Landlord looking for advice.

Dinarius

The lease on the one-bed apartment we let is due for renewal on October 1st.


So, we must give notice of willingness to renew and any rent increase by July 1st.


I just received a call from one of the tenants - they're a couple and, to be fair, they have been ok for the most part for the last four years. Though last year the oven "caught fire" (have you ever bought a cooker that had a flammable part?) and we had to replace the entire cooker. That €600 took out our €50 rent increase entirely.



They noticed some water (a small amount) in the hot-press last week. They thought nothing of it.


This morning, there is a pool of water in the hot-press and our beautiful solid oak floor in the hall next to the hot-press is squelching underfoot.


I am not happy that they didn't tell me about the water last week.


A tank is easily fixed. The floor is a potentially very expensive.


What can I do in a situation like this?


I'm tempted to renew on a monthly lease only, particularly as other things have cropped up in the past just after we resigned for another year.


Thanks.

D.

The Student

They are entitled to stay in the property for six years so you wont be able to renew on a monthly basis (welcome to the landlords world).

You can only terminate the tenancy for one of the three reasons. In my view I think you have a few options either sell the property or have more inspections. For what its worth I would be advising the tenant the cost of the replacement of the floor would be coming out of their deposit.

They have a responsibility to advise you if there are any leaks etc. They are not obliged to fix the leaks but if you don't know they exist how can you mitigate their damage.

If you are going to keep the property I would reiterate to the tenants their responsibilities and get the tenants to pay for the floor damage.

Dinarius

Many thanks for the info.



At what stage did they gain the right to stay in the property for six years?


We were caught napping on the RPZ changes. So, they are currently paying €1250 p/m for a good sized, ground-floor, one-bed apartment in Terenure, with own front door and outside terrace and back garden. Market value would be at least €1500.


We intend raising rent by 4% to €1300 in October. But, we are also tempted to sell into this frothy market.


Thanks again.

D.

The Student

Once they tenancy has passed 6 months (it by be shorter with recent changes but it was 6 months) they are automatically entitled to a six year tenancy.

If you want to PM me with your queries I can answer. I assume you are new to the landlord game so are not fully sure of the ins and outs of the landlord game.

amcalester

When did they move in? Are they on the 4 or 6 year Part IV cycle?

Not renewing their lease because they didn’t notify you of the leak isn’t going to make repairing it any cheaper, nor will it allow you increase the rent for the next tenant.

So, your decision to renew should be based on whether you can get a better tenant in.

rightmove

Be cautious about taking anything from the deposit. Rtb is so pro tenant

.......

Dinarius wrote: »

(have you ever bought a cooker that had a flammable part?)....

....our beautiful solid oak floor in the hall next to the hot-press is squelching underfoot.

Yes - first cooker I ever bought went on fire - it was faulty. It happens. But why did you pay 600 quid to put in a new cooker? Surely for a rental you would have just put in a basic one - DID have 7 free standing cookers under 300 euro.

Ditto on a beautiful solid oak floor - in a rental???? Why!! Put in a cheap hardwearing laminate.

Mad_maxx

Dinarius wrote: »

The lease on the one-bed apartment we let is due for renewal on October 1st.


So, we must give notice of willingness to renew and any rent increase by July 1st.


I just received a call from one of the tenants - they're a couple and, to be fair, they have been ok for the most part for the last four years. Though last year the oven "caught fire" (have you ever bought a cooker that had a flammable part?) and we had to replace the entire cooker. That €600 took out our €50 rent increase entirely.



They noticed some water (a small amount) in the hot-press last week. They thought nothing of it.


This morning, there is a pool of water in the hot-press and our beautiful solid oak floor in the hall next to the hot-press is squelching underfoot.


I am not happy that they didn't tell me about the water last week.


A tank is easily fixed. The floor is a potentially very expensive.


What can I do in a situation like this?


I'm tempted to renew on a monthly lease only, particularly as other things have cropped up in the past just after we resigned for another year.


Thanks.

D.

Why do you need to bother with a lease?, part 4 rules trump it anyway

3DataModem

OP, you seem to have some emotional attachment to the apartment. This makes being a landlord very challenging. You have insurance exactly for this type of damage - did you claim?

I use an agent to avoid exactly this type of issue being anything other than a simple business incident rather than something I actually have to see and deal with personally. I suggest you might do the same, especially if you have some attachment to the apartment.

If October renewal is greater than 4 years and less than 4.5 years since they moved in, you can remove them at that time for any reason you want PROVIDED YOU GIVE CORRECT NOTICE, as they are at the end of a "part 4" lease. If you let them stay they are entitled to stay for a further six years unless you sell... the reason it is six is because the "part 4" rules changed a couple of years ago but leases in progress are only affected at next renewal.

SozBbz

It really astounds me that there are landlords (either accidental or by choice) out there who don't know about Part 4 tenancy rights.

Fair enough people may get cough out by the odd detail but Part 4 is not news.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

As for the RPZ's.... that was all over the news and well flagged. The writing was on the wall that the government was going to do something. There was ample opportunity for go for an increase ahead of time.

Sleepwalking is the word.

Also, at the risk of stating the obvious, you do know that you can offset some of your tax liabilities for work that goes into a rented property? So, no that €600 isn't wiped out.

If you do need to replace the floor, put in laminate. Its ideal for rented properties. Relatively cheap and very hard-wearing. You need to be practical as to how you furnish a rented property. You could surely have gotten a new oven for less than €600 also.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/rental-income/irish-rental-income/what-expenses-are-allowed.aspx

Browney7

Dinarius wrote: »

The lease on the one-bed apartment we let is due for renewal on October 1st.


So, we must give notice of willingness to renew and any rent increase by July 1st.


I just received a call from one of the tenants - they're a couple and, to be fair, they have been ok for the most part for the last four years. Though last year the oven "caught fire" (have you ever bought a cooker that had a flammable part?) and we had to replace the entire cooker. That €600 took out our €50 rent increase entirely.



They noticed some water (a small amount) in the hot-press last week. They thought nothing of it.


This morning, there is a pool of water in the hot-press and our beautiful solid oak floor in the hall next to the hot-press is squelching underfoot.


I am not happy that they didn't tell me about the water last week.


A tank is easily fixed. The floor is a potentially very expensive.


What can I do in a situation like this?


I'm tempted to renew on a monthly lease only, particularly as other things have cropped up in the past just after we resigned for another year.


Thanks.

D.

Have you proof that they saw the water last week and didn't tell you or is this what they told you.

In this market, tenants don't want to be seen as a pain in the hole ringing or getting in touch over something that may turn out to be nothing for fear of p1ssing off the LL - "they call me over every little thing" kind of attitude.

antix80

Charge the max increase, and bill them for the damage to the floor if it's something that could have been prevented.
If they don't pay, give them their marching orders.

Personally, if I were you I'd sell up. Doesn't sound like your heart is in being a landlord.

Fol20

OP, all the issues you mention can happen and are part and parcel of a tenancy.

Was the cooker a fault with the hardware or an “educational” with the tenant. If it’s the latter, this

Put some industrial dehumidifier where the leak was and it should sort it out. I had the same issue with laminate flooring. And it was fine after it. I would do this sooner rather later or your hardwood flooring may warp. Even if it is damaged, it isn’t a major job unless its a very large and it’s in the Centre. Should only take your handyman 1-2hours to pull it up and swap out the damaged boards. He will need to start on one of the perimeter walls but I wouldn’t stress about it.

In future I’d never go for hardwood flooring in a rental anyway as it’s much more expensive.

Dinarius

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, I guess there is an emotional attachment (and I admit that’s stupid) coz we lived there for five years before renting it. We spent a lot of money on it when we lived there, including that oak floor!

They are pre-2016, so I assume they’re entitled to two more years to bring it up to six.

Once the leak is fixed, I will make it clear who is paying for the floor repair, if that’s required.

As for using an agent; can we afford to at €1250 a month? If, yes, then I’m all ears!

Thanks again.

D.

Ps. Where would we be without boards.ie ?!

Dinarius

Ps. They told me verbally (on the phone) this morning that they noticed the water last week.

D.

.......

Dinarius wrote: »

We spent a lot of money on it when we lived there, including that oak floor!

In fairness, its reasonable to expect some repair on a 9 year old floor at some stage in the 9 years.

rightmove

Have you thought seriously about selling?

Askthe EA

Dinarius wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, I guess there is an emotional attachment (and I admit that’s stupid) coz we lived there for five years before renting it. We spent a lot of money on it when we lived there, including that oak floor!

They are pre-2016, so I assume they’re entitled to two more years to bring it up to six.

Once the leak is fixed, I will make it clear who is paying for the floor repair, if that’s required.

As for using an agent; can we afford to at €1250 a month? If, yes, then I’m all ears!

Thanks again.

D.

Ps. Where would we be without boards.ie ?!

Your agent fees are tax deductible? Your repairs are tax deductible? OP do you have an accountant?

If you dont mind me saying, I think you need an agent

Dinarius

Askthe EA wrote: »

Your agent fees are tax deductible? Your repairs are tax deductible? OP do you have an accountant?

If you dont mind me saying, I think you need an agent

I know they're all tax deductible - I'm a sole-trader and, yes, I have an accountant.


But, that doesn't answer my question about the cost of an agent.


If I was getting, as an extreme example, €3k a month for a one-bed, then the cost of an agent would be a no-brainer, assuming that their charges are roughly flat and would be the same annually for any one-bed apartment.


So, my question still stands; does it make financial sense to use an agent for a rental income of €1250 p/m, notwithstanding the fact that it's tax deductible?

In short, a business of X income per month (€3k in my above example) can afford an agent. Can a business of €1250 afford one?


Many thanks.

D.


Ps. regarding repairs to a 9 year-old oak floor being a reasonable expectation. You're comparing apples and oranges. Yes, the odd wax and polish, but repair? No.

Dav010

If they are pre 2016, then they are entitled to only a 4 year Part 4 cycle. If you are going to move them on at the end of that cycle, you need to do your research and know exactly when and how much notice to give.

Also, you don’t need to renew the lease, they have part 4 tenancy rights anyway.

While it could be argued they should have told you about a leak, they didn’t cause it so I m not sure if you can blame them.

TheChizler

The Student wrote: »

They are entitled to stay in the property for six years so you wont be able to renew on a monthly basis (welcome to the landlords world).

Just in case there's any misunderstanding here, you can of course continue on a rolling monthly basis OP, don't take it to mean you have to provide a new lease. The 4/6 years thing just means that the tenancy can't be terminated by the landlord outside of a few well defined situations, coming to the end of a lease in that time can't trigger a termination.

beauf

TheChizler wrote: »

....coming to the end of a lease in that time can't trigger a termination.

What do you mean by this?

TheChizler

beauf wrote: »

What do you mean by this?

Coming to the end of a lease doesn't mean the tenancy is automatically over and you can't tell a tenant to leave for that reason (unless it was a very short lease at the beginning of the tenancy). The Part 4 and further Part 4 rules apply.

Browney7

Dinarius wrote: »

Ps. They told me verbally (on the phone) this morning that they noticed the water last week.

D.

So no proof then really. Who's to say if it got to dispute at the RTB that they'd say they woke up and found the place flooded and called you straight away. You can't look at this with the benefit of hindsight - if they sent on a picture of a small pool of water last week would you have sent a plumber straight away or would you have said "ah sure keep an eye on it and let me know"?

I know in my own rental I'd open the hotpress at most once a month as I simply don't use it.

Just my two cents. Leaks happen, appliances fail and these get more regular as properties age. Best of luck with the repair and whatever you decide. As you said, sale may be worth pursuing in this market

The Student

Dinarius wrote: »

I know they're all tax deductible - I'm a sole-trader and, yes, I have an accountant.


But, that doesn't answer my question about the cost of an agent.


If I was getting, as an extreme example, €3k a month for a one-bed, then the cost of an agent would be a no-brainer, assuming that their charges are roughly flat and would be the same annually for any one-bed apartment.


So, my question still stands; does it make financial sense to use an agent for a rental income of €1250 p/m, notwithstanding the fact that it's tax deductible?

In short, a business of X income per month (€3k in my above example) can afford an agent. Can a business of €1250 afford one?


Many thanks.

D.


Ps. regarding repairs to a 9 year-old oak floor being a reasonable expectation. You're comparing apples and oranges. Yes, the odd wax and polish, but repair? No.

Just in case there is some confusion regarding the cost of agents fees.

I have not used an agent in a while but from memory they tend to charge around the 6% plus vat to let the property or if memory serves me right I think around 8% plus vat to let and manage the property.


Personally I manage my own properties as I have built up a network of tradesmen over the years who I trust. I have used letting agents to organize viewings etc as trying to advertise a property and arrange viewings in the current climate is just a nightmare.

You appear to need some advice in relation to the whole landlord game. My offer regarding help via PM still stands.

beauf

TheChizler wrote: »

Coming to the end of a lease doesn't mean the tenancy is automatically over and you can't tell a tenant to leave for that reason (unless it was a very short lease at the beginning of the tenancy). The Part 4 and further Part 4 rules apply.

Whats the point of the lease?

Graham

For the most part, there is no point.

TheChizler

beauf wrote: »

Whats the point of the lease?

Debatably very little point for the landlord. It encourages the tenant to stay longer, but there are ways to get out of it without penalty if the tenant is bothered to do a little work. In this market there will be a very small unoccupied window if the tenant leaves with or without a lease, so little benefit. The benefit is really to the tenant in the initial stages of a tenancy, to ensure they get past the 6 months required for part 4. It also means during a lease a landlord can't terminate the tenancy for the special reasons outlined in the part 4 rules unless the lease has a break clause for them.

overkill602

if you want your unit back do not issue a new lease as said they are pointless part4 over rules leases and can work against you, easiest way to get your place back is to not allow a new part 4/6 start, give notice using rtb template served before current expires remember to give a few extra days then sell or do short term lettings more than 14 days

Dinarius

Thanks all.

Just viewed property with a plumber.

Looks like there has been long term seepage down behind bath (which is also the shower) and everything behind tiling and underneath bath that is made of wood is now rotten.

So, major revamp of bathroom required. If it was fetching the going rate, the investment would be recouped in far less time. But,...

That said; we’ve been letting it for 14 years, so some makeover is due.

Decisions, decisions....

D.

Caranica

Sell, sell, sell. It's just not worth the hassle, the heartbreak or the stress any more.