RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

ILoveYourVibes

gozunda wrote: »

Thing is I knew of people in this area who keep greyhounds and in my experience those animals are incredibly well looked after. Mostly it's an older age group and their passion and only interest is their dogs. In one case an older man who never married and his greyhounds are everything to him and they eat better than he does. And that is one of the issues of that programme and much of the kneejerk reaction to it tbh. The program generalises and everyone gets tarred with the same brush and oh look they eat dogs in China. Yes they do. But conflating the idea that greyhounds are sent out there specifically to be eaten is bs at best. Then there are people practically getting off that the report exists. From what Ive read there are big problems with some breeders and illegal coursing is a huge issue. However the fact is the findings of the report used in the programme are disputed and for that it was never released. Now theres some making hay out of that and it's all a conspiracy. Coupled with the ban everything brigade and suddenly it's armegedon...

You just don't know them very well.

6000k dogs per year means most trainers are doing this.

Think about it it would take 600 trainers to dump 10 dogs a year for these numbers.

Dogs are not like horses , horses are very expensive to keep sometimes people genuinely have to give them up because they risk bankruptcy due to a horse.
Dogs on the other hand just cost feed until you find a home. Or the small fee for a rescue.
Yet there are 15 k dogs (all breeds) slaughtered each year opposed to 7k (all breeds)horses.
Think about it.

What you are saying doesn't make sense.

Logic dictates it is widespread. It would be naive to think otherwise.

It must be something like 2.5k race horses vrs 6k greyhounds. The racing industry is way bigger though and has way bigger overheads to meet. Plus they are slaughtered and treated WAY WAY better than this and with no cruelty.

The dog industry has to be rife with it just for the numbers.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

You claim to look after strays & have no iron in the Greyhound racing fire but you think it's perfectly acceptable to kill healthy Greyhounds.

Not reading the comments again methinks. Nope. I often pick up the mess after they are dumped. No interest whatsoever in greyhounds. But I know some locals who do. But dont like bull**** and I believe as with all dogs humane euthanasia is sometimes necessary and happens for a variety of reasons.

jackboy

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Plus they are slaughtered and treated WAY WAY better than this and with no cruelty.

You have some good points but this part is not true. The same cruelty exists whether you are talking about greyhounds, horses, cattle or chickens. As greyhounds are for entertainment rather than food, I can understand why the standards should be higher.

gozunda

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You just don't know them very well. 6000k dogs per year means most trainers are doing this.
Think about it it would take 600 trainers to dump 10 dogs a year for these numbers.
Dogs are not like horses , horses are very expensive to keep sometimes people genuinely have to give them up because they risk bankruptcy due to a horse.
Dogs on the other hand just cost feed until you find a home. Or the small fee for a rescue.
Yet there are 15 k dogs (all breeds) slaughtered each year opposed to 7k (all breeds)horses.
Think about it. What you are saying doesn't make sense.Logic dictates it is widespread. It would be naive to think otherwise.
It must be something like 2.5k race horses vrs 6k greyhounds. The racing industry is way bigger though and has way bigger overheads to meet. Plus they are slaughtered and treated WAY WAY better than this and with no cruelty.
The dog industry has to be rife with it just for the numbers.

I think I do. I believe what I see with my own eyes. No I honestly do not think its "most trainers" - plus we still don't know whats happening with these animsls- are they exported? Are they euthanized or killed? Or? The report the program detailed is disputed and has already been detailed in this thread. Good greyhounds are not cheap to keep. Especially greyhounds kept for racing. Again this is what I've seen with my own eyes. The guys I knew locally treat their animals very well - in one case in better conditions than the owner.

I am hoping to see a full and proper in investigation out of this tbh.

gozunda

DubInMeath wrote: »

I don't think there is actually, but there is reluctance to discuss 6,000 unaccounted for greyhounds, given another poster claimed that they were not euthanized, simply unaccounted for.
Any of the strays that your finding, I assume that your bringing them to your local vet, or dog warden, or reporting sighting them to your local dog warden for them to locate and bring to the pound. If keeping them also reporting them to your local garda and dog warden as legally required.

Either way their accounted for, strays shot by farmers for attacking sheep and any other livestock are also recorded when reported to the local dog warden.

The thing is as it stands the report findings are being disputed and thsts a fact atm. As I said above hope to see a proper investigation out of this tbh.

As for the bolded bit - they may or any not end up being accounted for. Depends where they are dumped or if they are being killed and disposed of. I have found dead animals as well - especially near the forestry area. But even that depends on someone finding them tbh. I have the local warden on speed dial.

Oasis1974

Greyhounds aren't dogs in the real sense there small horse's. And you can't go down the road walking a ****in horse can ya?

Grueller

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How many of you have actually seen an Irish Hare running wild in Ireland?

It’s quite a sight and I’ve only seen it 3 times in my lifetime and it was so special every time.

Every day on my farm. I have a thriving population of them.

ILoveYourVibes

jackboy wrote: »

You have some good points but this part is not true. The same cruelty exists whether you are talking about greyhounds, horses, cattle or chickens. As greyhounds are for entertainment rather than food, I can understand why the standards should be higher.

It is true. A knackery and an abattoir are very different.

Horses don't go to knackeries in general. They go to abattoirs they are slaughtered like cows to be eaten in france poland etc.

The licensing of knackeries is different. Plus they are much much less experienced in dealing with the needs of animals.

Whereas abattoirs deal with farmers and are often farmers. They are world's apart.

The whole idea was to make horses viable as a food source at the end of the line because they have some value.


Think about it you can't eat or get meat from a half starved horses.

They have to be fit for human consumption.

Those 7k horses per year are going to an abattoir for export . They need to be kept fit for human consumption.

Plus they have to have the same laws for them as cattle etc.

What you saw in that documentary ..it's a whole other world.

An Irish farmer would never dream of letting that happen to their animals.

jackboy

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Whereas abattoirs deal with farmers and are often farmers. They are world's apart.

Sounds like RTÉ need to do an expose on abattoirs. Appalling places with widespread cruelty. The dogs in the street know this. They are also subject to joke inspections.

ILoveYourVibes

Oasis1974 wrote: »

Greyhounds aren't dogs in the real sense there small horse's. And you can't go down the road walking a ****in horse can ya?

I've walked plenty of them and yes you can. It's only if you walk more than one that you need a muzzle. And you can call them back etc they will not just run off usually.

If i am being totally honest. They do react to their senses. If they see everything if there is a bird etc you can tell they are looking.

I've never had one run off though.

Secondly you can walk race horses. I've ridden a few ex race horses. And i don't like fruitcake horses!

When YOU see them on race day they are usually fresh or hot. Meaning straight out of a stall and ready to go. Not straight out of the field.

They also give them really high energy feeds making them buzzy. Also race horses tend to be younger.

They are like kids fed on sugar on rainy monday.

A couple of years later and older different feed and they are much more sensible.

And its more down to the horse itself and their personality.

I have a friend who had an ex race horse who was the epitome of the 'bombproof horse' he could have let beginners on him. He was the best horse he ever had. He was fittingly named comrade

It's the temperament of the individual horse. I know dressage warmblood horses that are mental.

It's the TRAINING more than anything. And racehorses can be beautifully retrained.

Thought i would add this. Meet george

ILoveYourVibes

jackboy wrote: »

Sounds like RTÉ need to do an expose on abattoirs. Appalling places with widespread cruelty. The dogs in the street know this. They are also subject to joke inspections.

Go ahead. You won't find the same environment.

But I mean having things in the open is better. It makes people feel more confident.

jackboy

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Go ahead. You won't find the same environment.

Yep different environment. Just as much cruelty though. At least according to plenty of people who have worked there.

ILoveYourVibes

jackboy wrote: »

Yep different environment. Just as much cruelty though. At least according to plenty of people who have worked there.

I don't find you credible. But go head have RTE do an expose. I am fairly confident.

ILoveYourVibes

Grueller wrote: »

Every day on my farm. I have a thriving population of them.

I understand they can be pests.

Also the planting of any crop usually kills a lot of them.

So no matter what you eat you are contributing to it. I am a veggie but I am not so high and mighty about it.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

The thing is as it stands the report findings are being disputed and thsts a fact atm. As I said above hope to see a proper investigation out of this tbh.

As for the bolded bit - they may or any not end up being accounted for. Depends where they are dumped or if they are being killed and disposed of. I have found dead animals as well - especially near the forestry area. But even that depends on someone finding them tbh. I have the local warden on speed dial.

If you give the warden a call they will collect the dead dogs. They recorded them also in their figures.

Bannasidhe

This is how to be pro-active:

A dog rescue based in Laois contacted the knackery featured in the RTE programme, the knackery have agreed they will no longer accept dogs on their premises and anyone who contacts them to kill a dog will be given the contact details of this rescue ( I am not naming either the knackery or the rescue only because I am not sure if it is allowed - maybe a mod could clarify). All the owner has to do is surrender the dog(s) to the rescue. That's it. They can even keep the collar and lead as everything the dogs need will be provided.


Already greyhounds are being surrendered to rescues by the genuine greyhound owners. 2 came into another rescue (this one specialises in sighthounds) on Thursday having retired from racing, their owner was so upset by what he saw on RTE that he is quitting greyhound racing and will not be getting any more dogs.

While the IGB scrambles to put a spin on things and issue press releases animal welfare activists are again working quickly for the benefit of the dogs. The IGB should be working with the rescues, a few quid sent would be great but even if they made owners aware of local, registered, rescues it would be a start. Let greyhound owners know they don't need to kill the dogs - rescues will take them and find them homes. They already are...

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

This is how to be pro-active:

A dog rescue based in Laois contacted the knackery featured in the RTE programme, the knackery have agreed they will no longer accept dogs on their premises and anyone who contacts them to kill a dog will be given the contact details of this rescue ( I am not naming either the knackery or the rescue only because I am not sure if it is allowed - maybe a mod could clarify). All the owner has to do is surrender the dog(s) to the rescue. That's it. They can even keep the collar and lead as everything the dogs need will be provided.


Already greyhounds are being surrendered to rescues by the genuine greyhound owners. 2 came into another rescue (this one specialises in sighthounds) on Thursday having retired from racing, their owner was so upset by what he saw on RTE that he is quitting greyhound racing and will not be getting any more dogs.

While the IGB scrambles to put a spin on things and issue press releases animal welfare activists are again working quickly for the benefit of the dogs. The IGB should be working with the rescues, a few quid sent would be great but even if they made owners aware of local, registered, rescues it would be a start. Let greyhound owners know they don't need to kill the dogs - rescues will take them and find them homes. They already are...

Good pro active action on behalf of the rescue, but the yard shouldn't legally have been accepting dogs in the first place.

The IGB already tried the spin by pointing out their rehoming support scheme, what ever your thoughts on it, their members were aware that they can have their dogs rehomed. The thing is that you have certain owners refusing to allow their dogs be rehomed.

Bannasidhe

DubInMeath wrote: »

Good pro active action on behalf of the rescue, but the yard shouldn't legally have been accepting dogs in the first place.

The IGB already tried the spin by pointing out their rehoming support scheme, what ever your thoughts on it, their members were aware that they can have their dogs rehomed. The thing is that you have certain owners refusing to allow their dogs be rehomed.

No, they shouldn't have. But they were. Being pro-active the Rescue in question spoke directly to them and provided them with a way to try and make some small amends. That is what has to be done for the dogs sake.

As for the IGB rehoming scheme :rolleyes:

In the short term, the Board has immediately approved the following range of measures:

* Introduction of a greyhound injury support scheme to provide financial assistance to aid injured greyhounds to continue with a healthy life.

* Extending and increasing support under the IGB scheme for foster care of greyhounds to identify new foster homes within Ireland for greyhounds.

* Revision, in conjunction with the International Greyhound Welfare Forum, of the Code of Practice on the Care and Welfare of the Greyhound to address retirement and transportation of greyhounds.

* Financially incentivise the rehoming of greyhounds in Ireland through additional supports though the Irish Retired Greyhound Trust (which assisted in the rehoming of 1,021 greyhounds last year).

https://igb.ie/talking-dogs/irish-greyhound-board-statement-28th-june-2019/

They suddenly can approve 'measures' to be introduced. This all should have been done years ago. The best I can say it's a start but they are waaaay behind compared to what even small rescues with little funding are already doing.

Rescues will move Heaven and Earth to find a space for a grey. They already pay the vet bills for the injured greys in their care, they already have the network of homechecked and approved foster homes. They visit the pounds and get those greys whose owners haven't demanded they be killed out.

They don't 'assist' in re-homing. They take the problem off the owner's hands by assuming full legal responsibility. That's the key difference.
Many owner's want the dog gone NOW. Dog isn't going to bring money in= dog becomes a liability = get rid of dog immediately. They don't want to put their name on a list or be 'assisted'. They aren't interested in being given financial support towards a vet bill - they don't want any vet bill at all.

Rescues offer them all of that. Hand the dog over and someone else does all the work and pays all the bills. The IGB could have easily decided that they would support these rescues and say to the owners - don't kill the dog -these people will take it off your hands for free. But they didn't.

Rescues will work with the IGB - they may not like the organisation but if it saves dogs they will do it - but the IGB won't meet them halfway. It would be bad PR for them to admit they are outsourcing their industry problems to these charities when in reality these charities have been cleaning up their mess for years.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No, they shouldn't have. But they were. Being pro-active the Rescue in question spoke directly to them and provided them with a way to try and make some small amends. That is what has to be done for the dogs sake.

As for the IGB rehoming scheme :rolleyes:

https://igb.ie/talking-dogs/irish-greyhound-board-statement-28th-june-2019/

They suddenly can approve 'measures' to be introduced. This all should have been done years ago. The best I can say it's a start but they are waaaay behind compared to what even small rescues with little funding are already doing.

Rescues will move Heaven and Earth to find a space for a grey. They already pay the vet bills for the injured greys in their care, they already have the network of homechecked and approved foster homes. They visit the pounds and get those grey whose owners haven't demanded they be killed out.

They don't 'assist' in re-homing. They take the problem off the owner's hands by assuming full legal responsibility. That's the key difference.
Many owner's want the dog gone NOW. Dog isn't going to bring money in= dog becomes a liability = get rid of dog immediately. They don't want to put their name on a list or be 'assisted'. They aren't interested in being given financial support towards a vet bill - they don't want any vet bill at all.

Rescues offer them all of that. Hand the dog over and someone else does all the work and pays all the bills. The IGB could have easily decided that they would support these rescues and say to the owners - don't kill the dog -these people will take it off your hands for free. But they didn't.

Rescues will work with the IGB - they may not like the organisation but if it saves dogs they will do it - but the IGB won't meet them halfway. It would be bad PR for them to admit we are outsourcing our industry problems to these charities when in reality these charities have been cleaning up their mess for years.

Your correct in stating what work some of the animal welfare groups have been doing, my wife has been involved with a few over the years, I was talking more of the situation where an owner surrenders their dog to the pound and refusing to allow the dog be rehomed .

Discodog

AFAIK the IGB give a paltry €50 per dog which isn't going to pay for much care.
And, I have been told, you have to agree to not criticise the industry & therefore become part of the PR spin.

It feels like the IGB are dumping the dog especially as euthanasia, by a Vet, would be at least €50.

Bannasidhe

DubInMeath wrote: »

I was talking more of the situation where an owner surrenders their dog to the pound and refusing to allow the dog be rehomed .

IMHO those people are just complete asshats.
Absolutely no need for that.
It's an issue that could be easily sorted with the introduction of legislation saying that owners who surrender dogs to the pounds have given up all legal ownership and therefore cannot dictate what happens to the dogs afterwards.

Of course, that would mean the spotlight is shun on what happens in Irish pounds...

Some are amazing and go above and beyond to help the dogs, advertise them, re-home them, directly contact rescues for assistance. Other's not so much. It depends on who has the contract and the level of will within the local authority to see that they are run for the benefit of the dogs.

Due to the expansion of Cork City's boundaries I am now within the city limits - It's mad that my first thought was relief that if one of my (microchipped & licenced) dogs somehow got out (of my Fort Knox backgarden ) the local pound is now CSPCA and not the County Pound. I could just ruck up to the CSPCA and look for myself. Can't even find out exactly where the nearest county pound is located... and believe me, I have tried. :mad:

Discodog

DubInMeath wrote: »

Your correct in stating what work some of the animal welfare groups have been doing, my wife has been involved with a few over the years, I was talking more of the situation where an owner surrenders their dog to the pound and refusing to allow the dog be rehomed .

The ISPCA need to challenge this in Court as it flies in the face of the Animal Welfare Act.

Igotadose

Seems like the limited threat of people boycotting IGB sponsors due to the documentary have caused the IGB to stir up a little bit.

By far not enough, far too late. And as always with regulations, they can be enforced, or not. And the enforcements are miniscule - dog illegally killed, what, pay a fine? Lose your license?

Nothing I've seen from the IGB has changed my thinking about banning the industry; I'm liking the idea of first ending the export of live greyhounds to anywhere. That'll reduce the breeding overnight and drive out those that breed-for-sell. They can still have their depressing racetracks and feed their gambling addicts within Ireland. They can still accept overseas bets. But they can't overbreed and "cull" (slaughter) the unprofitable dogs anymore.

Give it about 5 years. If there's still a greyhound racing industry after that, I'd be surprised.

Bannasidhe

Igotadose wrote: »

Seems like the limited threat of people boycotting IGB sponsors due to the documentary have caused the IGB to stir up a little bit.

By far not enough, far too late. And as always with regulations, they can be enforced, or not. And the enforcements are miniscule - dog illegally killed, what, pay a fine? Lose your license?

Nothing I've seen from the IGB has changed my thinking about banning the industry; I'm liking the idea of first ending the export of live greyhounds to anywhere. That'll reduce the breeding overnight and drive out those that breed-for-sell. They can still have their depressing racetracks and feed their gambling addicts within Ireland. They can still accept overseas bets. But they can't overbreed and "cull" (slaughter) the unprofitable dogs anymore.

Give it about 5 years. If there's still a greyhound racing industry after that, I'd be surprised.

I was at the protest at Curraheen in Cork last night. Over 220 people there. Judging by the number of cars that passed to go into the Stadium I'd say we out numbered the punters inside.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

The ISPCA need to challenge this in Court as it flies in the face of the Animal Welfare Act.

It might but as the legal owner they can decide the fate of their animals.

Have mixed feelings on the ispca given comments made around new years.

The different spca associations are not always affiliated with them and don't want to be for various reasons.

Discodog

Igotadose wrote: »

Seems like the limited threat of people boycotting IGB sponsors due to the documentary have caused the IGB to stir up a little bit.

By far not enough, far too late. And as always with regulations, they can be enforced, or not. And the enforcements are miniscule - dog illegally killed, what, pay a fine? Lose your license?

Nothing I've seen from the IGB has changed my thinking about banning the industry; I'm liking the idea of first ending the export of live greyhounds to anywhere. That'll reduce the breeding overnight and drive out those that breed-for-sell. They can still have their depressing racetracks and feed their gambling addicts within Ireland. They can still accept overseas bets. But they can't overbreed and "cull" (slaughter) the unprofitable dogs anymore.

Give it about 5 years. If there's still a greyhound racing industry after that, I'd be surprised.

They will still be allowed to travel to race especially to the UK. I just can't see the IGB having inspectors at ports - it would cost a fortune. You have to have a system where every puppy is chipped & a document issued by the Vet. Then the owner can be inspected or ordered to produce the dog for inspection at any time.

Of course this won't work because the owners won't accept it, the IGB won't enforce it, & there won't be any meaningful penalties. Any system that accurately monitors the number of puppies will reveal the huge overproduction.

There is no way to produce enough racing dogs without producing thousands of unwanted pups.

Blueshoe

This will all be forgotten about just like everything else once the next outrage is discovered.

We all know it

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

IMHO those people are just complete asshats.
Absolutely no need for that.
It's an issue that could be easily sorted with the introduction of legislation saying that owners who surrender dogs to the pounds have given up all legal ownership and therefore cannot dictate what happens to the dogs afterwards.

Of course, that would mean the spotlight is shun on what happens in Irish pounds...

Some are amazing and go above and beyond to help the dogs, advertise them, re-home them, directly contact rescues for assistance. Other's not so much. It depends on who has the contract and the level of will within the local authority to see that they are run for the benefit of the dogs.

Due to the expansion of Cork City's boundaries I am now within the city limits - It's mad that my first thought was relief that if one of my (microchipped & licenced) dogs somehow got out (of my Fort Knox backgarden ) the local pound is now CSPCA and not the County Pound. I could just ruck up to the CSPCA and look for myself. Can't even find out exactly where the nearest county pound is located... and believe me, I have tried. :mad:

I would have said the opposite here on the east coast, especially the north east.

The council run pounds have people bringing them dogs from different counties because the outsourced pounds have a bad reputation and deservedly so.

strandroad

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I was at the protest at Curraheen in Cork last night. Over 220 people there. Judging by the number of cars that passed to go into the Stadium I'd say we out numbered the punters inside.

I saw a post shared about a protest in Mullingar, good sized protest on both sides of the road with dogs placards and chanting, and apparently a busload of punters arriving to the stadium turned around and left upon seeing that, to a major cheer from the crowd.

Barry's Tea is getting absolutely hammered on Facebook, it's very interesting to see. They haven't addressed the issue openly, but their promo posts have hundreds of protest comments on them and when you click on the profiles it's not hipsters or hippies posting, it's your Irish mammy demographics switching to Lyons en masse. Twitter, Instagram are the same. Wondering how many emails they received.

Discodog

DubInMeath wrote: »

It might but as the legal owner they can decide the fate of their animals.

Have mixed feelings on the ispca given comments made around new years.

The different spca associations are not always affiliated with them and don't want to be for various reasons.

I think this needs to change.

The ISPCA are the National organisation. The conflict between the ISPCA & SPCA's is a major cause of animal welfare problems here. There is no focus unlike with the RSPCA in the UK.