RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

mgbgt1978

Well, the Rangers weren't happy with this meet....



https://www.limerickpost.ie/2015/06/12/animal-cruelty-reported-at-limerick-coursing-meeting/


And even the Top Dog (so to speak) couldn't keep his Paws clean....



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/exgreyhound-board-ceos-dog-in-positive-drug-test-at-derby-30458755.html


All fairly typical with this "sport".

Straffan1979

Straffan1979 wrote: »

The old enemy argument is out now too!

there are a handful of dates in Sept/Feb -of course you won’t post Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan dates just for effect;

You’re suggesting coursing clubs are all running meetings with the use of pregnant hares(many) in the middle of winter which is just again not true.

Oh how will we try and deal them another blow- let’s not say theyre using hares they’re using PREGNANT hares!

I’ve watched this type of tactic from the anti blood sport people since the 80’s and they’re no further down the road now at getting a ban than they were then- the public aren’t stupid in the same way people are wise to the Chinese footage on PTI.

On the last point you are SO wrong.
I’m an ordinary regular person, not an activist. This programme opened my eyes and the eyes of all my friends , family and colleagues. The Chinese footage was horrifying even if it was old footage and dogs that weren’t Irish. If Irish dogs are sent to a country like China with such appalling animal welfare practices that’s all I need to know.
After this exposure from RTÉ the greyhound industry in Ireland is thankfully doomed. Nobody in their right minds will want to sponsor greyhound racing and nobody will want to have a “night with the dogs” from now on !

Straffan1979

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Well, the Rangers weren't happy with this meet....



https://www.limerickpost.ie/2015/06/12/animal-cruelty-reported-at-limerick-coursing-meeting/


And even the Top Dog (so to speak) couldn't keep his Paws clean....



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/exgreyhound-board-ceos-dog-in-positive-drug-test-at-derby-30458755.html


All fairly typical with this "sport".

So the ICC has systems in place to stop hares being coursed that are in poor condition and you use use that against the sport???

It’s like saying the EPA detected a pollution incident- and now they’re responsible for it?


We done the drug thing to death earlier in the post- please go back and read it;

Straffan1979

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On the last point you are SO wrong.
I’m an ordinary regular person, not an activist. This programme opened my eyes and the eyes of all my friends , family and colleagues. The Chinese footage was horrifying even if it was old footage and dogs that weren’t Irish. If Irish dogs are sent to a country like China with such appalling animal welfare practices that’s all I need to know.
After this exposure from RTÉ the greyhound industry in Ireland is thankfully doomed. Nobody in their right minds will want to sponsor greyhound racing and nobody will want to have a “night with the dogs” from now on !

You see that’s fine and I agree with you about China; unfortunately all over the report is referenced Irish Greyhounds Irish Trainers & ICC& IGB for what you acknowledge were - dogs that weren’t Irish and dogs in general of all types coming from Europe to meat markets in Asia-

it’s central to my grievances under fair reporting under the Broadcasting Act. It’s incredibly damaging for the national broadcaster to engage in reporting like this.

PTI have landed themselves in a lot of trouble before with their painting in broad strokes modus operandi.

Bannasidhe

Straffan1979 wrote: »

It’s very very weak reasoning;

if this type of barbarity was part of coursing it would be banned long ages ago; it’s back to trying to discredit and paint people in the Greyhound Industry as some sort of savages who engage freely in brutish type of behavior ( -them knuckle draggers as ur man refered to) .

ICABS have been mining this angle for time and eternity and the public haven’t bought it; the Chinese dog in pot thing is the latest manifestation of this tactic- As I said near the start of this thread I’m taking that particular footage up with Broadcasting Commission.

Guess you just can't handle the truth.

Hares are known to breed every month of the year - including during the coursing season. Unless a female hare is scanned there is no way anyone can say for sure she isn't pregnant. Have you ever seen a hare being scanned prior to a run?

Hares get injured and killed:

At one meeting in Liscannor, County Clare on the 28 and 29 of September last year, an inspector from the NPWS “wished to check the paddock on the morning of the releases but was unable to due to lack of co-operation and intimidation”. At the same event, 14 hares were hit by dogs, with one being injured and three being mauled.

On the issue of lack of cooperation with staff, Treasa Seoighe, a spokesperson for NPWS said:

“The Department is in communication with the Irish Coursing Club on a number of matters arising from the contents of some of the NPWS monitoring reports relating to the operation of the meetings during the 2013/14 season and compliance with the conditions attached to the licences including issues concerning lack of co-operation with NPWS staff.”

https://www.thejournal.ie/coursing-greyhounds-hares-injuries-killed-1594220-Jul2014/

Questions have been raised about the monitoring of hare coursing after a Department of Agriculture veterinary surgeon and a National Parks and Wildlife Service ranger were reported to have given completely different opinions of how four hares died at a coursing meeting in Co Kilkenny.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/reason-for-hare-deaths-differ-at-coursing-meeting-1.3898254?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Feducation%2Freason-for-hare-deaths-differ-at-coursing-meeting-1.3898254

the ICC are still compiling the data for the 2018/19 season which ended at the end of February this year. However, figures available for the 2017/18 season provided by the ICC indicate that some 5,044 hares were captured for coursing meetings, 5,017 hares were coursed, 177 hares pinned and 27 hares died during coursing meetings either through injuries, natural causes or were euthanised.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-04-10/26/

Natural causes? I wonder what those could be? Heart attacks??? Hardly likely to be old age...

In December 2015 there were many hare coursing meetings from which we have reports, just to give a sense of them; In one, there were seven hares struck, three dying of injuries. In another one, there were three hares stuck, with two being put down. In another, six hares were mauled, three were put down and five needed treatment by the vet

http://maureenosullivan.ie/latest-news/just-how-cruel-is-hare-coursing/

Not quite the "trained hare" runs across the field and pops into the waiting hutch all safe and sound that supporters are trying to portray is it?

Bannasidhe

Straffan1979 wrote: »

..and that equates to ‘many hares’ used by coursing clubs are pregnant does it ? This type of fallacy can be blown out of the water every time.

I don’t see the masses rowing in here against this dreadful evil sport of Greyhound racing/Coursing and terrified hares and cruelty and on and on and on -even on boards.ie;
Did it even make Joe Duffy?

There was fierce excitement after PTI that it’d be all wrapped up by next Monday for ICABS and ye’d be away onto Angling or whatever the next crusade.
You generally seem to have the head screwed on and know what your talking about but when you’re resorting to defending the’ knuckle dragging’ comment man the troops must be thin on the ground!

Never mentioned knuckle dragging so I'm not sure how I can be defending it.

I am dealing in verifiable facts. Which I provide links for...

mgbgt1978

Straffan1979 wrote: »

So the ICC has systems in place to stop hares being coursed that are in poor condition and you use use that against the sport???

It’s like saying the EPA detected a pollution incident- and now they’re responsible for it?
Did you actually read any part of this article ? It relates to 5 separate breaches of the rules.



We done the drug thing to death earlier in the post- please go back and read it;

...

...and as for constantly referring to the 'knuckle-dragging' reference, you know exactly what I meant and your constant references to it only show how poor the rationale for coursing really is.

Straffan1979

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Guess you just can't handle the truth.

Hares are known to breed every month of the year - including during the coursing season. Unless a female hare is scanned there is no way anyone can say for sure she isn't pregnant. Have you ever seen a hare being scanned prior to a run?

Hares get injured and killed:
https://www.thejournal.ie/coursing-greyhounds-hares-injuries-killed-1594220-Jul2014/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/reason-for-hare-deaths-differ-at-coursing-meeting-1.3898254?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Feducation%2Freason-for-hare-deaths-differ-at-coursing-meeting-1.3898254

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-04-10/26/

Natural causes? I wonder what those could be? Heart attacks??? Hardly likely to be old age...


http://maureenosullivan.ie/latest-news/just-how-cruel-is-hare-coursing/

Not quite the "trained hare" runs across the field and pops into the waiting hutch all safe and sound that supporters are trying to portray is it?

Why are you posting this? If 1 hare got knocked over you’ll have an article from google for me- so you win and I’m wrong?

Hares get killed at Coursing meetings-I never said they didn’t; very few now days but I never claimed in this thread at any point that they didn’t;

I respect you are totally against the sport but the above is not relevant to what this thread was about;I’m trying to defend here the attempt to totally demonise Greyhound owners through the use of skewed reporting on PTI that in my view is actually illegal -that’s all.

mgbgt1978

Perhaps if you could post a decent response to post #667 this you could help defend your hobby.

Straffan1979

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Perhaps if you could post a decent response to post #667 this you could help defend your hobby.

I’m on a phone here - can’t see any reference to numbered posts
.. probably linked to the knuckles dragging the ground

Bannasidhe

Straffan1979 wrote: »

Why are you posting this? If 1 hare got knocked over you’ll have an article from google for me- so you win and I’m wrong?

Hares get killed at Coursing meetings-I never said they didn’t; very few now days but I never claimed in this thread at any point that they didn’t;

I respect you are totally against the sport but the above is not relevant to what this thread was about;I’m trying to defend here the attempt to totally demonise Greyhound owners through the use of skewed reporting on PTI that in my view is actually illegal -that’s all.

I am posting this so that people know that hares get killed during coursing events.

27 died in the 2017/18 season. It's right there on the government's own website. I supplied the link already.

There have been official complains made of Park Wardens being intimidated by event organisers. I supplied the link already.

That is the truth about hare coursing.

Intimidation of officials and the death of hares. If that is the so-called 'sport' you want to be part of than that is your choice. Personally, I don't get why animals need to die to entertain humans.

I don't need to demonise " greyhound owners" - many of them are doing a fine job demonising greyhound owners all by themselves. All I need to do is post the evidence and let people decide for themselves. If it wasn't happening I wouldn't be finding it so easily.

I happen to know many greyhound owners btw, they don't race or breed them. They adopted the discarded who were dumped in pounds. Ironically the ones that end up in the pounds are the lucky one because "antis" are around running rescues that get them out, get them well, and get them homes.

Straffan1979

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Apparently Bank of Ireland and FBD have said they will no longer sponsor greyhound racing.

That’s great - the ICC/IGB and Greyhound owners don’t want to be associated with them crooks either; bankrupt the country and put USC on my wage slip for rest of my working days - and them thugs at the top are goin to pontificate to Greyhound owners about the law- if we were in Iceland they’d be jail - just remember that

Straffan1979

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I am posting this so that people know that hares get killed during coursing events.

27 died in the 2017/18 season. It's right there on the government's own website. I supplied the link already.

There have been official complains made of Park Wardens being intimidated by event organisers. I supplied the link already.

That is the truth about hare coursing.

Intimidation of officials and the death of hares. If that is the so-called 'sport' you want to be part of than that is your choice. Personally, I don't get why animals need to die to entertain humans.

I don't need to demonise " greyhound owners" - many of them are doing a fine job demonising greyhound owners all by themselves. All I need to do is post the evidence and let people decide for themselves. If it wasn't happening I wouldn't be finding it so easily.

I happen to know many greyhound owners btw, they don't race or breed them. They adopted the discarded who were dumped in pounds. Ironically the ones that end up in the pounds are the lucky one because "antis" are around running rescues that get them out, get them well, and get them homes.

The public knows hares get killed at meetings; they also get killed on roads and by buzzards and silage mowers and lots of things- ban them all.

They’re doin a lot better on ICC lands than they are everywhere else; the coursing people r the hares biggest supporters in the country- do u realize that; there’s nobody else gives2 f**ks about hares; all the kids r on their iPhones- they won’t care less if there’s ever a hare in the country ever again; this is the tragic irony of the war on coursing people

Bannasidhe

Straffan1979 wrote: »

That’s great - the ICC/IGB and Greyhound owners don’t want to be associated with them crooks either; bankrupt the country and put USC on my wage slip for rest of my working days - and them thugs at the top are goin to pontificate to Greyhound owners about the law- if we were in Iceland they’d be jail - just remember that

Ah now. The IGB were more than willing to make money from the Chinese so I doubt if they give a monkey's where the money comes from as long as it's coming.

As for the bankers who got us into the financial mess - I absolutely agree they should have been given the Iceland treatment.

See - we can find common ground.

Tilikum17

Wife was watching it this eve. Just caught the last 10mins. I’ll watch it tomorrow. Yer man waiting for his lead with the dog still writhing in pain.

I would love to have 5mins with that lad.

Bannasidhe

Straffan1979 wrote: »

The public knows hares get killed at meetings; they also get killed on roads and by buzzards and silage mowers and lots of things- ban them all.

They’re doin a lot better on ICC lands than they are everywhere else; the coursing people r the hares biggest supporters in the country- do u realize that; there’s nobody else gives2 f**ks about hares; all the kids r on their iPhones- they won’t care less if there’s ever a hare in the country ever again; this is the tragic irony of the war on coursing people

Nope.

Killing animals for entertainment is something I can't stomach.
I found this out aged 12 when I was brought on my first (and last) fox hunt.
What I saw that day was revolting.
So called civilised people all gussied up in their finery (don't get me wrong - I love the outfits) rejoicing as the hounds tore a fox apart.

I have no problem with hunting for food. In fact I help a friend butcher the deer she has to have culled (by an expert with a rifle) as I know how to do it and have all the knives. I get venison in return.
I eat meat - I buy it through a local ethical food co-op so it's coming from local small farmers. Keeping the money local and supporting small businesses.
I have been known to go sea angling (haven't the patience for fly fishing) and then I eat what I catch.

But no - terrorizing a wild animal for entertainment is, imho, just wrong.

Deliberately overbreeding greyhounds and just disposing of the surplus in the cheapest way possible is just wrong.

Drugging dogs to speed them up/slow them down is wrong.

Killing dogs because they are too slow is wrong.

Millions from the government every year when we have a so many serious issues that need funding to subsidize a betting industry based on the deliberate exploitation of dogs is beyond wrong. It is immoral.

€99.6 million in the last 9 years just to the IGB -how much of our USC was that do you think?

Straffan1979

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Nope.

Killing animals for entertainment is something I can't stomach.
I found this out aged 12 when I was brought on my first (and last) fox hunt.
What I saw that day was revolting.
So called civilised people all gussied up in their finery (don't get me wrong - I love the outfits) rejoicing as the hounds tore a fox apart.

I have no problem with hunting for food. In fact I help a friend butcher the deer she has to have culled (by an expert with a rifle) as I know how to do it and have all the knives. I get venison in return.
I eat meat - I buy it through a local ethical food co-op so it's coming from local small farmers. Keeping the money local and supporting small businesses.
I have been known to go sea angling (haven't the patience for fly fishing) and then I eat what I catch.

But no - terrorizing a wild animal for entertainment is, imho, just wrong.

Deliberately overbreeding greyhounds and just disposing of the surplus in the cheapest way possible is just wrong.

Drugging dogs to speed them up/slow them down is wrong.

Killing dogs because they are too slow is wrong.

Millions from the government every year when we have a so many serious issues that need funding to subsidize a betting industry based on the deliberate exploitation of dogs is beyond wrong. It is immoral.

€99.6 million in the last 9 years just to the IGB -how much of our USC was that do you think?

look u won’t need to ban coursing if the drug problem etc isn’t sorted because it’s finished anyway;

People have acknowledged the factual problems facing the IGB- a lot of these r general dog breeding problems for Europe rather than Greyhound specific - there is an abhorrence for eating dogs in Asia that will force legislators to act in this regard.

As I said If coursing goes you’ll realise nobody gives a damn about hares in Ireland- in real terms where they actually are actively involved in the numbers of hares and stopping lurchers snd poaching.

They might jump up and down for PTI and stamp their feet on Grafton street and sign ur petition but they’ll do nothing for hares in Ireland.

Most worrying for all country pursuits is the iPhone generation who don’t want to go fishing or hunting or have anything to do with these type of pursuits or care if there’s fish in the rivers or pollution or hares or anything else ; all these pursuits r dominated by grey haired people now- they’re finished anyway as far as I see it;

Over & Out.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually after filming the first one, they are equally to blame. Calling the Gardai might just have saved the subsequent deaths on that premises.

Actually it wouldn't have as their license falls under the auspices of the department of agriculture, who said that they would review the evidence provided by the program makers.

Only removing their license will prevent future cases at least at the yards, plenty of greyhounds are found killed by shooting etc.
Unlikely to be the result of a sheep farmer shooting them as they report attacks to the guards and to dog wardens, especially if it means that the owner might be identified.

You also have some greyhound owners insisting that the dog is euthanizedwhen surrendered to the pound and refusing to allow the dog be homed. Their brought to the pound because it's cheaper than going to a veterinary practice, and most practices will refuse to euthanize a healthy dog. The pounds can't refuse to take a surrendered dog and can't refuse the owners insistence that they not rehome the dog.

ILoveYourVibes

I watched the documentary finally I hadn't before. This post is probably going to offend SO many people ..and i will probably get flagged.

I'll probably delete it. In fact I know I am going to get flagged.

But i mean a spade is a spade.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/immediate-review-of-issuing-of-knackery-licences-to-be-held-1.3939405?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fimmediate-review-of-issuing-of-knackery-licences-to-be-held-1.3939405

Knacker yards are to have licenses looked at now.

The true meaning of the word knacker was was someone connected to the knackery yard.



That word got skewed and was aimed at a minority quite unjustly. In my opinion if you supply the knackery yard with a surplus of business you should be called a knacker. Its not to do with your background its just a description of the industry you are connected to.

I think some people in the industry need to ask themselves what in the white trash are they doing?

If this was travelers doing this they would all be prison.

But no it's middle class/upper class white POSH Irish people ...so they are given millions in taxpayers money.

This is just BAFFLING.

I mean after a while of watching the horribleness etc I got a bit bored. The horror had no impact anymore and i started to think.

HOW STUPID are these people?? I mean how badly do you have mismanage your business to end up in those situations?

If you are so stingy you cannot feed a dog or give it to a rescues i reckon you must be the type of person to use your teabags twice! Dogs are not hard or expensive to look after.


I mean how to gear yourself up for that?? So as part of my business etc i am just about to drown some dogs.

I mean what in the white trash??? I mean are some people in the dog racing business a little slow???

I've probably been too blunt. But this was honestly what was going through my mind...how dumb are these people?

ILoveYourVibes

Oh and next time can the govt give that money to the arts?? No animals or humans are harmed.

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

How many of you have actually seen an Irish Hare running wild in Ireland?

It’s quite a sight and I’ve only seen it 3 times in my lifetime and it was so special every time.

I have; we have a lot of them here. Watched a pair of them literally racing across the shore.. Bliss...:)

Igotadose

Deleted User wrote: »

So, you support the filming of greyhounds being shot in the head and sitting idly by? I thought that you were an animal lover “

So, where's the 10,000 people depending on Greyhound racing you lied about earlier in the thread? The IGB didn't agree with you.

Gotta love your attempt at deflection here. Why don't you contact the RTE and ask why, see if you get a response.

Igotadose

Igotadose wrote: »

So, where's the 10,000 people depending on Greyhound racing you lied about earlier in the thread? The IGB didn't agree with you.

Gotta love your attempt at deflection here. Why don't you contact the RTE and ask why, see if you get a response.

The greyhound industry as a whole is bigger than those employed in IGB headquarters. They don’t pay the wages of trainers, breeders and their staff. I stand corrected. It’s 5,000 directly and 12,000 indirectly with the industry contributing €300,000,000 annually to the economy.

You might be interested in this https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-02-06/30/

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

The greyhound industry as a whole is bigger than those employed in IGB headquarters. They don’t pay the wages of trainers, breeders and their staff. I stand corrected. It’s 5,000 directly and 12,000 indirectly with the industry contributing €300,000,000 annually to the economy.

You might be interested in this https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-02-06/30/

Do you really think that killing thousands of dogs is ok if it benefits the economy ?

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

Do you really think that killing thousands of dogs is ok if it benefits the economy ?

Once again the report commissioned by IGB found up to 6,000 greyhounds unaccounted for. Not killed. Unaccounted for.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

Once again the report commissioned by IGB found up to 6,000 greyhounds unaccounted for. Not killed. Unaccounted for.

So where do you think they are ? You know how many pups are bred, you know how few dogs make the grade ? So where are they ?

One man alone was convicted in the UK of killing 10,000. Many of them Irish Dogs.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-man-whos-shot-10000-greyhounds-634089

gozunda

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Oh and next time can the govt give that money to the arts?? No animals or humans are harmed.

Thing is I knew of people in this area who keep greyhounds and in my experience those animals are incredibly well looked after. Mostly it's an older age group and their passion and only interest is their dogs. In one case an older man who never married and his greyhounds are everything to him and they eat better than he does. And that is one of the issues of that programme and much of the kneejerk reaction to it tbh. The program generalises and everyone gets tarred with the same brush and oh look they eat dogs in China. Yes they do. But conflating the idea that greyhounds are sent out there specifically to be eaten is bs at best. Then there are people practically getting off that the report exists. From what Ive read there are big problems with some breeders and illegal coursing is a huge issue. However the fact is the findings of the report used in the programme are disputed and for that it was never released. Now theres some making hay out of that and it's all a conspiracy. Coupled with the ban everything brigade and suddenly it's armegedon...

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

Thing is I knew of people in this area who keep greyhounds and in my experience those animals are incredibly well looked after. Mostly it's an older age group and their passion and only interest is their dogs. In one case an older man who never married and his greyhounds are everything to him and they eat better than he does. And that is one of the issues of that programme and much of the kneejerk reaction to it tbh. The program generalises and everyone gets tarred with the same brush and oh look they eat dogs in China. Yes they do. But conflating the idea that greyhounds are sent out there specifically to be eaten is bs at best. Then there are people practically getting off that the report exists. From what Ive read there are big problems with some breeders and illegal coursing is a huge issue. However the fact is the findings of the report used in the programme are disputed and for that it was never released. Now theres some making hay out of that and it's all a conspiracy. Coupled with the ban everything brigade and suddenly it's armegedon...

So why aren't they protesting outside the IGB/ICC. No dog lover could partake or want any connection with a "sport" that kills so many dogs ?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Once again the report commissioned by IGB found up to 6,000 greyhounds unaccounted for. Not killed. Unaccounted for.

Really, what other industry do the department of agriculture allow 6,000 animals go unaccounted for?

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

So why aren't they protesting outside the IGB/ICC. No dog lover could partake or want any connection with a "sport" that kills so many dogs ?

Again it does not matter to you if greyhound owners did everything you wanted. You are against racing full stop - that goes back. Btw I have no idea what their thoughts about igb/icc. Maybe you would like to interrogate them?

But again everyone is 'killing' dogs. Would you feck off with making hay with that disputed report. The people I knew are decent ordinary guys who look after their animals. But sure go ahead and demonize everyone. That's part of the course isn't it with this kind of stuff.