Free Masons, a secret society?

skooterblue2

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So the Knights and the Masons are social clubs for the lads to tell durty jokes, rather than anything to do with good works or charitable purposes - good to know.

Just all seems a bit 1970s to me.

No, infact it will be suggested you find another organisation if you pursue that line of conversation. You seem to failed to reach the level of maturity needed to arrive at candidate stage. Women like to talk about things that interest women, men like to talk about things that interest men. I get you dont get all these social caveates that ordinary people get and the reason for them. Both the knights and the Masons do their charity in private. It is rare you will be aware of it. The closest you would have seen would the TLC bears.

Loads of famous masons who have passed to the great lodge gave their charity in private, it only became knowledge after their deaths.

This is not an organisation for you as you do not meet the conditions for being a candidate. I suggest we are done here.

skooterblue2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he said

i see nothing there that suggest they dont also do charitable works. It is possible for a society to fulfill many aims.

We give donations to SVP. The Alzheimer's charity Forgetmenots are masonic symbols, we sponsor education, widows and boys and girls clubs. Those children often return to the organisation as members. Can you find the SKY documentary on the United Grand Lodge of England opening its doors would give you an insight to the workings and structures of the organisation?

listermint

For someone who claims to have a high intelligence quotient and portraying themselves in here as having the most superior moral standards. You have an awfully dim view of women over in the Qatar thread.

Sounds like misogyny is one of the membership criteria.

skooterblue2

listermint wrote: »

For someone who claims to have a high intelligence quotient and portraying themselves in here as having the most superior moral standards. You have an awfully dim view of women over in the Qatar thread.

Sounds like misogyny is one of the membership criteria.

The target over there was the Qatari establishment not the women. adjust your sights mate.

My private thoughts have no bearing on my membership. You are also not permitted to talk politics within the Lodge.

Misogyny is not a part of lodge as we have relief for widows and any man who was not moral about women would be denied membership. Seen it happen.

listermint

skooterblue2 wrote: »

The target over there was the Qatari establishment not the women. adjust your sights mate.

My private thoughts have no bearing on my membership. You are also not permitted to talk politics within the Lodge.

Interesting thought process. I saw laying the personal blame for transiting through a nation to reach another destination at their feet.

I guess there's different shades of morality.

A club that allows such view points as members is probably not worth ones while.

skooterblue2

listermint wrote: »

Interesting thought process. I saw laying the personal blame for transiting through a nation to reach another destination at their feet.

I guess there's different shades of morality.

A club that allows such view points as members is probably not worth ones while.

The view point is my own and personal about Qatar. The GLI does not have a public opinion on the matter or comment publicly on any other political matter. Do not confuse the issues.

listermint

But were you not previously regaling us of tales of individuals that failed to gain membership for their moral standards and their juvenility.

I mean this comes at odds to blaming women for taking a plane and having the audacity of it transiting through another country.

I'd argue that perhaps the validation of members isn't up to scratch. The notion that you've portrayed of vitally upstanding individuals only allowed doesn't really bear fruit.

skooterblue2

listermint wrote: »

But were you not previously regaling us of tales of individuals that failed to gain membership for their moral standards and their juvenility.

I mean this comes at odds to blaming women for taking a plane and having the audacity of it transiting through another country.

I'd argue that perhaps the validation of members isn't up to scratch. The notion that you've portrayed of vitally upstanding individuals only allowed doesn't really bear fruit.

I am not addressing this arguent on this thread. take it over to the other thread. End of

AndrewJRenko

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Misogyny is not a part of lodge as we have relief for widows and any man who was not moral about women would be denied membership. Seen it happen.

How do you validate the ongoing morality about women of existing members?

skooterblue2

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How do you validate the ongoing morality about women of existing members?

Not addressing you in this thread. Told you before!

AndrewJRenko

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Not addressing you in this thread. Told you before!

When the going gets tough......

listermint

Peter Sampson wrote: »

Do you also have an issue with the men's shed movement?

I dont see the comaprison tbh, they are open to all. There is no staged selection system of standards required. They are there to help out individuals who need a place to chat and perhaps pick up skills.

I dont see mens shed casting aspersions on other mens education or business acumen let alone moralities...

skooterblue2

listermint wrote: »

I dont see the comaprison tbh, they are open to all. There is no staged selection system of standards required. They are there to help out individuals who need a place to chat and perhaps pick up skills.

I dont see mens shed casting aspersions on other mens education or business acumen let alone moralities...

WEll if you come into mens shed and do nothing you will be asked what are you doing there?. I am sure if you come in and act the bullocks you will be asked to leave, like any organisation.

You dislike displays of education and fair commerce practices? ok!!! Mens shed require you to either to display a skill you can share or be willing to learn skill. Else why are you there?

skooterblue2

Peter Sampson wrote: »

Point is there nothing wrong with men wanting men only spaces.

Like women having hair dressing salons and womens clothes shops and ladies toilets?

AndrewJRenko

Peter Sampson wrote: »

Point is there nothing wrong with men wanting men only spaces.

You're right, there is nothing wrong with men-only spaces.

But these organisations position themselves as charities all about doing the good works. Whereas the reality shows that they are really all about provide a space for the lads to snigger over durty jokes.

skooterblue2 wrote: »

WEll if you come into mens shed and do nothing you will be asked what are you doing there?. I am sure if you come in and act the bullocks you will be asked to leave, like any organisation.

You dislike displays of education and fair commerce practices? ok!!! Mens shed require you to either to display a skill you can share or be willing to learn skill. Else why are you there?

Will the Mens Sheds lads try to judge your morality when joining?

listermint

Peter Sampson wrote: »

Point is there nothing wrong with men wanting men only spaces.

Interesting, because I never said that there was.

Why would that be your first conclusion ?

Im drawing lines here between the smugness of a membership requirement versus existing members worldly outlook.

Point being, An organisation priding itself on secret acts of good deeds perhaps should vet smug members acting smug and being smug about the vetting process.

i.e education,age, morality or financial well being and we wont even get into the supposed having children that are still living at home...

3d4life

Peter Sampson wrote: »

Point is there nothing wrong with men wanting men only spaces.

Did I ever tell ye about the time a enquired about getting my mother into a nursing home that ...







turned out to be for old priests...

skooterblue2

listermint wrote: »

I

i.e education,age, morality or financial well being and we wont even get into the supposed having children that are still living at home...

Education: You need to be able to read and write. You cannot sign any document you cannot understand.
Age: you need to be 21 or over, 18 in certain circumstances. We recruit men who can make that decision. Character is not fully formed until after the age of 21, sometimes longer.
Financial well being: If you cant afford the fees whats the point in joining any organisation???? I dont think they are that bad, we just ask do you think you can afford €x per year? Its not like we get CAB to track them down.
Children at home is not a factor.
Its entry is no different to any club.

What club/association are you in that does not require members to pay fees?
What club/association are you in that does not require members to ballot?
What club/association are you in that does not require members to prove suitability?
What club/association are you in that does not require members to do some activity?

AndrewJRenko

skooterblue2 wrote: »

What club/association are you in that does not require members to pay fees?
What club/association are you in that does not require members to ballot?
What club/association are you in that does not require members to prove suitability?
What club/association are you in that does not require members to do some activity?

Judging the morality of potential members towards the opposite sex is a fairly unique approach for any club that I've come across.

Do people need to give regular pledges of faithfulness or how do ensure that they aren't having a bit on the side?

skooterblue2

3d4life wrote: »

Did I ever tell ye about the time a enquired about getting my mother into a nursing home that ...

turned out to be for old priests...

You didnt tell us if she got in?

3d4life

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You didnt tell us if she got in?

I doubt that even a mason could have squared that

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

What club/association are you in that does not require members to pay fees?
What club/association are you in that does not require members to ballot?
What club/association are you in that does not require members to prove suitability?
What club/association are you in that does not require members to do some activity?

Hi Listermint,
I understand you may be busy with other items.

You do understand in life you have to pay fees to every organisation you are part of? My friend is a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, I believe it is a great organisation for people who wish to cease drinking alcohol. It is free but when they are finished at the end of the night, they make a contribution for the use of the hall and to pay for tea and coffee. They recognise there is an exchange and they both give and get something back. Even Man United have a membership pack, else you are just someone who just watches the games.

The order is a private members club with charity functions. We do not receive nor petition money from the government or any governments. We have to pay rent or own and maintain our own buildings as well as rates. Maintenance has to be done (who want to hear about flat roofs?). Building have to be heated even when they are not in use (Masonic halls are difficult as they have no windows), painted, electricity. Where do you think all the money from charity comes from? Where do you think the money when Grand Lodge sit outside Dublin comes from? Where do you think all this money comes from? Occasionally that Templar gold has to be replenished. You want a nice ring or apron go buy your own (Winston Churchill famously never paid for his so I have been told).

Balloting, I dont know of any legal organisation with the exception of the Regular Army that does not ballot its members every so often. It is to make sure the organisation is moving in the same direction. Until recently (just taking this as an example) Fine Gael used to have their candidates nominated locally. I believe this is important as local grass roots would know the issue locally and how a candidate would fare at the local polls. This has been changed to nomination from Dublin. Even the Gardai, like you to apply in plenty of time to circulate your name to make sure there is nothing unwritten that is not known about you. I had a cousin who was refused at early stages of the Garda competition. Do I think it was fair? It doesnt matter, it was a long long long time ago, I was not party to the whole story on either side and both parties have done very well without each other. You dont have to be given a reason in anything you apply for. It is an organisations discretion.

Suitability? Have you ever seen the right guy or girl in the right job? Dont they shine? Now have you ever seen the wrong guy in the same job? They are late, their work is shoddy, word gets out that their work is unreliable. There are arguments going on between Unions, Management and staff. Its very easy to get them in but can be tricky to fire them. My wife had an alcoholic on her team at work and the owners couldn't work out how to fire her, safely without it coming back on them. How would you feel about a GAA member who wanted to play ice hockey in the organisation? My wife wishes her boss did interviews like me. You can tell a lot about a person not just from their answers but from their reactions to questions. When I go to an interview as an adjudicator, I have to report back to the whole lodge on what I thought of the candidate and how they would fit in. An 18 year old is legally an adult but far from a matured character as a man. There are a lot of characteristics that have not formed yet. After the age of 26 ever notice how you feel companies stop target you for advertising? This is because most of your life choices have been made and your character, good or bad is formed and you will rarely diverge from that.

Activity? Every organisation has some function else why would it exist? Every organisation has a Sergeant at Arms (or equivalent to set up), a head figure, a secretary to communicate with members. There are structures. You need to recognise these people and their role, you must learn when to speak and when not to. When to stand up and when to sit down. What would you do with someone who didnt know how to behave when told to rise or beseat? or never volunteered for an position or activity or came to practice?

Because I feel I had to write this, I suspect you have no understanding of how a large or small organisation work or the mechanics of it works? Imagine how Freemasonry works world wide? Secretaries talking to each other, Passed Masters at meetings, even the EA unsure how to approach and introduce himself to a MM abroad?. That is perfectly fine. I didnt either and yes I did scrape my knees and I did learn and change my perceptions and behaviour. I carried that experience outside and applied it to another organisation I was part of where I excelled at until I moved on.

Listermint, I am not sure if you are just having a mess with me which is fine, I like reasonable debate or you are very young and have no experience of club committees from university or life experience, which is also fine. I was never on a committee or fraternity before I joined (I did have several years experience of the FCA). Its not an organisation for everyone. It attracts a host of unusual men with weird and wonderful professions. Common perceptions is it just for Doctors, Judges lawyers, engineers, politicians and accountants (ie the upper professions). I have met most of the above but they are a dwindling number. I have met soldiers (retired), shop keepers, taxi drivers, painters, artists, civil servants, teachers, scientists, machinists, social workers, businessmen, loads of computing staff (both network and programming) and farmers. They were far more interesting than the first group.

There is also a correct time to enter in your life. The candidate is usually searching from something in their life that is not catered for. Masonry might be that. I advise candidates to go away and do plenty of research on what they think it is about without reading the rites.

I feel my lot is done here and I wish to go back to labour.

skooterblue2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he said

i see nothing there that suggest they dont also do charitable works. It is possible for a society to fulfill many aims.

Just to elaborate on those subject that you touched on for those who are not familiar with both single sex and mixed company (cant mention any names):

There are subjects men talk about in great detail and enthusiasm. Construction, technology, sports, cars, finance, hunting, maintenance, old service days...... subjects that would bore the hind legs off most women, sure there are the exceptions but by and large, those rules stand.

There are subjects women talk about in great detail and enthusiasm. Fashion, hair and beauty, soaps, baking, theatre, education and child rearing, interior, old school days...... subjects that would bore most men to death, sure there are the exceptions but by and large, those rules stand.

Then there are neutral subjects...... The secret is to not to know your subject but to know your audience.

The only subjects your are forbidden to talk about inside the lodge (building) or at lodge (while meeting) or at tea afterwards are both politics and religion. Almost anything else is fair game. This is because it inevitably causes rows and spoils the ambiance. Of course I would love to have discussion on either but I usually say, "I'll meet you for coffee down town and we can talk about it then". I have seen animated discussion on rugby (all in good nature). Anything outside the building/meeting is your own business.

I have seen a very senior officers daughter loose the run of herself while in visiting and she had to be reminded of where she was when she commented on a very sensitive item in current affairs at the time. She should have known better and was gently reminded of such. I also used to see a member daughter come in for coffee and was reliably informed she was an excellent accountant in the city, she knew the rules and we were always happy to have her as a guest.

topper75

jimgoose wrote: »

Herself had a couple of uncles Masons, it does tend to be more of a Protestant thing around here, but it's open to respectable men of goodwill and of all faiths. Also, gran-daddy bought a big-block Dodge off them for a-runnin' the whiskey.

Selling on used cop cars is quite lucrative judging by the fancy decor.