RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

ILoveYourVibes

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I just cannot face palm enough at your posts.

You think greyhounds won't gain weight at 6000 cals a day and on rest.

When you see and underweight dog you believe anything the owner tells you be they trainer or protestor I wouldn't believe a thing that came out of their mouths until it was established. Why? experience.

I face palm you right back babe.

And i highly doubt you work for a shelter.



Also if your dog won't eat. Or the calorie requirement is so high it would be better in liquid form.

The DSCPA used NG tubes a lot when i was there.

Snuggles has your shelter ever tried them? (If you actually work in one)

They are fantastic things.

By the way IF a trainer is using the excuse the dog can't gain or its over training etc .IMO the dog must be taken off them.

xckjoo

One of my dogs was permanently under weight until we found food that he'd (fairly) consistently eat. Lurcher (greyhound x) we had since he was a pup. He constantly had access to food but just didn't want it. Some dogs are fussy eaters. Mean while our terrier got fat as can be from diving into the lurchers bowl whenever he left food. Both at healthy weights now but still takes considerable effort on our part.

ILoveYourVibes

xckjoo wrote: »

One of my dogs was permanently under weight until we found food that he'd (fairly) consistently eat. Lurcher (greyhound x) we had since he was a pup. He constantly had access to food but just didn't want it. Some dogs are fussy eaters. Mean while our terrier got fat as can be from diving into the lurchers bowl whenever he left food. Both at healthy weights now but still takes considerable effort on our part.

I think that is actual the situation with most people with underweight pets. You do have to get them to a healthy weight though.

It tends to be cats more than dogs.

The high calorie intake does have to be totally consistent. The more precise the better.

Obv there is a proper way to do it for dogs that have been starved though. There is always a risk of refeeding syndrome for such dogs.

Cats are way more susceptible to that though.

Obv at that stage a vet needs to be on call.

Snugglebunnies

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I just cannot face palm enough at your posts.

You think greyhounds won't gain weight at 6000 cals a day and on rest.

When you see and underweight dog you believe anything the owner tells you be they trainer or protestor I wouldn't believe a thing that came out of their mouths until it was established. Why? experience.

I face palm you right back babe.

And i highly doubt you work for a shelter.



Also if your dog won't eat. Or the calorie requirement is so high it would be better in liquid form.

The DSCPA used NG tubes a lot when i was there.

Snuggles has your shelter ever tried them? (If you actually work in one)

They are fantastic things.

By the way IF a trainer is using the excuse the dog can't gain or its over training etc .IMO the dog must be taken off them.

Obviously if a dog comes in underweight we don't just say ah the dog is naturally skinny and leave it that way.

Everything is done to get the dog to put up weight, an appropriate diet and veterinary care. Skinny dogs mostly go to Foster to help them gain weight.

Sometimes it's because they were previously underfed, sometimes it's an underlying medical condition and yes sometimes the dog is a poor doer and even then they're keep under a watchful eye with dietary monitoring and veterinary care.

ILoveYourVibes

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Obviously if a dog comes in underweight we don't just say ah the dog is naturally skinny and leave it that way.

Everything is done to get the dog to put up weight, an appropriate diet and veterinary care. Skinny dogs mostly go to Foster to help them gain weight.

Sometimes it's because they were previously underfed, sometimes it's an underlying medical condition and yes sometimes the dog is a poor doer and even then they're keep under a watchful eye with dietary monitoring and veterinary care.

How many calories do you put them on?

Some of the cases we saw literally had to be monitored for refeeding syndrome and bloods taken like every few hrs. And an NG tube used to control the feed as it was brought up.

Snugglebunnies

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Obviously if a dog comes in underweight we don't just say ah the dog is naturally skinny and leave it that way.

Everything is done to get the dog to put up weight, an appropriate diet and veterinary care. Skinny dogs mostly go to Foster to help them gain weight.

Sometimes it's because they were previously underfed, sometimes it's an underlying medical condition and yes sometimes the dog is a poor doer and even then they're keep under a watchful eye with dietary monitoring and veterinary care.

How many calories do you put them on?

Some of the cases we saw literally had to be monitored for refeeding syndrome and bloods taken like every few hrs. And an NG tube used to control the feed as it was brought up.

Ah sure if you don't think I really work at a shelter I don't know why you're even replying to my posts.

The two rescues on rte were named as far as I know, rewatch it and see, they're both in South tipp. Go visit them and broaden your experience maybe you don't know it all.

ILoveYourVibes

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Ah sure if you don't think I really work at a shelter I don't know why you're even replying to my posts.

Neither do I.

I need a life I think.

gozunda

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

...

The two rescues on rte were named as far as I know, rewatch it and see, they're both in South tipp. Go visit them and broaden your experience maybe you don't know it all.

Ok I didn't hear it thats all ..

But why the need for the snark? This is a discussion. I asked a simple question that is all. Thanks.

Btw the other question as to why not put up greyhound profiles on rescue websites? Surely it's a good thing to at least let people know there are greyhounds available and give all dogs the same chance no? If they are not detailed - then certainly they are much less likley to be adopted.

The interesting thing about greyhound and their breeding as working dogs is that they have fewer congenital and conformation problems compared to those which plague many of the regular pet breeds (according to several veterinary sources). Which is something to promote those who wish to adopt a dog for certain.

Also of interest is that their normal blood chemistry is surprisingly different from many other breeds.

http://www.arizonaadoptagreyhound.org/blood_tests.html

Snugglebunnies

gozunda wrote: »

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

...

The two rescues on rte were named as far as I know, rewatch it and see, they're both in South tipp. Go visit them and broaden your experience maybe you don't know it all.

Ok I didn't hear it thats all ..

But why the need for the snark? This is a discussion. I asked a simple question that is all. Thanks.

Btw the other question as to why not put up greyhound profiles on rescue websites? Surely it's a good thing to at least let people know there are greyhounds available and give all dogs the same chance no? If they are not detailed - then certainly they are much less likley to be adopted.

The interesting thing about greyhound and their breeding as working dogs is that they have fewer congenital and conformation problems compared to those which plague many of the regular pet breeds (according to several veterinary sources). Which is something to promote those who wish to adopt a dog for certain.

Also of interest is that their normal blood chemistry is surprisingly different from many other breeds.

http://www.arizonaadoptagreyhound.org/blood_tests.html

They're fantastic blood doners actually.

Regarding teeth though they often have problems as ex racers. They get fed a high protein diet so that often negatively affects their dental health and unfortunately many of them need teeth removed before they come to us.

As to not really putting them up online, we don't put many of our dogs up.

We get phonecalls and we send people on profiles of possible suitable dogs for them.
We mostly sort irish adoptions when people come to visit and it's easier to get a feel for which dogs suits them. We're very busy with potential adoptors on weekends which is great.

Putting stuff online takes a great deal of time we don't really have and although we have had a bigger interest in greyhound adoptions since the rte programme they're just not popular in Ireland. People generally just do not want sighthounds as pets in Ireland. They have the most chance when they're pups but older dogs are not as desirable here. We have a handful of sighthounds adoptions in Ireland each year which is very sad and that's despite us trying to educate people about them and promote them as great pets.

Another thing about putting them online is that you are advertising them to the whole world and it unfortunately can attract down certain groups of people who want them for other persuits other than pets and we don't want that risk for security reasons. It's a minefield when it comes to that, not everybody has good intentions.

xckjoo

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

They're fantastic blood doners actually.

Regarding teeth though they often have problems as ex racers. They get fed a high protein diet so that often negatively affects their dental health and unfortunately many of them need teeth removed before they come to us.

As to not really putting them up online, we don't put many of our dogs up.

We get phonecalls and we send people on profiles of possible suitable dogs for them.
We mostly sort irish adoptions when people come to visit and it's easier to get a feel for which dogs suits them. We're very busy with potential adoptors on weekends which is great.

Putting stuff online takes a great deal of time we don't really have and although we have had a bigger interest in greyhound adoptions since the rte programme they're just not popular in Ireland. People generally just do not want sighthounds as pets in Ireland. They have the most chance when they're pups but older dogs are not as desirable here. We have a handful of sighthounds adoptions in Ireland each year which is very sad and that's despite us trying to educate people about them and promote them as great pets.

Another thing about putting them online is that you are advertising them to the whole world and it unfortunately can attract down certain groups of people who want them for other persuits other than pets and we don't want that risk for security reasons. It's a minefield when it comes to that, not everybody has good intentions.

Sighthounds are awesome pets. Great temperament and very lazy :pac:

Snugglebunnies

xckjoo wrote: »

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

They're fantastic blood doners actually.

Regarding teeth though they often have problems as ex racers. They get fed a high protein diet so that often negatively affects their dental health and unfortunately many of them need teeth removed before they come to us.

As to not really putting them up online, we don't put many of our dogs up.

We get phonecalls and we send people on profiles of possible suitable dogs for them.
We mostly sort irish adoptions when people come to visit and it's easier to get a feel for which dogs suits them. We're very busy with potential adoptors on weekends which is great.

Putting stuff online takes a great deal of time we don't really have and although we have had a bigger interest in greyhound adoptions since the rte programme they're just not popular in Ireland. People generally just do not want sighthounds as pets in Ireland. They have the most chance when they're pups but older dogs are not as desirable here. We have a handful of sighthounds adoptions in Ireland each year which is very sad and that's despite us trying to educate people about them and promote them as great pets.

Another thing about putting them online is that you are advertising them to the whole world and it unfortunately can attract down certain groups of people who want them for other persuits other than pets and we don't want that risk for security reasons. It's a minefield when it comes to that, not everybody has good intentions.

Sighthounds are awesome pets. Great temperament and very lazy :pac:

Absolutely, they're fantastic pets! I've two myself, total couch potatoes. I have to drag them out of bed in the morning!

ILoveYourVibes

The show greyhounds tend to be slouchy. They are generally bred to be bigger in build too big to race.
A lot of bad racing blood lines are crossed with them sometimes.

They don't make good racers.

Once racing greyhounds need a high energy diet like racehorses to keep them healthy. Once taken off it (safely of course) they are much calmer. And they need to adjust to their new lives. But then they make great pets.

Any time i walked one though they were 'aware' of any birds or movements. You are aware when you walk them you are walking a sight hound. Their head turns you can feel where their eyes are. I used to walk them past the duck pond. You feel their focus on the birds. But not one of them ever tried to run or anything. Their reactions are just a but different. And they are a little more reactive. Nothing huge though. I would thoroughly recommend them as a pet for anyone who was willing to care for them properly.

They are lazy because they are sprinters. Not endurance dogs.

I had to say I found greyhounds smarter and a lot more focused than other dogs. Im not sure why. Most other dogs are like all over the place. With greyhounds their attention is very focused for a dog. Very clever. Very gentle and docile. Actually possibly the most docile dogs ever.

They need a lot of padding protection though. Bedding. Plus warm clothes.



There are like 7 types of greyhounds all widely available in Ireland. They are all slightly different.


Show greyhound





Racing greyhound.





Then you have spanish greyhounds in Ireland too ...or greyhounds with spanish and italian bloodlines.

They are different again.

They gave a dog with a deeper chest etc.

You can see the influence in some of the Irish dogs.


The you understand your dog the better.

Never heard of a high protein diet being linked to tooth loss I would say its something more serious. More lack of brushing a dogs teeth daily. Or medication. Also steroids can cause tooth loss. More likely to be that in greyhounds than a high protein diet lets be honest. Same with cocaine.

Although our dog had LOTS of teeth removed is not on a high protein diet and get his teeth washed daily. He just stuffs his face with Haribo when we are not looking! No more likely it was to do with meds he had to be on side affect unfortunately. He is disabled.

Born to run. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waJywvX06fs&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1cUOmKMMCj27z2bwXprS6wYlcv8xDrAp3dxzYQsxb2TH1BkTq_1Z56abo

ILoveYourVibes

This is what an average kennel looks like. From the inside.

6.43 it says he paid 50k for a dog.

Wow.

He put a 50k dog in a ‘average’ kennel.

So by ‘average’ do you mean not great but not bad or do you mean it’s the norm and what most greyhounds can expect ?

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow.

He put a 50k dog in a ‘average’ kennel.

So by ‘average’ do you mean not great but not bad or do you mean it’s the norm and what most greyhounds can expect ?

The norm.

ILoveYourVibes

Its interesting how physically different those greyhounds look from any I have seen in a rescue.

I am not just talking weight and muscle. But they have a totally different bone structure and everything. Much taller too. Heavier.

I wonder if those greyhounds have ever actually been a part of the true greyhound industry.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow.

He put a 50k dog in a ‘average’ kennel.

So by ‘average’ do you mean not great but not bad or do you mean it’s the norm and what most greyhounds can expect ?

Matt O’Donnell won the English Derby once, Irish Derby three times and at least 20 more classics. That’s some ‘average’ kennel.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its interesting how physically different those greyhounds look from any I have seen in a rescue.

I am not just talking weight and muscle. But they have a totally different bone structure and everything. Much taller too. Heavier.

I wonder if those greyhounds have ever actually been a part of the true greyhound industry.

What do you mean “if those greyhounds have ever actually been a part of the true greyhound industry”? Matt O’Donnell was one of the greatest trainers with over two dozen classic winners to his credit.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you mean “if those greyhounds have ever actually been a part of the true greyhound industry”? Matt O’Donnell was one of the greatest trainers with over two dozen classic winners to his credit.

No not those in the video.

The ones i see in rescues. The ones in the video look totally different in build to the ones i see in rescues.

Is it possible the ones i see rescues are really not to do with racing? Or not mainstream racing?

Do you know why they look so different the ones i see in rescues are tiny compared to those guys. Its not just muscle etc. Its their build etc. Their chest shape and everything.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No not those in the video.

The ones i see in rescues. The ones in the video look totally different in build to the ones i see in rescues.

Is it possible the ones i see rescues are really not to do with racing? Or not mainstream racing?

It’s possible that what you see in rescues are some of the many thousands unregistered greyhounds (according to one poster) and are not part of the greyhound industry. If they are unregistered then their pedigree is unknown making them lurchers. They are not the IGB/ICC’s problem.

Someone, maybe yourself asked if it’s possible for a greyhound to gain weight? Yes. Some greyhounds may not like the feed you use, so it’s a bit of trial and error. I’ve always found that the one thing no dog would turn it’s nose up at is a bowl of food covered in a tin of oily sardines.
I would say that older greyhounds shape would change, just like a humans. My 65 year old body isn’t a patch on what my 25 year old one was. Any greyhound aged 10 plus wouldn’t have the ‘back’ of a five year old one.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s possible that what you see in rescues are some of the many thousands unregistered greyhounds (according to one poster) and are not part of the greyhound industry. If they are unregistered then their pedigree is unknown making them lurchers. They are not the IGB/ICC’s problem.

.

This what I thought. Thank you.

Igotadose

Trouble is, there's no data, other than the numbers the IGB supplies. As long as they're pro-industry, the pro-industry chorus here sings their praises. If they're not, oh no, can't be trusted, must fix the entire dog breeding industry in Ireland, don't pick on the poor greyhound owners with their 50k euro dogs, they obviously can't help here. Might 'only' be 200 euthanized at tracks per year (yes, 2 per week). Might be thousands. The industry and the IGB have, until now (presumably) made sure no one knows.


Remember that at least one other famous greyhound breeder's sons was found to be using live rabbits to train his dogs. This too, is on Youtube.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s possible that what you see in rescues are some of the many thousands unregistered greyhounds (according to one poster) and are not part of the greyhound industry. If they are unregistered then their pedigree is unknown making them lurchers.

...

Theres a travellers site outside the next nearest town - and they alwsys seem to have greyhounds running around. To my eye these are greyhound breed and not lurchers. However I understand that without being registered- these dogs will never be classed as greyhounds.
I could be wrong but I believe that there are many many greyhounds/ lurchers owned by people not involved in racing or even legal coursing.

Its evident that the bugbear here is not necessarily what is being tarred and feathered as the greyhound 'industry'. Similar with pet dogs - not all dogs come from a small number of puppy farms. Unfortunately none of these facts seem to suit the endless propaganda heaped against everyone including those responsible owners and breeders of greyhounds. Tbh the endless drum banging by some who ignore all this is getting just a bit tiresome now tbh.

ILoveYourVibes

Igotadose wrote: »

Trouble is, there's no data, other than the numbers the IGB supplies. As long as they're pro-industry, the pro-industry chorus here sings their praises. If they're not, oh no, can't be trusted, must fix the entire dog breeding industry in Ireland, don't pick on the poor greyhound owners with their 50k euro dogs, they obviously can't help here. Might 'only' be 200 euthanized at tracks per year (yes, 2 per week). Might be thousands. The industry and the IGB have, until now (presumably) made sure no one knows.


Remember that at least one other famous greyhound breeder's sons was found to be using live rabbits to train his dogs. This too, is on Youtube.

This is hearsay. And possibly libelous.


Why would he use live rabbits? The dog won't chase them at the track etc? That makes no sense.

As far as I am aware boards doesn't like to be used to rally the troops. I think on both sides we could slide into that on here if we are not careful.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This is hearsay. And possibly libelous.


Why would he use live rabbits? The dog won't chase them at the track etc? That makes no sense.

As far as I am aware boards doesn't like to be used to rally the troops. I think on both sides we could slide into that on here if we are not careful.

That is actually fact. From about 20 years ago, but it did happen, unfortunately.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

That is actually fact. From about 20 years ago, but it did happen, unfortunately.

Do u have a link? Not just to headline to some random breeder but either saying a top breeder or even a name?


I mean in Ireland. I've googled i can't find anything.

Also that is TWENTY yrs ago.

Igotadose

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Do u have a link? Not just to headline to some random breeder but either saying a top breeder or even a name?


I mean in Ireland. I've googled i can't find anything.

Also that is TWENTY yrs ago.

https://www.indymedia.ie/article/106128?userlanguage=ga

Hth

ILoveYourVibes

Igotadose wrote: »

https://www.indymedia.ie/article/106128?userlanguage=ga

Hth

Anything recent?


Also the board has dealt with him for other things.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/greyhound-owner-challenges-fines-for-doping-and-contamination-1.3660078

Igotadose

My point in bringing him up is, just because someone's a successful trainer say nothing about their character or if they're particularly good to the dogs. It's a job. Fawning videos about trainers are just propaganda.

As for recent news about trainer's being caught out try Google.