Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

banie01

Stephen15 wrote: »

The National Party were only registered recently a few months. There is a lot involved in this country in setting up a political party from scratch. My point was why are there so many protests and people unhappy with these groups if they are such a small minority of people. Since there's only 20 people protesting at Google why is there a need for a counter demonstration.

That they chose to register recently speaks very well to the point I raised regarding competence.

It is IMO demonstrative of political incompetence to found a political party in November 2016, yet leave until April 2019 to actually register?
Who waits until a month prior to an election to register a party they have been running for 2 and a half years?

MarquisDeSad

banie01 wrote: »

jackboy wrote: »

Depends what you mean by right. A lot of people would consider Fine Gael to be significantly right of center. If you are talking about far right, there is very little history of this in Ireland.

It's fairly evident what right I mean from both the examples Stephen15 gave, and I gave in my reply.

I'd agree with you that in an Irish sense FG are a "rightist" party.
In the sense that they traditionally support business, lower tax for higher earners and what would generally be considered regressive/restrictive social welfare and health policies versus FF.
However in no way are they anything more than a slightly more business friendly centrist party.

The right being referred to by Stephen and I is that rightist nonsense that relies on identity politics rather than coherent policy.
The left is almost as bad with the rush to grabbing socialism and making each point of the right a bone of contention and confrontation.

We have a fairly narrow political spectrum and our main left/right parties fall either side of centre.

If the support Stephen claims is there for the extreme views he and others on this thread have espoused, actually exists?
Where is it?
Where is the groundswell?

Stephen thinks fine gael are fascists. Yet he supports a fascist by the name of Justin Barrett.

jackboy

banie01 wrote: »

The right being referred to by Stephen and I is that rightist nonsense that relies on identity politics rather than coherent policy.
The left is almost as bad with the rush to grabbing socialism and making each point of the right a bone of contention and confrontation.

It is pretty clear that the far right are not getting traction in Ireland, there is no tradition for it. However, the far left are getting traction. The far left are just as dangerous as the far right. The far left are more insidious though, a lot of the basic ideas appear beneficial for society. It always ends horrifically though, just like the far right.

banie01

jackboy wrote: »

The far left are just as dangerous as the far right. The far left are more insidious though, a lot of the basic ideas appear beneficial for society. It always ends horrifically though, just like the far right.

I don't disagree
They are quicker to gather support as a reaction but IMHO, they are just as dangerous.

People seem to forget that many of our most vicious terrorists here in Ireland during the troubles were proponents of Marxist theory.

Stephen15

Overheal wrote: »

What is wrong with counter demonstration?

I don't see the point on it. I thought the "far right" were a tiny minority what's the point on protesting a tiny minority

Annasopra

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't see the point on it. I thought the "far right" were a tiny minority what's the point on protesting a tiny minority

In order to halt the growth of fascist hatred

banie01

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't see the point on it. I thought the "far right" were a tiny minority what's the point on protesting a tiny minority

What's the point in that minority protesting in the 1st place?
A demonstration of their right to free speech?

Surely anyone who holds an opinion counter to Gemma's is just as entitled to vocalise their opinion and indeed of they can attract a bigger crowd, can demonstrate the popular support for the contrary stance?

Why are you, Gemma and Co against other people expressing their right to free speech in exactly the same manner as she has?

Does her right to free speech trump everyone else's?

Stephen15

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

In order to halt the growth of fascist hatred

I assume your referring to Gemma and the NPs views. So your telling me there is an appetite for them that must be shut down.

I haven't heard any fascist hatred from her supporters myself but perhaps you could enlighten me.

Stephen15

banie01 wrote: »

What's the point in that minority protesting in the 1st place?
A demonstration of their right to free speech?

Surely anyone who holds an opinion counter to Gemma's is just as entitled to vocalise their opinion and indeed of they can attract a bigger crowd, can demonstrate the popular support for the contrary stance?

Why are you, Gemma and Co against other people expressing their right to free speech in exactly the same manner as she has?

Does her right to free speech trump everyone else's?

I never said they're not entitled to hold a counter demonstration that's not my problem I was just questioning their motives behind the protests just many people have been questionings Gemma's motives.

banie01

Stephen15 wrote: »

I never said they're not entitled to hold a counter demonstration that's not my problem I was just questioning their motives behind the protests just many people have been questionings Gemma's motives.

Well Gemma's motive seems to be xenophobia, homophobia and odd conspiracy beliefs coupled with a strange demand to seek to compel a private company to give her a platform to broadcast despite her breaching that company's terms of service.

The motive of the counter march seems to be to show those most affected and maligned by Gemma's vitriol, that they are not alone and that they are supported?

What's wrong with that?

whippet

Stephen15 wrote: »

I never said they're not entitled to hold a counter demonstration that's not my problem I was just questioning their motives behind the protests just many people have been questionings Gemma's motives.

Their motivation? That’s obvious .. to try and show Gemma and the other 20 or so supporters that they are not welcome and their views are contrary to those held by the vast majority

Stephen15

whippet wrote: »

Their motivation? That’s obvious .. to try and show Gemma and the other 20 or so supporters that they are not welcome and their views are contrary to those held by the vast majority

But are they really in the majority? Any counter protests they've had has been the same size if not smaller than Gemma's protest. You say that as if there's going to be a massive protest with every man, woman and child coming to rally against Gemma's "hate".

whippet

Stephen15 wrote: »

But are they really in the majority? Any counter protests they've had has been the same size if not smaller than Gemma's protest. You say that as if there's going to be a massive protest with every man, woman and child coming to rally against Gemma's "hate".

Read what I wrote again

Debating with you is like trying to reason with a toddler in A toy store.

I never mentioned anything about the size of the counter protest .. but I will stand by the ‘fact’ that the vast majority of people do not support Gemma’s beliefs .. the passing of the same sex referendum .. repealing the 8th .. etc prove that her views are not supported by the majority ... but don’t let facts get in the way of your need to try and justify your own beliefs and moral compass

You are quite welcome to have your own beliefs but just don’t expect society as a whole to agree or support you.

batgoat

Stephen15 wrote: »

But are they really in the majority? Any counter protests they've had has been the same size if not smaller than Gemma's protest. You say that as if there's going to be a massive protest with every man, woman and child coming to rally against Gemma's "hate".

Well, simple gauge. The last elections we had were European and local, neither resulted in extreme candidates getting elected. There is absolutely no indication that Gemma represents anyone outside of a few conspiracy theorists and Rohan Croft style guys.

Stephen15

batgoat wrote: »

Well, simple gauge. The last elections we had were European and local, neither resulted in extreme candidates getting elected. There is absolutely no indication that Gemma represents anyone outside of a few conspiracy theorists and Rohan Croft style guys.

Because no ever heard of her. She didn't get the same coverage as other candidates likewise Ben Gilroy and Hermann Kelly barely anyone hear what they had to say

banie01

Stephen15 wrote: »

Because no ever heard of her. She didn't get the same coverage as other candidates likewise Ben Gilroy and Hermann Kelly barely anyone hear what they had to say

Noone ever heard of her?
Despite her previous journalistic endeavours?
Despite her previous efforts to gain a nomination for the Presidential election?

Same with Gilroy, actually known as a crank and had more newspaper inches than most politicians over the years his been active.

Cut the revisionist bolloxology and lies.
She and they were a known quantity, and have been roundly rejected.

Overheal

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't see the point on it. I thought the "far right" were a tiny minority what's the point on protesting a tiny minority

What’s the point in protesting a tiny minority of migrants?

Overheal

Stephen15 wrote: »

But are they really in the majority? Any counter protests they've had has been the same size if not smaller than Gemma's protest. You say that as if there's going to be a massive protest with every man, woman and child coming to rally against Gemma's "hate".

Well Christ, Zordon didn’t deploy the Megazord to dispatch putties. There is such a thing as a measured response.

Stephen15

banie01 wrote: »

Noone ever heard of her?
Despite her previous journalistic endeavours?
Despite her previous efforts to gain a nomination for the Presidential election?

Cut the revisionist bolloxology and lies.
She was a known quantity, and has been roundly rejected.

Well I for one never heard of her until recently. I couldn't name very many journalists in newspapers either apart from some of the bigger names like Fintan O'Toole. Maybe people heard the name but don't know her views

Stephen15

Overheal wrote: »

Well Christ, Zordon didn’t deploy the Megazord to dispatch putties. There is such a thing as a measured response.

???

banie01

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well I for one never heard of her until recently. I couldn't name very many journalists in newspapers either apart from some of the bigger names like Fintan O'Toole. Maybe people heard the name but don't know her views

So because you are poorly informed the entirety of their electorates were?

You do know the point of a political campaign is to get your candidate out there, to spread your policies, engage in debate and grow your profile and convince people that you are worth a vote and that you can represent the electorate?

Those candidates you have mentioned all failed to do that.
They failed to convince enough people that their policies were worth a vote.
Indeed given we have a transferable vote system, many voters deliberately chose not to give them any preference at all.

That speaks volumes to the appeal of their policies.

batgoat

Stephen15 wrote: »

Because no ever heard of her. She didn't get the same coverage as other candidates likewise Ben Gilroy and Hermann Kelly barely anyone hear what they had to say

Eh, other people who people hadn't heard of prior to the elections got on well. It's pretty normal.. Stephen, you're struggling to explain their absolute failure.

Stephen15

banie01 wrote: »

So because you are poorly informed the entirety of their electorates were?

You do know the point of a political campaign is to get your candidate out there, to spread your policies, engage in debate and grow your profile and convince people that you are worth a vote and that you can represent the electorate?

Those candidates you have mentioned all failed to do that.
They failed to convince enough people that their policies were worth a vote.
Indeed given we have a transferable vote system, many voters deliberately chose not to give them any preference at all.

That speaks volumes to the appeal of their policies.

Did they have the resources or the funding to get their views across? You say that as if it was a level playing field which it's not all the mainstream political parties receive state funding to run their campaigns parties on the fringes do not.

Stephen15

batgoat wrote: »

Eh, other people who people hadn't heard of prior to the elections got on well. It's pretty normal.. Stephen, you're struggling to explain their absolute failure.

Like who? They were all attached to mainstream political parties

banie01

Stephen15 wrote: »

Did they have the resources or the funding to get their views across? You say that as if it was a level playing field which it's not all the mainstream political parties receive state funding to run their campaigns parties on the fringes do not.

Did any of the independent candidates anywhere who garnered more votes than them?

They had time and compared to many other candidates quite significant national profiles.
Gemma and Gilroy in particular are and have been well known for quite a few years.

They went to the people and failed, catastrophically to gain a mandate.
Now you seem to be claiming that those who were elected had greater resources?

That ignores the simple fact that many voter deliberately chose not to give those candidates any preference, not even the last 1.

Are you seriously now claiming that Gemma, Ben and co suffered from a lack of resources?
The same Gemma that has taken on a 4K per month apartment?
The same Ben that holidays for months at a time in the US?

Were out resourced and out campaigned by local issue candidates?

Really?

batgoat

And she had a public profile that she created, it consisted of claiming Veronica Guerin was murdered by the Irish political elite with zero basis. So rightfully she was regarded as a loon. The likes of Peter O Loughlin was on his second run to be an MEP. He was known. Just known as a racist loon.

Turns out racist loons get on terribly here. The claims of a growing anti immigrant stance in Ireland reminds me of the silent majority promised in the last two referenda.

banie01

batgoat wrote: »

And she had a public profile that she created, it consisted of claiming Veronica Guerin was murdered by the Irish political elite with zero basis. So rightfully she was regarded as a loon. The likes of Peter O Loughlin was on his second run to be an MEP. He was known. Just known as a racist loon.

Turns out racist loons get on terribly here. The claims of a growing anti immigrant stance in Ireland reminds me of the silent majority promised in the last two referenda.

Imagine not being able to get elected when Luke Flanagan can be?
That Ming is seen as a more competent pair of hands by voters than any of the "save Ireland" crew.

The same Ming who has run as an independent and won a mandate in 2 local elections and 2 European elections without much in the way of resourcing, support or a political party, or a journalism career, or a huge amount of publicity from being a professional protester alá Ben?

Imagine Luke who funnily enough managed to get elected twice in what is easily the electorate in Ireland most amenable to the Xenophobic shíte spouted by the Gemma/Gilroy/ACI axis.

Sitting there wondering how he has a mandate, when the save Ireland crew struggle to even get deposits returned!?!

batgoat

banie01 wrote: »

Imagine not being able to get elected when Luke Flanagan can be?
That Ming is seen as a more competent pair of hands by voters than any of the "save Ireland" crew.

The same Ming who has run as an independent and won a mandate in 2 local elections and 2 European elections without much in the way of resourcing, support or a political party.
Who funnily enough managed to get elected twice in what is easily the electorate in Ireland most amenable to the Xenophobic ****e spouted by the Gemma/Gilroy/ACI axis.

Or Mick Wallace... Like we have a history of independents getting elected... Unfortunately those two are the really crappy ones.

banie01

batgoat wrote: »

Or Mick Wallace... Like we have a history of independents getting elected... Unfortunately those two are the really crappy ones.

Mick Wallace!
I forgot about the bould Mick!
And Clare Daly too actually, those well supported political animals :pac:

Jesus, the fact that they were trusted more than those who are trying to "save Ireland" speaks volumes.:pac:

Anyone know how much it costs to advertise on Dublin bus, and how she could afford it.

Quick search so far only shows costs in the U.K.at 500+ a week back in 2016.