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Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

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    #662
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    It certainly doesnt mean locking them up.

    So are prisoners in Mountjoy not being treated like humans either. They are not locked up they are free to go home to their countries of origin


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    #663
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,408 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So are prisoners in Mountjoy not being treated like humans either. They are not locked up they are free to go home to their countries of origin

    prisoners in mountjoy are there because they have committed an offence. asylum seekers have not committed an offence.


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    #664
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    prisoners in mountjoy are there because they have committed an offence. asylum seekers have not committed an offence.

    I was just curious to hear you views on locking people up. Anyway asylum seekers in Australia are not locked up anyway they are free to leave just not free to enter Australia.


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    #665
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    They are being treated like human beings where's your evidence their not?

    There is quite a lot of evidence. Here is some I found from a 2 minute Google search. There is reams and reams more.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/ireland-must-own-up-to-its-cruel-treatment-of-refugees-875698.html

    https://sinnott.ie/direct-provision-ecocsoc-report/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/emergency-accommodation-unsuitable-for-asylum-seekers-committee-told-1.3901024?mode=amp


    https://www.thejournal.ie/mosney-direct-provision-residents-stage-protest-over-treatment-by-centre-staff-4607009-Apr2019/

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/irelands-strange-cruel-system-for-asylum-seekers

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #666
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Well they're obivously not doing a good enough job at controlling it or at least as good a job as the Australian governement are

    It is controlled though. At least now you have stopped lying.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #667
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Kimsang wrote: »
    I was just checking myself, I thought i'd save others the time and throw it up.


    56%


    75%

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp5hpi/cp5hpi/nat/

    I just read your link. It says
    slightly higher proportion of the usually resident homeless population was found to be non-Irish (14.1 per cent or 849 people)

    You appear to be making things up

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #668
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    There is quite a lot of evidence. Here is some I found from a 2 minute Google search. There is reams and reams more.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/ireland-must-own-up-to-its-cruel-treatment-of-refugees-875698.html

    https://sinnott.ie/direct-provision-ecocsoc-report/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/emergency-accommodation-unsuitable-for-asylum-seekers-committee-told-1.3901024?mode=amp


    https://www.thejournal.ie/mosney-direct-provision-residents-stage-protest-over-treatment-by-centre-staff-4607009-Apr2019/

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/irelands-strange-cruel-system-for-asylum-seekers

    Well one thing for sure is their getting better treatment than in their own countries as if they weren't they would have withdrawn their case for asylum and returned to their homeland. I'm sure if your life was at risk or were being persecuted in your own country youd be happy with what you you got as long as your safe and your life isn't under threat


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    #669
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    It certainly doesnt mean locking them up.

    They aren't locked up though. They are free to wander around whatever town or city they are landed in.

    What else would you do with them?


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    #670
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I don't see the problem with sending asylum seekers to islands is either. They are free to withdraw their case for asylum and return home. If their cases are genuine they remain in the holding centres on the islands I'm sure if you got a good dose of torture or you life was genuinely in danger (which the majority of asylum seekers are not) you wouldn't be complaining about the conditions.

    So put a person who is potentially fleeing traumatising circumstances and putting them in a new situation which isn't as bad but still horrendous. So human dignity goes out the window... Granted since you seem to view people from the developing world as savages, that's not very surprising.
    Stephen15 wrote: »
    They are being treated like human beings where's your evidence their not?

    Do you think children in camps in the US are being treated adequately as human beings out of interest? Refused medical care, toothpaste, soap etc.


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    #671
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ohnonotgmail wrote:
    It certainly doesnt mean locking them up.

    People aren't asking what you wouldn't do with people attempting to enter a country without documentation.

    Tell us what you would do with them? Would you be willing to allow them into your house?


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    #672
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    People aren't asking what you wouldn't do with people attempting to enter a country without documentation.

    Tell us what you would do with them? Would you be willing to allow them into your house?

    There have been reports of rapes and beatings by guards in one of the facilities. So it seems somewhat like they're escaping one terror for a new one. Journalists are not allowed access to the facilities as well, so the below is likely only the tip of the iceberg.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/exmanus-island-workers-report-beatings-rapes-of-asylum-seekers-20140505-zr4uv.html


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    #673
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Well one thing for sure is their getting better treatment than in their own countries as if they weren't they would have withdrawn their case for asylum and returned to their homeland. I'm sure if your life was at risk or were being persecuted in your own country youd be happy with what you you got as long as your safe and your life isn't under threat

    To be honest no. I know people living in temporary accomodation. They are being treated like dirt and filth by the people running the places. No I wouldnt be happy with living in temporary accomodation or direct provision here. People living in both are treated extremely badly. I can bring you to meet a few. I am sure they could shatter your rose tinted glasses easily.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #674
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    To be honest no. I know people living in temporary accomodation. They are being treated like dirt and filth by the people running the places. No I wouldnt be happy with living in temporary accomodation or direct provision here. People living in both are treated extremely badly. I can bring you to meet a few. I am sure they could shatter your rose tinted glasses easily.

    What should be done with them instead?

    I asked a different poster but he delivered no ideas.


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    #675
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    batgoat wrote:
    There have been reports of rapes and beatings by guards in one of the facilities. So it seems somewhat like they're escaping one terror for a new one. Journalists are not allowed access to the facilities as well, so the below is likely only the tip of the iceberg.

    Ok. That's horrific if true. But again, what would you do with swathes of undocumented people arriving at your border? Would you be prepared to let them stay in your house ?


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    #676
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    To be honest no. I know people living in temporary accomodation. I can bring you to meet a few. I am sure they could shatter your rose tinted glasses easily.

    I'd love you to bring me to meet them.


  • Options
    #677
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'd love you to bring me to meet them.

    Why?


  • Options
    #678
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    batgoat wrote: »
    So put a person who is potentially fleeing traumatising circumstances and putting them in a new situation which isn't as bad but still horrendous. So human dignity goes out the window... Granted since you seem to view people from the developing world as savages, that's not very surprising.

    What are the alternatives ? Anyone that shows up claiming asylum we open out arms and say come in ?

    I agree that the asylum process takes too long. the system needs to be revamped, loopholes closed and the state has got to stop funding appeal after appeal.

    set a time period. do an investigation and make a finding. Then admit or deport. 1 appeal route which is done within a month and that's it, in or out..

    How people can be left in limbo for 9 plus years I can never understand.

    Any people who lie or are caught lying on their application... Deport...

    Genuine asylum seekers need to be looked after. and the rest sent home.

    If not then why have we an immigration dept at all ?? Just close the hatches at the airport and ports and open the doors.


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    #679
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dudara wrote:
    Why?

    Because I hold the idea that living in temporary accommodation, while not ideal, is much better than being homeless.

    I would like my rose tinted glasses to be shattered.


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    #680
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    To be honest no. I know people living in temporary accomodation. They are being treated like dirt and filth by the people running the places. No I wouldnt be happy with living in temporary accomodation or direct provision here. People living in both are treated extremely badly. I can bring you to meet a few. I am sure they could shatter your rose tinted glasses easily.

    Well if they're treated better back home they are free to go back. Nothings stopping them


  • Options
    #681
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Wel if they're treated better back home they are free to go back. Nothings stopping them

    So they should move back from being raped and beaten in Australia to being beaten and raped elsewhere? You don't seem to give a damn about human rights of anyone...


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    #682
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'd love you to bring me to meet them.

    Somehow I doubt your honesty in that statement

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #683
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Wel if they're treated better back home they are free to go back. Nothings stopping them

    Who said they are treated better back home?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #684
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    batgoat wrote: »
    So they should move back from being raped and beaten in Australia to being beaten and raped elsewhere? You don't seem to give a damn about human rights of anyone...

    They aren't being raped and beaten in Australia they are getting their basic human needs catered for. I was responding to a poster who was saying that they are being treated worse in Ireland than in their home countries.


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    #685
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Who said they are treated better back home?

    You said they'd rather go back home than live in temporary accommodation
    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    To be honest no. I know people living in temporary accomodation. They are being treated like dirt and filth by the people running the places. No I wouldnt be happy with living in temporary accomodation or direct provision here. People living in both are treated extremely badly. I can bring you to meet a few. I am sure they could shatter your rose tinted glasses easily.


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    #686
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    They aren't being raped and beaten in Australia they are getting their basic human needs catered for. I was responding to a poster who was saying that they are being treated worse in Ireland than in their home countries.

    I literally just referenced a news story where a facility was doing so, so you're wrong and simply ignorant of the conditions in these facilities... The same facilities don't offer access to journalists and have been condemned by human rights bodies across the guide. So no, basic human rights are not respected.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/exmanus-island-workers-report-beatings-rapes-of-asylum-seekers-20140505-zr4uv.html

    The same location had 26 suicide attempts as of June..
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/03/how-many-more-people-must-die-on-manus-before-australia-ends-indefinite-detention


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    #687
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    To be honest no. I know people living in temporary accomodation. They are being treated like dirt and filth by the people running the places. No I wouldnt be happy with living in temporary accomodation or direct provision here. People living in both are treated extremely badly. I can bring you to meet a few. I am sure they could shatter your rose tinted glasses easily.

    What’s your alternative to direct provision? When a family arrive from Africa do we give them a house? No one who gives out about DP can suggest an alternative.
    Africa is a huge continent, is there really no where else they can find a better life there than heading to an island off the coast of Europe?
    Again if you give out about DP please suggest an alternative


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    #688
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    You said they'd rather go back home than live in temporary accommodation

    No I didnt say that

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #689
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Patrick2010 wrote: »
    What’s your alternative to direct provision? When a family arrive from Africa do we give them a house? No one who gives out about DP can suggest an alternative.
    Africa is a huge continent, is there really no where else they can find a better life there than heading to an island off the coast of Europe?
    Again if you give out about DP please suggest an alternative

    I completely support the alternatives suggested by the Irish Refugee Council. They are workable and achievable and humane.

    https://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/news-media/direct-provision-framing-an-alternative-reception-system-for-people-seeking-international-protection

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #690
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I completely support the alternatives suggested by the Irish Refugee Council. They are workable and achievable and humane.

    https://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/news-media/direct-provision-framing-an-alternative-reception-system-for-people-seeking-international-protection
    You didn’t answer the question, where should asylum seekers be housed? Simple question, no?


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    #691
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    In Gemma news (because thats what teh fncking thread is about)- i see she's had the rug pulled out from her proposed rally in Carrick on Shannon. First the Parish Priest had to deny her the parochial hall and then The Bush hotel had to backtrack on their agreement.

    There'll be tiki torches getting returned to Homestore shops tomorrow.


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