RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

Suspect? Indeed I'm sure you do. Your personal suspicions are not good enough I'm afraid.

It's funny how some of those same 'anti' interests delight in pigeon holding & vilifying / taring everyone with the same brush because they have a personal dislike lof egal activities such as greyhound racing. And absolutly nothing will change their minds.

Ah the old "animal cruelty" refrain. Its amazing how that phrase is a conveniently moveable goalpost depending on who is wielding
Some people even believe keeping domestic animals is cruel. Strange that.

Again you are claiming all ie 'they' are culpable. -no matter what, but no that doesn't wash tbh.

It's actually very clear:

“unnecessary suffering” means, in relation to an animal, pain, distress or suffering (whether physical or mental) that in its kind or degree, or in its object, or in the circumstances in which it occurs, is unreasonable or unnecessary;

Igotadose

Discodog wrote: »

Given an average lifespan of 12 years there should be 170,000 of them out there. Where are they ?

Actually, looking at page 4 again, that 14,000 number might be 'total number of greyhounds' including adults, not just the ones that were born in 2017.

However. They do estimate 2750 litters in 2017. Google is saying an average of 8 per litter. That'd be 8 * 2750 or 22,000 pups born per year. Even if it were a much more conservative 4 per litter, that's still 11,000 per year.

That's a lot of pups. Where are they?

Straffan1979

Discodog wrote: »

Animal cruelty is illegal. The vast majority of people support this. We can dictate that you don't break the law.

We aren't discussing fox hunting - yet more diversion & whataboutery.

It's about time that "the decent Greyhound people" policed their "sport". When will I see these people calling the Guards & reporting cruelty ?
When will I see them totally opposing the killing of unwanted dogs ?
When will I see them controlling the numbers of pup being bred ?

I’m not causing a diversion about fox hunting; I see all these ‘hunt sabs’ I think they call themselves but they just seem to be totally ignorant of foxes generally in the countryside and their interaction with farming etc etc; if I was a hunt Sab I’d be trying to ban rifles not fox hounds.

Id draw similar parallels with people trying to influence government policy on Greyhounds etc( and they’re perfectly entitled to do so) but they never attend for example a coursing meeting - it’s hard for them to get any traction and I think that’s why they engage in emotive type footage we seen on PTI.

They don’t have a grasp of the facts and are forced to try and engage the public on an emotional level to affect change and manipulate public opinion.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

It's actually very clear:

“unnecessary suffering” means, in relation to an animal, pain, distress or suffering (whether physical or mental) that in its kind or degree, or in its object, or in the circumstances in which it occurs, is unreasonable or unnecessary;

Nope. The phrase you used was 'animal cruelty' which as I pointed out can mean just about anything depending who is wielding that cudgel.
As in the example some believe that even having a pet is 'cruelty'... go figure.

Discodog

Straffan1979 wrote: »

I’m not causing a diversion about fox hunting; I see all these ‘hunt sabs’ I think they call themselves but they just seem to be totally ignorant of foxes generally in the countryside and their interaction with farming etc etc; if I was a hunt Sab I’d be trying to ban rifles not fox hounds.

Id draw similar parallels with people trying to influence government policy on Greyhounds etc( and they’re perfectly entitled to do so) but they never attend for example a coursing meeting - it’s hard for them to get any traction and I think that’s why they engage in emotive type footage we seen on PTI.

They don’t have a grasp of the facts and are forced to try and engage the public on an emotional level to affect change and manipulate public opinion.

Don't let a heap of patronising influence you. The same arguments were used to stop women getting the vote.

The racing & coursing crowd aren't interested in reasoned debate because they simply don't see their sport as cruel. They put on the blinkers & ignore the real situation.

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. The phrase you used was 'animal cruelty' which as I pointed out can mean just about anything depending who is wielding that cudgel.
As in the example some believe that even having a pet is 'cruelty'...

That is the legal definition of cruelty in the new Animal Welfare Act. It isn't about what people believe, it's about what the law says. It's also about public opinion. The huge increase in vet practices & dog grooming show how much Ireland is changing.

People know when something is really cruel.

gozunda

Straffan1979 wrote: »

The answer to everything is BAN BAN BAN;

In a democracy just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean you can dictate to others what they can or can’t engage in.

I would like to see an educated debate though- we’re really done with the ‘Murderer’ type mud slinging that’s the center of this debate for a long time.

I still laugh at the fox hunting ban UK; most fox hunters on horses wouldn’t catch a fox if he sat up on the horse beside them- it’s hilarious;

meanwhile 100,000’s foxes are shot as vermin every month by farmers for killing lambs etc and there’s not a word about it or noone bats an eyelid- extraordinary.

Again it comes down to people engaging in an uneducated debate- and goes back to my original point that a lot of the footage in PTI was just playing to the anti blood sport Lynch mob and will actually set us back years as regards having a meaningful adult debate about the sport and it’s problem areas - Which I acknowledge are very serious for the sport going forward; the decent Greyhound people of the country have been badly failed by the governing of the sport for a long time.

And the peculiar thing is that much of that "Ban" everything movement et al first arrived here from the UK coutesy of a number of well known high profile individuals who skidaddled from the UK after they got in trouble with the law over there and a bunch of others looking for some imaginary rural idyll.

And joy's of joy's determining what we should all be doing or shouldn't doing. Nothing wrong in people genuinely seeking to work to improve things - but be in no doubt thats not what in large we are dealing with imo. Forget about those breaking the law or rogue individuals. It remains the goal of the small number who chose to vilify everyone and anyone whose activities they dont like.

Straffan1979

Discodog wrote: »

Don't let a heap of patronising influence you. The same arguments were used to stop women getting the vote.

The racing & coursing crowd aren't interested in reasoned debate because they simply don't see their sport as cruel. They put on the blinkers & ignore the real situation.

Patronising!

it’s not patronising to say there’s a gulf in basic knowledge by the people protesting against Greyhounds/Coursing- I’ve seen it time and time again-

Oh the aim is to kill the the hare , yeah they’re out there killing all the hares that’s what they’re doing-

...that’s normally the opening exchange

Discodog

Straffan1979 wrote: »

Patronising!

it’s not patronising to say there’s a gulf in basic knowledge by the people protesting against Greyhounds/Coursing- I’ve seen it time and time again-

Oh the aim is to kill the the hare , yeah they’re out there killing all the hares that’s what they’re doing-

...that’s normally the opening exchange

So you politely say

No we catch a wild hare & then let the dogs chase it & Mr Hare loves every second.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

That is the legal definition of cruelty in the new Animal Welfare Act. It isn't about what people believe, it's about what the law says. It's also about public opinion. The huge increase in vet practices & dog grooming show how much Ireland is changing.

People know when something is really cruel.

Im sure they do. Just most don't use it as a cudgel to score brownie points. And still nothing to do with what you claimed btw.

Discodog wrote:

The racing ... crowd aren't interested in reasoned debate because they simply don't see their sport as cruel. 

That's you telling everyone that your opinion beats theirs tbh and claiming greyhound racing is 'animal cruelty' even though it's a legal activity. How's that work then? Of interest the law is not "public opinion" and "public opinion" is not your own opinion either.

But hey nothing like others telling others how we should think. Imo the majority if people are perfectly capable of thinking for themselves and dont need to be told how or what ...

Bannasidhe

A GREYHOUND part-owned by RTE commentator Micheál Ó Muircheartaigh has tested positive for a prohibited substance in Britain.

Heart Rumble was a pup when sent to Sunderland on December 4 for the heats of a competition there.

He did not win but later gave a urine sample which showed him to be positive for the banned drug nandrolone and the metabolites 19-norepiandrosterone and 19-noretiocholanolane and estranediol.

Nandrolone is a drug banned in human athletes and features on the lists of the World Anti-Doping Agency to which the Irish Sports Council and Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism subscribe.

Veterinary sources suggest that nandrolone is used by some trainers to prevent bitches coming into season. However, Heart Rumble is a male greyhound.

One of the best-known trainers in the country, Paul Hennessy was fined £800 (?1,169) and severely reprimanded by the National Greyhound Racing Club (NGRC) stewards in London last week after Heart Rumble was found to be positive.

According to the official organ of the greyhound industry here, the Clonmel-based Sporting Press, Hennessy told the NGRC that he was treating the puppy for renal failure. The drug is not prohibited by Bord na gCon.

Heart Rumble ran two nights ago at Clonmel in the quarter-finals of the Produce Stakes and qualified for the penultimate stage of the Bord na gCon-backed classic.

Paul Hennessy told the Irish Independent that he may appeal: "The substance is fine in this country but banned in Britain"

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/greyhound-owned-by-rte-commentator-fails-drug-test-25990724.html?fbclid=IwAR1eXEPpgWOXh-kjDnPXfvZz8pUzQF10G7139QprbxCeiwnSmbvgDUZETPg


Racing a dog that is being treated for renal failure??

Yes, it's all about the welfare of the dogs.

Oh and look - the substance in question hasn't been banned for use on greyhounds by Bord na gCon so it's all perfectly legal nothing to see here you blathering anti's who know nothing.

Wildly Boaring

I've no skin in this particular game.

I like dogs. I also like cows and horses. Cats no so much.

I like to eat all manner of animals, not dog, but I honestly see that as a cultural difference.

BUT
Is there a fella above claiming that people cannot be against coarsing if they've never been to a coarsening event??

That's not logical at all.

We all know the plan.
Hare released, 2 dogs chase, 1 turns the hare....he wins.


I mean I've been at a bull fight or an ecstasy fuelled rave or a street race or......

Still think they should be banned. Do I need to attend one before I can have such an opinion?

Straffan1979

Discodog wrote: »

So you politely say

No we catch a wild hare & then let the dogs chase it & Mr Hare loves every second.

Mr hare is living on farmland the use of which is the exclusive permission of the relevant local coursing club( protected from the lurcher men); Mr hare has been treated for various parasites that means he’s actually doing better over the course of the year than other hares; For the time Mr Hare is in captivity he’s been fed high energy oats/barley/bark ad lib as much as he wants in the middle of winter when he’d be finding it hard to get good grub; then Mr hare has to run once up a straight course pursued by 2 muzzled Greyhounds into an escape hatch( that he’s been trained to run into) and then he’s ear tattooed/tagged so he can’t be used by other clubs and he’s away and free to go- that’s the story of Mr Hare.

Straffan1979

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I've no skin in this particular game.

I like dogs. I also like cows and horses. Cats no so much.

I like to eat all manner of animals, not dog, but I honestly see that as a cultural difference.

BUT
Is there a fella above claiming that people cannot be against coarsing if they've never been to a coarsening event??

That's not logical at all.

We all know the plan.
Hare released, 2 dogs chase, 1 turns the hare....he wins.


I mean I've been at a bull fight or an ecstasy fuelled rave or a street race or......

Still think they should be banned. Do I need to attend one before I can have such an opinion?

I’m not saying that at all but it’s very hard to get traction if your basic arguments are full of half truths , misinformation and you have to resort to an emotive assault on the public to make your point- it generally doesn’t work

strandroad

Straffan1979 wrote: »

Mr hare is living on farmland the use of which is the exclusive permission of the relevant local coursing club( protected from the lurcher men); Mr hare has been treated for various parasites that means he’s actually doing better over the course of the year than other hares; For the time Mr Hare is in captivity he’s been fed high energy oats/barley/bark ad lib as much as he wants in the middle of winter when he’d be finding it hard to get good grub; then Mr hare has to run once up a straight course pursued by 2 muzzled Greyhounds into an escape hatch( that he’s been trained to run into) and then he’s ear tattooed/tagged so he can’t be used by other clubs and he’s away and free to go- that’s the story of Mr Hare.

And if Mr Hare suffers a heart attack or has his bones broken you simply pull Mrs Hare out of her cage instead.

Bannasidhe

Straffan1979 wrote: »

I’m not saying that at all but it’s very hard to get traction if your basic arguments are full of half truths , misinformation and you have to resort to an emotive assault on the public to make your point- it generally doesn’t work

But enough about the IGB and ICC.

Straffan1979

strandroad wrote: »

And if Mr Hare suffers a heart attack or has his bones broken you simply pull Mrs Hare out of her cage instead.

we could go on here til the cows come home;

I posted in this thread to defend ordinary people from vitriol that was spewing out largely as a result of the Chinese footage ; I hope it brought some balance and introduced some basic knowledge about the sport that is lacking IMO; if you don’t like Greyhounds that’s totally your prerogative but I’m signing off here now.

What I find really distasteful is that the program makers didn’t stop the dogs being killed in the knackeries. They were monitoring the places long enough. But, to do so wouldn’t have given them the heart wrenching footage they needed. Shame on them.

strandroad

strandroad wrote: »

And if Mr Hare suffers a heart attack or has his bones broken you simply pull Mrs Hare out of her cage instead.

Your ignorance of the game is astounding.

mgbgt1978

Straffan1979 wrote: »

Mr hare is living on farmland the use of which is the exclusive permission of the relevant local coursing club( protected from the lurcher men); Mr hare has been treated for various parasites that means he’s actually doing better over the course of the year than other hares; For the time Mr Hare is in captivity he’s been fed high energy oats/barley/bark ad lib as much as he wants in the middle of winter when he’d be finding it hard to get good grub; then Mr hare has to run once up a straight course pursued by 2 muzzled Greyhounds into an escape hatch( that he’s been trained to run into) and then he’s ear tattooed/tagged so he can’t be used by other clubs and he’s away and free to go- that’s the story of Mr Hare.

Total BS.
1/2 of the Mr hares are Mrs Hares.
Many of these are pregnant at the time they get to have a bit of a chase from a dog.
The Hare hasn't been "trained" to run towards the escape hatch, it has been chased by greyhounds a few days before the actual meet and if it's lucky it figures out where the hatch is located.

Most of the Hares are kept (illegally) after a Coursing meet and sold/donated to the next Meet.
Most Coursing clubs will have a token Hare capture day several weeks prior to their event.....usually they will be lucky to net a dozen Hares on the Day. Yet they will have dozens (even into the hundreds) of hares penned for at least a month leading up to their event.
Just for clarification I am not a member/supporter of any anti bloodsport organisations. I do however live directly across the road from probably the 3rd biggest Coursing Event in Ireland. For many years the Hare holding pen was in the field across the road from my house ( they moved it a couple of years ago to a location further away from the road for some reason ).


Without exception every single one of the people involved with this club that I have encountered over the past 16 years are Bullies, W@nkers, or just hard cnuts with something to prove.
TBH whatever about people's views on the 'sport', the type of pr!cks that participate should be enough to have it banned.


I could go on with incidents that have occurred over the years but I think most people know what 'knuckle-dragging' means...and I won't be entering into any further interaction with Straffan as he/she seems firmly entrenched in their position.

Cork Boy 53

Deleted User wrote: »

What I find really distasteful is that the program makers didn’t stop the dogs being killed in the knackeries. They were monitoring the places long enough. But, to do so wouldn’t have given them the heart wrenching footage they needed. Shame on them.

Surely the most ridiculous post that I have read on this thread. They were showing the reality of what goes on in these hellholes.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

Given an average lifespan of 12 years there should be 170,000 of them out there. Where are they ?

Actually, 10 years would be good for that size dog, though I’ve had some greyhounds live to 12 and 15 and as young as 7.

Cork Boy 53

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Surely the most ridiculous post that I have read on this thread. They were showing the reality of what goes on in these hellholes.

But they kept filming it rather than calling the Gardai!

Straffan1979

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Total BS.
1/2 of the Mr hares are Mrs Hares.
Many of these are pregnant at the time they get to have a bit of a chase from a dog.
The Hare hasn't been "trained" to run towards the escape hatch, it has been chased by greyhounds a few days before the actual meet and if it's lucky it figures out where the hatch is located.

Most of the Hares are kept (illegally) after a Coursing meet and sold/donated to the next Meet.
Most Coursing clubs will have a token Hare capture day several weeks prior to their event.....usually they will be lucky to net a dozen Hares on the Day. Yet they will have dozens (even into the hundreds) of hares penned for at least a month leading up to their event.
Just for clarification I am not a member/supporter of any anti bloodsport organisations. I do however live directly across the road from probably the 3rd biggest Coursing Event in Ireland. For many years the Hare holding pen was in the field across the road from my house ( they moved it a couple of years ago to a location further away from the road for some reason ).


Without exception every single one of the people involved with this club that I have encountered over the past 16 years are Bullies, W@nkers, or just hard cnuts with something to prove.
TBH whatever about people's views on the 'sport', the type of pr!cks that participate should be enough to have it banned.


I could go on with incidents that have occurred over the years but I think most people know what 'knuckle-dragging' means...and I won't be entering into any further interaction with Straffan as he/she seems firmly entrenched in their position.

Did you ever hear the expression ‘ Mad as a March hare’ ? I could say you’re as mad as a March .... i’ll Probably be banned

Hares get very dopey in March- that’s when they’re breeding and sometime you could nearly walk up to one and pick him up; their gestation period is 6 weeks and they have leverets in grass nests in May. The coursing season is Oct-Jan - there are no pregnant hares my dear dear friend in the middle of winter( it’s sort of evolutionary as the young would perish) ..... did I say something about mis information in this debate

I rest my case.

strandroad

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Surely the most ridiculous post that I have read on this thread. They were showing the reality of what goes on in these hellholes.

Agreed, the level of "nothing to see here" and "look over there instead" from some posters is astounding, but it also explains so much.

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

But they kept filming it rather than calling the Gardai!

Yes.

It's all the film-maker's fault.

BTW, how do you know they didn't call the Gardaí? Do you think the Gardaí would have dispatched a squad car immediately and 'saved' the dog?

strandroad

strandroad wrote: »

Agreed, the level of "nothing to see here" and "look over there instead" from some posters is astounding, but it also explains so much.

So, you support the filming of greyhounds being shot in the head and sitting idly by? I thought that you were an animal lover “

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Yes.

It's all the film-maker's fault.

BTW, how do you know they didn't call the Gardaí? Do you think the Gardaí would have dispatched a squad car immediately and 'saved' the dog?

Actually after filming the first one, they are equally to blame. Calling the Gardai might just have saved the subsequent deaths on that premises.

jackboy

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Many of these are pregnant at the time they get to have a bit of a chase from a dog.
The Hare hasn't been "trained" to run towards the escape hatch, it has been chased by greyhounds a few days before the actual meet and if it's lucky it figures out where the hatch is located.

Most of the Hares are kept (illegally) after a Coursing meet and sold/donated to the next Meet.
Most Coursing clubs will have a token Hare capture day several weeks prior to their event.....usually they will be lucky to net a dozen Hares on the Day.

You just made all of that up. This sort of stuff should be in the conspiracy theory thread.

Cork Boy 53

Deleted User wrote: »

So, you support the filming of greyhounds being shot in the head and sitting idly by? I thought that you were an animal lover “

Your desperate attempt at deflection is predictable but doomed to failure.