Chinese atrocities = silence?

Bobblehats

Confucius says: “silence is the greatest atrocity of all”

Franz Von Peppercorn II

kowloon wrote: »

Story time! You can't leave it at that.

That’s it really. They weren’t all talking sh1t about the government in hidden places or in hushed rooms but in public. Well in people’s houses, at meals etc. Critical of corruption. Of some laws. Of internet restrictions. Of certain politicans. No fear of the door being knocked down for that. Yes if they became famous or a threat to the regime there’s a problem. Yes, minority groups have a problem.

That doesn’t mean they want a full democracy (there are competitive elections but most candidates are affliated to the communist party)

Juries out on the success of multi party democracy as far as the Chinese are concerned, too soon to tell.

auspicious

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48825090

ohnonotgmail

auspicious wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48825090

that link throws up a security threat warning for me. click on it at your own peril.

auspicious

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that link throws up a security threat warning for me. click on it at your own peril.

Maybe you're searching from within China...
Story on BBC News main page.

riffmongous

auspicious wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48825090

Came here to post that too, absolutely monstrous. Ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide.

Is there anything that can be done?

ohnonotgmail

auspicious wrote: »

Maybe you're searching from within China...
Story on BBC News main page.

the security cert on the BBC homepage had expired. they seem to have fixed it.

Potential-Monke

Because it's not mainstream enough for people to get offended by it.

JohnnyFlash

riffmongous wrote: »

Is there anything that can be done?

Not really. People want to buy cheap goods, and China produces them. They’ve a seat on the UN Security Council as well. They’ve been doing similar in Tibet for 40 or more years now and it hasn’t caused that much condemnation. The focus in Ireland is on Palestine, and not the Uyghurs. Sure we even turn a blind eye to the creeping colonialisation of Africa by the Chinese.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Not really. People want to buy cheap goods, and China produces them. They’ve a seat on the UN Security Council as well. They’ve been doing similar in Tibet for 40 or more years now and it hasn’t caused that much condemnation. The focus in Ireland is on Palestine, and not the Uyghurs. Sure we even turn a blind eye to the creeping colonialisation of Africa by the Chinese.

Ireland turns blind eye on chinese imperialism.

The opposite of the Skibereen Eagle.

Anyway i don’t think either western or Chinese companies are colonising places by employing people in factories.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

What do the Africans think.

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2016/11/03/africa/what-africans-really-think-of-china/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F

Largely positive.

According to a recent report by Afrobarometer, almost two-thirds (63%) of Africans say China's influence is somewhat positive or very positive, while only 15% see it as somewhat or very negative.

ohnonotgmail

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

What do the Africans think.

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2016/11/03/africa/what-africans-really-think-of-china/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F

Largely positive.

will they feel the same when they have to give up their natural resources to repay chinese loans?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

will they feel the same when they have to give up their natural resources to repay chinese loans?

Will they feel the same when the stuff you say will happen probably won’t happen because you don’t know much about it? Who knows? Probably not if that actually does happen but I don’t really think you know the terms of the deals.

This isn’t about western opposition to chinese imperialism but opposition to China itself.

China in fact isn’t the largest investor in Africa. It’s 4th. The US is first.

https://qz.com/africa/1451768/us-still-leads-china-in-fdi-investments-in-africa/

Will the Africans still be happy with US investment when they have to sell their children into slavery to pay back the loans?

Probably not, but then I also made up that requirement in the debt repayment.

ohnonotgmail

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Will they feel the same when the stuff you say will happen probably won’t happen because you don’t know much about it? Who knows? Probably not if that actually does happen but I don’t really think you know the terms of the deals.

This isn’t about western opposition to chinese imperialism but opposition to China itself.

China in fact isn’t the largest investor in Africa. It’s 4th. The US is first.

https://qz.com/africa/1451768/us-still-leads-china-in-fdi-investments-in-africa/

Will the Africans still be happy with US investment when they have to sell their children into slavery to pay back the loans?

Probably not, but then I also made up that requirement in the debt repayment.

I said loans not investment.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I said loans not investment.

Right then. And the sources you have for the terms of those loans?

ohnonotgmail

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Right then. And the sources you have for the terms of those loans?

why do i need sources for specific terms? the loans have to be repaid. how do you think african countries can do that?

auspicious

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why do i need sources for specific terms? the loans have to be repaid. how do you think african countries can do that?

e.g.
There are fears that Kenya could potentially lose the Port of Mombasa to the Chinese government if the government-owned Kenya Railways Corporation (KRC) defaults on a substantial payment owed to Exim Bank. Also still in question is the real cost and whether Kenya overpaid for the railway project.
https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/the-chinese-railways-remolding-east-africa/

Back on topic:
The world won't do anything about the plight of Uighurs. Better a re-education camp than a concentration camp....

Franz Von Peppercorn II

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why do i need sources for specific terms? the loans have to be repaid. how do you think african countries can do that?

So you expect the loans to not work? The way loans are paid back is normally with the increase in earnings or productivity generated by the loans. Africa is growing pretty well.

The west has been loaning to Africa for years, of course.

Odhinn

auspicious wrote: »

e.g.
There are fears that Kenya could potentially lose the Port of Mombasa to the Chinese government if the government-owned Kenya Railways Corporation (KRC) defaults on a substantial payment owed to Exim Bank. Also still in question is the real cost and whether Kenya overpaid for the railway project.
https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/the-chinese-railways-remolding-east-africa/

Back on topic:
The world won't do anything about the plight of Uighurs. Better a re-education camp than a concentration camp....

As a member of the UNSC China can veto actions against it. Being an autocracy that fosters a fierce nationalism, dissapproval across the world probably counts for naught.

Jelle1880

Maybe OP needs to read more than the Sun.

There's plenty of criticism towards China, the problem is that they don't give a **** and are too big to really be taken to task on those things.

archer22

China for most of it's history wanted nothing to do with the outside world.

They once even built a great fleet to explore but then scrapped it after they saw what was out there.

But their wish to left alone wasn't respected and foreign empire after foreign empire came crashing in on them causing mayhem and humiliation.

So eventually they decided they had no choice but to interact with the outside world which wouldn't leave them alone and to build up their country and make it strong.

Maybe those who are worried about China now should have bloody well left them alone in the first place!