Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

DelaneyIn

The Nal wrote: »

Lets ignore the huge amount of highly educated and skilled professionals who work for large US companies here. All paying tax on their large salaries.

People can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.

The majority of Africans in Ireland don’t work. Why are we allowing in so many non EU nationals to live off the state?

I thought non Eu workers had to get a work visa to stay here.

The employment rate for Africans in Ireland was also very low at 45%

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1107/1009164-esri_migrants/

jjmcclure

Irishman80 wrote: »

We haven't had any significant wage inflation in the West for 40 years. That didn't stop the flight of jobs to low wage economies.

One of the biggest issues facing working people in the West is stagnant wages. Wages that dont keep up with productivity simply means that productivity gains are going to the 1%. This is one of the most important reasons for increasing inequality in the West.

Any wage gains have been concentrated for high wage jobs. Again increasing inequality.

Nobody is arguing about the importance of profits for investment. The problem is abnormal profits which leads to unfair wages.

We already live in economies where globalisation, automation, union decline, etc are putting serious pressure on wages. Someone who comes on here and says we should use immigration as another tool to depress wages is the person with the clown knowledge of the economy.

Quick edit: It's interesting you didn't suggest looking at wealth taxes/financial taxes or similar ideas to raise money for social welfare - instead let's depress the bum working classes wages to pay for it.

Kinda contradicted yourself and proved my point. If businesses can have the same work done somewhere less expensive they eventually will. The more expensive Ireland becomes the more low skilled/medium skilled jobs will move.



RPA and automation will replace many semi skilled office jobs, this is inevitable. However new jobs will be created.


Average wages in Ireland have risen from approx 36k to just over 40k in 6 years. (2014 to 2019)


Wealth taxes just make the average Joe feel better. in reality they will raise very little revenue as the really wealthy are highly mobile and will just move to another jurisdiction with lower taxes.

Irishman80

jjmcclure wrote: »

Kinda contradicted yourself and proved my point. If businesses can have the same work done somewhere less expensive they eventually will. The more expensive Ireland becomes the more low skilled/medium skilled jobs will move.



RPA and automation will replace many semi skilled office jobs, this is inevitable. However new jobs will be created.


Average wages in Ireland have risen from approx 36k to just over 40k in 6 years. (2014 to 2019)


Wealth taxes just make the average Joe feel better. in reality they will raise very little revenue as the really wealthy are highly mobile and will just move to another jurisdiction with lower taxes.

No. Wages need to follow productivity. If our economy is getting more productive, wages should reflect that. In relative terms, if productivity increases 4% and wages increase 4%, then business doesn't become more expensive. A person is just getting paid his correct real wage.

Irish productivity is amongst the highest in the West for the last 20 years. Wages have not followed our productivity increases.

If we use immigration as a tool to depress wages, what happens:

Wages + Profits = Income
GDP = Income

If we increase productivity of our economy, then:

GDP rises = Income Rises.

If we depress wages while Income rises, then:

Wages (depressed) + Profits (increased) = Income (Increased).

How about just paying the working class what they are owed and stop ripping them off to pay for increased profits?

olestoepoke

davedanon wrote: »

I know we say it mostly in jest, but here it is for real. A Man U supporter that is genuine scum.

Excuse me? Scum? why would you call me that? Explain yourself please.

gmisk

DelaneyIn wrote: »

The majority of Africans in Ireland don’t work. Why are we allowing in so many non EU nationals to live off the state?

I thought non Eu workers had to get a work visa to stay here.



https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1107/1009164-esri_migrants/

Maybe give some more context.

It has found that 16% of Africans living in Ireland are out of work, compared with 4% of people from western European countries.

The employment rate for Africans in Ireland was also very low at 45%, while 66% of Irish nationals were working.

DelaneyIn

gmisk wrote: »

Maybe give some more context.

It has found that 16% of Africans living in Ireland are out of work, compared with 4% of people from western European countries.

The employment rate for Africans in Ireland was also very low at 45%, while 66% of Irish nationals were working.

So how are the 55% entering and financing their stay in the state? The majority aren’t here on work permits.

What is going on?

ArmaniJeanss

DelaneyIn wrote: »

So how are the 55% entering and financing their stay in the state? The majority aren’t here on work permits.

What is going on?

Some of that 55% will be stay-at-home wives (or even husbands, but less likely) in a single-income family. It'll be proportionally higher than for Irish nationals as I think the 'breadwinner & housekeeper' thing is more of a concept amongst African people than Irish.

DelaneyIn

Still staggering that the majority of Africans resident - visa required nationals - don’t work. It shows that our immigration system is a shambles. These people aren’t even breaking even, never mind “paying our pensions.”

In comparison, the Irish unemployment rate in Australia is just 2.4%.

Unemployment among the Irish community in Australia is just 2.4%.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/17/ireland-australia-land-of-plenty

Annasopra

Snickers Man wrote: »

Then why was she speaking?

I went down for a look. Got past the barricades and approached the crowd, but kept a social distance, stayed well clear of the main throng, and left the way I came after about 5 minutes. All that time Gemma was on the stand demanding that our kids be given Hyrdoxochloroquin (or whatever it is that sounds like that) and leading the crowd in chants of "Shame on you!" So it looks like she was very welcome, actually.

Crowd looked like a frightful bunch of low life!

I would estimate its size at about 2,000-2,500 but then I'm not a professional guestimator. Nor does it imply that everybody there was a fan of this movement. I'm certainly not, but as an inner city dweller I like to stroll into town to be entertained by loonies of all shades of opinion. And I form my own.

I missed the BLM one to the US embassy. But that was in the midst of lockdown and I was being a good confined boy.

I don't think Gemma and her loonies have anything sensible, coherent or even justifiable to say. But I think they should be allowed say it, and be subjected to nothing more than the usual crowd control measures (including Covid restrictions) that apply to the rest of us.

Long may they remain a fringe, minority bunch of dribbling loonies.

I dont think Gemma spoke at the weekend. You must have seen someone else speaking.

mikep

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I dont think Gemma spoke at the weekend. You must have seen someone else speaking.

It could have been the barrister Una McGurk:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0824/1161052-una-mcgurk/

osarusan

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Ireland

How come people get turned away at the borders and others need sponsored visas and so on?


Calling what Ireland has 'unrestricted immigration' is a joke, a perfect example of somebody making a ridiculous exaggeration to extremes because it suits a narrative.

enricoh

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Still staggering that the majority of Africans resident - visa required nationals - don’t work. It shows that our immigration system is a shambles. These people aren’t even breaking even, never mind “paying our pensions.”

In comparison, the Irish unemployment rate in Australia is just 2.4%.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/17/ireland-australia-land-of-plenty

Our highly prized and highly skilled doctors, nurses, engineers head to Australia sick of paying higher taxes to pay our welfare bill.

We replace them with people that will add to our welfare bill! What could possibly go wrong!!

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

Our highly prized and highly skilled doctors, nurses, engineers head to Australia sick of paying higher taxes to pay our welfare bill.

We replace them with people that will add to our welfare bill! What could possibly go wrong!!

Plenty of highly skilled engineers who are happy to stay in Ireland. Eg I'm a software engineer and my salary is high and the industry has plenty of non Irish workers. The market is competitive in terms of quality. My taxes are high but don't hugely mind.

All the other professions you've listed tend to be poorly paid and poorly treated. They're not leaving because of taxes, it's just we pay them like **** and overwork them in many cases. Nothing to do with the dreaded foreigners tbh. For example, I have five years in my industry. I'll be paid a hell of a lot more than a nurse or a teacher with the same length of experience. Both offering incredibly important services.

I see sheep

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Still staggering that the majority of Africans resident - visa required nationals - don’t work. It shows that our immigration system is a shambles. These people aren’t even breaking even, never mind “paying our pensions.”

In comparison, the Irish unemployment rate in Australia is just 2.4%.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/17/ireland-australia-land-of-plenty

Are you obsessed with Africans? :pac:

TaurenDruid

enricoh wrote: »

Our highly prized and highly skilled doctors, nurses, engineers head to Australia sick of paying higher taxes to pay our welfare bill.

We replace them with people that will add to our welfare bill! What could possibly go wrong!!

Have you been to a hospital or nursing home lately? Like, in the last 20, 30 years?

Our health service would collapse if it was not for immigrant healthcare professionals.

And the people I know who've headed to Oz didn't go because of higher taxes here, either.

AngryHippie

I see sheep wrote: »

Are you obsessed with Africans? :pac:

what if they are South Africans, and are white ?

micosoft

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Still staggering that the majority of Africans resident - visa required nationals - don’t work. It shows that our immigration system is a shambles. These people aren’t even breaking even, never mind “paying our pensions.”

In comparison, the Irish unemployment rate in Australia is just 2.4%.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/17/ireland-australia-land-of-plenty

No. It demonstrates nothing of the sort. I find it staggering you are incapable of asking the simple question "Why" and seemingly incapable of deriving any insight into banner figures.

What is does show is that people who are fleeing conflict/extreme poverty from a poorer country will struggle to gain employment in Ireland competing with natives who have every benefit going for them.

To help develop some level of sorely lacking empathy you might look at social welfare claims in GB during the sixties and seventies and the enormous hurdles the "lazy Irish" found when they sought unemployment there. https://www.runnymedetrust.org/bgIrishCommunity.html

You are using the exact same arguments used against the Irish. Frankly the hypocrisy from some posters who don't realise Ireland is just two generations away from being "that African" in England and other countries despite having many more advantages than Africans - native English speakers, good education system, existing diaspora (how many Irish got jobs from fellow Irish when they went abroad). Not mindlessly repeating "stats" to triumphantly claim "I'm not racist cause I has data" trope.

micosoft

Snickers Man wrote: »

I don't think Gemma and her loonies have anything sensible, coherent or even justifiable to say. But I think they should be allowed say it, and be subjected to nothing more than the usual crowd control measures (including Covid restrictions) that apply to the rest of us.

Long may they remain a fringe, minority bunch of dribbling loonies.

The problem is that didn't work in America or indeed the UK.

It's a paradox but in order to build a tolerant society you must not tolerate the intolerant.

enricoh

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Have you been to a hospital or nursing home lately? Like, in the last 20, 30 years?

Our health service would collapse if it was not for immigrant healthcare professionals.

And the people I know who've headed to Oz didn't go because of higher taxes here, either.

Yep, a good asset to our country. Africans on 45% employment - no thanks. Roma gypsies on an even lower percentage and the associated crime - thanks but no thanks.
A points based skills assessment for immigrants like the UK asap - before even more bums set their sights on Ireland's welfare state.

micosoft

enricoh wrote: »

Yep, a good asset to our country. Africans on 45% employment - no thanks. Roma gypsies on an even lower percentage and the associated crime - thanks but no thanks.
A points based skills assessment for immigrants like the UK asap - before even more bums set their sights on Ireland's welfare state.

It still doesn't address the fact that Immigrants do the jobs the Irish won't do.

I don't recall the Irish being made do a points system going to America or the UK?

Odelay

micosoft wrote: »

It still doesn't address the fact that Immigrants do the jobs the Irish won't do.

I don't recall the Irish being made do a points system going to America or the UK?

No? They had to go through an interview process for the us.

The_Kew_Tour

micosoft wrote: »

It still doesn't address the fact that Immigrants do the jobs the Irish won't do.

I don't recall the Irish being made do a points system going to America or the UK?

What jobs wont Irish people do?

TaurenDruid

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What jobs wont Irish people do?

Minister for Agriculture.

Broadstone Bob

micosoft wrote: »

It still doesn't address the fact that Immigrants do the jobs the Irish won't do.

I don't recall the Irish being made do a points system going to America or the UK?

I'm also curious to know what these jobs are.
Also how much the hourly rate is would be interesting.

limitedIQ

In old Folks homes, the domestic staff (cleaners, porters) are all non-Irish and probably the majority of HCA's are also non-Irish.

These places could not run without them.

Broadstone Bob

limitedIQ wrote: »

In old Folks homes, the domestic staff (cleaners, porters) are all non-Irish and probably the majority of HCA's are also non-Irish.

These places could not run without them.

Most likely casual contracts and minimum wage.
There is no jobs that Irish people will not do. There is of course wages and conditions that Irish people will not except.

Infini

micosoft wrote: »

The problem is that didn't work in America or indeed the UK.

It's a paradox but in order to build a tolerant society you must not tolerate the intolerant.

Its an ironic statement of course but at the same time "You cant argue with idiots, they just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

Truth is while most protests should be allowed for genuine gievances, they shouldnt allow these terminally stupid ratlickers spread their blatent lies and BS. They're essentially spreading lies and conspiracies because they're too willfully stupid to accept reality and facts. You cannot reason with these fools only deal with them.

These same eejits would likely be the ones who spread the virus deliberately too and they're deserve all the anger and spite thrown at them for putting others at risk.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What jobs wont Irish people do?

binman for starters

A lot of service industries struggle to recruit sufficient numbers in Ireland so have recruitment abroad. Butlers for example recruits in Croatia

McDonalds and Burgerking struggled for years to get native English speakers.

Aldi and Lidl staff are predominantly non-Irish

Infini

Infini wrote: »

Truth is while most protests should be allowed for genuine gievances, they shouldnt allow these terminally stupid ratlickers spread their blatent lies and BS. They're essentially spreading lies and conspiracies because they're too willfully stupid to accept reality and facts. You cannot reason with these fools only deal with them.
.

I wholeheartedly agree with you....

You are talking about BLM right?

dan1895

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What jobs wont Irish people do?

Fruit picking for Keelings