RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Klaaz what would you think of scrapping current bodies and setting up a new one with people from the greyhound industry and the animal rights lobby along with vets etc?

Work together?

You really are incredibly ill informed. A quick google will show you that this has been going on for the past 20 years.

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yes exactly. Step up or lose. That is the reality.



There are kids in there every weekend. Teens even celebrities. Pat Kenny is a mad fan. Ap McCoy part owns a dog so does JP Mc Manus's wife. You really think they hate animals? They sure don't need the money.

RTE had a Greyhound - The Late Late Show.

RTE made the recent program.

I can't imagine that RTE will support racing after this.

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

True. But i am being serious here. Most people who do the work are voluntary and a few have salaries sometimes high salaries. Where the money is allocated is not always transparent.

And the voluntary work is of questionable quality.

For instance I had a friend that volunteered to take a cat recently had a leg amputated. He didn't have a flat that was suitable (why he volunteered for it I don't know) but he took the cat to his parents home. And subsequently LOST it for three days. It escaped. My mother caught it for him in a cat trap eventually she set up in our garden because he kept coming to our house.

His stitched had become infected by that time though. The was ok in the end but it really didn't need to be so complicated.

Its really not good enough. Probably if he had been honest about his home situation they wouldn't have let him foster in the first place.

The cat didn't need to go through that. That is the DSPCA by the way it was totally irresponsible of them. The cat could have easily died but thankfully it was nothing more than infected stitches and a scary three days. It still didn't need to be that way though.

He acts as a foster home for dogs etc too. He only lives in a bedsit. I am not sure how he does it. I guess he brings them to his parents sometimes i dunno. It's kind of weird because when my brother asked why he didn't want a permanent pet he said it was because he didn't have the space for them. But apparently for fostering its ok.

I think yeah I am a little indignant at the self righteousness of some of the animal charities TBH. For the standard of care they give and the knowledge they have they should be a lot more HUMBLE.

They have to publish accounts as registered charities.

They receive very little money because we don't donate to animal charities - The UK public give 6 times more per person that we do.

Those charities, that you criticise, save thousands of dogs per year. We used to kill 15000 dogs per year, in the Pounds. That figure is now below 5000 because of the hard work that you denigrate.

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Oh my god i have just seen this.



THIS DOG BELONGS TO ONE OF THE ANTI RACING PROTESTORS.

It's obviously emaciated.

First WHY does a woman who calls herself an animal rights activist have an emaciated dog and why is said dog at a protest when its obviously in NO condition to be there??

What on EARTH are these people playing at?

THAT looks like animal abuse to me.

You are so utterly ignorant. That's how Greyhounds often look. My girl, that never raced & ate like a horse, was the same.

Discodog

This was written by Pete Wedderburn aka Pete the Vet. Lots more about racing here.

https://www.petethevet.com/tag/greyhounds/


Traceability and accountability for all non-racing registered greyhounds, estimated at 10,000 annually. The Irish Greyhound Board’s reliance on “wastage” (killing of unwanted greyhounds) has no place in the 21st century
The number of puppies born annually should be logged precisely. If every calf, lamb and piglet is tracked from birth to death, why not greyhounds?

Abuse/cruelty cases (violations of the Greyhound Welfare Act, Animal Health and Welfare Act, IGB Code of Practice, etc) need to be addressed more seriously. In my opinion there have been insufficient responses to such cases, insufficient penalties and prosecutions, and not as much transparency as there needs to be to inspire public confidence.

Inadequate funding and programmes for responsible rehoming of unwanted greyhounds: at most, 12% of the “disappeared” 10,000 every year currently find homes or rescue space. What happens to the other 88%?
Injuries and deaths at the racetracks (including subsequent deaths caused by racing) need to be monitored transparently and comprehensively. With IGB as a semi-state body, this should be logged and the statistics should be publicly available.

Drug testing – insufficient levels of drug testing is carried out for the number of races taking place. Presently, only about 5000 random samples are taken even though there are about 60,000 individual greyhound entries annually.

gozunda

Some good news to counter some of the usual negitive stuff being peddled ....

https://www.newstalk.com/news/1000-retired-greyhounds-re-homed-2018-837284

The Irish Retired Greyhound Trust (IRGT) has revealed that more than 1,000 retired dogs were re-homed last year.

The IRGT, with the support of the Irish Greyhound Board, has helped to re-home over 5,600 racing greyhounds since 2008 - with 1,021 re-homed between January and December last year.

The Irish Greyhound Board contributed €106,000 to the Trust's total income of €242,000 in 2018.

That just the figures from the IRGT.

https://www.irgt.ie/

It's good to see this happening. No doubt the naysayers will be along shortly to denigrate their work. But hey what's new ...


Heres a great video of adopted greyhounds from the dogs trust

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQetYd8W_zY

Igotadose

gozunda wrote: »

Lots of things do not involve animals as volunteers. Sheep dogs trials anyone? Maybe you should ask the greyhounds do they enjoy racing? The ones I've seen at my neighbours who keeps greyhounds do it naturally. The fat overfed pet dogs of the lady who moved here some years ago imo will have seriously forshortened lifespans.

Ok back to the last comment just because you didn't get it - the point was that there were 139 deaths out of 100000 dogs raced. That is equivalent to a figure of just 0.14% of deaths. You asked how to get it to zero. Answers on a postcard please...

The ones I've seen, and seen described on the thread, describe them as 'couch potatoes'. But, they've been selectively bred to chase a live, then a mechanical rabbit. Asking an animal if it enjoys something is stupid, they don't "enjoy." They react. And, obviously if there were NO greyhound races, we wouldn't have greyhound deaths at the track. I am glad to see you accept the IGB's statistics on the track deaths, though. That's progress, though I don't believe you were denying them, unlike others on the thread. So remember, 2 greyhounds die at the track each week to support this 'hobby'. Is it worth it? For entertainment?


As for 'volunteers', remember we're talking about a taxpayer-funded industry selecting animals for entertainment and to support gambling. Far different than sheepdogs, at least the ones I know actually do work and help the farmers earn an income not based on a vice, like gambling. No comparison, just more whataboutery.

And, speaking of things you've not addressed, should coursing be banned? I believe it should, it's just an exercise in animal cruelty. The rabbits will be fine on their own. Better to preserve their habitats if that's the fiction the coursing associations are using to justify themselves, via direct grants of the money to purchase and maintain habitats, rather than filtering it through the coursing 'sport'. Funny how the 'you're banning my fun!' types neglect coursing in their diatribes.

Coursing should be banned. Flat out. Tomorrow. Close down the ICC and transition the ICC workers to other jobs.

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

Some good news to counter some of the usual drivel being peddled ....

https://www.newstalk.com/news/1000-retired-greyhounds-re-homed-2018-837284



That just the figures from the IRGT.

https://www.irgt.ie/

It's good to see this happening. No doubt the naysayers will be along shortly to denigrate their work. But hey what's new ...


Heres a great video of adopted greyhounds from the dogs trust

The same Dogs Trust that are leading the campaign to stop Greyhounds being killed. Great choice of video & afaik they aren't part of the IGB scheme.

Lots of rescue groups won't join the scheme as you have to undertake not to criticise or speak out against racing - not worth it for a paltry €50

klaaaz

Excellent news this week that Florida has become the latest USA state to ban greyhound racing in a ballot passed by the electorate, all 11 tracks will close by 2021. Roll on Ireland's 16 tracks to close!

jackboy

Igotadose wrote: »

And, speaking of things you've not addressed, should coursing be banned? I believe it should, it's just an exercise in animal cruelty. The rabbits will be fine on their own. Better to preserve their habitats if that's the fiction the coursing associations are using to justify themselves, via direct grants of the money to purchase and maintain habitats, rather than filtering it through the coursing 'sport'. Funny how the 'you're banning my fun!' types neglect coursing in their diatribes.

Coursing should be banned. Flat out. Tomorrow. Close down the ICC and transition the ICC workers to other jobs.

It’s hares not rabbits used in coursing. The main issue is illegal hunting, not habitat destruction.

gozunda

Igotadose wrote: »

The ones I've seen, and seen described on the thread, describe them as 'couch potatoes'. But, they've been selectively bred to chase a live, then a mechanical rabbit. Asking an animal if it enjoys something is stupid, they don't "enjoy." They react. And, obviously if there were NO greyhound races, we wouldn't have greyhound deaths at the track. I am glad to see you accept the IGB's statistics on the track deaths, though. That's progress, though I don't believe you were denying them, unlike others on the thread. So remember, 2 greyhounds die at the track each week to support this 'hobby'. Is it worth it? For entertainment? As for 'volunteers', remember we're talking about a taxpayer-funded industry selecting animals for entertainment and to support gambling. Far different than sheepdogs, at least the ones I know actually do work and help the farmers earn an income not based on a vice, like gambling. No comparison, just more ...

Well you've never seen real greyhound if you believe they do not enjoy racing. They will even do it naturally if you have two greyhounds together. As detailed the figures reveal just 0.14 % deaths of greyhounds involved in racing out of the 100000 dogs raced. Much less than even one percent. Not excusing any deaths but accidental deaths unfortunately accidents happen to all animsls. So quit the hyperbole and exaggeration and get with the program. Lots of sports recieve funing yet the screamers just pick on greyhounds be cause the only thing they want to do is ban ban ban. It makes you wonder what the next campaign to ban is? Working dogs of any kind? I know Guide dogs! Obviously bloodly unnatural that kind of thing - should be banned :rolleyes:

Edit: my bad!!!! I forgot to add that those figures came from IGB data as posted by Igotadose.

Igotadose wrote: »

IGB numbers. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/139-greyhounds-put-down-over-race-injuries-462935.html...

gozunda

Tbh as an ordinary bystander I find the problem with much of the continued and constant running down of anything and everything to do with greyhounds including those working to help greyhounds, is that a lot of its either plainly untrue or misinformation. Not really surprised tbh. That's seems to the type of tactics used...

I did a bit of research on the Irish Retired Greyhound Trust which I came across before at a show. Not only have they been doing really excellent work promoting retired greyhounds - they have indeed been working with various other groups to achieve these ends.

This from the Dogs Tust working in conjunction with the IRGT, IGB and others

The IGF was established almost 13 years ago by the former CEO of Dogs Trust, Clarissa Baldwin CBE and now includes animal welfare members such as the ISPCA, Irish Blue Cross, Paws Animal Rescue and The Retired Greyhound Trust as well as Industry members (Irish Greyhound Board, Irish Coursing Club, Greyhound Board of Great Britain) and members of the veterinary profession. The IGB has vowed to engage and work with members of the IGF in formulating the expanded code. This is a positive step and one that we will continue to remain engaged in to ensure the protection of the welfare of all Irish Greyhounds through all stages of their life

You really couldnt believe some of those who try and deny that groups like the dogs trust, the IRGT and the IGB etc are actually working together to improve standards and welfare.

The animal extremists should take a leaf out of their book tbh.

Heres the video again cos it put a smile on my face

Interesting fact from the video that it can take twice as long as other breeds for adoption. Something the groups above are working on afaik ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQetYd8W_zY

klaaaz

There was a large march last week in Cork city centre by dog lovers from animal rescues and ordinary people against the brutality of slaughtering thousands of greyhounds for greyhound racing.

There will be another big march today by animal rescues and ordinary dog lovers from the public in support of greyhounds who have no voice against their genocidal oppressors in Dublin city centre, all are welcome to join except Dog Abusers.

jackboy

klaaaz wrote: »

There will be another big march today by animal rescues and ordinary dog lovers from the public in support of greyhounds who have no voice against their genocidal oppressors in Dublin city centre, all are welcome to join except Dog Abusers.

This extreme language does not help the debate and actually discredits your point of view.

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

Well you've never seen real greyhound if you believe they do not enjoy racing. They will even do it naturally if you have two greyhounds together. As detailed the figures reveal just 0.14 % deaths of greyhounds involved in racing out of the 100000 dogs raced. Much less than even one percent. Not excusing any deaths but accidental deaths unfortunately accidents happen to all animsls. So quit the hyperbole and exaggeration and get with the program. Lots of sports recieve funing yet the screamers just pick on greyhounds be cause the only thing they want to do is ban ban ban. It makes you wonder what the next campaign to ban is? Working dogs of any kind? I know Guide dogs! Obviously bloodly unnatural that kind of thing - should be feking BANNNEDDDDD :rolleyes:

I would love to know what drug you are on.

"while the number of dogs racing annually was some 3,600".

100,000 to 3,600 is some exaggeration

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/whereabouts-of-6-000-greyhound-pups-a-year-unknown-igb-told-1.3939498

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

I did a bit of research on the Irish Retired Greyhound Trust which I came across before at a show. Not only have they been doing really excellent work promoting retired greyhounds - they have indeed been working with various other groups to achieve these ends.

This from the Dogs Tust working in conjunction with the IRGT, IGB and others



You really couldnt believe some of those who try and deny that groups like the dogs trust, the IRGT and the IGB etc are actually working together to improve standards and welfare.

The animal extremists should take a leaf out of their book tbh.

You would regard Clarissa as an extremist. She founded The Canine Defence League in around 1970. Dogs Trust have made their position totally clear. They & all the other welfare groups express their "disappointment" at the lack of progress from the IGB. Twelve years on & still thousands of Greyhounds being killed every year.

Discodog

jackboy wrote: »

This extreme language does not help the debate and actually discredits your point of view.

What's extreme ? Do you want to ban protests in Ireland ?

klaaaz

Killing 6000 or as the rescues estimate 10,000 greyhounds per year for being too slow to win a race for gamblers is dog abuse.

Snugglebunnies

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Why do you come across as indignant that you had to pay for neutering and a donation? A rescue is a charity that relies on public donations. Nobody should be picking up the tab for rehoming your greyhound but you. Do you realise how much it costs to keep that greyhound for months and months until they can be sent to a ned home abroad, which also has to be paid for.

My point is that they received a donation from me, one from the IGB and one from the adopter. No need for them to keep the dog for months and months. I kept her until her adoption was approved. I’m not alone in having done this. My donation covered much more than the transport costs and paperwork.

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote: »

Killing 6000 or as the rescues estimate 10,000 greyhounds per year for being too slow to win a race for gamblers is dog abuse.

You do realise that there are almost 20 different grades? One to suit every greyhounds speed? I’m sure that you also realise that there’s a huge difference between greyhounds being killed and them simply being unaccounted for?

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You do realise that there are almost 20 different grades? One to suit every greyhounds speed? I’m sure that you also realise that there’s a huge difference between greyhounds being killed and them simply being unaccounted for?

Yeah unfortunately that doesn't suit the propaganda Maryanne. We might as well try and claim that the 30,000 domestic dogs bred and unaccounted for in this country every year are all 'genocidaly' 'slaughtered' and 'massacred' (sic) by pet owners and the like :rolleyes:

Graces7

jackboy wrote: »

This extreme language does not help the debate and actually discredits your point of view.

Please; how do you work that out? It was an excellent post. Not at all extreme but very much to the point,.

CiarraiAbu2

klaaaz wrote: »

Killing 6000 or as the rescues estimate 10,000 greyhounds per year for being too slow to win a race for gamblers is dog abuse.

As a matter of interest are you anti horse racing as well.

Discodog

klaaaz wrote: »

Killing 6000 or as the rescues estimate 10,000 greyhounds per year for being too slow to win a race for gamblers is dog abuse.

Yes but that 10,000 figure comes from a highly respected Vet - obviously another extremist.

And of course the Irish figures don't take into account all the Irish dogs killed in the UK.

This site keeps very well up to date. Trudy is very well respected & they have been compiling accurate figure for the past 20 years.

https://greytexploitations.com/

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Please; how do you work that out? It was an excellent post. Not at all extreme but very much to the point,.

You don’t find the expression “genocidal oppressors” extreme?

Or maybe your post is tongue in cheek?

gozunda

I see various crazy figures being plucked out of the air regarding what is being termed "unaccounted" greyhounds.

The 6000 presented in the RTE report as detailed previously is disputed and seemingly does not stand up to scrutiny

In a statement to RTÉ Investigates, the IGB said despite the report "the level of greyhound euthanasia is unknown".

It said the analysis of the dog pool carried out by Preferred Results Ltd, "did not accord with what was clearly visible in the industry at the time the report was presented to the IGB in late September 2017".

It said in respect of greyhound deaths that "all figures referenced in media and elsewhere from a variety of different sources - including the Preferred Results Report - are based on guesstimates/estimates and have no evidence base".

As for the 10,000 which has now been waved around like a big prize watermellon - how about we up the ante and say 50,000! That sounds so much better :rolleyes:

Or maybe it's being mixed up with the 10,000 dogs of all breeds being taken in by the pounds around the country?

Who knows? One thing for sure the obvious exaggeration and deliberate misinformation presented by various extremist groups does them no favours whatsoever imo

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

I see various crazy figures being plucked out of the air regarding what is being termed "unaccounted" greyhounds.

The 6000 presented in the RTE report as detailed previously is disputed and seemingly does not stand up to scrutiny



As for the 10,000 which has now been waved around like a big prize watermellon - how about we up the ante and say 50,000! That sounds so much better :rolleyes:

Or maybe it's being mixed up with the 10,000 dogs of all breeds being taken in by the pounds around the country?

Who knows? One thing for sure the obvious exaggeration and deliberate misinformation presented by various extremist groups does them no favours whatsoever imo

The ICC & IGB do:

Litters registered (ICC average 6* pups per litter):
2010 – 3,003 (18,018 total greyhounds born)
2011 – 3,272 (19,632 total greyhounds born)
2012 – 2,980 (17,880 total greyhounds born)
2013 – 2,736 (16,416 total greyhounds born)
2014 – 2,801 (16,806 total greyhounds born)
2015 – 2,709 (16,254 total greyhounds born)
2016 – 2,520 (15,120 total greyhounds born)

17,800 greyhounds were born in 2012
16,224 greyhounds were registered and tattooed in 2012
6,100 greyhounds were exported in to the UK in 2015 (c.3 years old is the racing age for
greyhounds)
203 greyhounds were euthanised in Ireland in 2015
10,377 greyhounds are unaccounted for in official statistics


So even if the lifespan was only 7 years there should be 117,000 Greyhounds out there somewhere.

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

I just love the way actual figures are taken, others picked out of the other and then guestimated into some magical round sounding result and presented as 'official' fact. Not even the RTE programme was able to think that one up tbh. :rolleyes:

Tbh haven't seen such mad speculation with figures since the Ansbacher accounts.

All those figures are directly from the IGB/ICC & form part of the Greyhound Welfare Bill. So any guessing, magical rounding or presenting as official is by them.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/libraryResearch/2018/2018-10-24_bill-digest-greyhound-racing-bill-2018_en.pdf

Igotadose

gozunda wrote: »

I just love the way actual figures are taken, others picked out of the other and then guestimated into some magical round sounding result and presented as fact. :rolleyes:

I haven't seen such mad speculation with figures since the Ansbacher accounts.

Wouldn't it be helpful if the IGB actually kept some verified figures. Something a government agency you'd think would be interested in doing. Well, maybe now that registration's required with the ICC or whatever the latest great idea is from the IGB. I'm sure we'll be seeing these numbers post-haste now.

Still, we do have the Powers report showing estimated numbers of breedings per year, it's a start. The numbers posted earlier aren't off of the number from that report, and the number of pups per litter is conjecture, have heard 4, 5 and 6 on this forum, 5 and 6 from pro-racing types.

So, what numbers would you project are the numbers of litters per year and the average size per litter? Surely pro-racing types have an idea, being so focused on all things greyhound welfare related.

And, getting back to my other question, do you agree coursing should be banned outright? Complete waste of resources on a blood sport "enjoyed" by a minute segment of society.

Discodog

Igotadose wrote: »

Wouldn't it be helpful if the IGB actually kept some verified figures. Something a government agency you'd think would be interested in doing. Well, maybe now that registration's required with the ICC or whatever the latest great idea is from the IGB. I'm sure we'll be seeing these numbers post-haste now.

Still, we do have the Powers report showing estimated numbers of breedings per year, it's a start. The numbers posted earlier aren't off of the number from that report, and the number of pups per litter is conjecture, have heard 4, 5 and 6 on this forum, 5 and 6 from pro-racing types.

So, what numbers would you project are the numbers of litters per year and the average size per litter? Surely pro-racing types have an idea, being so focused on all things greyhound welfare related.

And, getting back to my other question, do you agree coursing should be banned outright? Complete waste of resources on a blood sport "enjoyed" by a minute segment of society.

That's the big problem. The figure I listed are those provided by the ICC/IGB. It's like putting ex criminals in charge of the justice system. None of the data can be verified so basically they can say whatever they want.

I recall they had the same problem with their accounts & their auditors took extended sick leave after this expose.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/greyhound-board-auditors-take-sick-leave-after-race-fixing-report-234798.html