found bogus hence they should be deported. They are not Irish citizens and they should be afforded the same rights as Irish citizens. Coming to think maybe I will change my stance and allow them to appeal as long as they are willing to pay for their own solictor as they should not be entitled to free legal aid.

No migrants taken at the request of the EU - We're a member of a club that wont fly.

Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Czech Republic all do it and they are all EU members so what's stopping us

Deportation of all forgein criminals - We do that already, can you elaborate? What if the country they came from "claims" they are a criminal and tehy are not?

Once they are out they will not be getting back in regardless of what other countries think

Ban on the Burka - Not much to do with immigration to be hones. Why, does it scare you?

It's security risk people shouldn't be allowed hide their identity same way it's not acceptable to wear a balaclava

Priority given to people from other first world countries - Why? Sounds discriminatory/racist depending on your answer.

Definitely not racist as people from the third world are not a race maybe discriminatory. Put it this way would you feel more comfortable moving to Australia or Bangladesh?

Visas only given out to people with qualifications - define qualifications? Would a high school diploma do?

No they must have a qualification which we have a shortage of. Eg if there is a shortage of 20 doctors and no other qualifications then only give visas to 20 doctors. That's a purely hypothetical example btw

cookie1977

Stephen15 wrote: »

Australian style points system would be a good start



No they're claims are found bogus hence they should be deported. They are not Irish citizens and they should be afforded the same rights as Irish citizens. Coming to think maybe I will change my stance and allow them to appeal as long as they are willing to pay for their own solictor as they should not be entitled to free legal aid.



Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Czech Republic all do it and they are all EU members so what's stopping us



Once they are out they will not be getting back in regardless of what other countries think



It's security risk people shouldn't be allowed hide their identity same way it's not acceptable to wear a balaclava



Definitely not racist as people from the third world are not a race maybe discriminatory. Put it this way would you feel more comfortable moving to Australia or Bangladesh?



No they must have a qualification which we have a shortage of. Eg if there is a shortage of 20 doctors and no other qualifications then only give visas to 20 doctors. That's a purely hypothetical example btw

In order:


Australian points system is a model I dont have a problem with. As long as it looks at more than just qualifications and looks (see my post) at our other needs.

Right to appeal is an absolute. You can cap it but there needs to be one. You have a right if you are charged with a crime. Ever heard of a failure in the justice system???

I'd like a link on that please. I dont believe you're correct. I'm happy for Ireland not to be in the same camp as some of those countries.

Yes well you didn't answer my point there.

Can you provide me with a link showing rates of terrorism carried out with a Burka please?


See my post re needs. Qualifications aren't everything.

"Stephen

"Stephen wrote:

It's security risk people shouldn't be allowed hide their identity same way it's not acceptable to wear a balaclava

Like this?

cookie1977

Nice data here from the CSO on migration:
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2016/

Highlights from 2016 (latest official figures from CSO):
Immigration in 2016 was 79,300
38.2% of immigrants have a third level qualification
21.1% of immigrants were Irish
40.1% of our immigrants are non EU nationals

Stephen15

cookie1977 wrote: »

[*]I'd like to see migrants allowed to work while they are awaiting the results of their case.

Already the case

https://www.thejournal.ie/asylum-seeker-working-4095315-Jun2018/

[*]I'd like to see proper housing for all (not just migrants) and the abolishing of DP.

Easier said than done. Supply is always going to be limited and with the limited supply that will always be there in my opinion the Irish who have lived here all their lives should be given first preference ahead of migrants who have only been here a short anount of time

[*]I'd like to see some compassion when it comes to migrants fleeing what they deem as persecution. And consideration in their case (following as much of an investigation as possible).

Anyone can say they are fleeing some sort of persecution. How much will all these investigations cost even if it's bloody obivious they are telling lies

[*]I'd like to hear from the CSO as to the numbers of young people they feel we need to support our aging population and link that to the numbers of migrants accepted. This should also be linked to FAS/IDA/Enterprise Ireland data on skills shortages.

Surely it would be easier just to encourage Irish women to have more children

[*]I'd like to see a support system to allow the migrants to adjust/integrate (Integration plans for another thread) put in place. This would also need to help the local population adjust too. Sweden has a model which could be examined and improved upon.

Sweden where intergration has highly sucessful despite the fact there has been an Islamic terrorist attack there, majority of convicted rapists are foreigners and has fallen victim to riots by migrants.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45181321
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269

[*]I'd like to see a grants system put in place (perhaps from Local enterprise board) to assist migrants start up enterprises.

How much do you think it will cost and how sucessful do you think it will be? Also what sort of enterprises should they be encouraged to set up kebab shops? halal butchers? ethnic food shops? ethnic clothes shops? African hairdressers?

All of the above would require more more money so yes that means increasing taxes which can be spread out amongst the tax paying population (and again for another discussion). Industry might also be willing to give towards this too. I'not going to harp on about the benefits of migration. You either believe there is or believe there isn't (there is!) but here's a link:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-migration-to-ireland-should-be-encouraged-1.3157810

It will require money but what reward would it bring compared to improving our infrastructure, public services and paying our own better wages such as Nurses who are forced to emigrate. Also link is behind a paywall.

pinkyeye

Stephen15 wrote: »

Google racism this is what you'll find

Racism:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

I haven't see any racism from him or the National party anti immigration views are not racist as racism is directed at a race and immigrants are not a race

The party that only wants straight white members?? That the one?

cookie1977

Stephen15 wrote: »

cookie1977 wrote: »

Already the case

https://www.thejournal.ie/asylum-seeker-working-4095315-Jun2018/



Easier said than done. Supply is always going to be limited and with the limited supply that will always be there in my opinion the Irish who have lived here all their lives should be given first preference ahead of migrants who have only been here a short anount of time



Anyone can say they are fleeing some sort of persecution. How much will all these investigations cost even if it's bloody obivious they are telling lies



Surely it would be easier just to encourage Irish women to have more children



Sweden where intergration has highly sucessful despite the fact there has been an Islamic terrorist attack there, majority of convicted rapists are foreigners and has fallen victim to riots by migrants.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45181321
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269



How much do you think it will cost and how sucessful do you think it will be? Also what sort of enterprises should they be encouraged to set up kebab shops? halal butchers? ethnic food shops? ethnic clothes shops? African hairdressers?



It will require money but what reward would it bring compared to improving our infrastructure, public services and paying our own better wages such as Nurses who are forced to emigrate. Also link is behind a paywall.

Groannnnn. I dont have the energy anymore. But I am going to put that to the wife!!

Blueshoe

cookie1977 wrote: »

Ok I'll bite.

• I'd like to see migrants allowed to work while they are awaiting the results of their case.
• I'd like to see proper housing for all (not just migrants) and the abolishing of DP.
• I'd like to see some compassion when it comes to migrants fleeing what they deem as persecution. And consideration in their case (following as much of an investigation as possible).
• I'd like to hear from the CSO as to the numbers of young people they feel we need to support our aging population and link that to the numbers of migrants accepted. This should also be linked to FAS/IDA/Enterprise Ireland data on skills shortages.
• I'd like to see a support system to allow the migrants to adjust/integrate (Integration plans for another thread) put in place. This would also need to help the local population adjust too. Sweden has a model which could be examined and improved upon.
• I'd like to see a grants system put in place (perhaps from Local enterprise board) to assist migrants start up enterprises.

All of the above would require more more money so yes that means increasing taxes which can be spread out amongst the tax paying population (and again for another discussion). Industry might also be willing to give towards this too. I'm not going to harp on about the benefits of migration. You either believe there is or believe there isn't (there is!) but here's a link:


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-migration-to-ireland-should-be-encouraged-1.3157810


Ok bring it on.

Well fair play to you. Well written and reasonable mostly

I don't agree that refugees should be allowed to work while waiting for their case to be heard as they may "disappear" and stay illegally. I do think that their cases should be seen far quicker though with one appeal and if refused then deported. Living for years in a direct provision centre is unacceptable.

I don't understand your point about housing for all. I'm guessing that you want the government to supply housing for everyone in the country? If so I strongly disagree. It's would be a definite move toward a welfare state and I feel there would be too many people who wouldn't bother working anymore if they are just handed a house.

I agree with the CSO and migrants required part 100%

Small amounts of migrants could in theory be placed into smaller pieces towns where it would be easier for them to connect with the local community and fit in. No shock to the system for anyone. Would suit a few families rather than a group of young men.

I don't see a real issue with grants to help start businesses as they will be contributing to the economy and might even provide employment. Ie more contributers.

I don't think an increase in general taxation would be required to finance any of that but would be against any rise.

My sticking point is numbers. There are a certain amount needed for the benefit of the country's future but taking in too many or too quickly benifits nobody and will build resentment.

But fair enough.

Sweetemotion

cookie1977 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-migration-to-ireland-should-be-encouraged-1.3157810


Ok bring it on.

The first comment on that article puts your delusion of the benefits of migration up in smoke.

cookie1977

Sweetemotion wrote: »

The first comment on that article puts your delusion of the benefits of migration up in smoke.

:rolleyes: I'll just say compare our population density to countries with a similar population.

Sweetemotion

cookie1977 wrote: »

:rolleyes: I'll just say compare our population density to countries with a similar population.

You can say what you want :rolleyes:

cookie1977

Blueshoe wrote: »

Well fair play to you. Well written and reasonable mostly

I don't agree that refugees should be allowed to work while waiting for their case to be heard as they may "disappear" and stay illegally. I do think that their cases should be seen far quicker though with one appeal and if refused then deported. Living for years in a direct provision centre is unacceptable.

I don't understand your point about housing for all. I'm guessing that you want the government to supply housing for everyone in the country? If so I strongly disagree. It's would be a definite move toward a welfare state and I feel there would be too many people who wouldn't bother working anymore if they are just handed a house.

I agree with the CSO and migrants required part 100%

Small amounts of migrants could in theory be placed into smaller pieces towns where it would be easier for them to connect with the local community and fit in. No shock to the system for anyone. Would suit a few families rather than a group of young men.

I don't see a real issue with grants to help start businesses as they will be contributing to the economy and might even provide employment. Ie more contributers.

I don't think an increase in general taxation would be required to finance any of that but would be against any rise.

My sticking point is numbers. There are a certain amount needed for the benefit of the country's future but taking in too many or too quickly benifits nobody and will build resentment.

But fair enough.

Most people just want to get on with their lives. They dont have an interest in politics or religion to such an extent that they'd go to a protest or take up arms. Letting them work gives them a positive outlook on life while they await the decision.


I dont believe the state should have sold or stopped building social housing. We need a safety net which includes social housing. That's my view.


Migrant numbers are quite low for the country (see my post from CSO figures) when you look at the breakdown. We are far short of the working population needed for when I retire.

PS Careful you're sounding like one of those lefty liberal types.

cookie1977

Sweetemotion wrote: »

You can say what you want :rolleyes:

Dont need to. CSO stats bare that out actually. But feel free to ignore facts.



"These combined changes have resulted in a return to net inward migration for Ireland (+3,100) for the first time since 2009."
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111070482&postcount=3344

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Be careful, many people would call you an islamaphobe for a statement like that

Only if 'many people' are particularly stupid or particularly bigoted.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Also please explain why Andy Ngo a conservative journalist who is of Vietnamese Armerican origin.

Stephen - you might want to check out how your beloved 'journalist' Andy who you repeatedly spin as the 'poor innocent victim' of those nasty Antifa people is having a good laugh with his mates while they plan an attack on a bar;


https://twitter.com/alex_zee/status/1164406641187442689

pinkyeye

I'd like to ask the racists why they haven't watched the video of the poisonous dwarf ranting about Hazel Chu?

Stephen in particular who is a keen supporter of the midget. Why wouldn't you watch a video with your favourite person in?

It's only a click away.

Don't expect an answer for a week though although one of our more intelligent far right posters might create a response for Stephen.

AndrewJRenko

Blueshoe wrote: »

Who is stopping them? Haven't met too many women in the trades jobs either. Trades are making big money again. Who is stopping the women from becoming plumbers etc?

It's down to choice. They prefer to work in an office for average pay 9-5 while many men are outside doing construction work 7-6.
The pay will be vastly different as the job is different.

I'd like to see the stats of how many women are working in the trades. What would you imagine it is ?
2 or 3% maybe.

That's one example
Different industries pay different amounts.

If Hours worked , qualifications held and job type were exactly the same there would be no gap

What percentage of office admin staff are women?

So just to be clear - you reckon women just 'choose' all those crap, low-paid jobs minding our children and our elderly parents, wiping the arses and wiping up the bodily fluids, and those crap cleaning jobs, and those crap hospitality jobs - it's purely down to personal choice? Nothing possibly to do with crap education from crap educators with crap expectations, nothing to do with societal barriers.


You reckon the less that 1/3rd representation of women on the boards of Irish public companies and senior civil service posts is just some kind of mad coincidence, down to the fact that enough women haven't applied?


Have you really thought this through?

Blueshoe wrote: »

How will you do this?
By dilution of Catholics with Islam?
Is that the grand plan

I was more thinking about separation of church and state, so that people get to practice their own religion in their own time if that's what they want to do.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Do you support Islamic immigration?

I'm not quite sure why you'd think that I'd be open to having a good faith discussion on immigration with a racist?

Stephen15

pinkyeye wrote: »

I'd like to ask the racists why they haven't watched the video of the poisonous dwarf ranting about Hazel Chu?

Ok I've watched the speech now. I'm guessing Hazel Chu made some point about the Irish emigrating to America during the famine am I right. When she referred to the Irish emigrating she referred to the Irish as 'we'. Justin was merely asking did her ancestors emigrate to America during the famine.

Stephen in particular who is a keen supporter of the midget. Why wouldn't you watch a video with your favourite person in?

Watched it now, happy?

pinkyeye

Stephen15 wrote: »

Ok I've watched the speech now. I'm guessing Hazel Chu made some point about the Irish emigrating to America during the famine am I right. When she referred to the Irish emigrating she referred to the Irish as 'we'. Justin was merely asking did her ancestors emigrate to America during the famine.



Watched it now, happy?

And you still think Justin is totally reasonable and not at all racist?

He wants to get the power to deport Hazel Chu!!!!

Stephen15

pinkyeye wrote: »

And you still think Justin is totally reasonable and not at all racist?

He wants to get the power to deport Hazel Chu!!!!

Well I don't agree with everything he says. However I agree with a lot of what he says everyone has viewpoints that I do not agree with and others I do agree with. I have listened to a lot of his speeches and I agree with a lot of his points certainly when I heard his interviews with Gemma he came out the saner of the two.

I don't agree that Hazel Chu should be deported perhaps he agrees she should be but that would be one of his views I don't agree with if it actually is one of his views.

AndrewJRenko

Stephen15 wrote: »

when I heard his interviews with Gemma he came out the saner of the two.

Must have been hard to decide between the two?

batgoat

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well I don't agree with everything he says. However I agree with a lot of what he says everyone has viewpoints that I do not agree with and others I do agree with. I have listened to a lot of his speeches and I agree with a lot of his points certainly when I heard his interviews with Gemma he came out the saner of the two.

I don't agree that Hazel Chu should be deported perhaps he agrees she should be but that would be one of his views I don't agree with if it actually is one of his views.

That would be his view? You're literally supporting a man who wants to deport Irish citizens, it's literally one of the most extreme positions he could take outside of putting them in a camp. But he comes across as sane?