RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

dickangel

Straffan1979 wrote: »

'THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THE DOGS IN THIS FOOTAGE ARE ACTUAL GREYHOUNDS FROM THE IRISH RACING INDUSTRY' .

That was clear though, nobody came away thinking those dogs were definitely Irish. The point was that this is a possible fate for Irish dogs in China. Which is a stone cold fact.

Straffan1979

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Not at all.
Most posters on this thread are perfectly capable of seeing the issue with sending dogs to a country where dogs are boiled alive.

As they are with seeing your tactics with the silly use of inverted commas.

You are trying to defend the indefensible.

As I said -try the same programme with the Travelling Community at the centre of it and see how long it'll be before you find yourself in the high court. I fully accept the serious problems in this Industry; That report is extremely poor from a fair and objective broadcasting perspective - and that's being kind to it

Bannasidhe

Straffan1979 wrote: »

The point I'm making is in Legally sound reporting on matters such as this in big black writing under the footage it would read

'THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THE DOGS IN THIS FOOTAGE ARE ACTUAL GREYHOUNDS FROM THE IRISH RACING INDUSTRY'

that's all I want- a balanced fair programme on the national broadcaster ; not sensational emotive conjecture that's the personal view of an aditor or reporter in that programme; Again there are Laws against broadcasting in this manner.

No need to shout.

Have Irish greyhounds been sent to China?
Yes.
Are greyhounds (and other dogs) boiled alive in China?
Yes.

Those are facts.

Unless they said an Irish dog was killed in this way (and we have no way of knowing if one has or hasn't) then they haven't said anything that can't be proven to be factual.

ILoveYourVibes

MarinersBlues wrote: »

For those bitches that don't get a license absolutely!

I had to take a pause and remember we are talking about dogs because that read so weird for a moment!



And the male dogs too.

ILoveYourVibes

Straffan1979 wrote: »

As I said -try the same programme with the Travelling Community at the centre of it and see how long it'll be before you find yourself in the high court. I fully accept the serious problems in this Industry; That report is extremely poor from a fair and objective broadcasting perspective - and that's being kind to it

You are not a persecuted minority.

And many on here inc me are trying to meet you half way and not be reactionary.

Straffan1979

dickangel wrote: »

That was clear though, nobody came away thinking those dogs were definitely Irish. The point was that this is a possible fate for Irish dogs in China. Which is a stone cold fact.

You see unfortunately you know that and I know that but pitching footage like that at any group is extraordinarily damaging- greyhounds /coursing are country pursuits that very few people have any experience of in any fashion ; the public get ALL their information from the prime times etc; Again that is why we need balanced fair reporting regardless of what ur view is on these matters.

klaaaz

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The problem is owners who are not connected to dogs. They are connected to gambling and racing.

They are not dog people.

Too right, they the greyhound owners see the dogs as rubbish to be discarded and violently killed when they are 'too slow' to win a race. It's not just knackerys that kill greyhounds, there are rescue shelters and pounds who have been overwhelmed with abandoned greyhound dogs. The numbers involved are insane, as said before the vast majority of greyhound owners have no empathy with their dogs as evidenced by the kills and abandonment.

I didn't say pets as the greyhounds were not pets, they are and were bred for sheer profit drugged to their eyeballs to win a race. It's a despicable industry for a first world country at the expense of animal welfare.

Discodog

Straffan1979 wrote: »

Where's the proof the dog boiled alive or killed with the hatchet were Irish racing dogs?

It was never suggested that they were. The point was the lack of animal welfare in a Country that Ireland has sent dogs too.

ILoveYourVibes

Straffan1979 wrote: »

You see unfortunately you know that and I know that but pitching footage like that at any group is extraordinarily damaging- greyhounds /coursing are country pursuits that very few people have any experience of in any fashion ; the public get ALL there information from the prime times etc; Again that is why we need balanced fair reporting regardless of what ur view is on these matters.

I can understand that.

Bannasidhe

Straffan1979 wrote: »

As I said -try the same programme with the Travelling Community at the centre of it and see how long it'll be before you find yourself in the high court. I fully accept the serious problems in this Industry; That report is extremely poor from a fair and objective broadcasting perspective - and that's being kind to it

Yeah yeah, try and bring the Travelling community into it now.

Deflect.
Deflect.
Deflect.

The programme was based on the report the IGB sat on for 2 years because it's "commercially sensitive".
Which is true. They knew once people saw the truth behind the scenes in their grubby little industry their business model was going to be exposed for what it is.
Greedy, unscrupulous, unregulated, cheats who see dogs as disposable commodities to be exploited and then gotten rid of as cheaply as possible.

angel eyes 2012

MarinersBlues wrote: »

That is an issue for the knackeries regulators.

The new legislation passed a couple of months ago should give the IGB and ICC the ability to deal with the dog owner from now on.

They just didn't have the power to fully enforce their rules prioir to this beacause everything was being appealed to the high court.

It's up to them to do it now.
It really is do or die time for the Greyhound industry.

As stated in the program the root of the problem is over production.
IMO they should start limiting the number of bitches allowed to breed every year. Providing licences to those deemed to be of a high enough standard.

Limiting the number of dogs will make them more valuable hence less disposable.

No, the Government should just ban it. I wouldn't trust one person working in that industry to comply with stricter regulations, the industry had its chance to clean up its act. The Government should then legislate for stricter penalties including custodial sentences and massive fines where necessary. There are plenty of real sports that punters can bet on. Anyone that attends Greyhound racing after this broadcast should be ashamed of themselves as they are investing in the industry and disregarding the sickening behaviour. I for one will be bringing the matter up with one of my local TDs who just happens to be the current Taoiseach.

ILoveYourVibes

klaaaz wrote: »

Too right, they the greyhound owners see the dogs as rubbish to be discarded and violently killed when they are 'too slow' to win a race. It's not just knackerys that kill greyhounds, there are rescue shelters and pounds who have been overwhelmed with abandoned greyhound dogs. The numbers involved are insane, as said before the vast majority of greyhound owners have no empathy with their dogs as evidenced by the kills and abandonment.

I didn't say pets as the greyhounds were not pets, they are and were bred for sheer profit drugged to their eyeballs to win a race. It's a despicable industry for a first world country at the expense of animal welfare.

Is it not more likely that maybe 50% see them like that and 50% don't?

Or even 70% / 30% ?

Discodog

dickangel wrote: »

It was clear from the footage that these guys aren't intimidated by inspections. They didn't give a sh1te when the inspector showed up as they were about to kill a greyhound. It was supposed to have been stopped before and it didn't. They'll keep doing it, and the level of inspection is ineffective.

Even worse they knew about the inspection in advance

pheasant tail

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I would trust vets. I think not to do so is slightly paranoid and arrogant.

Horses that don't make it on the track just become someone's riding horse. Racehorse to riding class. They make good riding horses.

If you are against horse racing you are pretty much against all horse sport.

Far fewer horses die in horse racing than in eventing for example comparatively.

As for cheltenham etc well courses can be altered. They can be better maintained.

They can back horses a bit later etc so they are more experienced and less green.

But I will say this the people in the horse racing industry have some of the best horsemanship I have ever seen. I mean it's almost superhuman.
Their knowledge and expertise is world class.

Actually if you do to the Dublin horse show this year you can see a racehorse to riding horse competition event. Jockeys usually judge it.

They have lots of other events etc...the whole of the equestrian world. Everyone from natural horsemanship people to dressage to barrel racers.

No way can you trust the entirety of any vested interest. Make cheltenham safer, so no more jumping? No, horses end up in the food chain also. It’s not as simple as just donating a dog to a family, to take on a horse you have to have the right facilities, not that straight forward. Just because more horses die in 1 event compared to another doesn’t make either right! And correct, I am against all horse sport, and anything that needlessly uses animals for our own selfish entertainment which is why we have these problems.

MarinersBlues

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I had to take a pause and remember we are talking about dogs because that read so weird for a moment!



And the male dogs too.

For practical reasons, once they are finished racing - yep.

klaaaz wrote: »

Too right, they the greyhound owners see the dogs as rubbish to be discarded and violently killed when they are 'too slow' to win a race. It's not just knackerys that kill greyhounds, there are rescue shelters and pounds who have been overwhelmed with abandoned greyhound dogs. The numbers involved are insane, as said before the vast majority of greyhound owners have no empathy with their dogs as evidenced by the kills and abandonment.

I didn't say pets as the greyhounds were not pets, they are and were bred for sheer profit drugged to their eyeballs to win a race. It's a despicable industry for a first world country at the expense of animal welfare.

Broad sweeping offensive statements with nothing to back it up.
This is not the case and if you want to be part of a potential solution you need to try to understand the issue.

Greyhounds make fantastic pets.

ILoveYourVibes

Discodog wrote: »

Even worse they knew about the inspection in advance

**** me!

ILoveYourVibes

MarinersBlues wrote: »

For practical reasons, once they are finished racing - yep.



Broad sweeping offensive statements with nothing to back it up.
This is not the case and if you want to be part of a potential solution you need to try to understand the issue.

Greyhounds make fantastic pets.

They do but we are not going to be able to rehome 6000 per year!

whisky_galore

The industry is disreputable enough even without the Chinese footage.
Like another long lived organisation that operates behind closed doors maybe its time people just turned their backs on it. Its had its day.

klaaaz

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Is it not more likely that maybe 50% see them like that and 50% don't?

Or even 70% / 30% ?

Judging on the heavy numbers involved that are massacred as well as dodgy exports every year plus the rampant drugged up dogs(on cocaine in instances) winning races , it's a majority of greyhound owners that are vile and corrupt. It's a rogue industry full of scum.

MarinersBlues

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

No, the Government should just ban it. I wouldn't trust one person working in that industry to comply with stricter regulations, the industry had its chance to clean up its act.

The industry was impeded in its chance to clean up its act by constant appeals to the high court.

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

The Government should then legislate for stricter penalties including custodial sentences and massive fines where necessary.

Agree.

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

There are plenty of real sports that punters can bet on. Anyone that attends Greyhound racing after this broadcast should be ashamed of themselves as they are investing in the industry and disregarding the sickening behaviour.

Agree.
Greyhound betting makes up a tiny portion of bookmakers turnover anyway and I would like to see the sport stand on its own two feet.

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

.. my local TDs who just happens to be the current Taoiseach.

Congratulations!?!

ILoveYourVibes

pheasant tail wrote: »

No way can you trust the entirety of any vested interest. Make cheltenham safer, so no more jumping? No, horses end up in the food chain also. It’s not as simple as just donating a dog to a family, to take on a horse you have to have the right facilities, not that straight forward. Just because more horses die in 1 event compared to another doesn’t make either right! And correct, I am against all horse sport, and anything that needlessly uses animals for our own selfish entertainment which is why we have these problems.

No. Safer Jumping.

OK well I am involved in horse sport and I support it and love it. So obviously i am a bad person then.

And quite clearly if you are against horses in sport it might indicate you don't know a lot about them.

Bannasidhe

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They do but we are not going to be able to rehome 6000 per year!

6,000 is the tip of the iceberg.
That's just the number that can't be accounted for.
There's also the ex-racing dogs.

Even 10,000 a year would be a conservative estimate.

There's only so many can be sent to Italy and Slovakia - they are currently where most rescued sighthounds go.
Sweden takes a lot of the other breeds.

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They do but we are not going to be able to rehome 6000 per year!

Disband the industry. Use it's assets to pay for the care of the remaining dogs. They would all be rehomed within a couple of years.

ILoveYourVibes

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Greyhound betting makes up a tiny portion of bookmakers turnover anyway and I would like to see the sport stand on its own two feet.

It couldn't it would collapse.

ILoveYourVibes

Discodog wrote: »

Disband the industry. Use it's assets to pay for the care of the remaining dogs. They would all be rehomed within a couple of years.

I don't think that is realistic. You would have to mass euthanize them.

Winding it down over a decade while reducing breeding you might be able to do that for a lot of them.


You have to be careful or you will have a worse immediate crisis.

Jupiter Mulligan

Straffan1979 wrote: »

Oh they're only 'known' so and this 'might' happen to 'some' dogs- that's a different spin on it now

Will you or I inform most of the posters on this tread?

Agree with you on that one.

But presumably once an Irish greyhound is legally sold to a buyer in another country, there is absolutely no way that Bord na gCon can stop that dog being sold on to China or wherever.

So the prohibition on Irish dogs being sold to China is relatively easy to get around?

klaaaz

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Broad sweeping offensive statements with nothing to back it up.
This is not the case and if you want to be part of a potential solution you need to try to understand the issue.

Greyhounds make fantastic pets.

Classic deflection. Greyhound racing owners discard of their commodity via execution because they are too slow and it's a majority because of the sheer numbers involved who have zero empathy with their dogs.

Yes greyhounds are pets, I bloody well know that they hog the sofa and are cherished members of the family instead of putting a bullet through their skull because they are deemed not profitable by greyhound racing owners.

MarinersBlues

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They do but we are not going to be able to rehome 6000 per year!

There wont be 6000.
There will be a predictable number of dogs if there is a limited number of pups each year.
Registering a dog could include a tariff for potential neutering/rehoming.


It would actually make the industry much easier to run.
They would know how many races they need to plan for each year to give everyone a chance to run.
There wouldn't be any pups surplus to requirements - just add as many grades as you need.

Dogs would be more expensive but you would be guarunteed a few years of racing.
At the moment they are realtively cheap but you don't know if you'll ever get a race.

Doctors room ghost

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I haven't watched it. can't.

You owe it to the dogs at least to sit down and watch it.otherwise you will be one of the other people who choose to look the other way and pretend it doesn’t exist

ILoveYourVibes

MarinersBlues wrote: »

There wont be 6000.
There will be a predictable number of dogs if there is a limited number of pups each year.
Registering a dog could include a tariff for potential neutering/rehoming.


It would actually make the industry much easier to run.
They would know how many races they need to plan for each year to give everyone a chance to run.
There wouldn't be any pups surplus to requirements - just add as many grades as you need.

Dogs would be more expensive but you would be guarunteed a few years of racing.
At the moment they are realtively cheap but you don't know if you'll ever get a race.

If it's enforced it sounds good.