RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

jackboy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That's some surveillance systems they have that they can monitor every field 24/7.

You make it all sound so nice. Illegal hunters asked to leave so they say ok.
I find that hard to believe tbh.

There are other resources - they are chronically underfunded.

Well obviously it is not a perfect system but works a lot of the time. Local knowledge, similar to neighborhood watch.

A lot of the illegal hunters are armed so care must be taken. I have never heard of anyone being shot in these confrontations. I have heard of landowners been assaulted after approaching such hunters. So, it’s all about safety in numbers. Impossible to continue a hunt with a lot of people milling around. Easier to just leave and go somewhere else.

I can understand your skepticism but it happens.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Next you will be claiming the rescues 'set-up' the photos,

The fact remains that some greyhound owners goto a great deal of trouble to destroy not just the dogs - but any way the dogs can be identified.

That is 100% down to the owners. Rescue's are left to pick up the pieces on a shoe string budget. And yes- they do highlight what is going on - and then they highlight the same dogs in good homes where they are loved pets.

You are ignoring the simple fact that tattoos aren’t the only way to identify a greyhound. Microchipping and DNA testing can identify the dogs too. Rescues get grants from both IGB and the government.

gozunda

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That's some surveillance systems they have that they can monitor every field 24/7. You make it all sound so nice. Illegal hunters asked to leave so they say ok.I find that hard to believe tbh. There are other resources - they are chronically underfunded.

Get real. Land owners are vigilant. It is their interest to be so. Illegal hunters get short shift in my experience. Good relations with local Gardai help this. And this is why rural areas seek that Gardai resources are maintained. You can be as disparaging as you like. The fact is that many shooting and coursing clubs look after local areas and wildlife in conjunction with landowners. You could say this is for selfish purposes - maybe so but it also ensures that breeding populations are maintained but overpopulation is prevented. No legal sporting activity is interested in having those species wiped out. The same can't be said for illegal activities who dont care what they do.

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

You are ignoring the simple fact that tattoos aren’t the only way to identify a greyhound. Microchipping and DNA testing can identify the dogs too. Rescues get grants from both IGB and the government.

And you are ignoring that there is proof of the lengths some owners go to to ensure dogs are not identified.

Most rescues won't accept IGB grants as they contain a gag
clause.
The total amount of grants from government to all the rescues that apply (and many won't as there are T&C's many don't agree with..) for 2017/18 was €2,751,000. https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/animalhealthwelfare/animalwelfare/exgratiafunding/Listof2018awardsToWelfareOrgs020119.pdf

That's is.
Less than €3m between them all. Dogs, cats, donkeys, horses, wildlife.

Bannasidhe

gozunda wrote: »

Get real. Land owners are vigilant. It is their interest to be so. Illegal hunters get short shift in my experience. Good relations with local Gardai help this. And this is why rural areas seek that Gardai resources are maintained. You can be as disparaging as you like. The fact is that many shooting and coursing clubs look after local areas and wildlife in conjunction with landowners. You could say this is for selfish purposes - maybe so but it also ensures that breeding populations are maintained but overpopulation is prevented. No legal sporting activity is interested in having those species wiped out. The same can't be said for illegal activities who dont care what they do.

Some might be vigilant. Others not so much.

My experience is of having to constantly phone a landowner in North Cork to tell him people were illegally hunting on his land again. Yes, he did allow hunting to licenced groups.
He couldn't see them from his house.
I could.

And after he had stopped calling them every name under the sun I would say phone the guards. Then I would phone the guards.

gozunda

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Some might be vigilant. Others not so much.My experience is of having to constantly phone a landowner in North Cork to tell him people were illegally hunting on his land again. Yes, he did allow hunting to licenced groups.He couldn't see them from his house.I could. And after he had stopped calling them every name under the sun I would say phone the guards. Then I would phone the guards.

So that's your experience. In this area landowners tend to communicate especially when it comes to security, stolen machinery, stock and trespass and illegal hunting. No one wants gangs of unknown people on their lands imo. Does it sometime happen - yes it can - but it does not mean that the majority of landowners and local groups dont do what they can. There are always exceptions but do not judge others because of that.

whisky_galore

gozunda wrote: »

So that's your experience. In this area landowners tend to communicate especially when it comes to security, stolen machinery, stock and trespass and illegal hunting. No one wants gangs of unknown people on their lands imo. Does it sometime happen - yes it can - but it does not mean that the majority of landowners and local groups dont do what they can. There are always exceptions but do not judge others because of that.

In my experience they just enter and traipse all over without a by your leave.
ONE and only one ever had the manners to approach for permission.

whisky_galore

Pauliedragon wrote: »

But there is in the UAE who sponsers the golf. Check out their human rights record.

I doubt any amount of Facebook campaigns and protests could improve that situation unlike the (relatively) easy win of dissuading sponsors from funding the greyhound industry in aftermath of RTEs broadcast.

gozunda

whisky_galore wrote: »

In my experience they just enter and traipse all over without a by your leave.
ONE and only one ever had the manners to approach for permission.

The illegal ones dont ask for sure.

whisky_galore

gozunda wrote: »

The illegal ones dont ask for sure.

Whichever.

donkeykong5

mikeym wrote: »

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Spoke to a couple of lads today saying they won't be drinking Barry's tea anymore out of protest yet off to the golf they go which is sponsored by a government which treats humans a million times worse than the greyhounds. A lot of this is bandwagon keyboard nonsense.

Its ok to drink Barrys tea they pulled the plug on the greyhound sponsorship.

The last sponsored race by barrys piss tea was 9pm race on Saturday 22nd June 2019. People have been pleading with them for years to stop the sponsorship. Emails. Phone calls. All ignored. So fair play to rte investigates programme. You did in a few hours what mere animal lovers have been trying to do for years.

gozunda

donkeykong5 wrote: »

The last sponsored race by barrys piss tea was 9pm race on Saturday 22nd June 2019. People have been pleading with them for years to stop the sponsorship. Emails. Phone calls. All ignored. So fair play to rte investigates programme. You did in a few hours what mere animal lovers have been trying to do for years.

What people? Emails? Phone calls? How would anyone know what communications Barry's were receiving? Someone would gave to work there or something to know that tbh.

whisky_galore

gozunda wrote: »

What people? Emails? Phone calls? How would anyone know what communications Barry's were receiving? Do you work there perhaps?

They had been working hard at removing posts from their Facebook until the trickle turned into a full on flood when they were away from the office over the weekend, it couldn't be ignored anymore. Seemed to be mostly the mammies (who get the shopping after all), not the usual activist type.
Anyway, happy enough with the result, people realising a night at the dogs wasn't a harmless activity, a bit of a laugh, anymore. Hopefully other sponsors follow suit and the govt might turn off the tap as well in time.

gozunda

whisky_galore wrote: »

They had been working hard at removing posts from their Facebook until the trickle turned into a full on flood when they were away from the office over the weekend, it couldn't be ignored anymore. Seemed to be mostly the mammies (who get the shopping after all), not the usual activist type.
Anyway, happy enough with the result, people realising a night at the dogs wasn't a harmless activity, a bit of a laugh, anymore. Hopefully other sponsors follow suit and the govt might turn off the tap as well in time.

From what I saw on the fb page only the most offensive comments were being removed. Even the active fb users were commenting that some comments were removed - plenty were left up as far as I could see. Yeah we heard about 'de mammies" tbh. That as may be otherwise - that's not what was asked tbh. PP claimed Barrys were receiving 'phonecalls emails letters from people for years' (plural). Now unless someone has some type of privileged information - I'm calling that out as highly dubious. How would anyone know that type of information? Btw I dont mean personal details either - just how the heck that claim could be possible?

And no I dont agree shuting down greyhound racing is going to be the best solution. I have already detailed that tbh.

Good to see that some aren’t giving in to the bullies. Well Done Red Mills. https://www.thecork.ie/2019/07/04/connollys-red-mills-announced-as-sponsors-of-corks-richest-greyhound-race-for-three-year-period/

whisky_galore

whisky_galore wrote: »

In my experience they just enter and traipse all over without a by your leave.
ONE and only one ever had the manners to approach for permission.

Coursing Club members may only enter land with the permission of the landowner as per license conditions.

Anyone else doing so should be reported to the Gardai

Igotadose

Deleted User wrote: »

Coursing Club members may only enter land with the permission of the landowner as per license conditions.

Anyone else doing so should be reported to the Gardai

if the practice were ended, everyone's life owning land becomes much simpler. See someone trespassing? Call the guards.

Deferring to some fanciful 'enforcement' is doomed to fail. Whether the guards priortize this problem and resource it appropriately is secondary; it's the recommended legal solution and well understood by all parties. See a problem, call the guards. Relying on good behavior by strangers isn't a strategy, if it were, we wouldn't need the guards, or police, or laws or...

Igotadose

Igotadose wrote: »

if the practice were ended, everyone's life owning land becomes much simpler. See someone trespassing? Call the guards.

Deferring to some fanciful 'enforcement' is doomed to fail. Whether the guards priortize this problem and resource it appropriately is secondary; it's the recommended legal solution and well understood by all parties. See a problem, call the guards. Relying on good behavior by strangers isn't a strategy, if it were, we wouldn't need the guards, or police, or laws or...

Banning coursing won’t stop illegal hunting. Legal clubs don’t trespass.

xckjoo

I'm confused by (my reading) the argument that landowners are doing a great job of stopping illegal hunting now but wouldn't if all hunting was made illegal. How does that work? Why would banning it completely make it more difficult to enforce?

ILoveYourVibes

xckjoo wrote: »

I'm confused by (my reading) the argument that landowners are doing a great job of stopping illegal hunting now but wouldn't if all hunting was made illegal. How does that work? Why would banning it completely make it more difficult to enforce?

You couldn't ban it all completely. You have cull deer.

You have to cull foxes. You have to cull rabbits.

I mean even if the population was under control (which it isn't) you have diseased animals that have to be put down etc. Sometimes in great numbers.

Its either traps or poison then. Shooting dear etc is still hunting.

Hunting is culling. That's its purpose when its done well.

xckjoo

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You couldn't ban it all completely. You have cull deer.

You have to cull foxes. You have to cull rabbits.

I mean even if the population was under control (which it isn't) you have diseased animals that have to be put down etc. Sometimes in great numbers.

Its either traps or poison then. Shooting dear etc is still hunting.

Hunting is culling. That's its purpose when its done well.

Fair enough. I'm not trying to start a discussion on the merits of hunting as a whole.

But that doesn't answer the question about how landowners would get worse at protecting their land if hunting/coursing/whatever was to be completely outlawed.

ILoveYourVibes

xckjoo wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm not trying to start a discussion on the merits of hunting as a whole.

But that doesn't answer the question about how landowners would get worse at protecting their land if hunting/coursing/whatever was to be completely outlawed.

How would they deal with rabbits etc? They would be less motivated to deal with illegal hunting because they would want it to go on.

Or at least that is the jist.

jackboy

xckjoo wrote: »

But that doesn't answer the question about how landowners would get worse at protecting their land if hunting/coursing/whatever was to be completely outlawed.

Its the coursing clubs that protect the preserved lands from the illegal hunters. If coursing is banned that all stops. The land owners of course protect their own land as best as they can but this is much less effective. I would never encourage a lone land owner to approach a group of armed illegal hunters.

Of course call the guards but as said before they don't have the resources to tackle this. I cant see them hiring thousands of new recruits for this task.

xckjoo

jackboy wrote: »

Its the coursing clubs that protect the preserved lands from the illegal hunters. If coursing is banned that all stops. The land owners of course protect their own land as best as they can but this is much less effective. I would never encourage a lone land owner to approach a group of armed illegal hunters.

Of course call the guards but as said before they don't have the resources to tackle this. I cant see them hiring thousands of new recruits for this task.

Ah that makes more sense. I thought the argument was about landowners in general. Ya I wouldn't imagine calling the guards would always be productive. They seem to be under-resourced for everything these days, but I guess that's a topic for another thread :pac:
Is there a lot of coursing clubs/land in Ireland? Had a look at the ICC site but couldn't spot an obvious summary. I dunno how to feel about coursing myself and haven't had any exposure to it. Probably not my cup of tea, but I can see how it could be run in a fairly humane manner if the rules are there and followed.

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

Ah that makes more sense. I thought the argument was about landowners in general. Ya I wouldn't imagine calling the guards would always be productive. They seem to be under-resourced for everything these days, but I guess that's a topic for another thread :pac:
Is there a lot of coursing clubs/land in Ireland? Had a look at the ICC site but couldn't spot an obvious summary. I dunno how to feel about coursing myself and haven't had any exposure to it. Probably not my cup of tea, but I can see how it could be run in a fairly humane manner if the rules are there and followed.

This list will give you an idea. Each club is run by a committee of volunteers, overseen by the executive and control stewards.

https://irishcoursingclub.ie/fixtures/

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

Good to see that some aren’t giving in to the bullies. Well Done Red Mills. https://www.thecork.ie/2019/07/04/connollys-red-mills-announced-as-sponsors-of-corks-richest-greyhound-race-for-three-year-period/

Terrible move by Red Mills giving into the greyhound racer mob, they approve killing animals for entertainment.
Well pet owners (and there are hell of alot of us) including over half million adults who watched the Prime Time slaughter of the furry babies will move onto other brands for their foods.

gozunda

klaaaz wrote: »

Terrible move by Red Mills giving into the greyhound racer mob, they approve killing animals for entertainment.
Well pet owners (and there are hell of alot of us) including over half million adults who watched the Prime Time slaughter of the furry babies will move onto other brands for their foods.

Furry babies?????

AryaStark

InTheShadows wrote: »

Not watching but i know full well the type of scumbags that partake in this "sport". Cess pit of humanity type people.

A lot of people think this but when you watch the documentary you can see that some of the people supporting the coursing are respectable business people and people who would be described as a good community person.

More people need to recognise this and make it known that it is unacceptable.

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote: »

Terrible move by Red Mills giving into the greyhound racer mob, they approve killing animals for entertainment.
Well pet owners (and there are hell of alot of us) including over half million adults who watched the Prime Time slaughter of the furry babies will move onto other brands for their foods.

What animals are killed for entertainment?

I didn’t know that over half a million pet owners use Red Mills products.

AryaStark

fryup wrote: »

what else do you expect from a country that uses "Rhino Horn" as a aphrodisiac

We need to forget about what is happening in China and focus on what is happening here in Ireland.. it is shocking that Grey Hounds are classed as livestock and not dogs.. this allows them to be treated horribly.



The knackery shown on the show is disgusting and should be shut down. End of.. fines are not enough.

This industry has been dying slowly over the last few years and it is time to let it go.