RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

mikeym

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-greyhound-board-care-centres-4743615-Jul2019/?fbclid=IwAR03KEcNApH0VcQl5zf2gZ4ubghJVytCK0uR8I7pe2xqBGB4NuXsx6bNrl8

THE IRISH GREYHOUND Board (IGB) has announced that it is seeking interest for the provision of greyhound care centres.

This measure was one of a range of proposals discussed at the IGB’s appearance at the Oireachtas Committee for Agriculture, Food and the Marine earlier this month.

The IGB has said the proposal is intended to help the transition of racing greyhounds from the track to retirement.

“The intended model of the care centre will provide high standard accommodation for greyhounds and contain house-training facilities to allow greyhounds to adapt to a range of different home environment,” the IGB said.

Visitor facilities will also form part of the care centre where potential adopters can become familiar with greyhounds prior to making the decision to adopt from the care centre.

A designated veterinary practitioner will also be required to provide 24 hour veterinary cover in the care centres.

I wont believe it until I see it, its more handier to ship the dogs abroad or to pay €10 to get the dog put down inhumanely.

gozunda

strandroad wrote: »

Actually those scenes were hardly mentioned in conversations I witnessed at work, and there were many. Perhaps people couldn't watch, or perhaps they were more like "China being China", I don't know. I didn't watch this part myself, far too squeamish...

It evidently stuck in a lot of peoples ideas about the show. A while bunch of the placards shown in the footage of the protests were of various photos and slogans about China.

strandroad

gozunda wrote: »

It evidently stuck in a lot of peoples ideas about the show. A while bunch of the placards shown in the footage of the protests were of various photos and slogans about China.

Many more of the "you bet they die" variety though.

gozunda

Igotadose wrote: »

Which other interests get taxpayer subsidy? Not doubting it, seems interesting.

And, remember that greyhounds are overbred to support the racing industry. On the taxpayers dime. A unified approach is just 'perfect being the enemy of the good.' Overbreeding of other dogs doesn't exonerate the taxpayer-funded greyhound racing (and, seemingly, exporting) business.

As a taxpayer, one would hope you'd get a say in how your taxes are used. I realize it's not easy, but we can pressure our TD's, I've reached out to mine already since seeing the documentary.

As MaryAnne detailed it correctly - Its money set aside for sport and comes from betting . And its not the only sport which receives funds in this way.

I would disagree that greyhounds are being bred to 'support the racing industry'. Afaik greyhounds are bred by individuals etc. The money which goes to the various organisations is not giving to the guy breeding and raising one or more litter of pups.

Again a unified approach is not "perfect being the enemy of the good." Instead it tackles all the issues common to all breeds of dog - irrespective of breed. Over beeding of dogs biggest issue is not a 'tax issue'. However all such issues cost the state resources and funds with regards to welfare, wardens and equipping and running pounds and also loss of revenue with regard to licensing etc. I understand you dont like greyhound racing and would like any monies go elsewhere. But that's not the main issue here tbh.

gozunda

strandroad wrote: »

Many more of the "you bet they die" variety though.

No they were the main visual ones which caught my eye looking at the coverage... Here an example.
https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.2634707.1462369657!/image/image.jpg

strandroad

gozunda wrote: »

No they were the main visual ones which caught my eye looking at the coverage... Here an example.
https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.2634707.1462369657!/image/image.jpg

I was there. There were perhaps 4 or 5 about China or Asia, among many dozens of placards and posters. You can find and review photo galleries if you don't believe me.

gozunda

strandroad wrote: »

I was there. There were perhaps 4 or 5 about China or Asia, among many dozens of placards and posters. You can find and review photo galleries if you don't believe me.

Yeah but its often the graphic pictures which catch the eye. And the ones that the cameras kept zooming in on. People often don't read printed signs in my experience.

klaaaz

mikeym wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-greyhound-board-care-centres-4743615-Jul2019/?fbclid=IwAR03KEcNApH0VcQl5zf2gZ4ubghJVytCK0uR8I7pe2xqBGB4NuXsx6bNrl8

I wont believe it until I see it, its more handier to ship the dogs abroad or to pay €10 to get the dog put down inhumanely.

Agree.

They'd want to be quite large centres and quite numerous to cater for the 6,000-10,000 greyhounds that are killed every year for being too slow to win a race. And those centres will be funded by the taxpayer to support breeders who must be very powerful people to get an ear of government funding for their slow dogs.

gozunda

klaaaz wrote: »

Agree.They'd want to be quite large centres and quite numerous to cater for the 6,000-10,000 greyhounds that are killed every year for being too slow to win a race. And those centres will be funded by the taxpayer to support breeders who must be very powerful people to get an ear of government funding for their slow dogs.

To be fair LKlaaz - it also already been firmly established in this thread that currently there is no evidence to indicate that disputed figures of 6000 (never mind '10,000' sic) "are killed" anymore than there the 30,000 pets dogs bred, sold in this county and are unaccounted for being "killed"

I can see why it suits some to repeatedly make that claim. However it does not stand up to scrutiny no matter how much anyone keeps repeating it.

I'm no expert but even I have learned that there is no 'tax payers' money involved. Funding is derived from ring fenced levies on betting which is used to provide a subsidy to a number of bodies. The same do not provide any breeders of dogs with financial support afaik.

Anyone can lobby the government - it certainly doesnt mean they are going to get what they want.

xckjoo

Nobody has proven 6k dogs are not killed every year. Best IGB can do is say they don't know what happened to them, which is no better. Until they can provide full traceability from birth to grave, I see no reason not to assume the worst. Onus of proof is on IGB+ICC, not the rest of us.

"Ring fenced" tax is still tax that could be spent on other things so it is taken from something else. Unless it's only money that was bet on greyhound racing (doubtful).

As I keep saying, IGB/ICC are the ones letting the good greyhound owners down, not the general public who don't want to see animals suffer.

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

Nobody has proven 6k dogs are not killed every year. Best IGB can do is say they don't know what happened to them, which is no better. Until they can provide full traceability from birth to grave, I see no reason not to assume the worst. Onus of proof is on IGB+ICC, not the rest of us.

"Ring fenced" tax is still tax that could be spent on other things so it is taken from something else. Unless it's only money that was bet on greyhound racing (doubtful).

As I keep saying, IGB/ICC are the ones letting the good greyhound owners down, not the general public who don't want to see animals suffer.

I’ve seen numerous posts on social media from greyhound owners who have kept their retirees. Just because we didn’t notify the stud book doesn’t mean that they were killed.
I don’t think that the report used in the RTÉ program used the word “killed”. I think unaccounted for or unexplained were used.

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

I’ve seen numerous posts on social media from greyhound owners who have kept their retirees. Just because we didn’t notify the stud book doesn’t mean that they were killed.
I don’t think that the report used in the RTÉ program used the word “killed”. I think unaccounted for or unexplained were used.

Ya I accept that. My point really is that unless the IGB/ICC can provide full traceability, they can't complain if people assume the worst for the unaccounted for animals. Similar levels of traceability has existed in many other industries for decades. TBH I think they're exploiting the name of the good owners to allow them to sit back and do nothing as long as they can. If you look back through this thread, you'll see most people posting here care about the welfare of the dogs, but it's degenerated into "us" vs "them" and childish mud slinging.

ILoveYourVibes

xckjoo wrote: »

Ya I accept that. My point really is that unless the IGB/ICC can provide full traceability, they can't complain if people assume the worst for the unaccounted for animals. Similar levels of traceability has existed in many other industries for decades. TBH I think they're exploiting the name of the good owners to allow them to sit back and do nothing as long as they can. If you look back through this thread, you'll see most people posting here care about the welfare of the dogs, but it's degenerated into "us" vs "them" and childish mud slinging.

Not even rescues can provide that.

If you had to get a passport for each dog with a list of owners that had to be contacted etc to get a license maybe.

xckjoo

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Not even rescues can provide that.

Rescues have nothing to do with this conversation.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Not even rescues can provide that.

If you had to get a passport for each dog with a list of owners that had to be contacted etc to get a license maybe.

Greyhounds already have an identity book. It lists their pedigree, earmark, microchip, age, colour, trials, races, weight, owner(s) etc. The new regulations requiring an owner to notify the stud book when a greyhound leaves their care, retires from racing, is used for breeding, dies or is surrendered for rehoming, will ensure total traceability from birth to death.

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

Greyhounds already have an identity book. It lists their pedigree, age, colour, trials, races, weight, owner(s) etc. The new regulations requiring an owner to notify the stud book when a greyhound leaves their care, retires from racing, is used for breeding, dies or is surrendered for rehoming, will ensure total traceability from birth to death.

Any idea of the timeline for when all dogs will be fully traceable? Will it cover existing dogs or only those born after it has passed?

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

Any idea of the timeline for when all dogs will be fully traceable? Will it cover existing dogs or only those born after it has passed?

It’s in force now.

I know that it stands to reason, but it never occurred to me to notify the stud book when I retired a greyhound or even when one died. That’s why so many were unaccounted for.

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s in force now.

I know that it stands to reason, but it never occurred to me to notify the stud book when I retired a greyhound or even when one died. That’s why so many were unaccounted for.

Ya it's not your place to think of it. Your busy minding your dog and nobody volunteers for extra paperwork :pac:. Should have been pushed from above about 10 years ago though. I'm still under the belief that the IGB/ICC should be under a microscope for the next few years until they prove they've got the welfare of the dogs at the centre of their business model. Again, it's their responsibility to weed out the scumbags, not yours

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

Ya it's not your place to think of it. Your busy minding your dog and nobody volunteers for extra paperwork :pac:. Should have been pushed from above about 10 years ago though. I'm still under the belief that the IGB/ICC should be under a microscope for the next few years until they prove they've got the welfare of the dogs at the centre of their business model. Again, it's their responsibility to weed out the scumbags, not yours

I’m pretty sure that their every move will be scrutinized from now on.

I also think that the Stud Book should be totally independent from either coursing or track. Same goes for control stewards and drug testing.

ILoveYourVibes

I found this really interesting.

On the Dogs Trust adaption page there are NO greyhounds up for adoption. There are 2 salukis if you want to count them.

On the DSPCA adoption page there are 2 greyhounds up for adoption.

On the madra adotion page there is currently ONE greyhound for adoption.

On the ASH adoption page there are TWO greyhound types for adoption ( i am counting a lurcher)

On TAGS which on its website says its the biggest dog rehoming site in Ireland there are 11 greyhound types for adoption ( I am counting salukis greyhound crosses lurchers and whippets).

On the Cara rescue site there are two greyhound types.

On the dogs in distress website there are no greyhounds no lurchers no whippets etc up for adoption.

On the rescue animals Ireland website there are no greyhounds no lurchers no whippets up for adoption.

One the ISPCA website there are 3 greyhound types 3 lurchers one whippet and one saluki for adoption. And one puppy i thought looked slightly greyhoundish so i am adding him.


On the greyhound rescue site it says

In the years for 2010 to 2015:2,896 greyhounds were surrendered to Irish Dog Pounds.

That is less than 600 dogs per year.

The Irish greyhound trust by the way currently has FOUR greyhounds up for adoption on their site. https://www.irgt.ie/how-to-adopt/available-greyhounds/

Checking all the rehoming pages on all the sites I don't see huge numbers of greyhounds in comparison to other breeds. In fact the most common type seems to he collie types or crosses and mongrels.

So unless rescues are not putting greyhounds up on their adoption pages for some reason something isn't right here.

I am not doubting the Greyhound rescue sites numbers. But its a far cry from the thousands etc.

It also is in keeping with my personal experience of helping in a rescue in which maybe 20% of the dogs might be greyhounds.

I have checked the biggest dogs rescues and some smaller ones and rescues that only cater to dogs and rescues that cater to all animals.

gozunda

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I found this really interesting.

On the Dogs Trust adaption page there are NO greyhounds up for adoption. There are 2 salukis if you want to count them.

On the DSPCA adoption page there are 2 greyhounds up for adoption.

On the madra adotion page there is currently ONE greyhound for adoption.

On the ASH adoption page there are TWO greyhound types for adoption ( i am counting a lurcher)

On TAGS which on its website says its the biggest dog rehoming site in Ireland there are 11 greyhound types for adoption ( I am counting salukis greyhound crosses lurchers and whippets).

On the Cara rescue site there are two greyhound types.

On the dogs in distress website there are no greyhounds no lurchers no whippets etc up for adoption.

On the rescue animals Ireland website there are no greyhounds no lurchers no whippets up for adoption.

One the ISPCA website there are 3 greyhound types 3 lurchers one whippet and one saluki for adoption. And one puppy i thought looked slightly greyhoundish so i am adding him.


On the greyhound rescue site it says

That is less than 600 dogs per year.

Checking all the rehoming pages on all the sites I don't see huge numbers of greyhounds in comparison to other breeds. In fact the most common type seems to he collie types or crosses and mongrels.

So unless rescues are not putting greyhounds up on their adoption pages for some reason something isn't right here.

Are you saying that a number of charities / rescues are claiming that they are rehoming large amounts of greyhounds or ?

From what I've learned the Irish Retired Greyhound Trust (working with the IGB) detailed they rehomed over a 1000 greyhounds last year. There is also a rescue in Cork (also working with the IGB) that deals with rehoming greyhounds (not 100% sure of the name tbh). I think Limerick Aninal Welfare (an independent rescue group) may rehome them as well. Are there others?

klaaaz

Vibes, some of them don't have up to date websites on what dogs are available. Facebook is more real time for those rescues than what's on their websites.

ILoveYourVibes

gozunda wrote: »

Are you saying that a number of charities / rescues are claiming that they are rehoming large amounts of greyhounds or ?

From what I've learned the Irish Retired Greyhound Trust (working with the IGB) detailed they rehomed over a 1000 greyhounds last year. There is also a rescue in Cork (also working with the IGB) that deals with rehoming greyhounds (not sure of he name tbh). I think Limerick Aninal Welfare may rehome them as well. Are there others?

I am not saying that. I can't say that. I don't know.


I did work the DSPCA website though ( i don't currently) and I was responsible for writing the bios for animals up for adoption along with others. We tired to keep it as up to date as possible. It does fall behind sometimes though. Its all volunteers you see. But we really did do our best though. The DSPCA in recent years has tried to make photos of the animals more professional for example. You have to show them at their best light.

According to the greyhound rescue website (not the retired greyhound website) over a period of five years 2,896 greyhounds were surrendered to Irish Dog Pounds. That works out at about 600 dogs per year. As far as I can see they don't rescue or adopt dogs.

https://grai.ie/greyhound-numbers/


Currently the Retired Irish Greyhound Trust site has four greyhounds up for adoption.

https://www.irgt.ie/how-to-adopt/available-greyhounds/

But saying they have exactly 4 greyhounds up for adoption on their site now doesn't exclude that they COULD have rehomed 1000 greyhounds in the last year. I don't know. I can only say what i see.

But my findings online are in keeping with my personal experience of volunteering in a Shelter. Lots of collies maybe 20% greyhounds.

ILoveYourVibes

Also one must note that is only greyhounds available for adoption they may have other greyhounds not suitable for adoption because of health or temperament reasons.

Now also we had a previous poster who claimed she worked in a shelter that had 80% greyhounds. I can't doubt her veracity of course. But i can't find a similar picture in any other rescue.

ILoveYourVibes

gozunda wrote: »

Are you saying that a number of charities / rescues are claiming that they are rehoming large amounts of greyhounds or ?

From what I've learned the Irish Retired Greyhound Trust (working with the IGB) detailed they rehomed over a 1000 greyhounds last year. There is also a rescue in Cork (also working with the IGB) that deals with rehoming greyhounds (not 100% sure of the name tbh). I think Limerick Aninal Welfare (an independent rescue group) may rehome them as well. Are there others?

Limerick Animal Welfare currently have no greyhounds for adoption up on their website at least.

I want to be CLEAR the vast majority of these rescues have made NO claims as to the numbers of dogs of any breed they have rehomed. Very few of them involve themselves in campaigns etc.

http://www.limerickanimalwelfare.ie/home.aspx

ILoveYourVibes

HUGS homes for greyhounds says they keep their adoptions very up to date on their FB page.

They deal in ONLY greyhounds and they currently have 32 dogs available for adoption.

By the way i am VERY impressed with the HUGS Fb page.

ILoveYourVibes

klaaaz wrote: »

Vibes, some of them don't have up to date websites on what dogs are available. Facebook is more real time for those rescues than what's on their websites.

I have been checking their FB sites.

Also it would be very difficult to tell as the Irish Retired Greyhound site seems to take one picture of the same dog over and over.

They need a better social media team.

Also according to the Irish greyhound recuse association only 600 dogs per year are rescued.

The Irish retired greyhound association according to gozunda claims to rescue 1000 dogs per year.

If they are going to make these claims they have to make certain they are correct.

Also the assertion that in rescues that rehome all dog breeds 80& are greyhounds isn't holding up for most rescues.

ILoveYourVibes

Ok i have checked the REALLY confusing Irish retired greyhound page.

They appear to have 26 greyhounds available for rehoming. They say the page is up to date.

It was VERY hard to count as they have taken multiple pictures of the same dogs.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/greyhoundsaspets.rgt.IRL/photos/?tab=album&album_id=867348506677584&ref=page_internal

They say

Album is up to date as of 24/07/2019

ILoveYourVibes

For the entire month of may in the DSPCA there were TWO greyhound types.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/dspca/photos/?tab=album&album_id=10154660857700678&ref=page_internal

From their FB page.

By the way please people are free to check for themselves.

Also as i said before the DSPCA website is as up to date as their FB.

ILoveYourVibes

Where are these thousands of greyhounds in rescues?

Have checked the Irish Dog trust website and the FB page with photos going back years.

Very few greyhounds.