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Course Management
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TitianGerm wrote: »I don't like sand so I stay out of them :pac:
Could declare it unplayable and take a penalty drop
So when you go in the sand you take a penalty!! Excellent course management
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played a game the other day, par 5, I got a good drive away and left myself about 215 to the pin, bunkers short and right of a small green, pin tucked away . clever shot was to lay up short of the bunkers about 70 yards out and chip in from there.
so I took out a 4 iron and went for it. stuck it to 12 foot. missed the eagle by an inch but a tap in birdie.
some of you guys would have had me playing course management shots where I would have been lucky to make par and bringing bogey into play. by taking on the shot I was not making things any worse for myself, sure I could have ended up in a bunker, but isn't that what a sand wedge is for
I like this example. It's a good example of when you should actually think about the consequences instead of just playing safe.
The crucial thing here is that a bunker isn't the worst place to be. Even when I had a handicap in the 20s, if I was in a bunker I'd more often than not get it out, into the green in the general direction of the hole. So it was usually a spot out and a 2 putt. Not a bad scenario if things go wrong. Whereas if I lay up successfully, I might have to chip over the bunkers. I still hate that shot and there's every chance I'll go into them, or blade it over the green. Or I could lay up further back and leave myself a full wedge into the green. But I'd fancy myself to get it more consistently close from the bunker.
And if course there's always the chance I'll hit the green. And a birdie is worth 4 points off 18.
I suppose the thing to remember is that course management isn't just about playing safe.0 -
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Ive gone back to 19 :rolleyes: but I did join a new club this year and have being working on my course management. I am actually playing well just putting myself in bad positions or having 1 or 2 mares on holes.
Anyway I recently got fitted for a new Driver and 3 wood & was playing my old course in a open last Sunday..
My driving was a bit all over the place as I was very tense holding it for some reason! but I was still scoring & going ok.. I was actually thinking if my driver kicks in I might actually have a chance. Played a few holes Friday and was smashing it but struggling with new 3 wood.
8th hole par 5 dogleg left smashed my drive down to the turn. 230 yds to green im sitting in the middle of the fairway. Trees all down the right you go there you're dead. bunkers & down hill on left there and it take a good shot to hold the green. So I gave it some taught said fcuk it im going for it.
Even doe I haven't hit the new 3 wood great a slowed my swing down a bit didnt catch it perfect but it was straight left it 5 yds short of green chip and tap in birdie
It was totally the wrong shot to play having been in this position loads & pushed it into the trees right many times & scratched. Ended up with 34 pts after with driving all over the shop but I tell you one thing I was buzzing from that birdie on 8 & the 3 wood shot even doe I didnt caught it great...0 -
I thought I'd reply here as I was dragging the other thread off topic. But I quite enjoy talking about course management and myself, so I might as well reply.You probably dont have enough bounce on your LW, you want 12+ really, otherwise you end up digging and the ball will not come out (well it can, but you need to know how to play it!)
If hitting a bunker means at least 3 more shots and often more, then you need to manage your way to avoid bunkers at all costs. That may sound crazy (why would I lay up with an 8i or why am I not aiming for the green) but just look at whats its costing you!
How many times does hitting the green lead to a birdie vs how many times does hitting a bunker lead to a scratch?
What handicap are you and what do you expect to be under the new system?
I reckon the club doesn't have enough bounce. It's actually a great club, but just not for bunkers. But it had more loft so I said I'd give it a go out of them. My normal form in bunkers is to get it onto the green and two putt. So they're not to be avoided at all costs for me, but I do try to avoid them.
And actually, looking at that particular hole on hdid, the last time I scratched it (double or worse) was October 19. Just over a year between scratches and I've had 2 birdies on it.Leaving yourself a distance that you are not good at is bad course management!!!
The previous shot selection was the issue.
I played with a guy last week who thought course management was just not hitting a driver off the tee. He couldnt understand why hitting a 4 iron and then trying to hit the green with his 3 wood wasnt a sensible approach on index 1 par 4
Higher handicaps should take more club when hitting to the green 90% of the time because 95% of the time the trouble is short. I know you had one scenario where there was trouble over the back but if you analyse most holes on most courses, all the trouble is short or at most halfway up the green.
I almost agree fully with the first point. The one cavaet I have is if it is a shot that you cannot avoid having frequently on a course, there's no use avoiding it, because you'll have to hit it sometimes anyway. And the best way to learn it is practicing it. And shots from 100m - 40m I find difficult and there's no avoiding them. The second being a good example - laying up to say 120m is a very tricky landing area compared to 100m. And you will probably be hitting on an upslope. In this case, even with the second shot being difficult for me it's the right option. the 100m or less shot is also unavoidable on the 4th, 6th and 7th.
I also agree that course management is not just playing safe / avoiding the driver. The best hole for me statistically is the 11th in Corballis, where I more often than not try to drive the green. The main reason for this is because I hate the approach shot if I lay up. It's always a bad, sandy lie. You're hitting blind, uphill to the green from a distance I don't like. So I tend to hit a 3/5 wood at the green. I'm rarely putting, but tend to come out with a 4/5 on the hole.
I'm not sure about the higher handicaps should take more club mantra either. 3 of my scratches were from going long. And in my experience, the bunkers tend to be at the front of greens, but the bushes / thick links rough tends to be at the back. So unless there's water at the front, I'd be more nervous of running off the back of the green. It's very rare I'm not aiming for the middle of the green to be honest anyway.
And I'm currently off 14.1. I plugged my rounds into the calculator and came out with 16.8 a little while ago. I think I've had another couple of bad rounds since, so that could be higher now.0 -
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Its the trainspotting of golf, and I love itI thought I'd reply here as I was dragging the other thread off topic. But I quite enjoy talking about course management and myself, so I might as well reply.
Yeah, for years I played with a 60* that only had 4* of bounce as I loved opening it up and cutting the ball in the air.
I reckon the club doesn't have enough bounce. It's actually a great club, but just not for bunkers. But it had more loft so I said I'd give it a go out of them. My normal form in bunkers is to get it onto the green and two putt. So they're not to be avoided at all costs for me, but I do try to avoid them.
And actually, looking at that particular hole on hdid, the last time I scratched it (double or worse) was October 19. Just over a year between scratches and I've had 2 birdies on it.
I had myself convinced that I wouldnt be able to do this with more bounce. Last time I was buying wedges I could only get 12 and 14* there and then, so I just went with it. Has made zero difference to opening it up and has made bunkers and regular chipping easier, its so much harder to duff it.
I dont know the course at all, but this might be one of those rare occasions where not laying up is the better option.
I almost agree fully with the first point. The one cavaet I have is if it is a shot that you cannot avoid having frequently on a course, there's no use avoiding it, because you'll have to hit it sometimes anyway. And the best way to learn it is practicing it. And shots from 100m - 40m I find difficult and there's no avoiding them. The second being a good example - laying up to say 120m is a very tricky landing area compared to 100m. And you will probably be hitting on an upslope. In this case, even with the second shot being difficult for me it's the right option. the 100m or less shot is also unavoidable on the 4th, 6th and 7th.
We have a par 5 where laying up leaves you with a <100M downhill wedge to a raised green with huge drop offs either side and surrounded by bunkers.
Often just hitting enough club for your second to get you through the next of the fairway (its tree lined just in case!) works out better, you might not get the birdie but you have to be pretty unlucky not to get the par.
5th in Grange is the same, its a shortish uphill par 4 with pot bunkers short of the green and either side of it. Its a dogleg right with trees up both sides, but if you are long enough you have to be pretty unlucky to get blocked out. Playing short off the tee leaves you with anywhere from 6-8i to the green. I birdie the hole 25% of the time and par it the rest.
I also agree that course management is not just playing safe / avoiding the driver. The best hole for me statistically is the 11th in Corballis, where I more often than not try to drive the green. The main reason for this is because I hate the approach shot if I lay up. It's always a bad, sandy lie. You're hitting blind, uphill to the green from a distance I don't like. So I tend to hit a 3/5 wood at the green. I'm rarely putting, but tend to come out with a 4/5 on the hole.
hitting a hard driver is the safe shot here.
Links style courses might cause the advice not the ring true, but Id say 90% of parklands have nothing beyond the green on most of the holes, and even if they do, its only an issue if you happen to hit the all perfectly, if that was a problem we'd be off lower handicaps
I'm not sure about the higher handicaps should take more club mantra either. 3 of my scratches were from going long. And in my experience, the bunkers tend to be at the front of greens, but the bushes / thick links rough tends to be at the back. So unless there's water at the front, I'd be more nervous of running off the back of the green. It's very rare I'm not aiming for the middle of the green to be honest anyway.
And I'm currently off 14.1. I plugged my rounds into the calculator and came out with 16.8 a little while ago. I think I've had another couple of bad rounds since, so that could be higher now.
Yeah, you did mention though that you score better elsewhere, so maybe you just need a new strategy for corballis.
Most people who join my club go out 2-3 shots until the figure it out so its not uncommon.0 -
Its the trainspotting of golf, and I love it
Yeah, for years I played with a 60* that only had 4* of bounce as I loved opening it up and cutting the ball in the air.
I had myself convinced that I wouldnt be able to do this with more bounce. Last time I was buying wedges I could only get 12 and 14* there and then, so I just went with it. Has made zero difference to opening it up and has made bunkers and regular chipping easier, its so much harder to duff it.
I dont know the course at all, but this might be one of those rare occasions where not laying up is the better option.
We have a par 5 where laying up leaves you with a <100M downhill wedge to a raised green with huge drop offs either side and surrounded by bunkers.
Often just hitting enough club for your second to get you through the next of the fairway (its tree lined just in case!) works out better, you might not get the birdie but you have to be pretty unlucky not to get the par.
5th in Grange is the same, its a shortish uphill par 4 with pot bunkers short of the green and either side of it. Its a dogleg right with trees up both sides, but if you are long enough you have to be pretty unlucky to get blocked out. Playing short off the tee leaves you with anywhere from 6-8i to the green. I birdie the hole 25% of the time and par it the rest.
hitting a hard driver is the safe shot here.
Links style courses might cause the advice not the ring true, but Id say 90% of parklands have nothing beyond the green on most of the holes, and even if they do, its only an issue if you happen to hit the all perfectly, if that was a problem we'd be off lower handicaps
Yeah, you did mention though that you score better elsewhere, so maybe you just need a new strategy for corballis.
Most people who join my club go out 2-3 shots until the figure it out so its not uncommon.
You must be curious to play it sometime0 -
Its the trainspotting of golf, and I love it
Yeah, for years I played with a 60* that only had 4* of bounce as I loved opening it up and cutting the ball in the air.
I had myself convinced that I wouldnt be able to do this with more bounce. Last time I was buying wedges I could only get 12 and 14* there and then, so I just went with it. Has made zero difference to opening it up and has made bunkers and regular chipping easier, its so much harder to duff it.
5th in Grange is the same, its a shortish uphill par 4 with pot bunkers short of the green and either side of it. Its a dogleg right with trees up both sides, but if you are long enough you have to be pretty unlucky to get blocked out. Playing short off the tee leaves you with anywhere from 6-8i to the green. I birdie the hole 25% of the time and par it the rest.
hitting a hard driver is the safe shot here.
Bounce is your friend, as the saying goes. I find its the heel grind or lack of, that is the main factor for me in the playabilty of a wedge. That said, and its obviously each to their own, but I'm still not convinced club golfers should carry a 60 degree at all. I've only put one in the bag this year really, and I'm very much "meh" about it. I'll probably keep it in for emergency use only, but really a 56 is enough. I'd bet over the course of a season it costs most golfers more shots than it saves. Purely IMO.
Really interesting comment about the 5th in Grange. I'm not a member but have played it plenty of times, from schools golf back in the day, to Senior Cup, Lumsden Cup and social games more recently. By far the most common club I've seen is some class of fairway wood over or around the trees on the right.
Driver does actually make a lot of sense thinking about it now. Especially from a strokes gained perspective, I do think you get up and down more often from 40 yards than 100 yards, despite it not being a "full" shot. Food for thought.0 -
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Its the trainspotting of golf, and I love it
Links style courses might cause the advice not the ring true, but Id say 90% of parklands have nothing beyond the green on most of the holes, and even if they do, its only an issue if you happen to hit the all perfectly, if that was a problem we'd be off lower handicaps
Yeah, you did mention though that you score better elsewhere, so maybe you just need a new strategy for corballis.
Most people who join my club go out 2-3 shots until the figure it out so its not uncommon.
I grew up playing Tramore and there are bushes / trees on 8 holes where if you go to long you'll risk losing a ball in them. There are bunkers on another couple which aren't so bad. Maybe I just go way long when I go long.
And it's just not strategy that's the big problem for me in Corballis. I'm certainly not saying I'm perfect in that regard, but I lose my shots elsewhere. The game I know how to play is not suitable for the course.
The irons are the big difference for me. They were the strongest part of my game - they tended to be straight and long, would stop quickly and I was very consistent with distance (for my handicap of course). Now, I'm not hitting all that many full irons into greens. And even then, since I hit them very high, they're nowhere near as strong in links winds. In particular the higher irons can just start moving at their apex and suddenly they're dropping 30 yards left / right of where I was aiming or dropping way short or flying over a green.
On top of that, the non-full swing shots are everywhere on that course and they're my absolute worst. I'm always losing concentration on them and either hitting before the ball or hitting them thin. Thin means long, means possibly a lost ball. Hitting before the ball is frustrating, but generally not the end of the world.
There's no way for me to lower my scores and become consistent other than learning to hit the shots I need to hit. It's frustrating that I was consistently in the 80s gross in Tramore and now I'm roughly the same gross (probably slightly higher) in Corballis, but it's a par 66 instead of 72.0
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