RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

Igotadose

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

In the country as a whole yes it would appear not on the track but put down.



But that is only 0.14 % of all greyhounds raced each year that are put down.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/139-greyhounds-put-down-over-race-injuries-462935.html

Thanks for changing your position from earlier to agree with the data presented.

Coursing I don't know. As far as i know its not bad for the dogs? I could be wrong.

The hares etc i suppose you could object to. Some people say its cruel some people say the hare sometimes gets away.

I actually don't know anyone who courses. I don't think i have a great impression of it personally.

Should it be banned? It seems simply as an exercise in cruelty for a minute segment of society living vicariously through 'blood sports.' Pretty disgusting and something I don't believe the State should subsidize (there are something like 185 employees of the ICC paid by the overall IGB budget in Ireland.)

ILoveYourVibes

Igotadose wrote: »

Thanks for changing your position from earlier to agree with the data presented.



Should it be banned? It seems simply as an exercise in cruelty for a minute segment of society living vicariously through 'blood sports.' Pretty disgusting and something I don't believe the State should subsidize (there are something like 185 employees of the ICC paid by the overall IGB budget in Ireland.)

I haven't changed my position at all. My brother would have said dog deaths were a rarity and 0.14% of all dogs raced would support that. Its a tiny percentage. Less than one percent.

I think if you tried to ban coursing it would go underground.

ILoveYourVibes

To be honest coursing is not something i can venture an opinion on i would probably just sound ill educated and ill read.

I just don't know anything about it.

Damien360

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In all my years greyhound racing up and down the country, I can only recall one incident where a dog wasn’t allowed run due to suspected doping. It was later found to have epilepsy. I have seen on a few occasions dogs being pulled for being over or under the allowed weight variation.

The dogs are never stopped on the night due to doping. That test is weeks after an event. I have only ever seen the vet stop a dog for weight issues.

As for doping. Some of this is amateur to say the least. My father in law was stopped for a few weeks as he liked to rub either deep-heat or Ibuprofen gel into the top of the dogs legs. That was picked up and he was notified not to run for a few weeks. No fine that I remember. His buddies had similar bans.

ILoveYourVibes

Damien360 wrote: »

The dogs are never stopped on the night due to doping. That test is weeks after an event. I have only ever seen the vet stop a dog for weight issues.

Yes but as i have said. The suspicion would be the weight variation is to do with doping. Its a sign a dog has been doped. There are other signs too.

Even if the dog passes a drug test there would be suspicions.

I am just being honest.

As for doping. Some of this is amateur to say the least. My father in law was stopped for a few weeks as he liked to rub either deep-heat or Ibuprofen gel into the top of the dogs legs. That was picked up and he was notified not to run for a few weeks. No fine that I remember. His buddies had similar bans.

Yeah things like that would be common.

ILoveYourVibes

GOZUNDA it says you have exceeded your message space. So thanks and keep her lit :P

@Gozunda

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yes but as i have said. The suspicion would be the weight variation is to do with doping. Its a sign a dog has been doped. There are other signs too.

Even if the dog passes a drug test there would be suspicions.

I am just being honest.

In old days, it wasn’t unusual for a dog to be fed a big meal before a race in the hope of slowing him down in order to land a gamble. It was also common practice to give the dogs a drop of tea in their breakfast to warm it up! That can’t be done now because of the caffeine!

The most common finding nowadays tends to be from innocently using a prohibited rub to rub the dog down after a race.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

In old days, it wasn’t unusual for a dog to be fed a big meal before a race in the hope of slowing him down in order to land a gamble. It was also common practice to give the dogs a drop of tea in their breakfast to warm it up! That can’t be done now because of the caffeine!

The most common finding nowadays tends to be from innocently using a prohibited rub to rub the dog down after a race.

From a lot of the dogs that test positive it seems kind of amateur like not steroids but drugs like Viagra and cocaine etc. Totally out of order though.

But it doesn't seem to me cocaine would make a dog a better athlete or anything. I could be wrong.

Don't get me wrong its totally not ok its abuse. I am just wondering what kind of person would think cocaine and viagra would improve a dog.

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its actually 6k that is the highest figure. But you are totally correct.

The amount put down each year appears to be about 400 maybe 500.

The rest appear to be rehomed here or in the UK.

Litters registered (ICC average 6* pups per litter):
2010 – 3,003 (18,018 total greyhounds born)
2011 – 3,272 (19,632 total greyhounds born)
2012 – 2,980 (17,880 total greyhounds born)
2013 – 2,736 (16,416 total greyhounds born)
2014 – 2,801 (16,806 total greyhounds born)
2015 – 2,709 (16,254 total greyhounds born)
2016 – 2,520 (15,120 total greyhounds born)

17,800 greyhounds were born in 2012
16,224 greyhounds were registered and tattooed in 2012
6,100 greyhounds were exported in to the UK in 2015 (c.3 years old is the racing age for
greyhounds)
203 greyhounds were euthanised in Ireland in 2015
10,377 greyhounds are unaccounted for in official statistics



All those figures are directly from the IGB/ICC & form part of the Greyhound Welfare Bill. Page 10 as you won't believe me.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireac...ll-2018_en.pdf

ILoveYourVibes

Discodog wrote: »

Litters registered (ICC average 6* pups per litter):
2010 – 3,003 (18,018 total greyhounds born)
2011 – 3,272 (19,632 total greyhounds born)
2012 – 2,980 (17,880 total greyhounds born)
2013 – 2,736 (16,416 total greyhounds born)
2014 – 2,801 (16,806 total greyhounds born)
2015 – 2,709 (16,254 total greyhounds born)
2016 – 2,520 (15,120 total greyhounds born)

17,800 greyhounds were born in 2012
16,224 greyhounds were registered and tattooed in 2012
6,100 greyhounds were exported in to the UK in 2015 (c.3 years old is the racing age for
greyhounds)
203 greyhounds were euthanised in Ireland in 2015
10,377 greyhounds are unaccounted for in official statistics


All those figures are directly from the IGB/ICC & form part of the Greyhound Welfare Bill. Page 10 as you won't believe me.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireac...ll-2018_en.pdf

Your link does not work.

You state 203 greyhounds only were put down. That is half the figure claimed by animal welfare reports. It seems rather low. Great if it is that low.

Everywhere else says its 6k inc the very documentary that brought about this thread. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/whereabouts-of-6-000-greyhound-pups-a-year-unknown-igb-told-1.3939498

I assume since only 203 greyhounds you claim are put down the rest are rescued.

Any figures i have seen for export each year are less than one hundred.

It would stand to reason that the unaccounted for greyhounds are the ones rehomed to the uk etc or here and rescues just don't do a good job of tracing them?

Discodog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Your link does not work.

You state 203 greyhounds only were put down. That is half the figure claimed by animal welfare reports. It seems rather low. Great if it is that low.

Everywhere else says its 6k inc the very documentary that brought about this thread. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/whereabouts-of-6-000-greyhound-pups-a-year-unknown-igb-told-1.3939498

I assume since only 203 greyhounds you claim are put down the rest are rescued.

Any figures i have seen for export each year are less than one hundred.

It would stand to reason that the unaccounted for greyhounds are the ones rehomed to the uk etc or here and rescues just don't do a good job of tracing them?

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/libraryResearch/2018/2018-10-24_bill-digest-greyhound-racing-bill-2018_en.pdf

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

Litters registered (ICC average 6* pups per litter):
2010 – 3,003 (18,018 total greyhounds born)
2011 – 3,272 (19,632 total greyhounds born)
2012 – 2,980 (17,880 total greyhounds born)
2013 – 2,736 (16,416 total greyhounds born)
2014 – 2,801 (16,806 total greyhounds born)
2015 – 2,709 (16,254 total greyhounds born)
2016 – 2,520 (15,120 total greyhounds born)

17,800 greyhounds were born in 2012
16,224 greyhounds were registered and tattooed in 2012
6,100 greyhounds were exported in to the UK in 2015 (c.3 years old is the racing age for
greyhounds)
203 greyhounds were euthanised in Ireland in 2015
10,377 greyhounds are unaccounted for in official statistics



All those figures are directly from the IGB/ICC & form part of the Greyhound Welfare Bill. Page 10 as you won't believe me.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireac...ll-2018_en.pdf

What about the number used for coursing? How many were used for breeding? How many kept as pets? Have you a source for the rest of your figures? Page 10 only gives the numbers of litters and a guesstimate of numbers of live pups along with the numbers surrendered/or PTS.

Snugglebunnies

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Why do you come across as indignant that you had to pay for neutering and a donation? A rescue is a charity that relies on public donations. Nobody should be picking up the tab for rehoming your greyhound but you. Do you realise how much it costs to keep that greyhound for months and months until they can be sent to a ned home abroad, which also has to be paid for.

True. But i am being serious here. Most people who do the work are voluntary and a few have salaries sometimes high salaries. Where the money is allocated is not always transparent.

And the voluntary work is of questionable quality.

For instance I had a friend that volunteered to take a cat recently had a leg amputated. He didn't have a flat that was suitable (why he volunteered for it I don't know) but he took the cat to his parents home. And subsequently LOST it for three days. It escaped. My mother caught it for him in a cat trap eventually she set up in our garden because he kept coming to our house.

His stitched had become infected by that time though. The was ok in the end but it really didn't need to be so complicated.

Its really not good enough. Probably if he had been honest about his home situation they wouldn't have let him foster in the first place.

The cat didn't need to go through that. That is the DSPCA by the way it was totally irresponsible of them. The cat could have easily died but thankfully it was nothing more than infected stitches and a scary three days. It still didn't need to be that way though.

He acts as a foster home for dogs etc too. He only lives in a bedsit. I am not sure how he does it. I guess he brings them to his parents sometimes i dunno. It's kind of weird because when my brother asked why he didn't want a permanent pet he said it was because he didn't have the space for them. But apparently for fostering its ok.

I think yeah I am a little indignant at the self righteousness of some of the animal charities TBH. For the standard of care they give and the knowledge they have they should be a lot more HUMBLE.

So it's animal charities fault that your friend lied about his ability to look after an injured cat, lost it and nearly killed it? Sounds like your friends fault to me!

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

What about the number used for coursing?

You can research that

gozunda

Igotadose wrote: »

Thanks for changing your position from earlier to agree with the data presented...
Should it be banned? It seems simply as an exercise in cruelty for a minute segment of society living vicariously through 'blood sports.' Pretty disgusting and something I don't believe the State should subsidize (there are something like 185 employees of the ICC paid by the overall IGB budget in Ireland.)

Tbh no one is agreeing with your peculiar take on the figures.

Firstly the figure as pointed out amounts to just 0.14% of all dogs raced. Those dogs are pts etc by vets and not necessarily at a race track.

And no neither is anyone defending any deaths - simply pointing out which is fact.

You also keep baraging random posters about coursing. Again the little I know about legal coursing is that it is not defined as a 'blood sport' - as the aim is not to kill anything.

Illegal coursing is something completely different and requires a serious gardai crackdown

From a quick look online - legal coursing clubs claim to manage and protect hares - something the illegal boys certainly do not.

Get rid of the legal ones and the criminals will have free reign if that's what you'd like.

Theres lots of things I think the state shouldn't subsidise. But I dont get to make those decisions for others. That is how it is.

Snugglebunnies

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Oh my god i have just seen this.



THIS DOG BELONGS TO ONE OF THE ANTI RACING PROTESTORS.

It's obviously emaciated.

First WHY does a woman who calls herself an animal rights activist have an emaciated dog and why is said dog at a protest when its obviously in NO condition to be there??

What on EARTH are these people playing at?

THAT looks like animal abuse to me.

You do realise that was a twelve year old greyhound right? Greyhound people obviously don't realise what an aged greyhound looks like because they don't keep them that long...

gozunda

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

GOZUNDA it says you have exceeded your message space. So thanks and keep her lit :P

@Gozunda

chxrst my bad. All fixed

ILoveYourVibes

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

You do realise that was a twelve year old greyhound right? Greyhound people obviously don't realise what an aged greyhound looks like because they don't keep them that long...

I don't know the person in question. Obviously you must.

It was a vet and a greyhound trainer that made the evaluation.


Old dogs can be hard keepers but it can be managed.

And of course trainers keep their dogs that long. Don't be silly.

Since you know the owner will you have a vet check the dog out?

Seriously if you saw a trainer with a dog like that you would be up in arms and you know it.

But you seem to feel protestors are above reproach and should be trusted implicitly despite very clear visual evidence to the contrary.

It kind of seems like you are even trying to convince yourself of some delusions.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

You can research that

I already know the number of thousands coursed. You need subtract that from your figure. Along with those used for breeding and kept as pets.

Any comments on my cost of breeding figures or the reason breeders wouldn’t register their pups?

Snugglebunnies

Deleted User wrote: »

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Why do you come across as indignant that you had to pay for neutering and a donation? A rescue is a charity that relies on public donations. Nobody should be picking up the tab for rehoming your greyhound but you. Do you realise how much it costs to keep that greyhound for months and months until they can be sent to a ned home abroad, which also has to be paid for.

My point is that they received a donation from me, one from the IGB and one from the adopter. No need for them to keep the dog for months and months. I kept her until her adoption was approved. I’m not alone in having done this. My donation covered much more than the transport costs and paperwork.

I work in a dog rescue. Actually many do stay for months and months until we can get them home abroad through other rescues. I know this, I literally look after these dogs 5 days a week. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong though.

ILoveYourVibes

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I work in a dog rescue. Actually many do stay for months and months until we can get them home abroad through other rescues. I know this, I literally look after these dogs 5 days a week. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong though.

Don't Identify which one to protect yourself. But can you say if its ISPCA affiliated or not?

Also what is the kill rate in the place you work at for healthy dogs?

Also it would be rare in rescues i have worked at for dogs to be kept on site for so long. I assume you foster out?

Also what percentage of the dogs there are greyhounds?

Well done by the way.

gozunda

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That much I would agree with.

I say what I see. I am usually right on the money too.

There are very few activists groups that don't have at least a few people who are a bit off the wall in their beliefs and attitudes. I think if you were being honest you would admit the same.
And I am friends with a lot of 'crazy' activists. Its not an insult. Its just an acceptance of their eccentricity. I wouldn't always trust what they say though.

Also for anyone wondering the people at the protest represented them perfectly the bad and the good.

^^^^This.

I cannot understand why we have some who keep on claiming there are no animal rights extremists involved in organising the current campaign.

Yes there are decent ordinary animal welfare groups like the Dogs Trust working with the IGB etc in helping to improve standards and thats a good thing. And also ordinary decent people concerned about what was presented on the RTE report...

But I do worry that many people who are genuinely concerned as to greyhound welfare etc are at risk of being led up the garden path by some of these animal rights groups. The fact that we have some denying what is evident is also worrying. At least in the UK - these groups generally dont hide behind others and are overt in their presence at such events etc.

ILoveYourVibes

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I work in a dog rescue. Actually many do stay for months and months until we can get them home abroad through other rescues. I know this, I literally look after these dogs 5 days a week. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong though.

Actually I have another question.


What do you in YOUR professional opinion think of the condition of this greyhound?

Snugglebunnies

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I work in a dog rescue. Actually many do stay for months and months until we can get them home abroad through other rescues. I know this, I literally look after these dogs 5 days a week. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong though.

I’m not saying that you’re wrong. But please give credit to those who do keep their greyhounds while awaiting adoption.

Snugglebunnies

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

You do realise that was a twelve year old greyhound right? Greyhound people obviously don't realise what an aged greyhound looks like because they don't keep them that long...

All the more reason to leave it at home in it’s bed.

Snugglebunnies

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

You do realise that was a twelve year old greyhound right? Greyhound people obviously don't realise what an aged greyhound looks like because they don't keep them that long...

I don't know the person in question. Obviously you must.

It was a vet and a greyhound trainer that made the evaluation.


Old dogs can be hard keepers but it can be managed.

And of course trainers keep their dogs that long. Don't be silly.

Since you know the owner will you have a vet check the dog out?

Seriously if you saw a trainer with a dog like that you would be up in arms and you know it.

But you seem to feel protestors are above reproach and should be trusted implicitly despite very clear visual evidence to the contrary.

It kind of seems like you are even trying to convince yourself of some delusions.

I don't know the owner, I did her about her getting abused by greyhound people over the dogs weight though despite the fact they they knew nothing about the dog.

ILoveYourVibes

gozunda wrote: »

As per boards ToU - no one is named. Details were on social media with verifying links.

Good lord !

Snugglebunnies

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I work in a dog rescue. Actually many do stay for months and months until we can get them home abroad through other rescues. I know this, I literally look after these dogs 5 days a week. I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong though.

Don't Identify which one to protect yourself. But can you say if its ISPCA affiliated or not?

Also what is the kill rate in the place you work at for healthy dogs?

Also it would be rare in rescues i have worked at for dogs to be kept on site for so long. I assume you foster out?

Also what percentage of the dogs there are greyhounds?

Well done by the way.

It's not ispca affiliated. We have never put a healthy dog down, they stay with us for as long as it takes to find them a home.

It's not that rare unfortunately as we keep dogs that are not deemed desirable for as long as it takes. There is fostering by a small team of vetted people.

I'd say about 70-80% are greyhounds.

Snugglebunnies

Deleted User wrote: »

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

You do realise that was a twelve year old greyhound right? Greyhound people obviously don't realise what an aged greyhound looks like because they don't keep them that long...

All the more reason to leave it at home in it’s bed.

Old dogs should not be resigned to a life indoors?

Snugglebunnies

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Old dogs should not be resigned to a life indoors?

Looking at some of the poor misfortune greyhounds (and other dogs) panting and, in one case lying flat out on the concrete, doesn’t say animal lovers. The very opposite. Inflicting misery on them is to be abhorrent no matter their age.