Father and daughter drown at US border

MrFresh

MrFresh wrote: »

It's not that bizarre. As I said, you don't have to enter illegally to become undocumented. Overstaying a visa can put you in the same position. That's probably why the law was kept that way. They had two years of republican control of the house and senate and presidency. They could have changed it if they wanted.


The concept of laws applying to different stages is also not unusual. In Ireland it's illegal to be on possession of certain drugs but it is not illegal to be intoxicated on those same drugs. Logic would dictate you have to have been in possession before being high but you still can't be prosecuted for that possession.

What exactly is it you're arguing here? And this isn't about children being separated. I want you to spell out your views on illegal immigrants' status and what should happen to them.

MrFresh

Deleted User wrote: »

What exactly is it you're arguing here? And this isn't about children being separated. I want you to spell out your views on illegal immigrants' status and what should happen to them.

Due process and humane treatment.

Outlaw Pete

MrFresh wrote: »

They are not committing a crime.

They may be and the vast majority of illegal aliens are committing a crime by virtue of the fact that they are violating US immigration laws.

Yes, that's 1325 alright. Again, it doesn't change what I said. it is not a criminal offence to be undocumented in the US. They are called illegals by some people.

You said Homan was incorrect, but Homan made his comments in the context of border arrests and those people, to which he was referring, had absolutely committed a crime.

And as I've mentioned a few times, the issue isn't with separation at port of entry. You keep trying to narrow it down to that to avoid the actual issue.

Nope, not avoiding anything, just making an important distinction. Happy to discuss either. You however seem determined to ignore the fact that a crime is committed by those that enter, or attempt to enter, the US illegally.

They aren't pointless. While it is legal to apply for asylum at any point on the border, Trump has decided you won't be granted it unless you apply at a port of entry. So you can legally apply for it, you just have 0% of getting it.

And 0% isn't pointless?? :P

MrFresh

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

They may be and the vast majority of illegal aliens are committing a crime by virtue of the fact that they are violating US immigration laws.

They may have committed a crime when they entered. They are not by simply being undocumented.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You said Homan was incorrect, but Homan made his comments in the context of border arrests and those people, to which he was referring, had absolutely committed a crime.

Zero tolerance did not apply to just border arrests.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Nope, not avoiding anything, just making an important distinction. Happy to discuss either. You however seem determined to ignore the fact that a crime is committed by those that enter, or attempt to enter, the US illegally.

No, I've explicitly stated it.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

And 0% isn't pointless?? :P

You seem a little confused. You said "If it was legal to apply at any point along the border, such queues would be pointless". It is legal to do so and the points of entry are not pointless.

Outlaw Pete

MrFresh wrote: »

They may have committed a crime when they entered. They are not by simply being undocumented.

Illegals are not merely undocumented and to keep referring to them as that, in the context of Homan's remarks, means that what you are doing is removing the context in which he made them and then essentially making a strawman argument.

You seem a little confused. You said "If it was legal to apply at any point along the border, such queues would be pointless". It is legal to do so and the points of entry are not pointless.

Sigh. I never said 'points of entry' were pointless, you even quote me as speaking about the queues in the same damn paparagrah. What are you at here?

Look, you cannot apply for asylum at any point along the border as you stated. You must go to a port of entry. That's why there are month long queues at ports of entry. End of story. Those people that are arrestested between ports are not being arrested for trying to seek asylum, they are being arrested because they are committing a crime.

MrFresh

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Illegals are not merely undocumented and to keep referring to them as that, in the context of Homan's remarks, means that what you are doing is removing the context in which he made them and then essentially making a strawman argument.

Are you relying on some official definition for the term "illegals"?

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Sigh. I never said 'points of entry' were pointless, you even quote me as speaking about the queues in the same damn paparagrah. What are you at here?

Look, you cannot apply for asylum at any point along the border as you stated. You must go to a port of entry. That's why there are month long queues at ports of entry. End of story. Those people that are arrestested between ports are not being arrested for trying to seek asylum, they are being arrested because they are committing a crime.

You can seek asylum at any time. This is the law. You simply won't be granted if you don't seek it at a port of entry. This is Trumps proclamation.

batgoat

That chief border agent who was emotionally testifying a few weeks back was in a secret Facebook group where the staff made jokes about the dead, engaged in racism, misogyny etc. Pretty big contrast to the public persona.

https://theintercept.com/2019/07/12/border-patrol-chief-carla-provost-was-a-member-of-secret-facebook-group/

Outlaw Pete

MrFresh wrote: »

Are you relying on some official definition for the term "illegals"?

Pointless trying to have a discussion with you.

You said Homan was wrong and he was not. You can drag it out as much as you like but it won't make you right.

You can seek asylum at any time. This is the law. You simply won't be granted if you don't seek it at a port of entry.

Look, you're being pedantic. If I say people can order pizzas in McDonald's and someone corrects me and says actually McDonald's don't sell pizza, I can't then just say "Well, I never said anyone would get one, just sayin that they can order one there if they like".

Things have changed. Migrants at the border wanting to seek asylum must go to a port of entry.

This is Trumps proclamation.

Aye and it should have been done years ago and hopefully the rest of what he has in mind will come to pass also:


https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1128986001165230081

MrFresh

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Pointless trying to have a discussion with you.

It is when you can't answer a simple question.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You said Homan was wrong and he was not. You can drag it out as much as you like but it won't make you right.

Having looked back on the video you are correct. I relied on Bambi's transcript as being accurate. Turns out he made it up. Mr Homan was correct, the poster who quoted him was wrong. Apologies for the confusion.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Look, you're being pedantic. If I say people can order pizzas in McDonald's and someone corrects me and says actually McDonald's don't sell pizza, I can't then just say "Well, I never said anyone would get one, just sayin that they can order one there if they like".

Things have changed. Migrants at the border wanting to seek asylum must go to a port of entry.

The law is pedantic. It's one of it's defining characteristics.

Boggles

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1128986001165230081

Apply for Asylum in their own country?

I think poor Lindsey as spent too much time crawled up into the Donald's anus.

Danzy

Boggles wrote: »

Apply for Asylum in their own country?

I think poor Lindsey as spent too much time crawled up into the Donald's anus.

The Asylum process, laws, charters were designed in post WW2, before mass transport, before massive population growth.

That they are even radically top free market for the Republican party tells you all you need to know, labelling them as solidarity etc does not make them any less extreme free market.

Boggles

Danzy wrote: »

The Asylum process, laws, charters were designed in post WW2, before mass transport,

Thought all the scary caravans of people were walking to the border?