RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 3:58pm

Discodog wrote: »

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Some of us have been promised reform for decades & it never happens. So why should we trust in reform now ?

You don't think Greyhound racing has improved in animal welfare standards since the 50s?

Because it really has.

Discodog · 28-07-2019 3:59pm

jackboy wrote: »

It is quite common for racing greyhounds to lose hair on their back legs, it doesn’t mean there are health issues. From the picture there does not seem to be inflammation or skin issues with the dog.

The poster doesn't think so either but it was posted to prove the point that you & others made a judgement about a dog & a human based totally on a photograph.

Discodog · 28-07-2019 4:00pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

You don't think Greyhound racing has improved in animal welfare standards since the 50s?

Because it really has.

I wasn't around then. I am saying in the past 30 years.

strandroad · 28-07-2019 4:01pm

jackboy wrote: »

It is quite common for racing greyhounds to lose hair on their back legs, it doesn’t mean there are health issues. From the picture there does not seem to be inflammation or skin issues with the dog.

I think the overall point is that dogs can look strange in pictures. I have some of my own looking like a complete skeleton in one frame and normal in another: a difference between his full exhale and inhale after a fun run. People who don't know what kennel coat is are sometimes shocked seeing it too. Any old (10+) greyhound I ever seen looked very skinny. They often have bald thighs. This fellas marks might look like mange or scald scars to someone but who knows what they are.

Igotadose · 28-07-2019 4:03pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Those were the figures discodog was going on and gave me. Don't tell me. I didn't post them.

But, they're from the IGB. You can verify that yourself. Doesn't that mean they're true?

Really feels like we're in some kind of rabbit hole, where the authorized government authority produces statistics on deaths due to injury at tracks, whelpings per year, etc. and we quote them, and then "NOT TRUE NOT TRUE" is shouted from the ditches. Or, "It's a tiny percent" implying, well, that it's o.k. that it's a tiny percent. Heck, race more dogs and it'll mean more deaths at the track, but as long as the percentage is low, it's o.k. because reasons. Oh, and the anti-reform types don't hesitate to misquote and make up statistics.

IGB had enough opportunities and money to clean house and haven't. Thank goodness for the RTE documentary.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 4:04pm

Discodog wrote: »

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I wasn't around then. I am saying in the past 30 years.

You don't think racing has improved in animal welfare in the last 30 yrs?

strandroad · 28-07-2019 4:04pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

A lot of people IN the greyhound racing industry don't want to admit they account for a huge burden on animal rescues.

Burden on animal rescues is a side (but real) issue.
Industry producing thousands of surplus dogs by definition, and then killing some/most of them, is what is seen as crux of the issue.

If you can't see that there is no point in discussing anything with you.

jackboy · 28-07-2019 4:06pm

Discodog wrote: »

The poster doesn't think so either but it was posted to prove the point that you & others made a judgement about a dog & a human based totally on a photograph.

The dog in the other picture was malnourished and in poor condition, that is a fact.

I never said anything about the human.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 4:09pm

strandroad wrote: »

Burden on animal rescues is a side (but real) issue.
Industry producing thousands of surplus dogs by definition, and then killing some/most of them, is what is seen as crux of the issue.

Its the same issue. Its just the one issue.

Sorry i don't go gooey eyed over these things. I am not as emotional as people think.

Discodog · 28-07-2019 4:10pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

You don't think racing has improved in animal welfare in the last 30 yrs?

I have had personal contact with racing administrators both here & in the UK. I have read countless reports, made countless submissions & attended a lot of meeting including with Senators, TD's etc.

I have seen no acknowledgement, no real desire or program to address the issues. I have met some totally stubborn, blinkered people who rely on their influential friends.

There will come a time when we will look back in disbelief at what was allowed in the name of sport.

strandroad · 28-07-2019 4:14pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its the same issue. Its just the one issue.

Sorry i don't go gooey eyed over these things. I am not as emotional as people think.

No it's not. Burden on animal rescues is a relatively good problem to have, at least you get them alive. It's not what turns peoples' stomachs about the industry. Mass killing and lack of support in rehoming are not the same thing.

I am putting you on ignore, I don't know what the problem is with you, but your posts seem completely out there and erratic to me.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 4:18pm

Discodog wrote: »

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I have had personal contact with racing administrators both here & in the UK. I have read countless reports, made countless submissions & attended a lot of meeting including with Senators, TD's etc.

I have seen no acknowledgement, no real desire or program to address the issues. I have met some totally stubborn, blinkered people who rely on their influential friends.

There will come a time when we will look back in disbelief at what was allowed in the name of sport.

Firstly lets talk about Ireland.

Secondly I acknowledge your frustration. But have you ever thought that maybe they don't want to meet or engage with you because of the way you approach things? 50% of a communication problem is always yours.

I could totally understand why someone in the IGB even a decent person would not want to deal with some people from animal rights organizations. They can be difficult people.

I mean if you look at it this way.

Those two sides in that video. How are THEY meant to communicate with each other? It kind of seems like they don't even want to communicate with each other. They just want to attack each other.

Is your side ready and willing to engage?

You come off to me as blinkered and single minded. I know you don't feel you are but you do. I possibly do to you.

I am trying to be neutral and most of all OPEN MINDED.

I don't know that other people on both sides could be described as open minded.

Secondly I DO acknowledge the industry has a powerful lobby in govt.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 4:21pm

Discodog wrote: »

I suggest you ask on their websites. There aren't any here

You aren't an animal rights activist?

gozunda · 28-07-2019 4:22pm

strandroad wrote: »

Burden on animal rescues is a side (but real) issue.
Industry producing thousands of surplus dogs by definition, and then killing some/most of them, is what is seen as crux of the issue.
If you can't see that there is no point in discussing anything with you.

The thing is by targeting just one breed of ALL the surplus dogs in this country - the current campaign is evidently seriously biased. And no that's not whataboutery. There needs to one unified approach or none. Piecemeal changes for one breed or other is ridiculous and makes no logical sense . And if you want to totally ban greyhound racing and not allow improvements and appropriate standards (which many here seem to be totally up for btw) then you better be prepared to ban all kinds of animal use as well.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 4:22pm

strandroad wrote: »

I am putting you on ignore,

I think that is for the best. Please feel welcome to continue to post though.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 4:24pm

gozunda wrote: »

The thing is by targeting just one breed of ALL the surplus dogs in this country - the current campaign is evidently seriously biased. And no that's not whataboutery. There needs to one unified approach or none. Piecemeal changes for one breed or other is ridiculous and makes no logical al sense . And if you want to totally ban greyhound racing and not allow improvements and appropriate standards (which many here seem to be totally up for btw) then you better be prepared to ban all kinds of animal use as well.

Agreed terrible things happen to all breeds.

Discodog · 28-07-2019 4:24pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You aren't an animal rights activist?

Sorry to disappoint you but ...........No

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 4:25pm

Discodog wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint you but ...........No

I love unexpected answers.

You just hate racing?

Discodog · 28-07-2019 4:31pm

gozunda wrote: »

The thing is by targeting just one breed of ALL the surplus dogs in this country - the current campaign is evidently seriously biased. And no that's not whataboutery. There needs to one unified approach or none. Piecemeal changes for one breed or other is ridiculous and makes no logical al sense . And if you want to totally ban greyhound racing and not allow improvements and appropriate standards (which many here seem to be totally up for btw) then you better be prepared to ban all kinds of animal use as well.

It's exactly what it is. Within a few years no unwanted domestic dog will be killed unless they can't be rehomed for defined reasons. There is no evidence that the same will apply to Greyhounds. There has been a massive campaign for dog welfare & great successes by the rescues. Dogs Trust alone have rehomed over 8000. Meanwhile nothing is done to reduce the appalling number of Greyhound deaths. They are the priority now.

Discodog · 28-07-2019 4:32pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I love unexpected answers.

You just hate racing?

You love that word.

I oppose anyone or organisation that kills healthy dogs.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 4:37pm

Discodog wrote: »

You love that word.

I oppose anyone or organisation that kills healthy dogs.

Admirable stance. I agree with you so do I.
The ISPCA does. And so does PETA.

Perhaps they are not so much of a root of an issue as the IGB is though.

gozunda · 28-07-2019 4:42pm

Lots has been done for homing and rehoming greyhounds. The Irish Retired Greyhound Trust, The Dogs Trust (which interestingly have been both working together on improving greyhound welfare) plus from my own knowledge there is a private charity in Cork which I believe is doing stellar work, and I have learned here that yes there are greyhounds who do retire with their owners and I'm sure that's just the bits I know.

So lots of good things happening* imo. And it looks like things will improve further with the new approved directives etc. The only ones who are saying nothing is happening are those that evidently dont like racing no matter what. And I'm sorry but they don't get to make the new rules just because of that.

We need one unified approach to the problem of surplus / abandoned dogs across the country and not picking pieces or breeds which may suit peoples likes or dislikes.

Saying otherwise is indeed whataboutery.

* Over 1000 greyhounds rehomed last year by just one of the organisations involved.

28-07-2019 4:47pm

Discodog wrote: »

The most common question was "do you race her". But the IGB will give a generous €50 towards the cost of a €150 spay :rolleyes:

I have been criticised for being too negative & not offering solutions, so here's mine:

Every owner should deposit €500 into an independently operated fund for each puppy. A vet certifies the registration when they chip the dog & enters the details on an accessible database. Once a year, when the dog goes for a routine check, vaccs etc the Vet updates the record.

When the dog is rehomed & this is absolutely confirmed then the owner gets a refund, including interest, minus any rehoming costs.

A deposit per greyhound on top of the €1,500 it costs to rear a pup to racing age is never going to happen. Maybe a breeding fee per litter.
A control steward earmarks and microchips pups at 12 weeks. This is kept on a database called Micro Dog. For the past year the ICC have to be informed of the whereabouts of a dog if it leaves your care for any reason.
2% of all winning prize money goes to the retired greyhound fund. This should be increased to 5%

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 4:53pm

gozunda wrote: »

Lots has been done for homing and rehoming greyhounds. The Irish Retired Greyhound Trust, The Dogs Trust (which interestingly have been both working together on improving greyhound welfare) plus from my own knowledge there is a private charity in Cork which I believe is doing stellar work, and I have learned here that yes there are greyhounds who do retire with their owners and I'm sure that's just the bits I know.

So lots of good things happening imo. And it looks like things will improve further with the new approved directives etc. The only ones who are saying nothing is happening are those that evidently dont like racing no matter what. And I'm sorry but they don't get to make the new rules just because of that.

We need one unified approach to the problem of surplus / abandoned dogs across the country and not picking pieces or breeds which may suit peoples likes or dislikes.

Saying otherwise is indeed whataboutery.

Its definitely improving every five yrs to ten yrs.

dudara · 28-07-2019 5:09pm

@ILoveYourVibes - I have edited several posts to remove the name of the rescue that you named. Please do not name organisations in such a manner. If you believe that the care they offer is substandard, there are official channels through which you can complain. Do not do it here on Boards.

dudara

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 5:17pm

dudara wrote: »

@ILoveYourVibes - I have edited several posts to remove the name of the rescue that you named. Please do not name organisations in such a manner. If you believe that the care they offer is substandard, there are official channels through which you can complain. Do not do it here on Boards.

dudara

Sorry.

Discodog · 28-07-2019 5:22pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Admirable stance. I agree with you so do I.
The ISPCA does. And so does PETA.

Perhaps they are not so much of a root of an issue as the IGB is though.

One is a foreign organisation that has nothing to do with this country or this thread.

The other struggles with ridiculous under funding to prevent animal cruelty. The ISPCA did get mixed up with Dog Pounds several years ago with good intentions. They are no longer involved.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 5:27pm

Discodog wrote: »

One is a foreign organisation that has nothing to do with this country or this thread.

The other struggles with ridiculous under funding to prevent animal cruelty. The ISPCA did get mixed up with Dog Pounds several years ago with good intentions. They are no longer involved.

They still regularly put down a high number of healthy animals.

Its not to say the IGB is let off the hook etc. They are at the root of an issue.

Peta frequently has a go at Ireland for various animal issues inc greyhound racing.

Igotadose · 28-07-2019 5:34pm

gozunda wrote: »

The thing is by targeting just one breed of ALL the surplus dogs in this country - the current campaign is evidently seriously biased. And no that's not whataboutery. There needs to one unified approach or none. Piecemeal changes for one breed or other is ridiculous and makes no logical sense . And if you want to totally ban greyhound racing and not allow improvements and appropriate standards (which many here seem to be totally up for btw) then you better be prepared to ban all kinds of animal use as well.

Only one breed is directly subsidized by the taxpayer. Why ignore that? It then makes logical sense that the initial focus is on improving the lot for one breed where we, the taxpayer, can directly influence those profiting from the use of that breed.

There doesn't need to be a unified approach initially. Once the greyhound situation is worked out, lessons learned can be adopted to the plight of other breeds. However, it's critically important to not lose momentum brought about from the documentary.

Discodog · 28-07-2019 5:38pm

gozunda wrote: »

Lots has been done for homing and rehoming greyhounds. The Irish Retired Greyhound Trust, The Dogs Trust (which interestingly have been both working together on improving greyhound welfare) plus from my own knowledge there is a private charity in Cork which I believe is doing stellar work, and I have learned here that yes there are greyhounds who do retire with their owners and I'm sure that's just the bits I know.

So lots of good things happening* imo. And it looks like things will improve further with the new approved directives etc. The only ones who are saying nothing is happening are those that evidently dont like racing no matter what. And I'm sorry but they don't get to make the new rules just because of that.

We need one unified approach to the problem of surplus / abandoned dogs across the country and not picking pieces or breeds which may suit peoples likes or dislikes.

Saying otherwise is indeed whataboutery.

* Over 1000 greyhounds rehomed last year by just one of the organisations involved.

So we can look forward to the RTE Program Greyhounds Revisited which will find that everything is rosy & no dogs die :rolleyes:

You keep quoting Dogs Trust & their videos. This is an open letter from their website - I have highlighted a few points in bold (my bold not theirs). It's hardly a ringing endorsement of racing.

Sir,

The welfare members of the International Greyhound Forum, Dogs Trust Ireland (Chair), ISPCA, Irish Blue Cross, Paws Animal Rescue, Dogs Trust UK and Greyhound Trust, are appalled and deeply upset, but sadly not surprised to see some of the barbaric practices that the Greyhounds, featured on the RTE Investigates programme, had to endure in countries that they are exported to, as well as our own country.

For many years we have been campaigning strongly against unacceptable practices such as intensive, wasteful breeding programmes, cruelty and mistreatment and the abandonment of dogs past their racing peak.

We are incredibly disappointed that our proposed amendment regarding a ban on the export of Greyhounds to countries that do not meet minimum animal welfare standards, which was tabled by Deputies Maureen O’Sullivan and Tommy Broughan in the D, was not included in the Greyhound Racing Act 2019. Despite the government’s obvious abhorrence of the cruelty exposed on the RTInvestigates programme, this opportunity to ban the export of greyhounds was not taken up by Fine Gael or Fianna F when voting on proposed amendments to the Greyhound Racing Act 2019.

We will continue to fight to ensure that the welfare of Greyhounds is held in the highest regard by the greyhound racing industry to protect these vulnerable and sentient animals. We are currently reaching out to TDs and Ministers to discuss how we can best protect our Irish greyhounds.

From,

The welfare members of the International Greyhound Forum (IGF)

https://www.dogstrust.ie/whats-happening/news/letter-to-editor

RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

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