RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

anewme

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I was involved with Rescue so I couldn't avoid knowing.
But having said that the Canidrome in Macau was infamous across the world (ABC in Australia did a programme on it) for it's appalling conditions - there was extensive news coverage in Ireland at the time.
Plus demonstrations outside the Dail.

I don't mean this in any nasty way but perhaps you didn't want to know?
I know people involved in greyhound racing any they didn't want to know either until events meant they couldn't ignore it anymore.

The father of a friend of mine was devoted to greyhound racing and his dog (Georgie). When Georgie retired he went to live with his owner and the two of them could be seen tottering around every evening on their walk. When Georgie died that man's heart broke.

Im not involved directly in Rescue, but I follow and support Rescues and animal welfare and I was fully aware of Macau and what happened there. I remember the Australian program too.

Just posted here to say that im just back from the local shop and out in the sun for their walk was an elderly gent and his elderly grey faced greyhound.

I dont know their history, or if the dog was ever a racing dog, but I can say that it really lifted my spirits.

jackboy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The fault lies with those involved who abused this beautiful breed out of sheer greed and those who ignored all the warnings. Dismissing protesters as "hippies" etc. They were telling the truth.

One serious issue with the testing was not mentioned in the program. Many trainers that have failed tests just get a slap on the wrist or not punished at all. The testing regime is a sham. Because of this some of the big scale trainers can dope with impunity.

Igotadose

jackboy wrote: »

One serious issue with the testing was not mentioned in the program. Many trainers that have failed tests just get a slap on the wrist or not punished at all. The testing regime is a sham. Because of this some of the big scale trainers can dope with impunity.

Of course they do. They get away with it. Simple solution - shut it down. The vet on the show describing some of the dog's blood as 'treacle' is nightmare-giving.

It's an irredeemable cesspit, Irish taxpayers shouldn't be funding *any* aspects of it. Shut it down. Fire everyone on their farcical oversight boards.

Bannasidhe

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

Horse meat is sold to France each year
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/7618-horses-killed-for-meat-in-ireland-446276.html

That is 1618, more than what greyhounds are supposed to have died, the above are actual figures. Ireland doesn't export to China anymore has been banned for a while now.

How long is "quite a while"?

DAFM admits 9 greyhounds were sent in 2016. 3 years ago isn't really "quite a while". It's more "quite recently".

Plus a 2017 DAFM statement that no greyhounds were sent that year is so qualified as to be meaningless

“Information received to date from the department’s local offices indicates that no greyhounds were exported directly from Ireland to China to date this year,” it said, adding that nine were exported last year.

It said while it had data on exports to EU countries it could not track movements to subsequent destinations.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-greyhounds-face-brutal-treatment-abroad-group-says-1.3159448

So once the greyhound leaves Ireland they neither know or care where it ends up.

CiarraiAbu2

Igotadose wrote: »

Of course they do. They get away with it. Simple solution - shut it down. The vet on the show describing some of the dog's blood as 'treacle' is nightmare-giving.

It's an irredeemable cesspit, Irish taxpayers shouldn't be funding *any* aspects of it. Shut it down. Fire everyone on their farcical oversight boards.

Happens in horse racing too

CiarraiAbu2

Bannasidhe wrote: »

How long is "quite a while"?

DAFM admits 9 greyhounds were sent in 2016. 3 years ago isn't really "quite a while". It's more "quite recently".

Plus a 2017 DAFM statement that no greyhounds were sent that year is so qualified as to be meaningless https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-greyhounds-face-brutal-treatment-abroad-group-says-1.3159448

So once the greyhound leaves Ireland they neither know or care where it ends up.

Still banned from Ireland.

CiarraiAbu2

Before ye all think I do not care, I really do.

I cant respond now but will tomorrow but I am against a total ban.

bb12

bb12 wrote: »

there are already tough laws for animal abuse here. the problem is nothing is ever done about it and if perchance a case ends up in court, they'll get away with a fine of a few hundred..sure look at the guy who swung his jack russell around in a park with kids in it and killed the dog in front of everyone...when it went to court he walked away scot free and didn't even get an animal ban....the welfare laws are completely useless as they are just not enforced in any way yet every td will come out and say " we have the best welfare laws in the world"...absolutely worthless drivel.

The treatment of greyhounds highlighted in the program last night have been known for a long time by people in animal rescue and welfare.

In terms of enforcement, a lot can depend on the judge you get on the day. Know from a dog warden that there is one who consistently dismisses cases brought against puppy farmers, abuse cases etc out of hand, or gives the smallest fine possible.

The cost of bringing these cases to have them treated in such a manner is also causing issues as the accountants are looking at it as a waste of money.

Will be interesting to see what happens to the knacker yards, highlighted in the program and the ones not actually named. The dog killed by the bolt gun would have died by bleeding out and if there was audio people would have heard that it would have been yelping in pain until it died.

Bannasidhe

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

Still banned from Ireland.

Is it actually illegal?

This statement from Dog's Trust suggests otherwise

Following the final debate of the new Greyhound Racing Bill 2018 which took place yesterday evening, Dogs Trust, Chair of the International Greyhound Forum (IGF), is disappointed that their proposed amendments regarding the export and traceability of Greyhounds was defeated in Seanad and Dáil Éireann and will not be included in the final Bill. However, the forum welcomes the commitment by the Irish Greyhound Board (IGB) to make provisions regarding best practice when exporting Greyhounds, by expanding its existing Code of Practice.

https://www.dogstrust.ie/whats-happening/news/the-igf-welcomes-commitment-by-irish-greyhound-board-to-make-provisions-in-their-code-relating-to-export-of-greyhounds


I've had a read of the Greyhound Racing Act 2019 and perhaps I am missing the part where it bans the export of greyhounds to China.
Could you tell me exactly which clause it is?

The Act can be found here https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2019/15/eng/enacted/a1519.pdf

Igotadose

"DubInMeath wrote: »

In terms of enforcement, a lot can depend on the judge you get on the day. Know from a dog warden that there is one who consistently dismisses cases brought against puppy farmers, abuse cases etc out of hand, or gives the smallest fine possible.

Ban it. Problems solved- corruption of judges not an issue, influence of a corrupt venal industry eliminated, all good. €16 million to reskill legitimate owners or the dole if .necessary as a bridge to new careers.

Will be interesting to see what happens to the knacker yards, highlighted in the program and the ones not actually named

The fines'll help.

gozunda

strandroad wrote: »

You're comparing 916 dogs killed in pounds across all breeds and the entire population of Ireland, to 6000 dogs killed in a particular one breed industry. And it's not "irresponsible owners" killing greyhounds, it's part and parcel of their business model. Stop minimising the cruelty of what's going on "at the races".

Nope. Incorrect. You came up with a figure of "916" You compared that. I didn't.

I refered to dogs taken into pounds. Btw the correct figure for dogs taken into pounds for 2017 is 11,559 not "916"

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/879d4c-dog-control-statistics/

To take from another posters comment - who already put you right - 6,000 greyhounds weren’t killed. The report details that up to "6,000 aren’t accounted for from age 3 months. Many of these would have been bred in Ireland for uk owners and go to their owners without being named. Its also possible that some of these would also date to the period before chipping etc.

I would strongly disagree "it's part and parcel of their business model"(sic) That's your opinion. Yes there are irresponsible pet owners and irresponsible greyhound owners. It is also true to state that there are also very responsible pet owners and greyhound owners.

Tbh the one man banditry tarring every single individual who breed and or race greyhounds here with the same brush is quite a show tbh.

This was the text of my original post and I stand over that.

On "culling" of dogs - In 2015 alone some 13,500 dogs were taken in by dog pounds in Ireland. Many of these dogs are killed because they are unwanted or abandoned by their owners with the result pet dogs being destroyed is not unusual in this country. And note - thats only the ones which reach the pounds ... No one knows how many other pet dogs just disappear...

There is an issue with irresponsible ownership across the board I have no doubt.

I'd suggest stop maximising the hyperbole in a one man war against all greyhound owners

jackboy

Igotadose wrote: »

Ban it. Problems solved- corruption of judges not an issue, influence of a corrupt venal industry eliminated, all good. €16 million to reskill legitimate owners or the dole if .necessary as a bridge to new careers.

I don’t agree with banning it. Anyway it can’t be banned, at least not by Fine Gael or fine fail. So, little chance of a ban in the foreseeable future.

Igotadose

Igotadose wrote: »

Ban it. Problems solved- corruption of judges not an issue, influence of a corrupt venal industry eliminated, all good. €16 million to reskill legitimate owners or the dole if .necessary as a bridge to new careers.

The fines'll help.

Not saying that the judge is corrupt, more not interested in the cases. I would have my own opinion on people like this but yeah it's frustrating especially when it is an obvious and provable case of abuse.

In relation to the knacker yards, fines are one thing, but potentially there is food chain issues by their actions, while unlikely it could be grounds for their license being revoked.

My wife is a registered vet nurse and also a dog warden (different area than the judge, that warden is a friend). She hates having to see a healthy greyhound being put down if the owner insists on this when surrendering the dog, they have no choice, but at least the dog has a better end than a bolt gun or worse.

Bannasidhe

It's being discussed on Prime Time now.

klaaaz

gozunda wrote: »

To take from another posters comment - who already put you right - 6,000 greyhounds weren’t killed. The report details that up to "6,000 aren’t accounted for from age 3 months. Many of these would have been bred in Ireland for uk owners and go to their owners without being named. Its also possible that some of these would also date to the period before chipping etc.

So much denial of the greyhound genocide here. Read the fecking report https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0626/1057535-greyhound-rte-investigates/ that around 6,000 greyhounds are murdered every year because they are 'too slow' for our entertainment in running. Those murderers of greyhounds are their owners.

Your type forget that the majority of the public love dogs, we despise your unrepentant cruelty treating dogs as disposable rubbish to be shot through the head because the poor animal is not fast enough for your entertainment.

gozunda

klaaaz wrote: »

So much denial of the greyhound genocide here. Read the fecking report https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0626/1057535-greyhound-rte-investigates/ that around 6,000 greyhounds are murdered every year because they are 'too slow' for our entertainment in running. Those murderers of greyhounds are their owners.

Your type forget that the majority of the public love dogs, we despise your unrepentant cruelty treating dogs as disposable rubbish to be shot through the head because the poor animal is not fast enough for your entertainment.

"greyhound genocide" Who is wipping out the greyhound species btw? And I note we now move from 'killed' to "murdered" and "murderers" (sic).

Any need for the bad language and the overt and frankly stupid personalisation btw?

Yes I read the article on the report. The same as you linked.

And those figures are debated - but you know that already.

In a statement to RTÉ Investigates, the IGB said despite the report "the level of greyhound euthanasia is unknown".

It said the analysis of the dog pool carried out by Preferred Results Ltd, "did not accord with what was clearly visible in the industry at the time the report was presented to the IGB in late September 2017".

It said in respect of greyhound deaths that "all figures referenced in media and elsewhere from a variety of different sources - including the Preferred Results Report - are based on guesstimates/estimates and have no evidence base".

You forget that thousands of dogs are abandoned and surrendered to pounds every year. There are many other dogs which are not that lucky. The point is that there are many irresponsible owners of dogs.

I dont have a 'type' btw and no I dont have greyhounds or "entertainment"

mikeym

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

Before ye all think I do not care, I really do.

I cant respond now but will tomorrow but I am against a total ban.

Are you happy for the greyhound industry to be subsidised by the tax payer?

They should be able to stand on their own two feet.

Are you one of those sick people that get paid €10 to slaughter healthy dogs?

Greyhounds are not vicious animals and like most dogs are friendly harmless creatures that deserve a loving home.

And dont mention horse racing like you did several times, this is a different subject matter.

I cant keep a horse in my back garden or in my house.

MarinersBlues

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I was involved with Rescue so I couldn't avoid knowing.
But having said that the Canidrome in Macau was infamous across the world (ABC in Australia did a programme on it) for it's appalling conditions - there was extensive news coverage in Ireland at the time.
Plus demonstrations outside the Dail.

I don't mean this in any nasty way but perhaps you didn't want to know?
I know people involved in greyhound racing any they didn't want to know either until events meant they couldn't ignore it anymore.

My point was that greyhound people were disgusted at the thought of having anything to do with China.
Not that it wasn't covered in the news.
I found out from them and, again, the links to conversations at the time back up my experience.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The father of a friend of mine was devoted to greyhound racing and his dog (Georgie). When Georgie retired he went to live with his owner and the two of them could be seen tottering around every evening on their walk. When Georgie died that man's heart broke. Sadly, he is one of the rare ones. More and more greyhound racing has been corrupted and it's down to the owners, trainers, breeders failing to see/choosing to ignore/being complicit in the abuses that were allowed to go unchecked.

No he is not one of the rare ones.
He is one of the genuine ones.
It's just that a lot of genuine ones have left the sport because of the lack of action from the IGB.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It's not RTE's fault.
It's not animal welfare activists fault.
The fault lies with those involved who abused this beautiful breed out of sheer greed and those who ignored all the warnings. Dismissing protesters as "hippies" etc. They were telling the truth.

I never said any differently.
I have said time and again - it is do or die time for the industry.

klaaaz

gozunda wrote: »

"greyhound genocide" Who is wipping out the greyhound species btw? And I note we now move from 'killed' to "murdered" and "murderers" (sic).

Any need for the bad language and the personalisation? btw?

Yes I read the article on the report. The same as you linked.

And those figures are debated - but you know that already.

You forget that the thousands of dogs are abandoned and surrendered to pounds every year. There are many other dogs who are not that lucky. There are many irresponsible owners of dogs.

Yes, the RTE report is correct, 6,000 beautiful greyhounds were executed per year for PROFIT because they were too slow for performance, that's extremist genocidal behaviour towards a dog breed. Stop trying to deflect on your whataboutery, 6000 greyhounds per year were murdered for profit towards the gambling habits of a demented audience, the greyhound owners are responsible for those mass murders showing their truly barbaric reality.

taytobreath

I cant see the greyhound racing industry coming back from this, they have been already been in decline the last several years.

My opinion is... good riddance

gozunda

klaaaz wrote: »

Yes, the RTE report is correct, 6,000 beautiful greyhounds were executed per year for PROFIT because they were too slow for performance, that's extremist genocidal behaviour towards a dog breed. Stop trying to deflect on your whataboutery, 6000 greyhounds per year were murdered for profit towards the gambling habits of a demented audience, the greyhound owners are responsible for those mass murders showing their truly barbaric reality.

The RTE article which also details the disputed figures? It would be good you could read that in full and omit the hyperbole of extremist genocidal ..murdered.. .demented...mass murders etc etc

As to that type of rubbish - it's a discussion not rabble rousing

It remains there are many irresponsible owners of dogs - all types.

jomalone14

Ok, for all here that want to actively do something, I've copied the below template from GRAI.

Bombard your local TDs and tell them to take action. Strength in numbers! You can find a template letter below and you can find out who your representative here- https://www.whoismytd.com/

Dear __TD name here,
Re: Greyhound welfare in the racing industry
As one of your constituents, I am writing to you following the ‘RTE Investigates’ programme, which aired on 26 June 2019. This programmed highlighted several shockingly abusive and cruel practices currently happening in the state funded greyhound industry.
Key issues raised include; the abuse of dogs through use of performance enhancing drugs, the overbreeding of dogs which leads to excess numbers of animals being ‘culled’ or exported to unregulated and clearly very cruel dog markets in China. The programme reported that up to 6000 dogs are killed each year because they are not deemed fast enough to compete. Several knackeries were shown to charge anything from 20 euro upwards to illegally kill these dogs. The image of a dog writhing on the floor, after being shot with a bolt gun, as its owner waited for its collar to be returned, provided a shocking insight into the reality of how many of these animals experience the last moments of their lives. This is both illegal and inhumane. Equally shocking was the footage of the coursing event on Whiddy Island, which was unlicensed and illegal and clearly causing untold distress to hares in this area.
As my elected representative I am asking you to take action with urgency on the following:
1. Based on this report, consider an urgent DAIL review/question into the current state of animal welfare in greyhound racing and coursing.
2. A removal or freezing of any state funding until animal welfare can be guaranteed for greyhounds, in terms of breeding, kennel conditions, regulation of foreign exports and methods of euthanasia.
3. Using the Greyhound Act 2019 and the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013 and related legislation, to enforce criminal sanctions against perpetrators of illegal activity in this industry.
I look forward to hearing to hearing your response.
Yours sincerely,
Name and address

gozunda

Tbh little if any discussion remaining in this thread. Appears to have turned into an offshoot of an icabs website rant tbh.

thebourke

i think we have a major issue with animal cruelty in this country...be it cats,dogs,cattle,pigs,horses etc!!!!

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

Tbh little if any discussion remaining in this thread. Appears to have turned into an offshoot of an icabs website rant tbh.

And you haven't even mentioned "Antis" yet - are you OK ?

I will tar all Greyhound owners & everyone who work in or support the industry until I see them protesting out side the IGB/ICC & demanding changes.

The IGB complain that the figure of 6000 is based on guesswork. So, in reality, it could easily be 10,000. It should be unbelievable that they don't monitor & control the numbers but then they never have.

You try to deflect by mentioning the dog pound figures but you ignore the fact that they have been dropping every year.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

And you haven't even mentioned "Antis" yet - are you OK ?I will tar all Greyhound owners & everyone who work in or support the industry until I see them protesting out side the IGB/ICC & demanding changes. The IGB complain that the figure of 6000 is based on guesswork. So, in reality, it could easily be 10,000. It should be unbelievable that they don't monitor & control the numbers but then they never have.You try to deflect by mentioning the dog pound figures but you ignore the fact that they have been dropping every year.

No but you did in this thread. Your point? Again this is not AH - so what's with the stupid personalisation?

So yeah the figures could be have been made up by Mickey mouse for all we know at this stage.

No deflection whatsoever that I see. The figures from 2015 - 2017 have only marginally declined in relation to dogs taken in by the pounds. And thats only for the ones which reach the pounds ...

The point is there is a very serious issue with irresponsible dog owners across the board. This however has turned to a trial by media and mob hysterics complete with pitchforks. Though tbh that doesn't surprise me seeing the near verbatim script from the usual sources.

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

No but you did in this thread. Your point? Again this is not AH - so what's with the stupid personalisation?

So yeah the figures could be have been made up by Mickey mouse for all we know at this stage.

No deflection whatsoever that I see. The figures from 2015 - 2017 have only very marginally declined in relation to dogs taken in by the pounds.

The point is there is a very serious issue with irresponsible dog owners across the board. This however has turned to a trial by media and mob hysterics complete with pitchforks. Though tbh that doesn't surprise me seeing the near verbatim script from the usual sources.

It is a sub forum of AH.

I agree regarding dog ownership but it is getting better - a lot better. However the program, the thread & at least 6000 dead Greyhounds aren't about pet dog ownership. By the way all the earlier research has put the figure closer to 10,000.

Many people have pointed out the inherent cruelty of racing. Even a idiot can work out that only a few dogs will be good racers & to produce those you have to produce lots of dogs that won't make the grade.

You may think it acceptable to say breed 100 pups in order to get 10 potential racers & then kill the rest. I don't & it that makes me a mob then so be it.

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote: »

Yes, the RTE report is correct, 6,000 beautiful greyhounds were executed per year for PROFIT because they were too slow for performance, that's extremist genocidal behaviour towards a dog breed. Stop trying to deflect on your whataboutery, 6000 greyhounds per year were murdered for profit towards the gambling habits of a demented audience, the greyhound owners are responsible for those mass murders showing their truly barbaric reality.

6,000 greyhounds being unaccounted for is vastly different from 6,000 being "executed" but isn't as attention grabbing. If you actually read the report, commissioned by IGB, you would see that the RTE program was an oversensationalised attack on a legal activity.
Now, I must walk, feed and groom my poor neglected greyhounds before I go to work.

InTheShadows

taytobreath wrote: »

I cant see the greyhound racing industry coming back from this, they have been already been in decline the last several years.

My opinion is... good riddance

We can't be complacent though. The industry must be crushed in law so it doesn't rear it's ugly head again.

Bannasidhe

[snipped]

What I am seeing is a few posters who are invested in greyhound racing using the Vicky Pollard defense of "yes, but no, but yes, but pounds, but not Irish, but legal, but ages ago, but but..."

And that is, imho, part of the problem. Deny, defend, deflect, rather than admit failures and work to improve things.
It is also why I think think things cannot improve.

How can they when those involved won't admit just how bad things have gotten?