RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

Again it does not matter to you if greyhound owners did everything you wanted. You are against racing full stop - that goes back. Btw I have no idea what their thoughts about igb/icc. Maybe you would like to interrogate them?

But again everyone is 'killing' dogs. Would you feck off with making hay with that disputed report. The people I knew are decent ordinary guys who look after their animals. But sure go ahead and demonize everyone. That's part of the course isn't it discodog? :rolleyes:

If you mean that I support animal welfare then yes.

Racing won't stop anytime soon. If the responsible owners cared they would be moving heaven & earth to assure us that this will never happen again. They would open up their organisations to scrutiny instead of hiding - even from the Data Commissioner.

It's disputed by you so that means it's a pack of lies ? Where are the thousands of missing dogs ?

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Again it does not matter to you if greyhound owners did everything you wanted. You are against racing full stop - that goes back. Btw I have no idea what their thoughts about igb/icc. Maybe you would like to interrogate them?

But again everyone is 'killing' dogs. Would you feck off with making hay with that disputed report. The people I knew are decent ordinary guys who look after their animals. But sure go ahead and demonize everyone. That's part of the course isn't it discodog? :rolleyes:

If I was involved with this sport , even if I loved and cared for my dogs , and if I knew or heard of the levels of abuse and undercover disposal of thousands of these dogs, I wouldn’t want anything to do with it. I’d be out!

Morally how could any dog lover continue to involved with a sport with such appalling animal welfare issues? I’d say your friends are well aware but turn a blind eye which makes them just as culpable. They should be blowing whistles and informing authorities about abuse in this industry. I know I would .

A lack of support both commercially from sponsors and government and from the public themselves is what will bring the downfall of greyhound racing in Ireland. That day is coming.

strandroad

DubInMeath wrote: »

Really, what other industry do the department of agriculture allow 6,000 animals go unaccounted for?

The 6000 is only before they are raced. The 10000 who are raced, what do you think happens to them when they are not good enough or too old? The needle or the skip too, with only some lucky souls rehomed but it's nowhere near thousands.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

So where do you think they are ? You know how many pups are bred, you know how few dogs make the grade ? So where are they ?

One man alone was convicted in the UK of killing 10,000. Many of them Irish Dogs.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-man-whos-shot-10000-greyhounds-634089

Unfortunately, no one knows. Measures have been put in place in order for it to never happen again but attitudes need change. In the Uk, if a dog hasn’t races for a certain number of days, the registered owner is contacted to disclose the animals whereabouts.

jackboy

Deleted User wrote: »

If I was involved with this sport , even if I loved and cared for my dogs , and if I knew or heard of the levels of abuse and undercover disposal of thousands of these dogs, I wouldn’t want anything to do with it. I’d be out!

Easy to say this. However, if you were doing something responsible for your whole life it would not be easy to give it up because someone else was irresponsible. Are you a vegan? If not you are involved in animal abuse just as bad as what was seen in that program. Enforced appropriate regulation is the only way to improve things. Having a go at individuals will not work.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

If you mean that I support animal welfare then yes.Racing won't stop anytime soon. If the responsible owners cared they would be moving heaven & earth to assure us that this will never happen again. They would open up their organisations to scrutiny instead of hiding - even from the Data Commissioner.It's disputed by you so that means it's a pack of lies ? Where are the thousands of missing dogs ?

No particular beliefs are not relevant. But yes your ideas about working dogs are well published here and imo they at the extreme end of that spectrum.

As I said perhaps you would like to find out and interrogate those men who look after their greyhounds that I referred to? They could very well be writing long letters and making representations to thos organisations. The thing is I dont know and neither do you. You are casting doubts on anyone and everyone who doesn't sign up to one particular view of greyhounds. But you know what - there's a job for you. No one seems to know. Rather than wasting energy shouting about it - go start an investigation where the missing dogs went.

jackboy

jackboy wrote: »

Easy to say this. However, if you were doing something responsible for your whole life it would not be easy to give it up because someone else was irresponsible. Are you a vegan? If not you are involved in animal abuse just as bad as what was seen in that program. Enforced appropriate regulation is the only way to improve things. Having a go at individuals will not work.

Yes I’m a vegan,both my daughters are too.

I’m not having a go at individuals. I’m on this thread like everyone else and have a right to agree or disagree with other posts. Cattle , pigs and sheep are euthanized more humanely. At least they are bred in direct response to demand. Thousands of greyhounds are killed because out of a litter of 10 pups only one might be good enough! That poor dog was left writhing in agony after a botched gunshot to his head by a blood covered knacker in a dirty backyard.


My brother in law is a Dept of Ag inspector (the irony when I am vegan ) who audits abattoirs for the food industry , they are very highly regulated from a welfare point of view and very strictly monitored. Unlike the IGB who have been turning a blind eye to the murky side of greyhound breeding. They would have been only too well aware of the wastage of these dogs!

(On a separate note I cannot even contemplate the lives of caged chickens and dogs kept on puppy farms ... We have an appalling track record in animal welfare in Ireland. BUT this thread is about greyhounds and this issue needs to be kept in the public domain - thank you RTÉ !)

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If I was involved with this sport , even if I loved and cared for my dogs , and if I knew or heard of the levels of abuse and undercover disposal of thousands of these dogs, I wouldn’t want anything to do with it. I’d be out!
Morally how could any dog lover continue to involved with a sport with such appalling animal welfare issues? I’d say your friends are well aware but turn a blind eye which makes them just as culpable. They should be blowing whistles and informing authorities about abuse in this industry. I know I would . A lack of support both commercially from sponsors and government and from the public themselves is what will bring the downfall of greyhound racing in Ireland. That day is coming.

Theres many things in life that have huge issues. Old peoples homes, politics, institutionalised child abuse. And yet people get on with their lives and seek to improve these things. But hey look greyhound owners - let's attack them and blame them all!

The people I referred to are the ordinary decent face of this. Unfortunately what RTE and others have done is to demonize everyone.

And that's the point you or I do not know what their thoughts about what's going on. So you can stop the puerile attack on people you do not know.

Is their problems yes - is there a witch hunt of many ordinary decent people - yes there is.

The new 'Irish' solution eh - ban everything :rolleyes:

Doctors room ghost

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes I’m a vegan,both my daughters are too.

I’m not having a go at individuals. I’m on this thread like everyone else and have a right to agree or disagree with other posts. Cattle , pigs and sheep are euthanized more humanely. At least they are bred in direct response to demand. Thousands of greyhounds are killed because out of a litter of 10 pups only one might be good enough! That poor dog was left writhing in agony after a botched gunshot to his head by a blood covered knacker in a dirty backyard.


My brother in law is a Dept of Ag inspector (the irony when I am vegan ) who audits abattoirs for the food industry , they are very highly regulated from a welfare point of view and very strictly monitored. Unlike the IGB who have been turning a blind eye to the murky side of greyhound breeding. They would have been only too well aware of the wastage of these dogs!

(On a separate note I cannot even contemplate the lives of caged chickens and dogs kept on puppy farms ... We have an appalling track record in animal welfare in Ireland. BUT this thread is about greyhounds and this issue needs to be kept in the public domain - thank you RTÉ !)

If the abattoirs are highly regulated and strictly monitored as you say how were they involved in the hush hush slaughter of horses and putting the same horse meat in packages labeled as beef.
It’s a load of boll1x the lot of it.
The department of agriculture is a joke shop.
As for bord bia and farm to fork traceability its a fcukin farce the lot of it.
Them clowns couldn’t even tell if it was horse or beef in a lasagna ffs.
There’s nothing as corrupt as paddy Irishman and don’t be fooled

gozunda

DubInMeath wrote: »

Really, what other industry do the department of agriculture allow 6,000 animals go unaccounted for?

Well for one I reckon the pet dog industry would show many thousands of multiples well above that number if it was properly investigated. Up to recently there have been little or no controls on what happens to pups breed for sale. You only have to look at the huge number of pets being taken in by the dog Pounds overv the last 5 years to get the scale of the over breeding and treatment of these animals. But then hey no one wants to know about that...

Bannasidhe

gozunda wrote: »

Well for one I reckon the pet dog industry would show many thousands of multiples well above that number if it was properly investigated. Up to recently there have been little or no controls on what happens to pups breed for sale. You only have to look at the huge number of pets being taken in by the dog Pounds overv the last 5 years to get the scale of the over breeding and treatment of these animals. But then hey no one wants to know about that...

The breeding of puppies for the domestic market is an outright scandal. No-one has said differently. Thanks to a long campaign by animal welfare groups there was recently a breeder sent to jail - of course it was rescues who had to deal with the poor dogs - and there were people defending him on thread on boards.

BUT -this is about the GREYHOUND industry.

The IGB did nothing to regulate.
Nothing to prevent overbreeding.
Response to doping is pathetic.
A former chairman went on radio and said that dogs being killed was acceptable.

These ordinary, decent, greyhound owners you talk about could have taken action. They could have refuse to participate in race meets until the whole industry was cleaned up.
They were quick enough to form a picket against Harold's Cross being sold. https://www.rte.ie/sport/other-sport/2017/0209/851318-row-over/

Their silence is deafening.

Bannasidhe

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Oh and next time can the govt give that money to the arts?? No animals or humans are harmed.

The rescues who are trying to clean up the mess and help the dogs could do with some of that money.

Bannasidhe

Discodog wrote: »

Do you really think that killing thousands of dogs is ok if it benefits the economy ?

In May 2017 on live radio (Cork's 96FM) a former chairman of the IGB came right out and said it's acceptable.

These are the people in charge.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The breeding of puppies for the domestic market is an outright scandal. No-one has said differently. Thanks to a long campaign by animal welfare groups there was recently a breeder sent to jail - of course it was rescues who had to deal with the poor dogs - and there were people defending him on thread on boards.

BUT -this is about the GREYHOUND industry.

The IGB did nothing to regulate.
Nothing to prevent overbreeding.
Response to doping is pathetic.
A former chairman went on radio and said that dogs being killed was acceptable.

These ordinary, decent, greyhound owners you talk about could have taken action. They could have refuse to participate in race meets until the whole industry was cleaned up.
They were quick enough to form a picket against Harold's Cross being sold. https://www.rte.ie/sport/other-sport/2017/0209/851318-row-over/

Their silence is deafening.

Maybe their voices being drowned out by the self righteous wailing of those who don’t like greyhound racing.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

In May 2017 on live radio (Cork's 96FM) a former chairman of the IGB came right out and said it's acceptable.

These are were the people in charge.

FYP

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe their voices being drowned out by the self righteous wailing of those who don’t like greed that dominates the greyhound racing.

Since we are now apparently FYPing each other's posts rather than actually making points in a discussion.

Graces7

gozunda wrote: »

Theres many things in life that have huge issues. Old peoples homes, politics, institutionalised child abuse. And yet people get on with their lives and seek to improve these things. But hey look greyhound owners - let's attack them and blame them all!

The people I referred to are the ordinary decent face of this. Unfortunately what RTE and others have done is to demonize everyone.

And that's the point you or I do not know what their thoughts about what's going on. So you can stop the puerile attack on people you do not know.

Is their problems yes - is there a witch hunt of many ordinary decent people - yes there is.

The new 'Irish' solution eh - ban everything :rolleyes:

Please stop deflecting over and over again from this single issue? it does nothing except invalidate your arguments

Yes there are problems in many areas but YES there is a huge problem re greyhounds as the thread title specifically says.

That is what is under discussion.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Since we are now apparently FYPing each other's posts rather than actually making points in a discussion.

I rest my case.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

Unfortunately, no one knows. Measures have been put in place in order for it to never happen again but attitudes need change. In the Uk, if a dog hasn’t races for a certain number of days, the registered owner is contacted to disclose the animals whereabouts.

Yes & this has been promised over & over again. Whenever these problems surface the industry close ranks & stay quiet. They sit tight & let things blow over. The offenders know to lay low. But nothing actually changes.

How about prosecutions ? Not slaps on the wrist & allowing them back, but jail. The UK have recently increased animal cruelty sentences to 5 years. I am sure that you & the other supporters would welcome this ?

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

No particular beliefs are not relevant. But yes your ideas about working dogs are well published here and imo they at the extreme end of that spectrum.

As I said perhaps you would like to find out and interrogate those men who look after their greyhounds that I referred to? They could very well be writing long letters and making representations to thos organisations. The thing is I dont know and neither do you. You are casting doubts on anyone and everyone who doesn't sign up to one particular view of greyhounds. But you know what - there's a job for you. No one seems to know. Rather than wasting energy shouting about it - go start an investigation where the missing dogs went.

I don't need to as the IGB & RTE have already shown to the World that thousands are killed. If there are people, in the industry that want change, then the time is past for sitting at home writing letters. It's their industry, that couldn't exist without them & they need to be shouting from the rooftops.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

Yes & this has been promised over & over again. Whenever these problems surface the industry close ranks & stay quiet. They sit tight & let things blow over. The offenders know to lay low. But nothing actually changes.

How about prosecutions ? Not slaps on the wrist & allowing them back, but jail. The UK have recently increased animal cruelty sentences to 5 years. I am sure that you & the other supporters would welcome this ?

From Igb site https://www.igb.ie/talking-dogs/irish-greyhound-board-statement-28th-june-2019/
“IRISH GREYHOUND BOARD STATEMENT: 28TH JUNE, 2019
IGB

Following a special meeting of the Board of the Irish Greyhound Board today, the Board again condemned the illegal practices outlined in the Prime Time Investigates programme, broadcast on the 26th of June, 2019.

In the short term, the Board has immediately approved the following range of measures:

- Introduction of a greyhound injury support scheme to provide financial assistance to aid injured greyhounds to continue with a healthy life.

- Extending and increasing support under the IGB scheme for foster care of greyhounds to identify new foster homes within Ireland for greyhounds.

- Revision, in conjunction with the International Greyhound Welfare Forum, of the Code of Practice on the Care and Welfare of the Greyhound to address retirement and transportation of greyhounds.

- Financially incentivise the rehoming of greyhounds in Ireland through additional supports though the Irish Retired Greyhound Trust (which assisted in the rehoming of 1,021 greyhounds last year).

- Intensify its inspection regime of greyhound establishments (491 inspections were undertaken in 2018).

- Preparation of a statutory instrument to make it a legal requirement that euthanasia of a greyhound must be carried out by a veterinary practitioner. (this is already the standard expected under the IGB Code of Practice for the Care and Welfare of the Greyhound).

- Provision of the Code of Practice to all greyhound owners registered with the IGB and emphasise the requirement to fully comply with the standards expected.

- Progress the traceability provisions of the Greyhound Act 2019 though the establishing of a working group with the Irish Coursing Club (as keeper of the Stud Book) and industry representatives to devise a traceability model and a draft of the proposed statutory regulations.

- Establish a confidential Freephone line to enable reports of welfare breaches to be reported to the IGB for investigation by relevant agencies.

The Board has instructed that the Prime Time programme be reviewed in depth by the executive of the IGB to identify any actions that require to be followed up by the IGB. The Board will be seeking that RTE provides the IGB with all documented evidence gathered while researching the programme so that any breaches of the law can be pursued. The Board has also committed its full cooperation to other agencies and will provide whatever assistance is necessary in relation to any prosecutions.

The Board has also asked that an overall costed five year plan for the ‘care of the greyhound’ by devised for consideration by the National Greyhound Consultative Forum and for approval by the Board in the current year.

Chairman of the Irish Greyhound Board, Frank Nyhan, commented: “The actions evident by an irresponsible minority within the greyhound industry have no place in this sport and will not be tolerated. The IGB will continue to work with all agencies to ensure that such illegal activity is rooted out and those responsible are subject to prosecution for breaches of the law. Now that the Greyhound Racing Act 2019 has been finalised it is the Board’s clear intent to continue on its programme of further regulation within the sector.”



28th June, 2019”

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

Well for one I reckon the pet dog industry would show many thousands of multiples well above that number if it was properly investigated. Up to recently there have been little or no controls on what happens to pups breed for sale. You only have to look at the huge number of pets being taken in by the dog Pounds overv the last 5 years to get the scale of the over breeding and treatment of these animals. But then hey no one wants to know about that...

What an utter load of rubbish. People have been actively campaigning against the puppy trade for years. You are just using it as deflection & whataboutery.

gozunda

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The breeding of puppies for the domestic market is an outright scandal. No-one has said differently. Thanks to a long campaign by animal welfare groups there was recently a breeder sent to jail - of course it was rescues who had to deal with the poor dogs - and there were people defending him on thread on boards.BUT -this is about the GREYHOUND industry.The IGB did nothing to regulate.Nothing to prevent overbreeding.
Response to doping is pathetic.
A former chairman went on radio and said that dogs being killed was acceptable. These ordinary, decent, greyhound owners you talk about could have taken action. They could have refuse to participate in race meets until the whole industry was cleaned up.
They were quick enough to form a picket against Harold's Cross being sold. https://www.rte.ie/sport/other-sport/2017/0209/851318-row-over/
Their silence is deafening.

Rant over? The other poster did ask what other sector could animals be unaccounted for. Hence my reply. And yes the pet industry is a disgrace. Due to where I live - I get many pets dumped here. And I'd like to hang those directly responsible up :mad:

But no I doubt blame responsible pet owners or breeders. That's the difference.

Let me paraphrase a little for contrast to show how that doesnt t follow

"These ordinary, decent, pet owners you talk about could have taken action. They could have refuse to participate in buyng pupies until the whole industry was cleaned up."

The silence is deafening...

Graces7 wrote: »

Please stop deflecting over and over again from this single issue? it does nothing except invalidate your argumentsYes there are problems in many areas but YES there is a huge problem re greyhounds as the thread title specifically says. That is what is under discussion.

Grace with respect the other poster asked which other sector could animals be unaccounted for. I answered that question with the pet industry. So yes that IS relevant.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

From Igb site https://www.igb.ie/talking-dogs/irish-greyhound-board-statement-28th-june-2019/


Chairman of the Irish Greyhound Board, Frank Nyhan, commented: “The actions evident by an irresponsible minority within the greyhound industry have no place in this sport and will not be tolerated. The IGB will continue to work with all agencies to ensure that such illegal activity is rooted out and those responsible are subject to prosecution for breaches of the law. Now that the Greyhound Racing Act 2019 has been finalised it is the Board’s clear intent to continue on its programme of further regulation within the sector.”



28th June, 2019”

We've heard it all before over & over & over again. What will happen to the thousands of unwanted pups every year ?

They haven't promised to stop killing but have said that it must be done by a Vet. Still thousands of dead dogs.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

I don't need to as the IGB & RTE have already shown to the World that thousands are killed. If there are people, in the industry that want change, then the time is past for sitting at home writing letters. It's their industry, that couldn't exist without them & they need to be shouting from the rooftops.

So why if you unequivocally believe RTE do you keep badgering others and asking them where the animals are?

As it stands the report and its findings are disputed. But hey ignore that. No worries.

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

So why if you unequivocally believe RTE do you keep badgering others and asking them where the animals are?

As it stands the report and its findings are disputed. But hey ignore that. No worries.

Because they & you continue to deny that thousands of dogs are killed & will continue to be killed.

The instruction that all Greyhounds must be killed by a Vet will backfire. Already most vets oppose killing healthy dogs & the numbers will be recorded.

When people used the Pound to kill their Greyhounds the message went out to stop the practice as the numbers were recorded & reflected badly on the industry. The same will happen with the Vets.

There simply isn't a way to produce enough dogs to race without producing thousands that aren't good enough.

Bannasidhe

gozunda wrote: »

Rant over? The other poster did ask what other sector could animals be unaccounted for. Hence my reply. And yes the pet industry is a disgrace. Due to where I live - I get many pets dumped here. And I'd like to hang those directly responsible up :mad:

But no I doubt blame responsible pet owners or breeders. That's the difference.

Let me paraphrase a little for contrast to show how that doesnt t follow

"These ordinary, decent, pet owners you talk about could have taken action. They could have refuse to participate in buyng pupies until the whole industry was cleaned up."

The silence is deafening...



Grace with respect the other poster asked which other sector could animals be unaccounted for. I answered that question with the pet industry. So yes that IS relevant.

Finished being condescending?

You have been banging the whatabout these other dogs drum for days. Where is your thread about that?

Nowhere, much like the decent greyhound owners protests and the industry they are involved in.

You prefer to try and deflect and derail this thread.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

What an utter load of rubbish. People have been actively campaigning against the puppy trade for years. You are just using it as deflection & whataboutery.

You deny there are over 10,000 dogs taken in by pounds each year over the last 5 years? Really?
The problem is the highlighted issues of the greyhound industry are only part of a much bigger malaise when it comes to dogs and breeding. And that is the POINT. Deny that all you like

Discodog

I haven't mentioned Pound statistics because they have nothing to do with this thread except when they refer to Greyhounds. But 900 dogs were killed in Pounds including 80 Greyhounds & the number is falling every years. That's 900 not 6000.

Pete Wedderburn - a highly respected Vet puts the figure at closer to 10,000

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligochampion/lifestyle/the-grim-underbelly-of-the-greyhound-industry-30750885.html

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

From Igb site https://www.igb.ie/talking-dogs/irish-greyhound-board-statement-28th-june-2019/
“IRISH GREYHOUND BOARD STATEMENT: 28TH JUNE, 2019
IGB

Following a special meeting of the Board of the Irish Greyhound Board today, the Board again condemned the illegal practices outlined in the Prime Time Investigates programme, broadcast on the 26th of June, 2019.

In the short term, the Board has immediately approved the following range of measures:

- Introduction of a greyhound injury support scheme to provide financial assistance to aid injured greyhounds to continue with a healthy life.

- Extending and increasing support under the IGB scheme for foster care of greyhounds to identify new foster homes within Ireland for greyhounds.

- Revision, in conjunction with the International Greyhound Welfare Forum, of the Code of Practice on the Care and Welfare of the Greyhound to address retirement and transportation of greyhounds.

- Financially incentivise the rehoming of greyhounds in Ireland through additional supports though the Irish Retired Greyhound Trust (which assisted in the rehoming of 1,021 greyhounds last year).

- Intensify its inspection regime of greyhound establishments (491 inspections were undertaken in 2018).

- Preparation of a statutory instrument to make it a legal requirement that euthanasia of a greyhound must be carried out by a veterinary practitioner. (this is already the standard expected under the IGB Code of Practice for the Care and Welfare of the Greyhound).

- Provision of the Code of Practice to all greyhound owners registered with the IGB and emphasise the requirement to fully comply with the standards expected.

- Progress the traceability provisions of the Greyhound Act 2019 though the establishing of a working group with the Irish Coursing Club (as keeper of the Stud Book) and industry representatives to devise a traceability model and a draft of the proposed statutory regulations.

- Establish a confidential Freephone line to enable reports of welfare breaches to be reported to the IGB for investigation by relevant agencies.

The Board has instructed that the Prime Time programme be reviewed in depth by the executive of the IGB to identify any actions that require to be followed up by the IGB. The Board will be seeking that RTE provides the IGB with all documented evidence gathered while researching the programme so that any breaches of the law can be pursued. The Board has also committed its full cooperation to other agencies and will provide whatever assistance is necessary in relation to any prosecutions.

The Board has also asked that an overall costed five year plan for the ‘care of the greyhound’ by devised for consideration by the National Greyhound Consultative Forum and for approval by the Board in the current year.

Chairman of the Irish Greyhound Board, Frank Nyhan, commented: “The actions evident by an irresponsible minority within the greyhound industry have no place in this sport and will not be tolerated. The IGB will continue to work with all agencies to ensure that such illegal activity is rooted out and those responsible are subject to prosecution for breaches of the law. Now that the Greyhound Racing Act 2019 has been finalised it is the Board’s clear intent to continue on its programme of further regulation within the sector.”



28th June, 2019”

Why did it take until 2019 when these issues have been highlighted for years?

Why did it take RTE to get them to finally start talking about these great changes they are thinking of making?

Too Little.
Too Late.