RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

29-11-2021 9:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238152#Comment_118238152

One glaring falsehood is that Greyhound Racing Ireland, formerly Bord na gCon funds coursing!

The other is that funding for GRI comes from all taxes. It doesn’t. It comes from a levy on betting.

xckjoo · 29-11-2021 10:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237734#Comment_118237734

There's plenty of caring owners out there but also lots of people who only care about the money and treat the dogs like a commodity. My issue isn't so much with the racing as with the governing body allowing this kind of treatment to continue. You'll always get soulless chancers attracted to anything where money can be made. So far they don't seem to be showing any appetite for addressing it. It always feels like a "everything is fine now leave us alone" type response

29-11-2021 10:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237664#Comment_118237664

During your volunteering, were you aware of the grants rescues receive from the government or the GRI subsidised neutering? Funded from a percentage of all greyhounds winnings?

xckjoo · 29-11-2021 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238634#Comment_118238634

Rescues get almost nothing in funding. This was already covered in this thread but you're back again trying to pretend like the greyhound industry is just the poor misunderstood victim in all this. Subsidised neutering is a joke. The levy from gambling that funds the GRI would be far better spent on animal welfare and gambling addiction support.

It's people like yourself that make me think the industry can never be reformed and is rotten to the core. It's all about ye being the poor victims.

Igotadose · 29-11-2021 3:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239689#Comment_118239689

There's nothing respectable at all about greyhound racing. It glorifies gambling, which is pathetic in so many ways. Many of the high-level 'trainers' get caught doping and cheating, slapped on the wrist and back they come as soon as the media's passed them by. End the government support and it'll go away like it has in so many countries.

The dogs are overbred (far more than are needed for this 'sport') and disposed of. The RTE documentary features a dog's owner taking it to the knackers, having it shot and waiting for it to bleed out so he can get the collar. Wouldn't want to be out the cost of a collar, of course.

https://www.rte.ie/player/movie/rt%C3%A9-investigates-greyhounds-running-for-their-lives/104051751967

29-11-2021 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239689#Comment_118239689

Here is a list of grants to animal shelters. http://ms-test.ptools.net/en/news-room/releases/minister_mcconalogue_announces_record_funding_of_3_200_000_to_animal_welfare_organisations.html

What part of subsidised neutering do you find funny? Millions of Euro is spent by GRI every year on welfare, rehoming etc If my dogs details are not up to date in the traceability database, they cannot run.

xckjoo · 29-11-2021 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240562#Comment_118240562

Your link is broken so not sure what it's saying. Hopefully it includes a breakdown of where the money goes or it's not much use

I said it's a joke. Never said it was funny. The joke being that you're trying to paint token efforts by the GRI as proof that they've the dogs health at the top of their priority list and that everything is all good. These are all token efforts to tick boxes so they can say "See we're doing everything we can! But also there is no issue and never was one so leave us alone".

It's great that you look after your dog(s). You're not the kind of person we're complaining about. But you are enabling the scumbags by repeating the "everything is fine" mantra and not pushing the governing body to clean house.

Igotadose · 29-11-2021 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240838#Comment_118240838

It can't clean house. It's a victim of 'regulatory capture' like so many Irish institutions (here's looking at you, HSE.) If the people working for the institution have to clean it up, there's no incentive.

Oh, and the subsidy is now closer to $20m. Hadn't read the 2020 annual report, sad to see the "industry" needed more $$ to keep afloat.

The Nal · 29-11-2021 5:00pm

I love the "my greyhound is the king of the house" nonsense.

"What about his 8 brothers and sisters, where are they?"

"And the litter before that? 9 puppies and theres only 1 around?"

https://media.giphy.com/media/V2joiGW3kjbVEeMBHT/giphy.gif

xckjoo · 29-11-2021 5:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240858#Comment_118240858

Yet it's all those animal rescue people that are apparently making bank from government assistance. They hide it well that's all I'll say. Any of the ones I know of are constantly asking for basics like old bedding and the staff appear to be living on the poverty line. Most of them make massive sacrifices in their lives and do whatever they can to help any animal in need. Certain people trying to make it look like they're the ones getting massive amounts of money in order to take the spotlight off their own industry should be ashamed of themselves. Specially when their industry has contributed to the need for a lot of them to exist in the first place.

Discodog · 29-11-2021 6:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240983#Comment_118240983

This is the key to the whole issue & why there is no alternative to banning. You simply cannot produce enough potential race winners without breeding unwanted dogs.

29-11-2021 6:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118240838#Comment_118240838

Try this link. https://assets.gov.ie/139292/2dc481a0-23ec-46a9-b620-898e01706320.xlsx

I agree that there are bad eggs in every sport. Huge efforts (not token ones) are being made to weed them out and improve welfare and traceability.

I know that no matter what proof is provided that some minds are already made up and nothing I say will change this.

phonypony · 29-11-2021 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237734#Comment_118237734

"Cold evening but they all had plenty of layers and blankets". Of course they did, they aren't going to do much good racing from cold.

They are well looked after insofar as an investment is well looked after. That's all they are.

LawBoy2018 · 29-11-2021 6:38pm

My neighbour is the most caring greyhound owner/trainer you could meet, however he openly told me that he has shot several of his greyhounds after they've broken their legs while racing. He wouldn't even pay to have them euthanised. The industry as a whole needs to end.

Mysterypunter · 29-11-2021 6:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238152#Comment_118238152

I was working out there, I didn’t have a bet, that’s probably why none of the dogs died, 4 weeks ago a dog died after winning a race, that’s just unlucky

greyday · 29-11-2021 6:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241427#Comment_118241427

He must be some man to get the dog out of the track with a vet in attendance willing to put the dog to sleep if the injury is serious enough.

You can also get a grant from GRI for injuries sustained on the track to pay vets fees.

Maryanne has been very straight in her posts on this thread while some others just seem to be making things up or taking the RTE fiasco as factual when it was very wide of the mark.

For those that think people are into greyhounds for the money, you could not be further from the truth, about 5% of people involved make a profit, the rest are losing and dont expect to make money.

Every single sport has cheats and greyhounds are no different.

Just to add, Greyhound get injuries out exercising normally as much if not more than on the Track, same as horses, banning greyhound racing will certainly not stop greyhounds sustaining life ending injuries.

Discodog · 29-11-2021 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241501#Comment_118241501

Even a leg break isn't a life ending injury for a pet dog but it is for a Greyhound. The pet owner will do everything they can to get the dog treated. The greyhound owner will have his dog put down.

What part of the RTE program wasn't factual ?

jackboy · 29-11-2021 7:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241625#Comment_118241625

Ah now in fairness pet dogs in Ireland are treated appallingly, worse on average than racing greyhounds.

greyday · 29-11-2021 7:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241625#Comment_118241625

I won't laugh at your assertion as we can see from pounds that pet owners have their bad apples also.

Greyhounds love to run and a broken leg can result in the dog not being allowed off the lead for the rest of his life, vets will advise if the injury is bad enough to PTS or not, unfortunately some leg injuries can be horrific and dogs will be PTS in those circumstances.

Many greyhounds suffer leg injuries that end their racing careers but are kept by owners as pets once the injury will not require them to be kept on a lead for the rest of their lives.

The 6000 greyhounds unaccounted for, Greyhounds only being exported to UK as there are plenty of other Countries in Europe that import Irish greyhounds for racing, The VET stating EPO was widely used when there has only ever been one positive test for EPO in Ireland.

29-11-2021 7:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241625#Comment_118241625

A broken leg doesn’t mean the end for most dogs. A vet will decide what is the best for the dog.

What part of the RTE program wasn't factual ?

The number of dogs “Disappeared” every year. They hadn’t included coursing greyhounds, ones sold to UK, ones kept as pets by families and those who may have died of natural causes.

Dogs routinely having their ears mutilated in order to avoid their owners being identified, despite the fact that all breeding greyhounds have their DNA stored.

Dogs being routinely fed with EPO, despite there being no detected cases in years.

xckjoo · 29-11-2021 8:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241384#Comment_118241384

I did take a quick look at the GRI Report for 2020 and noticed a lot of welfare related stuff. It was good to see and hopefully makes a difference. I've no real issue with them racing as long as they looked after.

I hope you and your dogs are well Maryanne. More people like yourself are probably what the industry needs

Igotadose · 30-11-2021 7:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241427#Comment_118241427

Caring? Seriously? How would you recognize one that isn't? Your neighbor's a monster, a dog'll live on 3 legs just fine, and euthanasia is far more merciful than shooting, ffs, the poor animal is stunned and bleeds out. Someone that shoots animals they purportedly care about is a monster. I'd be calling the Guards if I had evidence.

Psychopaths are masters at making you feel things that aren't true. That's where this neighbor of yours excels.

Discodog · 30-11-2021 7:57am

There should be no dogs that are "missing" or "unaccounted for". Every Greyhound puppy should be registered & the owner held responsible for it's future. The idea that you can breed dogs to race without producing a large amount of surplus dogs is not possible.

The "responsible" owners are complicit in the abuse. Some just close their eyes & pretend it doesn't exist. Others say that it's a minority. When are we going to hear of owners being prosecuted because the responsible owners reported them ?

I personally know Vets that are on the rota & take their turn at race meetings. Very few owners are willing to pay a fortune to treat a dog that will have no prospect of racing again.

As for pet dogs, the huge increase in Vet practices, groomers & the uptake of pet insurance etc show that dog ownership is changing. Greyhound care is improving but only because the publicity, including RTE, seriously damaged the sport.

Igotadose · 30-11-2021 8:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243251#Comment_118243251

And since then, in 2020 with the 'cover' of the pandemic, GRI's just quietly upped the amount they get from the government. Nothing will change, whole sport including coursing just needs to end. Ireland tolerates amazing amounts of criminality.

Try getting an animal cruelty charge against someone mistreating a dog in Ireland. You'll find out quickly how useless the dog wardens are, and the guards even less so. The prevailing attitude is always "Don't make waves" "Anything for a quiet life" "Shur and you'll be grand." Dog wardens in the UK and US have arrest powers. Here in Ireland, they need YOU to swear out a complaint to the guards.

Loathsome. Innocent greyhounds raised for breeding purposes only with their pups sold off wherever. I'd hoped Brexit would've put an end to Greyhound export to the UK, but so far, not yet.

Jequ0n · 30-11-2021 8:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243248#Comment_118243248

To be fair: the neighbour sounds like your run of the mill farmer who does not see his animals as anything but a commodity.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243264#Comment_118243264

Totally agree. When I first moved to Ireland I noticed a difference in how animals were often treated and regarded. I’m not sure if it’s a “hangover” from the heavy reliance on agriculture and most of the country bring rural, but there seems to be a higher acceptance of animal cruelty.

Igotadose · 30-11-2021 8:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243302#Comment_118243302

I live in a rural region. Most of the farmers take excellent care of their dogs.

The problem ones we've known, fall into the 'too old to be farming would you give it up ffs' gaga/nearly senile types who shouldn't own a guppy let alone a dog. The younger farmers aren't the same when it comes to their dogs.

Farmers in the UK don't do this - it's not a 'farmer' thing. Maybe it's an Irish farmer thing, but calling some neighbor caring who has shot 5 of his own dogs is nuts. That's not caring, it's monstrous and the neighbor should be shunned.

Jequ0n · 30-11-2021 8:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243353#Comment_118243353

Don’t get me wrong, animal cruelty gets my blood boiling. But sadly I don’t think the man in this example is a rarity.

Igotadose · 30-11-2021 8:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243398#Comment_118243398

I really appreciate the perspective.

Have you noticed the 'pro-racing' types here always say the bad apples are rarities? I don't think they are, either. I think treating the dogs as commodities is absolutely commonplace, and the bleating from the GRI about how they're squandering the money they get on 'programmes' like chipping and record keeping is just deflection. The average breeder only cares about the money, dog welfare is balanced with expense. It's how they make their money, which I wouldn't be surprised isn't largely squandered on gambling on dogs, including their own.

Jequ0n · 30-11-2021 9:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243410#Comment_118243410

I don’t think I know anyone who is in support of the industry, but the general feeling seems to be one of acceptance aka not wanting to know.

Of course it is nothing but a money making scheme, no different to horse racing.

I noticed that a lot of these things, incl dog racing and the horse fairs, are justified by quoting “tradition” and people get defensive when someone challenges them.

30-11-2021 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243251#Comment_118243251

Re your first point; No greyhound born can be unaccounted for. This wasn’t always the case, which led to my and many hundreds more retirees, who were either on living room couches or outside in a comfy kennel, being included amongst the missing. Also counted as missing were the thousands of coursing dogs, those sold abroad and those who died of natural causes.

Where is the point in spending large amounts of money on breeding greyhounds only to abuse them? Control Stewards have eyes in their heads. If they feel something isn’t right with a greyhound, he will consult with the vet on duty and if necessary withdraw the dog from the race.

Yes, there has to be a vet in duty at every race meeting. This is a welfare must. GRI have supports in place to ensure that race ending injures are not life ending ones.

Another poster says that all we care about is money. Little do they know! For the majority of us, it’s a pastime.

I looked back on some of the opening posts on this thread and was not really surprised to read so many saying that they wouldn’t watch the RTÉ programme, nor had they ever been up close with greyhound rearing or racing, yet felt able to offer in-depth analysis.

30-11-2021 10:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241427#Comment_118241427

If the dog broke its leg during a race, he wouldn’t have had to pay to euthanise and dispose of it. This is covered by the track who have to have a vet in attendance.

Jequ0n · 30-11-2021 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243797#Comment_118243797

But nothing spells “I love you” like a bullet to the brain.

LawBoy2018 · 30-11-2021 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118243248#Comment_118243248

I want to report him but my parents are being twats about the whole situation. If I were to report him, it would be obvious that it was me as I have already confronted him about it.

Igotadose · 30-11-2021 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244903#Comment_118244903

Your neighbor's a dangerous person. You only know of 5 dogs - my guess is he has a long history of doing this. And, it's a crying shame that there''s no freedom of speech in Ireland and that the dog warden lacks investigatory and arrest powers. My own experience of reporting a dog attack (on me, bit me good, took a doctor's visit and antibiotics to clean up the mess) was that reporting the attack to the Warden, then the Guards, resulted in the neighbor in question somehow magically obtaining my name, phone number and home address. He paid us a visit while we weren't home, called me on the phone later (and was duly told off), then some of his misbegotten offspring confronted me on the road about it. I didn't back down though, continued the followup with the Guards and eventually the 'old gaga farmer' had to restrain his dog and muzzle it, for what all that was worth. The dog isn't a greyhound.

When the Guard called to follow up, she had no idea how the farmer had my personal information. Considering my last name is extremely unusual in Ireland, I expect she was lying. I didn't quite tell her so, her being a guard and all, but we didn't end the conversation in a friendly way and I think I made her a bit nervous wondering out loud how he could've gotten my name and phone number so readily given only the Guards and the Dog Warden had it.

I'd go to the guards if you have proof of this horrid mans behaviour. I'm sure the neighbors actually have plenty they don't like about him that'd come out if he got in trouble due to his behaviour to his greyhounds. No one in the greyhound industry would lift a finger - imagine, the GRI funding investigation into the treatment of greyhounds by their owners. I mean, how did these 5 greyhounds, all duly chipped and registered like we hear the GRI is doing, suddenly died without any followup? Oh that's right...just a few bad apples.

30-11-2021 5:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118246531#Comment_118246531

If the horrid man in question was so tight, he’d have let the track vet euthanasie and dispose of the dog, saving himself the bother and cartridge/bullet.

Discodog · 30-11-2021 6:27pm

A farmer came into my vet having run over his own Collie. The Vet performed emergency surgery & called the farmer to say that the dog had survived. They explained that they had to amputate a leg but the dog would make full recovery. The farmer said that a three legged dog was no good to him & told the Vet to keep it. Luckily it wasn't a Greyhound.

Discodog · 30-11-2021 6:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118246573#Comment_118246573

When did the Vet grant come in ? Found it 2019 ? So what happened before then ?

30-11-2021 6:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247015#Comment_118247015

I’m not sure what you mean by a grant, but for as long as I can remember there’s been a vet on duty race nights.

Discodog · 30-11-2021 6:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247035#Comment_118247035

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-greyhound-board-care-fund-4753855-Aug2019/

It has a maximum of €1000 for long bone injuries. A leg break could cost three times this amount.

The point is that the IGB only introduced these changes after the RTE program.

30-11-2021 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247066#Comment_118247066

Gotya. That’s the care package which was introduced more recently alright. The price of surgery would depend on the injury. €1,000 would go a long way.

It’s a pity a photo from Irish greyhound racing wasn’t used in that article quoted!

Discodog · 30-11-2021 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247091#Comment_118247091

So no more dogs will need to be euthanised - I look forward to seeing them all.

30-11-2021 6:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247117#Comment_118247117

Again it will depend on the injury. I would hate to have a dog live in pain just to keep it alive to prove a point.

Discodog · 30-11-2021 6:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118247133#Comment_118247133

They shouldn't be getting injured in the first place. Unfortunately the law sees Greyhounds differently to other dogs. If I repeatedly subjected my dog to danger I could face prosecution.