RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am sorry if it appears that way. Her face is not shown in the picture.

I could say you are doing the same about everyone in the greyhound industry.

I know plenty of people oppose racing. They do it differently though.

The abuse & unnecessary killing has been known & published about for decades. No one involved in racing can claim to have been unaware of it. Why didn't the good owners speak out ?

If a group of "good" owners got together & had publicly condemned the killing back then, they could of saved thousands of dogs. Their voice would of been so powerful. But they stayed silent & they are still silent.

At the end of the day not rocking the boat is more important than saving Greyhounds. It's the standard procedure that's been followed time after time. Close ranks, close your eyes & wait for things to die down. Promise change, assure the government that it won't be embarrassed again by bad headlines & then quietly carry on as before.

Good owners may care about their dogs but they care about the industry more.

ILoveYourVibes

Discodog wrote: »

I was using the surrendered figures & making an approximate comparison to previous years.

No you are not. Your figures are off the wall. They are incorrect.

jackboy

Discodog wrote: »

My girl was only around a year old & only had a 14 inch waist. She was fed a Vet approved diet but never really gained much weight. I don't know the owner, you don't know the owner & Vibes doesn't know the owner. So anyone commenting on a photo without knowing the dog, owner or history is ill informed.

I never mentioned the owner. I pointed out that the dog is in poor condition. That is a fact.

ILoveYourVibes

Discodog wrote: »

The abuse & unnecessary killing has been known & published about for decades. No one involved in racing can claim to have been unaware of it. Why didn't the good owners speak out ?

If a group of "good" owners got together & had publicly condemned the killing back then, they could of saved thousands of dogs. Their voice would of been so powerful. But they stayed silent & they are still silent.

At the end of the day not rocking the boat is more important than saving Greyhounds. It's the standard procedure that's been followed time after time. Close ranks, close your eyes & wait for things to die down. Promise change, assure the government that it won't be embarrassed again by bad headlines & then quietly carry on as before.

Good owners may care about their dogs but they care about the industry more.

Several owners and trainers have. Harry Findlay in the UK wanted to revamp the industry.

Perhaps you are not enough in the know with them to realize who is on your side?

You have a saviour/messiah complex.

Can you honestly say you think the protestors at shelbourne were behaving in a manner you would be proud of?

https://www.igb.ie/About-IGB/news/successful-prosecution-brought-by-bord-na-gcon-under-welfare-of-greyhounds-act-2011/

The greyhound board prosecutes people who abuse greyhounds above is one such case.

Are they really all bad?

Successful Prosecution Brought by Bord na gCon under Welfare of Greyhounds Act 2011

Bord Na gCon (Irish Greyhound Board) wish to advise that, at Nenagh District Court on Thursday 25th June, it was successful in its first prosecution brought against an individual under its most recently introduced legislation, the Welfare of Greyhounds Act 2011.

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No you are not. Your figures are off the wall. They are incorrect.

Are these incorrect ? If not where do you think they are ?

10,377 greyhounds are unaccounted for in official statistics

ILoveYourVibes

Discodog wrote: »

Are these incorrect ? If not where do you think they are ?

10,377 greyhounds are unaccounted for in official statistics

They are not official stats. Even the 6000 per year the documentary CLAIMS are not official stats. And the ISPCA states its about 400 per year.

There is not 10k greyhounds in the country. There isn't even 6k .


What about this?

https://www.igb.ie/About-IGB/news/successful-prosecution-brought-by-bord-na-gcon-under-welfare-of-greyhounds-act-2011/

And i mean you say its 10k the documentary said it was 6k etc?

The ISPCA says its about 400.

I really don't know at this stage.

The abuse published etc has largely been published by groups people have reason to be skeptical about.

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Several owners and trainers have. Harry Findlay in the UK wanted to revamp the industry.

Perhaps you are not enough in the know with them to realize who is on your side?

You have a saviour/messiah complex.

Can you honestly say you think the protestors at shelbourne were behaving in a manner you would be proud of?

https://www.igb.ie/About-IGB/news/successful-prosecution-brought-by-bord-na-gcon-under-welfare-of-greyhounds-act-2011/

The greyhound board prosecutes people who abuse greyhounds above is one such case.

Are they really all bad?

Several UK owners. That's going to make a big difference :rolleyes:

Why don't a hundred good owners protest outside the IGB ?

Thank you for your physiological assessment - you clearly can judge people without even seeing a photo unlike dogs :rolleyes:

One case, one paltry case. Wow well done IGB.

I am not the parent of protesters nor their keeper. What I do know is they give their time & they get torrents of abuse. I have seen & heard it first hand many times. I think most have remarkable restraint giving the levels of Greyhound killing & the provocation from those supporting racing.

ILoveYourVibes

Discodog wrote: »

Several UK owners. That's going to make a big difference :rolleyes:

Why don't a hundred good owners protest outside the IGB ?

Thank you for your physiological assessment - you clearly can judge people without even seeing a photo unlike dogs :rolleyes:

One case, one paltry case. Wow well done IGB.

Several cases this is one example. They don't protest in their hundreds because it changes nothing. They put people who abuse dogs in prison. Which is the best place for them.

Not saying the IGB is perfect far from it. But they are not all bad either. Certainly anyone i have met in the industry in private will admit it has a huge issue with doping of dogs.

You seem to have swallowed propaganda by far out websites and publications whole. I am not sure that is wise.

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They are not official stats. Even the 6000 per year the documentary CLAIMS are not official stats. And the ISPCA states its about 400 per year.

There is not 10k greyhounds in the country. There isn't even 6k .


What about this?

https://www.igb.ie/About-IGB/news/successful-prosecution-brought-by-bord-na-gcon-under-welfare-of-greyhounds-act-2011/

And i mean you say its 10k the documentary said it was 6k etc?

The ISPCA says its about 400.

I really don't know at this stage.

The abuse published etc has largely been published by groups people have reason to be skeptical about.

If you bothered to look at the thread before wading in you would see that the figure of 10,377 greyhounds are unaccounted for in official statistics came directed from the IGB as part of an Oireachtas presentation.

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Several cases this is one example. They don't protest in their hundreds because it changes nothing. They put people who abuse dogs in prison. Which is the best place for them.

Not saying the IGB is perfect far from it. But they are not all bad either. Certainly anyone i have met in the industry in private will admit it has a huge issue with doping of dogs.

You seem to have swallowed propaganda by far out websites and publications whole. I am not sure that is wise.

Why am I bothering

One last post before I walked mine along the shore.

Even 10 good owners could change everything. The publicity would be huge especially if one or two were high profile.

No they don't. A prison sentence would be exceptional for animal cruelty in Ireland.

Not all bad ? It's an organisation

The IGB & the pro racing supporters here deny their is any problem with doping - again you didn't read before posting.

I haven't swallowed anything except breakfast. I have been campaigning against racing for over 30 years & involved in animal welfare both here & the UK.

Now time for that walk. Please read, at least some of the thread, before making more accusations or personal judgments.

ILoveYourVibes

Discodog wrote: »

If you bothered to look at the thread before wading in you would see that the figure of 10,377 greyhounds are unaccounted for in official statistics came directed from the IGB as part of an Oireachtas presentation.

Not true.

The number was 6000 and it was an outside report compiled by consultants a company called preferred report.

The IGB paid Preferred Results Ltd €115,000 to deliver the report, which examined the industry's breeding and racing records and concluded that 5,987 greyhounds were being killed each year for being too slow.

The IGB disputed their findings. They said 6000 dogs included those who ended up in rescues and were rehomed in the uk. Which makes more sense. Preferred results presented no evidence at all these dogs were killed. It was anecdotal.

Think about it the animal welfare reports themselves say only about 400 greyhounds a year are put down.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/whereabouts-of-6-000-greyhound-pups-a-year-unknown-igb-told-1.3939498

It still could be way better.

The report just says these greyhounds are unaccounted for. It stands to reason some of these in shelters make up a part of that unaccounted for number.

Its still not ok. These dogs should not be in shelters anyhow.

ILoveYourVibes

Discodog wrote: »

The IGB & the pro racing supporters here deny their is any problem with doping - again you didn't read before posting.

That much I would agree with.

Now time for that walk. Please read, at least some of the thread, before making more accusations or personal judgments.

I say what I see. I am usually right on the money too.

There are very few activists groups that don't have at least a few people who are a bit off the wall in their beliefs and attitudes. I think if you were being honest you would admit the same.
And I am friends with a lot of 'crazy' activists. Its not an insult. Its just an acceptance of their eccentricity. I wouldn't always trust what they say though.


Also for anyone wondering the people at the protest represented them perfectly the bad and the good.

jackboy

Discodog wrote: »

The IGB & the pro racing supporters here deny their is any problem with doping - again you didn't read before posting..

Pretty much everyone here agrees that there is a problem with doping. As I said before, trainers that have been caught doping have not been punished. This does need to be sorted out.

ILoveYourVibes

jackboy wrote: »

Pretty much everyone here agrees that there is a problem with doping. As I said before, trainers that have been caught doping have not been punished. This does need to be sorted out.

Doping in greyhound racing is out of control. And its people working in the industry who are telling me this.

That is a part of animal welfare too.

As for dog deaths disappearing etc. People i trust in the industry think figures are way way overblown.

Igotadose

Deleted User wrote: »

So you keep saying, but you’re wrong.

Could you answer my question regarding the logic of spending thousands on breeding a litter of greyhounds only to not register them?
Also do you accept that lurchers are not used in licensed coursing events?

Oh, that's easy. They don't spend thousands. Have you seen receipts? They *claim* to spend thousands. Imagine how valuable an unregistered greyhound exported to China might be, eh?

We're relying on behavior of owners that's not directly enforced, only indirectly, by the IGB, who are lousy at it. Instead, end the live export and then see what happens with greyhound breeding. It seems pretty obvious to me, that live export is the big profit center for greyhound breeders.

ILoveYourVibes

Igotadose wrote: »

Imagine how valuable an unregistered greyhound exported to China might be, eh?

I would say it would be worth exactly nada.

They have their own greyhound racing tracks there too and their own breeders etc.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

If you bothered to look at the thread before wading in you would see that the figure of 10,377 greyhounds are unaccounted for in official statistics came directed from the IGB as part of an Oireachtas presentation.

Included in those figures are the many thousands kept as pets or just simply to live out their retirement in the kennel they raced from and are happiest.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Included in those figures are the many thousands kept as pets or just simply to live out their retirement in the kennel they raced from and are happiest.

Its actually 6k that is the highest figure. But you are totally correct.

The amount put down each year appears to be about 400 maybe 500.

The rest appear to be rehomed here or in the UK.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Doping in greyhound racing is out of control. And its people working in the industry who are telling me this.

That is a part of animal welfare too.

As for dog deaths disappearing etc. People i trust in the industry think figures are way way overblown.

I think that the doping situation is actually under control. Random tests are carried out every night at every track. In competitions ie stakes, every dog is tested in the final. It’s also usual for those unplaced in first round of major stakes to be tested. 5,297 tests are taken in 2017 (the most recent account available online) 29 or 0.005% returned an analytical finding, mostly for painkillers. These are published every month on IGBs website, as are control committee meetings and their sanctions/ penalties handed down. https://www.igb.ie/globalassets/report-pdfs/annual-reports/bord-na-gcon-annual-report-2017.pdf

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that the doping situation is actually under control. Random tests are carried out every night at every track. In competitions ie stakes, every dog is tested in the final. It’s also usual for those unplaced in first round of major stakes to be tested. 5,297 tests are taken in 2017 (the most recent account available online) 29 or 0.005% returned an analytical finding, mostly for painkillers. These are published every month on IGBs website, as are control committee meetings and their sanctions/ penalties handed down. https://www.igb.ie/globalassets/report-pdfs/annual-reports/bord-na-gcon-annual-report-2017.pdf

Having had a family member who worked at the track and witnessed the testing etc and saw how many dogs had to be taken off I disagree.

He seemed to think it was unreasonably high. His opinion was backed up by others I know.

He never felt dog deaths at the track etc or any other maltreatment was a real issue in greyhound racing. But doping he felt was high.

That is just anecdotal though I know.

I am just being honest about what i have heard.

His perceptions could be wrong.

Also another thing he would be aware of other 'signs' a dog was doped but not tested positive and the dog was not raced but not tested or passed a test but was suspicious. Sudden severe changes in water weight etc.

.

Igotadose

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I would say it would be worth exactly nada.

They have their own greyhound racing tracks there too and their own breeders etc.

Yes, and they'd love some Irish bloodlines, and as is well known, 'the law' is a spotty thing in China.

Igotadose

Igotadose wrote: »

Oh, that's easy. They don't spend thousands. Have you seen receipts? They *claim* to spend thousands. Imagine how valuable an unregistered greyhound exported to China might be, eh?.

I don’t need receipts. I have personal experience.
Example: saying I already own the mother.
Stud fee - minimum of €500
Vaccination - per pup, plus dam €50 each
Registering of litter at 14 days - €16
Feed, light, heat and general upkeep - How long is a piece of string? Say a litter of 5. Mother feeds them fully for 3 weeks. Say she eats a bag if nuts a week €28 plus meat, fish, milk, etc, say another €28. Bedding, shredded paper, cleaning stuff, heat usually a heat lamp, add another €28 a week. From 3 weeks an average litter would eat a small bag of puppy food, milk, weetabix, chicken, cooked meat, say €100 a week.
Then earmarking and microchipping X 5 another €50.
Regular workers for brood and pups, another €100
That’s up to 12 weeks. You’re well over €2,000
Now, take out the earmarking and tattooing and it’s still over €2,000 for pups that cannot be sold, raced or bred from.
What value would these pups be in China! 0. Zilch. Nothing. Without being registered, their breed is underdetermined so they are lurchers.

jackboy

From what I have heard, up to recently the analytical equipment used was deficient. This has now been sorted out by the purchase of new state of the art equipment.

I have heard in the past that a couple of top trainers that failed drug tests were not punished and in some cases just given small fines.

ILoveYourVibes

Igotadose wrote: »

Yes, and they'd love some Irish bloodlines, and as is well known, 'the law' is a spotty thing in China.

I really don't think so. There are greyhound tracks all over the world.

We are insignificant.

Anyway its been established most greyhounds in China come from Austrailia.

They are much nearer much cheaper to ship.

We aren't all that in the greyhound world as a country.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Having had a family member who worked at the track and witnessed the testing etc and saw how many dogs had to be taken off I disagree.

He seemed to think it was unreasonably high. His opinion was backed up by others I know.

He never felt dog deaths at the track etc or any other maltreatment was a real issue in greyhound racing. But doping he felt was high.

That is just anecdotal though I know.

I am just being honest about what i have heard.

His perceptions could be wrong.

Also another thing he would be aware of other 'signs' a dog was doped but not tested positive and the dog was not raced but not tested or passed a test but was suspicious. Sudden severe changes in water weight etc.

.

Why would a dog be taken off? Unless it was obviously not right, the results wouldn’t be known for possibly weeks.

Igotadose

So, to be clear: Approximately 2 dogs die per week at races in Ireland. Agreed?
And, coursing: Ban, or keep as is, or change? If change, how?

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would a dog be taken off? Unless it was obviously not right, the results wouldn’t be known for possibly weeks.

Happens all the time. Usually because of something not right with the dog or just 'odd' suspicious.

Sometimes the owner does it themselves actually.

Obviously vets will make the odd judgement call at the check up etc.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Happens all the time. Usually because of something not right with the dog or just 'odd' suspicious.

Sometimes the owner does it themselves actually.

In all my years greyhound racing up and down the country, I can only recall one incident where a dog wasn’t allowed run due to suspected doping. It was later found to have epilepsy. I have seen on a few occasions dogs being pulled for being over or under the allowed weight variation.

ILoveYourVibes

Igotadose wrote: »

So, to be clear: Approximately 2 dogs die per week at races in Ireland. Agreed?
And, coursing: Ban, or keep as is, or change? If change, how?

In the country as a whole yes it would appear not on the track but put down.

Arising from veterinary advice, 139 injured dogs were euthanised — 0.14% of all greyhounds raced.

But that is only 0.14 % of all greyhounds raced each year that are put down.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/139-greyhounds-put-down-over-race-injuries-462935.html

Coursing I don't know. As far as i know its not bad for the dogs? I could be wrong.

The hares etc i suppose you could object to. Some people say its cruel some people say the hare sometimes gets away.

I actually don't know anyone who courses. I don't think i have a great impression of it personally.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

In all my years greyhound racing up and down the country, I can only recall one incident where a dog wasn’t allowed run due to suspected doping. It was later found to have epilepsy. I have seen on a few occasions dogs being pulled for being over or under the allowed weight variation.

Yeah my brother mentioned the weight thing was the main reason. Privately its also thought weight variations are often caused by doping. Or that is what staff would say.

I am not sure if there is veterinary science behind this assumption.

He also would have said it was more than a few occasions.

Again its anecdotal though.