RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

ILoveYourVibes

strandroad wrote: »

And gains. Tracks are mostly dead forlorn looking places between the occasional races. Imagine if they were repurposed for sports, gigs and community events and actually used the entire day every day.

I understand what you are saying and from that point of view you are correct of course.

There is another side to it though.

All the govt money actually does allow for those jobs to be very well paid in comparatively. It won't be matched elsewhere.

And these jobs are intertwined with the betting industry.

Even if you retained staff you wouldn't be able to keep them on the same wages.

Discodog

PhuckHugh22 wrote: »

In your experience as you say. In my experience from a horse racing background i would say quite the opposite. Most vets i know and deal with on a day to day basis are extremely good at their job and very caring to the animal.

There is about €50 million a year generated from betting tax in ireland so to say that greyhound racing does not provide any money to the state is factually innacurate. But then again it fits the narrative.

I am not really going to get into an discussion on this topic any further tbh. I dont have strong views on it and dont feel the documentary covered any of the otherside of the industry.
So i will leave the one sided kickabout where people fling around general statements about people and other such things with literally nothing more than "imo" as proof . Enjoy.

You mean your side ? The good side ? The side that sits back & allows this to happen ?

Working class heroes

Fair play to RTE some good work there.

On a separate note, does anyone remember the dog "The Late Late Show", a very successful bitch.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

The report that they worked on was 2017. It was instigated so the powers that be could tighten up regulations, which they are doing.

Most of the videos used last night are years old and have been touted by anti organisations like CAGED.

There was some truth in last nights program, but there were a hell of a lot of untruths.

I have emailed the RTE team & will post when I have a reply regarding the date. Anti organisations - Antis ? Where have I heard that term before ?

ILoveYourVibes

Discodog wrote: »

You mean your side ? The good side ? The side that sits back & allows this to happen ?

What?

No. I am just telling you the reality.

Not all of it will be good. I wouldn't go hoping for that. You have to take the bad with the good.

You have to stand back and say yeah if we want to go do this people will loose their jobs.

We have to face and answer to those people and HELP them.

It's over 5000 k jobs.

If you don't face reality then we are not being genuine in what we say and then we ARE planing to sit back and do nothing.

You have to plan for what you want.

If you want the industry wound down ..you have going to have to compensate those jobs.

Hell maybe the grant can go to the workers who lose out!

If we don't acknowledge that then we aren't serious.

Working class heroes

Working class heroes wrote: »

Fair play to RTE some good work there.

On a separate note, does anyone remember the dog "The Late Late Show", a very successful bitch.

Haha. Just goes to show how little posters here know! HE was Male.

strandroad

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You have to stand back and say yeah if we want to go do this people will loose their jobs.

We have to face and answer to those people and HELP them.

It's over 5000 k jobs.

How does this figure break down? It is bandied about but we have 8 tracks in Ireland so 625 jobs per track, I don't think so.

If it includes betting, guess what, people will bet on something else, betting is not exactly rational. It's not a love of dogs that makes someone gamble on them, you could run mechanical ones around the track and they would still gamble the same. Or switch to GAA or Japanese soccer league or Love Island winners.

Same for the additional figure of 7000 owners, perhaps if you include all the auld fellas with three greyhounds out the back, but there are no jobs really in that are there.

Working class heroes

Deleted User wrote: »

Haha. Just goes to show how little posters here know! HE was Male.

Ha!
Ah, those velvety legs and long slender neck had me fooled.:D

ILoveYourVibes

strandroad wrote: »

How does this figure break down? It is bandied about but we have 8 tracks in Ireland so 625 jobs per track, I don't think so.

If it includes betting, guess what, people will bet on something else, betting is not exactly rational. It's not a love of dogs that makes someone gamble on them, you could run mechanical ones around the track and they would still gamble the same.

Same for the additional figure of 7000 owners, perhaps if you include all the auld fellas with three greyhounds out the back, but there are no jobs really in that are there.

There are jobs off track as well though.

I just got it from here. It could be wrong i dont know.

https://www.igb.ie/globalassets/power-report-2018/power-report---the-economic--financial-significance-of-the-irish-greyhound-industry---november-2017.pdf


ACTIVITYEMPLOYMENT
Irish Greyhound Board Payroll
850
Private Tracks Payroll
149
Irish Coursing Club
180
Cleaning & Security Services at Stadia
380
Food &
Drink Suppliers to Catering Operators
436
Private & Public Trainers
543
Dog Food Manufacturers
–
Manufacture/Sales/Distribution
300
Greyhound Ancillary Products
–
Medicines/Treatments/Walkers/Baths/Veterinary
Services/Manufacture/Distribution/Sales
750
Betting Sector
1,170
Miscellaneous
–
Facilities Management, Printers, Outside Contractors
etc.
300
Direct & Indirect Employment
5,058

Imo it will wind down naturally anyway ..it would best to prepare ...the states has gotten rid of it etc.

I don't think it would be a reliable future.

whisky_galore

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The report that they worked on was 2017. It was instigated so the powers that be could tighten up regulations, which they are doing.

Most of the videos used last night are years old and have been touted by anti organisations like CAGED.

There was some truth in last nights program, but there were a hell of a lot of untruths.

The 'other side' were asked to present their views. Either bland statements from organisations or stony silence from individuals. Can't say they weren't offered an opportunity to tell their story.

PhuckHugh22

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

Just found the answer myself.


Under Section 12 of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Act, 2001 (No.20 of 2001), the horse and greyhound racing industries receive financial support from the State through the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund (the Fund).

In the period 2001 to 2017 a total of €1.12 billion has been paid from the Fund. In accordance with the provisions of the Act monies are paid out of the fund in the ratio of 80% to Horse Racing Ireland and 20% to Bord na gCon as specified in Section 12 (6) of the Act. State funding provided through the Fund is pivotal to the survival of the horse and greyhound racing industries.


So, in the 17 years to end-2017, Greyhound racing has received €222,000,000 of taxpayers' funds, that's an average of €66m per year. Incredible.

Jesus i hope the other people outraged are more inteligent than this?

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What?

No. I am just telling you the reality.

Not all of it will be good. I wouldn't go hoping for that. You have to take the bad with the good.

You have to stand back and say yeah if we want to go do this people will loose their jobs.

We have to face and answer to those people and HELP them.

It's over 5000 k jobs.

If you don't face reality then we are not being genuine in what we say and then we ARE planing to sit back and do nothing.

You have to plan for what you want.

If you want the industry wound down ..you have going to have to compensate those jobs.

Hell maybe the grant can go to the workers who lose out!

If we don't acknowledge that then we aren't serious.

I wasn't quoting you so I am puzzled

ILoveYourVibes

Discodog wrote: »

I wasn't quoting you so I am puzzled

My apologies I thought you were.

strandroad

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

ACTIVITYEMPLOYMENT
Irish Greyhound Board Payroll
850

What :eek: Am I reading this right?
850 Irish Greyhound Board employees, 100+ per track

angel eyes 2012

Apologies, if is has been posted already...

https://www.change.org/p/the-department-of-agriculture-stop-greyhound-racing?source_location=petitions_browse

ILoveYourVibes

whisky_galore wrote: »

The 'other side' were asked to present their views. Either bland statements from organisations or stony silence from individuals. Can't say they weren't offered an opportunity to tell their story.

Maybe we should stop thinking if it as being two sides and try to make it one side.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I understand what you are saying and from that point of view you are correct of course.

There is another side to it though.

All the govt money actually does allow for those jobs to be very well paid in comparatively. It won't be matched elsewhere.

And these jobs are intertwined with the betting industry.

Even if you retained staff you wouldn't be able to keep them on the same wages.

There are more than 10,000 employed in the greyhound industry. From track staff, trainers, suppliers, breeders etc.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

There are more than 10,000 employed in the greyhound industry. From track staff, trainers, suppliers, breeders etc.

What suggestions do you have? To stop what is happening etc.

ILoveYourVibes

strandroad wrote: »

What :eek: Am I reading this right?
850 Irish Greyhound Board employees, 100+ per track

No it works out around 5000 acc to those figures.

The greyhound board is not the only entity with employees in greyhound racing.

The betting sector etc. They also work at the tracks.

Jupiter Mulligan

PhuckHugh22 wrote: »

Jesus i hope the other people outraged are more inteligent than this?

F*** it!

Just goes to show that watching the world cup cricket and doing mental arithmetic at the same time isn't a good idea - will revise my nonsense immediately!

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What suggestions do you have? To stop what is happening etc.

Most of what was shown last night is history. The majority of doggie people abhor what was shown.
All breeding greyhounds are DNA tested so are traceable. If a dog leaves their owners premises permanently, the ICC, who are keepers of the stud book have to be informed. Otherwise they are still registered as owner and are responsible for the greyhounds wellbeing. The introduction of passports, microchipping and Balai certs also give more accountability.
Sales to China are illegal.

Jupiter Mulligan

Deleted User wrote: »

The majority of doggie people abhor what was shown.

So what are ye doing to root out the scumbags in your industry? And hand-wringing and condemnation won't suffice.

If available, please supply the number of prosecutions, lifetime bans, fines, etc.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Most of what was shown last night is history. The majority of doggie people abhor what was shown.
All breeding greyhounds are DNA tested so are traceable. If a dog leaves their owners premises permanently, the ICC, who are keepers of the stud book have to be informed. Otherwise they are still registered as owner and are responsible for the greyhounds wellbeing. The introduction of passports, microchipping and Balai certs also give more accountability.
Sales to China are illegal.

So you think nothing has to be done currently? And you think everything is ok?

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

Most of what was shown last night is history. The majority of doggie people abhor what was shown.
All breeding greyhounds are DNA tested so are traceable. If a dog leaves their owners premises permanently, the ICC, who are keepers of the stud book have to be informed. Otherwise they are still registered as owner and are responsible for the greyhounds wellbeing. The introduction of passports, microchipping and Balai certs also give more accountability.
Sales to China are illegal.

Last night showed, so called, respectable people engaging in illegal or acts that are against IGB ICC rules. How do you know that people aren't still doing this? They were breaking the rules then so why would they obey them now ?

Straffan1979

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2018-03-20/727/

If there is evidence that even one abandoned dog from Ireland ended up in China, then RTE are well within their rights to expose the practice; at the very least it is entirely in the public interest that the Licence Fee payer is informed of the complete absence of any Animal Welfare regulations or safeguards in China and, if required, shown footage of the horrific practices that goes on. It is even more important to highlight animal abuse as these poor creatures cannot stick up for themselves and rely on us to protect them.

Personally, I don't like horseracing and I don't necessarily agree with RTE broadcasting it, however RTE don't show clips of how abandoned racehorses may be mistreated after any horseracing programme or show a horse in agony after falling, in order to comply with Section 42 of the Act, but by your rationale they should be.

RTE should be applauded for their efforts and well done to any of the people involved in the production who may be reading this thread.

'entirely in the public interest that the Licence Fee payer is informed of the complete absence of any Animal Welfare regulations or safeguards in China '
I'm sure it is in the public interest;

At the risk of repeating myself
-whether individuals like it or not Greyhound racing&/ coursing are as it stands legal regulated entities in the state- that brings with it rights;

- using the national broadcaster to try and infer that all Greyhound owners in Ireland are involved or responsible for boiling dogs alive out in China or cutting the ears off dogs or otherwise abusing animals in the manner in which it was portrayed last night is against the Law-it's in breach of the Broadcadting Acts; it's not balanced/fair reporting- a legal requirement;

- furthermore families of working people involved in Greyhounds are likely today to have suffered all kinds of abuse on the back of that programme that was totally unwarranted; that could include children of dog owners in school today;Id consider the manner in which that programme was pitched as falling under incitement to hatred legislation;

- I'll take it up with RTE and Broadcadting standards Authority myself if I have to

mooseknunkle

Straffan1979 wrote: »

'entirely in the public interest that the Licence Fee payer is informed of the complete absence of any Animal Welfare regulations or safeguards in China '
I'm sure it is in the public interest;

At the risk of repeating myself
-whether individuals like it or not Greyhound racing&/ coursing are as it stands are legal regulated entities in the state- that brings with it rights;

- using the national broadcaster to try and infer that all Greyhound owners in Ireland are involved or responsible for boiling dogs alive out in China or cutting the ears off dogs or otherwise abusing animals in the manner in which it was portrayed last night is against the Law-it's in breach of the Broadcadting Acts; it's not balanced/fair reporting- a legal requirement;

- furthermore families of working people involved in Greyhounds are likely today to have suffered all kinds of abuse on the back of that programme that was totally unwarranted; that could include children of dog owners in school today;Id consider the manner in which that programme was pitched as falling under incitement to hatred legislation;

- I'll take it up with RTE and Broadcadting standards Authority myself if I have to

But it was fair and balanced,the "other side" declined all requests from RTE if they are all dog loving as you're portraying them,then why didnt they offer their side of the story?,why arent all the dog trainers/owners coming out and defending themselves?

Incitement to hatred legislation?,give me a break :rolleyes:

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

Micro chipping wasn’t a requirement for pups until mid 2015 and adult dogs roughly a year later. So, for the period covered by RTÉ, it’s doubtful many, if any were chipped. The BALAI carts and passports would have been introduced at roughly the same time.

Compulsory microchipping was introduced 4 years ago.
Four Years Ago.

The IGB were told 2 years ago in a report that the whereabouts of 6,000 pups per year was unknown.

2 years after microchipping became compulsory.

The Irish Greyhound Board was warned two years ago that overbreeding was threatening the future of the industry and that the whereabouts of some 6,000 pups per year was unknown.

A confidential report compiled by consultants Preferred Results stated that the industry in Ireland was not focused on the sport of greyhound racing, but on breeding. It stated that the industry was “failing from both a commercial and a regulatory point of view”.

The report warned that the size of the State’s dog pool was “out of control”, noting that some 15,000 greyhound pups were born every year in Ireland while the number of dogs racing annually was some 3,600.

The report says the industry produces 10 times more greyhounds each year than is required to sustain the sport in the State. Some 6,250 dogs are exported to the UK at less than 50 per cent of the costs of production, it says.

The report states that ultimately taxpayers, who provide €16.8 million in support for the greyhound industry annually, are subsidising the low-cost selling of greyhounds to the UK, where some 83 per cent of all dogs racing come from Ireland.

The report, marked “commercially sensitive”, was not made public by the Irish Greyhound Board when it was received in September 2017. It came to light on Wednesday as part of an RTÉ Investigates programme on the greyhound racing industry.


The report highlights the absence of traceability of 6,000 dogs every year, who do not race or are exported to the UK. It said there was anecdotal evidence that many of these non-performing greyhounds were being killed.

“If steps are not taken immediately to address the root causes giving rise to the mass culling of pups, the very future of the industry could be threatened,” it says. “Both from a welfare and from a financial perspective, the industry must now move to put racing at the centre of what it does and must ensure that breeding is undertaken to support the industry and not as an alternative to it.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/whereabouts-of-6-000-greyhound-pups-a-year-unknown-igb-told-1.3939498


But do keep digging. It gives me the opportunity to refute your comments with actual links.

Discodog

Straffan1979 wrote: »

'entirely in the public interest that the Licence Fee payer is informed of the complete absence of any Animal Welfare regulations or safeguards in China '
I'm sure it is in the public interest;

At the risk of repeating myself
-whether individuals like it or not Greyhound racing&/ coursing are as it stands legal regulated entities in the state- that brings with it rights;

- using the national broadcaster to try and infer that all Greyhound owners in Ireland are involved or responsible for boiling dogs alive out in China or cutting the ears off dogs or otherwise abusing animals in the manner in which it was portrayed last night is against the Law-it's in breach of the Broadcadting Acts; it's not balanced/fair reporting- a legal requirement;

- furthermore families of working people involved in Greyhounds are likely today to have suffered all kinds of abuse on the back of that programme that was totally unwarranted; that could include children of dog owners in school today;Id consider the manner in which that programme was pitched as falling under incitement to hatred legislation;

- I'll take it up with RTE and Broadcadting standards Authority myself if I have to

You will have to:

They didn't suggest or even infer that all owners were complicit. They suggested that the IGB/ICC were at least negligent.

All the good Greyhound people have to do is agree with the evidence, condemn it & make efforts to change it.

No incitement whatsoever. RTE gave the IGB & ICC every opportunity & right of reply. The sad thing is that "the responsible" owners etc are criticising RTE rather than speaking out in support of stopping these atrocities.

It's reasonable for people to assume that, if you don't condemn cruelty, you support it.

pheasant tail

Aw I don’t know how much I’d trust the vets either. I remember the Clare Byrne show, they showed a small clip of the segment last night. It was about the greyhounds and hare coursing. There was a vet in the audience there saying that she checks on the conditions of the hares pre race and then after the dogs run at them. That the hare won’t be put into the ring unless it’s in good condition. Of course she reported that the hares are all ok and perfectly okay to be released back into the wild. Thankfully, someone in the audience asked her who is she employed by, off course is was the hare coursers/greyhound body or whatever it is. They even payed her expenses to get to Dublin that night. What a joke. I’d love to see the light shone on the horse racing industry. Think it was cheltenham alone last year, 7 horses had to be killed due to injuries on the track. The horses didn’t ask to be there. It wasn’t their choice. They where there for our selfish entertainment. What about the horses that aren’t fast enough just like these dogs. Unfortunately, money trumps ethics for the majority of people. If you pay any money to any bookies then you are contributing to this!

strandroad

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No it works out around 5000 acc to those figures.

The greyhound board is not the only entity with employees in greyhound racing.

The betting sector etc. They also work at the tracks.

I think that I am in fact reading it right. Out of the ca 5000 industry employees overall, IGB alone employs 850. It's nuts!