RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

Ruraldweller56

Choc Chip wrote: »

So I can't have an opinion on greyhound owning because I don't have a kennel?

I do have a foster greyhound, but I guess that's not enough. No one should have an opinion on what another person does with their own property.

BUT... you can have an opinion on someone else's womb.

Sterling logic.

Btw, the two aren't connected and that's the last I'll talk about the 8th on this thread.

Not at all. Just showing that we can all throw around silly meaningless one liners when it suits us. BTW, not one of the anti greyhound folk on here have refuted any of my claims that they support abortion while yammering on about 'dog cruelty'.

It was an assumption I made when I saw the cut of them protesting at my own local track. Turns out to have been an accurate one. Just a bunch of typical SJW fools.

Fair play for keeping them. I'd love to have one as a pet but I work away a lot and my other half isn't interested.

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

The trouble is that program was a tissue of lies. Apart from the dogs killed in knackeries. Lies about dogs with ears mutilated when they can actually be identified by Microchips or DNA. Lies about Widespread abuse of EPO. Lies about illegal coursing. Lies about dogs being boiled alive or clubbed to death in Ireland.

Have the IGB and/or ICC made any moves to bring legal action against RTE for these supposed lies? Seems like they should if you're right. I did a bit of looking on RTE News but can't find any indication. I guess they could be biased though.


I did come across this article where IGB pledge to reform greyhound welfare. Seems like a strange thing to pledge if everything is fine. And this article that refutes their own claim that they don't find the report accurate:

However, in June 2018, some nine months after the report was presented to the IGB, its chief executive Ger Dollard wrote a letter recommending Preferred Results Ltd and praising the "rigorous, thorough and professional way" the company undertook its work.

Minutes of the Irish Greyhound Board from December 2017 recorded its directors described the report as "thought provoking", but containing "some impractical short and medium-term measures".

Igotadose

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Not at all. Just showing that we can all throw around silly meaningless one liners when it suits us. BTW, not one of the anti greyhound folk on here have refuted any of my claims that they support abortion while yammering on about 'dog cruelty'.

It was an assumption I made when I saw the cut of them protesting at my own local track. Turns out to have been an accurate one. Just a bunch of typical SJW fools.

Fair play for keeping them. I'd love to have one as a pet but I work away a lot and my other half isn't interested.

Ahh so you don't actually care about greyhounds. Glad you cleared that up.

So, what about a referendum on the financing for this hobby. We didn't vote for it. We should get a vote on that specific legislation.

Cina

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

Of course it's relevant, it's animals racing, not one of the posters here have called for a ban on horse racing even when showed to them that there are more horses culled each year.

Then why don't you go make a horses thread and call them up on it in there instead of in here? The two aren't mutually exclusive at all.

Ruraldweller56

Igotadose wrote: »

Ahh so you don't actually care about greyhounds. Glad you cleared that up.

So, what about a referendum on the financing for this hobby. We didn't vote for it. We should get a vote on that specific legislation.

Read the last line of my post.

I go to the local track a few times a year. Many friends of mine keep greyhounds. Most I've spoken to were appalled at that program. People like us do care.

It doesn't change the fact that the people who go around protesting at the tracks are a bunch of SJW loons. That no one with a brain should even consider listening to.

If you want to organise a referendum on that knock yourself out.

CiarraiAbu2

Cina wrote: »

Then why don't you go make a horses thread and call them up on it in there instead of in here? The two aren't mutually exclusive at all.

Because I am looking for the opinions of the posters here why would I open a new thread.

The Satanist

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

Of course it's relevant, it's animals racing, not one of the posters here have called for a ban on horse racing even when showed to them that there are more horses culled each year.

Most posters are capable of keeping on topic, it's basic forum etiquette. You wouldn't be trying to deflect from the topic, would you?

But since you mentioned it, and you obviously acknowledge just how bad horse racing is, why not start a thread about it? Or better still, an active campaign? I'll join you!

CiarraiAbu2

I'm pointing out the blatant hypocrisy shown on this thread, posters call for a ban on racing but when challenged on horse racing refuse to answer. Why does it bother you that much if posters give an answer.

xckjoo

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

I'm pointing out the blatant hypocrisy shown on this thread, posters call for a ban on racing but when challenged on horse racing refuse to answer. Why does it bother you that much if posters give an answer.

I would assume most people are trying to stay on-topic and avoid "whataboutery". If the people against greyhound racing are the lefty, animal loving, baby killing, zealots that some people are trying to paint them as, they're also unlikely to be pro-horse racing. It's not hypocrisy to ignore pointless questions.

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

Have the IGB and/or ICC made any moves to bring legal action against RTE for these supposed lies? Seems like they should if you're right. I did a bit of looking on RTE News but can't find any indication. I guess they could be biased though.


I did come across this article where IGB pledge to reform greyhound welfare. Seems like a strange thing to pledge if everything is fine. And this article that refutes their own claim that they don't find the report accurate:

I believe that there’s something happening as IGB cannot talk about the RTÉ program due to some proceedings.

I think that the traceability problem is the fault of the ICC Stud Book keepers and IGB are working to resolve this. Part of the problem lies in the ICC being a club whereas IGB are a semi state body.

wardides

Deleted User wrote: »

The trouble is that program was a tissue of lies. Apart from the dogs killed in knackeries. Lies about dogs with ears mutilated when they can actually be identified by Microchips or DNA. Lies about Widespread abuse of EPO. Lies about illegal coursing. Lies about dogs being boiled alive or clubbed to death in Ireland.

The above is fairly misleading. The TV show was definitely one sided. But I've encountered several, more than I could actually remember, with ears mutilated. Not sure the programme mentioned dogs being boiled alive, I'm pretty sure that point was in respect to exporting dogs to countries with little to no animal welfare or rights, where the above does happen.

Hadn't even realised this thread was on here, never mind the traction it got. My opinion, there are several straight forward and good greyhound trainers in Ireland. However, the industry has got to a stage now where there are such a volume of races, particularly low graded races, that the bad is slowly outweighing the good. It's an industry purely driven by gambling, to the point where there across UK & Ireland there are roughly 140 races you can bet on a daily basis. That's around 800 dogs a day give or take. That's insane. This has led to horrific overbreeding, with an industry that has very poor regulations in terms of after care. It's an absolutely horrendous stage of the industry, and anyone who argues this on the basis that they know a handful of nice owners with small numbers of dogs, should have a retake.

And anyone who compares it to horse racing is being pretty ridiculous also.

jackboy

wardides wrote: »

And anyone who compares it to horse racing is being pretty ridiculous also.

Why?

Ruraldweller56

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I believe that there’s something happening as IGB cannot talk about the RTÉ program due to some proceedings.

I think that the traceability problem is the fault of the ICC Stud Book keepers and IGB are working to resolve this. Part of the problem lies in the ICC being a club whereas IGB are a semi state body.

I understand solicitors have been called by persons featured in the program regarding allegations made against them.

CiarraiAbu2

It's not a pointless question, not one poster wants to be seen calling for a ban on horse racing.

xckjoo

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

It's not a pointless question, not one poster wants to be seen calling for a ban on horse racing.

Nobody has called for an end to world hunger here either. Or the freeing of Shamu. Hypocrites eh?

Ruraldweller56

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

I understand solicitors have been called by persons featured in the program regarding allegations made against them.

Yes. I understand that the IGB have brought separate proceedings.

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote: »

Are those hobbies subsidised by the taxpayer? Animals are live beings and suffer/die for "sport", cars are not.

The tax payer doesn’t subsidise greyhound racing. A levy on gambling does. Coursing doesn’t receive any outside funding.

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

The tax payer doesn’t subsidise greyhound racing. A levy on gambling does. Coursing doesn’t receive any outside funding.

That's still money that could be spent elsewhere or something that all tax payers would benefit from, not just the minority that are involved in greyhound racing.

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

That's still money that could be spent elsewhere or something that all tax payers would benefit from, not just the minority that are involved in greyhound racing.

It reaps rewards of over €300,000,000 for the wider Irish economy. Through wages, directly and indirectly from racing greyhounds. eg, feed suppliers, track employees, betting office employees, kennel staff, etc.

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

It reaps rewards of over €300,000,000 for the wider Irish economy. Through wages, directly and indirectly from racing greyhounds. eg, feed suppliers, track employees, betting office employees, kennel staff, etc.

Was that figure independently verified or is it some self-reported valuation from IGB? They're accounting doesn't hold much water with me I'm afraid. It sounds like something the marketing dept came up with.

CiarraiAbu2

xckjoo wrote: »

Nobody has called for an end to world hunger here either. Or the freeing of Shamu. Hypocrites eh?

They are not linked

xckjoo

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

They are not linked

Exactly. Like people not talking about horse racing in a thread about greyhound racing. Not linked.

Igotadose

xckjoo wrote: »

Was that figure independently verified or is it some self-reported valuation from IGB? They're accounting doesn't hold much water with me I'm afraid. It sounds like something the marketing dept came up with.

If you dig back through the thread, I looked into this number. It's never been externally verified and to me, not an accountant, there are assumptions that don't hold up. I think the number is much less, maybe half that. It's assuming some bloated number of people earning some average amount, all of whom would lose jobs and never work again if greyhound racing were stopped.

It comes from a report commissioned by the IGB that later they distanced themselves from.

Igotadose

Igotadose wrote: »

If you dig back through the thread, I looked into this number. It's never been externally verified and to me, not an accountant, there are assumptions that don't hold up. I think the number is much less, maybe half that. It's assuming some bloated number of people earning some average amount, all of whom would lose jobs and never work again if greyhound racing were stopped.

It comes from a report commissioned by the IGB that later they distanced themselves from.

Was it not from an earlier report commissioned as part of the greyhound bill in the Dail, compiled by economist Jim Power?

Igotadose

Deleted User wrote: »

Was it not from an earlier report commissioned as part of the greyhound bill in the Dail, compiled by economist Jim Power?

Aha you're right, it's from Power, not the subsequent denied report.

wardides

jackboy wrote: »

Why?

Because the main issue within the Greyhound industry is the level of breeding going on, the numbers of dogs being killed at the same ease of dropping off a bag of rubbish a dump, and the level of aftercare once a dog has finished a career, or more than likely been injured and cannot race again.

If you think horse racing has the same issues then you're on another planet. You can clutch at straws and compare the number of track deaths vs the number of deaths at horse race tracks, but even that is clutching. Hundreds of horses are killed due to impact injuries. Very hard for a horse to recover from a broken bone or leg due to the sheer mass, and recovery would be highly unlikely, where as a greyhound would not be as severe. On top of that breeding regulations are a million miles ahead (mix of reasons, if not only costing).

Igotadose

Igotadose wrote: »

Aha you're right, it's from Power, not the subsequent denied report.

I don’t think that all that report wasn’t accepted. Only the method used to estimate number of unaccounted greyhounds wasn’t accepted. The figures used didn’t take into account the numbers retired but still kept at home by their owners, nor did it take coursing greyhounds and those exported into account.

wardides

Deleted User wrote: »

It reaps rewards of over €300,000,000 for the wider Irish economy. Through wages, directly and indirectly from racing greyhounds. eg, feed suppliers, track employees, betting office employees, kennel staff, etc.

Personally think, the "oh it will cost jobs" rationale is embarrassing. It's like saying we never should have introduced a ban on smoking, or look to reduce peoples smoking habits, as it will hit tobacco manufacturers, retailers & publicans.

The betting industry will survive. People will find something else to gamble on (or even better it might reduce the crippling level of gambling addiction in this country). Several feed suppliers are multinational companies (such as GAIN), they will survive. The same way tobacco industries have, the same way soft drinks companies will with incurring sugar tax, as will confectionery companies when it comes down the line.

Absolutely will cost jobs within Kennel industry, on track staff (I would argue this has been a trend well before this documentary however).

You cant argue that a reason for not trying to improve a horrific situation is because it will cause a small issue across several sectors.

jackboy

wardides wrote: »

Hundreds of horses are killed due to impact injuries.

This part is why horse racing is brought into the discussion. Fair enough there are differences between the industries and horse injuries are far more difficult to fix. However, the anti greyhound racing posters are saying that lots of greyhounds die racing and the industry supports gambling. That is the link.

CiarraiAbu2

xckjoo wrote: »

Exactly. Like people not talking about horse racing in a thread about greyhound racing. Not linked.

Of course they are linked, they are both animal racing.