RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

mikeym

We dont have to ban greyhound racing if the government withdraws funding of the IGB and let them function on there own.

Greyhounds are domesticated animals not livestock.

gozunda

Wheety wrote: »

You really love your straw man arguments, don't you?

Perhaps arguing the point rather that imagining silly put downs would be more constructive?

Cant? then no need to reply...

Wheety

gozunda wrote: »

Perhaps arguing the point rather that imagining silly put downs would be more constructive?

Really? You drop into the thread, throw in a straw man and then expect me to argue against it? Nah, you're alright. Classic diversion tactics again.

Igotadose

Did a bit of spelunking in the "powers report" on the economic impact of the greyhound industry, where the 300 million euro 'impact' comes from.

Here's where it comes from:
about 113 million on net salaries (gross estimates minus PRSI). "Estimating" 50% impact, that is, assume the individuals earning the salaries contribute 1.5 times their salaries as 'impact.' Not going to argue that, however, if greyhound racing's eliminated, unless you assume all these people cease to exist, the loss of $170million isn't meaningful - they'll presumably get work elsewhere, making the same impact through their new jobs, if not more. Power's data included a guestimate of average salary of 25,000 euros.

The other big number that leads to the '300 million impact' is 135 million per year on 'keeping the greyhound pipeline going.' Of that, the vast majority of it is around racing, preparing for racing, training, etc. That economic impact (presumably vet fees, and fees paid to tracks, organizations, etc.) would indeed drop off. A core of 'whelping and rearing to adulthood' based on the number of breedings is hard to get, buty maybe it's around 30 million per year. So, the net loss is racing-related fees for training, licensing, etc. Around 100 million

So, the 300 million number, is more like 100 million. And of course this report was prepared at the request of the IGB so it will paint the industry in as favorable light as possible.

https://www.igb.ie/globalassets/power-report-2018/power-report---the-economic--financial-significance-of-the-irish-greyhound-industry---november-2017.pdf

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

Posts like this are what make me doubt that those in the greyhound industry have any interest in improving things and are only interested in playing the victim


I doubt Red Mills want your trophies.

There are very few bad people in the greyhound game, yet we’re all being painted the same. Personally, I don’t need improve anything regarding my treatment of my greyhounds. Nor do any of my many pals in the game.
Most of what was shown by RTE was ancient history. Stories of poor doggies with their ears cut off, forgetting microchipping and DNA. Dogs being ill treated in other countries, to where we cannot send dogs because no carrier would take them. But, why let facts get in the way of a sob story.
One poster actually claimed that the grant money only covered wages!!!
Yes, killing dogs by knackeries is wrong.
Yes, IGB could and should be doing more to find homes.
Yes, I will continue my involvement in the game.

Allinall

gozunda wrote: »

So the thing is to punish everyone then including the guys who look after their dogs well?

.

Bit dramatic there.

No one's being, or will be punished.

jackboy

Igotadose wrote: »

The ecology of Australia is massively different than Ireland. Might as well compare it with Mars. Coursing won't have appreciable impact in Ireland on the hare population which is not well understood (it's hard to count wild hares) and varies wildly, apparently, year-on-year due to climate conditions. Not due to coursing, which is just a bloodsport for dilettantes.

True enough about Australia. However, coursing does have a positive impact on hare populations, distasteful and all that fact is for a lot of people.

gozunda

Allinall wrote: »

Bit dramatic there.
No one's being, or will be punished.

Well if as some seem to be looking for all legal greyhound activities to be shut down - then that is 'punishing' everyone. But yes those who engage in illegal activities should be imo. Just my opinion.

Allinall

gozunda wrote: »

Well if as soon seem to be looking for all legal greyhound activities to be shut down - then that is 'punishing' everyone. But yes those who engage in illegal activities should be imo. Just my opinion.

It's not punishing anyone.

Are people who what to take part in cock fighting being punished because it's illegal?

Are people who want to bare knuckle fight being punished because it's illegal?

Are people who want to fly aeroplanes but can't because they don't have a pilots licence being punished?

As I said, you're being over dramatic.

donkeykong5

gozunda wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Shame on redmills. Another cork company happy to sponser the cruel so called sport of greyhound racing.

Plenty of good ideas in this thread on improving how things are run. Screaming at sponsors not going to help that tbh.

I disagree. When the multimillionaires that own the companies realise that people are not buying their tea and pet food etc and it's going to hurt their extensive bank accounts .....then they take notice. Pity it has taken so long really. Have to give heads up to rte investigates programme. Well done guys.

gozunda

Allinall wrote: »

It's not punishing anyone. Are people who what to take part in cock fighting being punished because it's illegal?Are people who want to bare knuckle fight being punished because it's illegal?
Are people who want to fly aeroplanes but can't because they don't have a pilots licence being punished?As I said, you're being over dramatic.

Greyhound racing is legal

Barenuckle fighting is illegal - so is cockfighting - so is flying without a licence

If as some here are shouting for legal racing to be shut down then yes everyone is punished.

Eitherway you might wish to revisit your logic there. Yup but as you said you are being over dramatic indeed.

Think you may need to go and actually read the thread. But hey no worries.

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

There are very few bad people in the greyhound game, yet we’re all being painted the same. Personally, I don’t need improve anything regarding my treatment of my greyhounds. Nor do any of my many pals in the game.
Most of what was shown by RTE was ancient history. Stories of poor doggies with their ears cut off, forgetting microchipping and DNA. Dogs being ill treated in other countries, to where we cannot send dogs because no carrier would take them. But, why let facts get in the way of a sob story.
One poster actually claimed that the grant money only covered wages!!!
Yes, killing dogs by knackeries is wrong.
Yes, IGB could and should be doing more to find homes.
Yes, I will continue my involvement in the game.

But that doesn't coincide with my own experiences or that of other greyhound owners that have posted here. You're also making constant contradictory posts. It's ancient history but at the same time the new regulations will fix things. The knackeries are wrong but never mind because not everyone uses them. IGB should be doing more but they're not so never mind.

Go to any rescue centre and they'll show you greyhounds that have been saved from horrible conditions. Maybe these weren't part of the industry, I don't know. But if they aren't then we need posters to educating people about what's really going on and not just playing the victim any time someone brings up legitimate concerns over the welfare of the dogs.

Dunno what your point about grants and wages is.

Allinall

gozunda wrote: »

Greyhound racing is legal

Barenuckle fighting is illegal - so is cockfighting - so is flying without a licence

If as some here are shouting for legal racing to be shut down then yes everyone is punished.

Eitherway you might wish to revisit your logic there. Yup but as you said you are being over dramatic indeed.

Think you may go and actually read the thread. But hey no worries.

If legal racing is shut down, then it will become illegal and have the same status as those activities mentioned above.

Are any of the people in the examples above being punished? Answer is no.

The same answer would apply to anyone wanting to race greyhounds illegally.

No one will be punished. They just won't be able to race their greyhounds.

Muahahaha

I find it hard to accept that this is just a minority in the industry. When you see 15 of the 30 licensed knackeries were caught out saying they would put down greyhounds it says a lot. If 50% of all knackeries are illegally offering that service then it stands to reason that an awful lot of greyhound owners were using them. If it were one or two caught out of 30 you could say most of the industry is compliant but it is 15 out of 30 which points to a far greater malaise.

whisky_galore

jackboy wrote: »

True enough about Australia. However, coursing does have a positive impact on hare populations, distasteful and all that fact is for a lot of people.

However did the poor hares survive for thousands of years without humans around to save them by coursing?

gozunda

Allinall wrote: »

If legal racing is shut down, then it will become illegal and have the same status as those activities mentioned above.Are any of the people in the examples above being punished? Answer is no.
The same answer would apply to anyone wanting to race greyhounds illegally.
No one will be punished. They just won't be able to race their greyhounds.

Effort: 1
Logic: -10

Lol. You do know how a figure of speach actually works yeah?

Could be that type of thing might wash for humour somewhere. No bite here I'm afraid maybe try AH...

jackboy

whisky_galore wrote: »

However did the poor hares survive for thousands of years without humans around to save them by coursing?

Hunters have not been shooting hares for thousands of years.

purplesnack

jackboy wrote: »

Doesn't work. A fox has little chance of catching an adult rabbit. Also, rabbits can easily escape into burrows. If you want the eco system to be as nature intended then the wolf needs to be re-introduced to Ireland. The wolf will cull deer and foxes.

Unfortunately, if wolves were reintroduced to Ireland they wouldn't stand a chance - they would be hunted to extinction in this country for a second time. Humans create an imbalance by killing anything that is deemed 'vermin' and any chance of nature regulating itself is gone.

jackboy

purplesnack wrote: »

Unfortunately, if wolves were reintroduced to Ireland they wouldn't stand a chance - they would be hunted to extinction in this country for a second time. Humans create an imbalance by killing anything that is deemed 'vermin' and any chance of nature regulating itself is gone.

Yes, the Irish eco system is probably beyond repair which is why culls are necessary. Also, the massive introduction of foreign flora and fauna is continuing. The government have almost no interest in sorting this out. Even the Green Party are not making a serious effort.

Allinall

gozunda wrote: »

Effort: 1
Logic: -10

Lol. You do know how a figure of speach actually works yeah?

Could be that type of thing might wash for humour somewhere. No bite here I'm afraid maybe try AH...

Maybe outline what you meant by “punished”, if you’re now calling it a figure of speech.

It would have been easier for you to do that in the first place.

gozunda

purplesnack wrote: »

Unfortunately, if wolves were reintroduced to Ireland they wouldn't stand a chance - they would be hunted to extinction in this country for a second time. Humans create an imbalance by killing anything that is deemed 'vermin' and any chance of nature regulating itself is gone.

The thing is wildlife such as foxes and rabbits are doing very well here and are far from "hunted to extinction". Theres at least four fox covers within half a mile of me and I've seen cubs a plenty. Most countries have either eradicated or controlled species such as wolves. Humans now live where wildlife once roamed unhindered. We could pack up and leave them to it or we do what we have to do manage numbers without one species becoming a problem.

Bannasidhe

jackboy wrote: »

Hunters have not been shooting hares for thousands of years.

Shooting.
For thousands of years.

Gosh.

Thousands of years.
Shooting.

who knew.

jackboy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Shooting.
For thousands of years.

Gosh.

Thousands of years.
Shooting.

who knew.

I was sarcastically responding to a sarcastic post. I guess that means that you have sarcastically responded to a sarcastic post responding to a sarcastic post.

Bannasidhe

jackboy wrote: »

I was sarcastically responding to a sarcastic post. I guess that means that you have sarcastically responded to a sarcastic post responding to a sarcastic post.

How ironic.

anewme

some about turn by red mills. Coming out yesterday saying they were sponsoring it, like WHAT? And then today having to drop it.

Embarassing.

purplesnack

gozunda wrote: »

The thing is wildlife such as foxes and rabbits are doing very well here and are far from "hunted to extinction". Theres at least four fox covers within half a mile of me and I've seen cubs a plenty. Most countries have either eradicated or controlled species such as wolves. Humans now live where wildlife once roamed unhindered. We could pack up and leave them to it or we do what we have to do manage numbers without one species becoming a problem.

There is only one species that is a huge problem and with absolutely nothing to regulate it.

And you'll have to point out where I said foxes and rabbits were being hunted to extinction.

strandroad

anewme wrote: »

some about turn by red mills. Coming out yesterday saying they were sponsoring it, like WHAT? And then today having to drop it.

Embarassing.

I don't disagree but it's still better to change this way than the opposite. I'll take it.

Such arrangements are long in the making so it was agreed on before the expose, but yes they would come off better if they cancelled it before it was publicised. Note that it was IGB who was behind the sponsorship announcement; wondering if their purpose was to put Red Mills on the spot counting on them being too embarrassed to do a u-turn.

strandroad

Deleted User wrote: »

There are very few bad people in the greyhound game, yet we’re all being painted the same. Personally, I don’t need improve anything regarding my treatment of my greyhounds. Nor do any of my many pals in the game.
Most of what was shown by RTE was ancient history. Stories of poor doggies with their ears cut off, forgetting microchipping and DNA. Dogs being ill treated in other countries, to where we cannot send dogs because no carrier would take them. But, why let facts get in the way of a sob story.
One poster actually claimed that the grant money only covered wages!!!
Yes, killing dogs by knackeries is wrong.
Yes, IGB could and should be doing more to find homes.
Yes, I will continue my involvement in the game.

You might not be directly responsible but your kind of owners are exactly why the industry is crumbling: the decent or half decent ones allowed the completely corrupt ones to run the game. Your posts are full of "wasn't me" and "look the other way"; that's exactly how it developed into the disaster it is now exposed to be.

whisky_galore

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are very few bad people in the greyhound game, yet we’re all being painted the same. Personally, I don’t need improve anything regarding my treatment of my greyhounds. Nor do any of my many pals in the game.
Most of what was shown by RTE was ancient history. Stories of poor doggies with their ears cut off, forgetting microchipping and DNA. Dogs being ill treated in other countries, to where we cannot send dogs because no carrier would take them. But, why let facts get in the way of a sob story.
One poster actually claimed that the grant money only covered wages!!!
Yes, killing dogs by knackeries is wrong.
Yes, IGB could and should be doing more to find homes.
Yes, I will continue my involvement in the game.

Old news, surely the 'good people' got wind of it at the time or shortly afterwards?

Why didn't the decent majority call it out or report these 'bad people'?

whisky_galore

whisky_galore wrote: »

Old news, surely the 'good people' got wind of it at the time or shortly afterwards?

Why didn't the decent majority call it out or report these 'bad people'?

They have been doing. Unfortunately the IGB saw us as troublemakers.