Demise of the Irish Derby

Mgoraf

Some conspiracy theory there lol.

Of course they cared who won. A dual derby winner is worth much more to them than just having any of their horses beat madhmoon.

The jockeys in behind just had shockers presuming they'd come back. They didn't go a crazy pace, even Norway finished 3rd and he went with the winner

BorneTobyWilde

Mgoraf wrote: »

Some conspiracy theory there lol.

Of course they cared who won. A dual derby winner is worth much more to them than just having any of their horses beat madhmoon.

The jockeys in behind just had shockers presuming they'd come back. They didn't go a crazy pace, even Norway finished 3rd and he went with the winner

Racing is corrupt. Lot's of dirty tricks and tactics at play. Madhmoon was a danger to Magnier and O Brien, so they used their tactics to give them the best chance.

The Tetrarch

Madhmoon was in the clear for the last three furlongs.
As the presenters were saying at Royal Ascot when runners failed to close "they gaps were moving faster than him".

The Mig

Beggy obviously forgot to pull the handbrake up to allow Ryan to close on AVD

STB.

You could easily rename this thread, the Demise of Ryan Moore.


He has been atrocious over the last few months.


Since the 1st June he has had 35 rides for Aidan O'Brien either at home or abroad. He has won on 4 of them.

Always Tired

One of the on course bookies they interviewed said he didn't think Madhmoon would stay and honesty he didn't.

The bigger priced stablemates have been doing this with O'Brien for ages now, it's no surprise. When he has half the field just don't bet the race at all is actually the best option!

STB.

Just wanted to add that the amount of rope they gave the two at the front was shocking.


Padraig Beggy hadn't a winner for 356 days prior to winning the Derby.

Always Tired

Funny enough when Moore rides for Haggas he tends to win on the favs. It's just AOB has this approach and it's not going to change. Plus the other jockeys are also all extremely capable. It's good for him, good for the yard, but not good for punters.

He isn't going to lose his job despite having Frankie boss him at Ascot nearly every time he was on the fav, despite losing to the other jockeys in the yard because it has been happening for a while and yet overall the yard is super successful at the end of the day. But to be backing him in these races with all the stablemates, well you only have yourself to blame if you continue to do it.

tryfix

In the RTE interview Magnier himself looked more than slightly miffed by the result.

The result devalues their Epsom winner and placed horses by a lot more than the Curragh winner's value will have risen and it makes winning the Irish Derby look much less impressive in the future.

sliabh 1956

I thought Magnier paid Aidan a lovely tribute after the race . I dont think the result mattered that much to the lads seeing that its a son of Gallelio that won. I read an earlier post Moores figures look pretty grim but then other trainers dont have that many highly rated horses to run in the big races. So its not like O brien enters no hopers in all these grade ones. Moore just picks the wrong ones maybe the Lads dont need a stable jockey just offer the rides to freelancers they cant be any worse than Moore

flos1964

STB. wrote: »

Just wanted to add that the amount of rope they gave the two at the front was shocking.


Padraig Beggy hadn't a winner for 356 days prior to winning the Derby.

O Briens use of pacemakers is laughable at the best of times....horses going off like scalded cats and being ignored by the rest ...today was one of those times that one of them did not come back to the field and with that breeding that can allways happen...happened before and will happen again.

flos1964

For pacemaking perfection have a look at new approach ...champion stakes ... deadly and beautiful and simple in its execution.

famagusta

Fully expecting to log in here tonight and see Aidankkk having tipped the derby winner.... Disappointed!

morphy87

What was the attendance for today does anyone know,didn’t hear it mentioned so it must not be anything special

chinguetti

morphy87 wrote: »

What was the attendance for today does anyone know,didn’t hear it mentioned so it must not be anything special

Just over 11,000 from what I read earlier on Twitter.

tipptom

flos1964 wrote: »

O Briens use of pacemakers is laughable at the best of times....horses going off like scalded cats and being ignored by the rest ...today was one of those times that one of them did not come back to the field and with that breeding that can allways happen...happened before and will happen again.

That's exactly it,they are there to be used and to generally start burning out two furlongs out but a lot of ballydoyles are pigs and some days they can produce if even just for one day.

Anyone saying coolmore don't care what wins as long as its one of theirs is of their heads,that was a costly embarrassment for them today.

Darc19

chinguetti wrote: »

Just over 11,000 from what I read earlier on Twitter.

If that is a correct figure - and looking at the number of cars parked, it probably is, then heads should roll.

That's a little over 15,000 for all three days combined.

When you look at the phenomenal amount of pr and advertising of the event, this has to be see as an abject failure

STB.

flos1964 wrote: »

O Briens use of pacemakers is laughable at the best of times....horses going off like scalded cats and being ignored by the rest ...today was one of those times that one of them did not come back to the field and with that breeding that can allways happen...happened before and will happen again.

There was about 10lbs in the ratings according to RPRs between the fancied horses and the winner.

Winner was 10 length clear at the bend. 10-20 at various other points as Moore watched the furlong markers and Hayes watched Moore.

You cannot as a jockey show that type of disrespect to a Galileo who obviously loved the galloping nature of the Curragh. The other horses were simply not put into it. Watching each other rather than the one in front.

Beggy made them look like amateurs which you could be forgiven for calling them for assuming the horse in front will stop rather than getting your own horse in a challenging position.

Beggy simply pushed out the Winner in the end. The rest behind had to power down their jumbo jets when they realised the winning line had been passed.

flos1964

STB. wrote: »

There was about 10lbs in the ratings according to RPRs between the fancied horses and the winner.

Winner was 10 length clear at the bend. 10-20 at various other points as Moore watched the furlong markers and Hayes watched Moore.

You cannot as a jockey show that type of disrespect to a Galileo who obviously loved the galloping nature of the Curragh. The other horses were simply not put into it. Watching each other rather than the one in front.

Beggy made them look like amateurs which you could be forgiven for calling them for assuming the horse in front will stop rather than getting your own horse in a challenging position.

Beggy simply pushed out the Winner in the end. The rest behind had to power down their jumbo jets when they realised the winning line had been passed.

Cant really disagree with you but he did stop the last day...i would imagine thats what Moore was thinking would happen again...dont get me wrong ...moore royaly fcuked it up but i think he had some bit of an excuse this time.

famagusta

Darc19 wrote:

When you look at the phenomenal amount of pr and advertising of the event, this has to be see as an abject failure

Big queues for food, pints and toilet, 35 a ticket, some joke

picachu

famagusta wrote: »

Big queues for food, pints and toilet, 35 a ticket, some joke

Agreed

I havent been in 10 years

RivetingRoger

Sovereign off to Josephs yard for a crack at the Supreme in March?

STB.

RivetingRoger wrote: »

Sovereign off to Josephs yard for a crack at the Supreme in March?

A colt who just won the Derby is off to jump hurdles.

Someone is pulling your leg.

I'd say its more likely to be doing the milk rounds, Pat Mustard style.

harr

I went to the derby ever year with my dad when I was a kid and it was a huge occasion, packed out. It’s was a real fun day out for everyone a massive carnival weekend and both Newbridge and kildare would be jammers.
Went this year for first time in years and I was so disappointed no atmosphere at all. Gone are the days of special trains and buses from all over the country.
Even when I got to my late teens a gang of us would go.
The crowd seemed so sparse yesterday and I just didn’t enjoy the day..I honestly don’t know how they can bring it back to the occasion it once was...
The Organisers must be embarrassed over the attendance numbers...

CH3OH

"166G Dubai Duty Free Irish Derby
The Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board Veterinary Officer examined Broome, trained by A.P.O'Brien, at the request of the Stewards and reported the animal to be post race normal.

The Stewards requested a report from A.P.O'Brien, trainer, as to the apparent improvement in form of Sovereign, placed first, as compared with its recent form. The trainer reported that his charge has shown plenty of ability in the past and appeared to appreciate the front running tactics. He further added that his charge stayed the trip very well. Having considered the report, the Stewards noted the explanation offered."


Nothing to see here....

chinguetti

chinguetti wrote: »

Just over 11,000 from what I read earlier on Twitter.

Tickets were being given out free in Fethard. You could get any number of them.

The Tetrarch

CH3OH wrote: »

Nothing to see here....

In Sovereign's last three races before the Irish Derby he was beaten 8l, 3l, 8.5l by Broome.
In the Irish Derby he beat Broome 15l.

Seems reasonable.

Hulk Hands

famagusta wrote: »

Big queues for food, pints and toilet, 35 a ticket, some joke

Quite how the place is bursting at the seams with only 11k (most on freebies) is hard to fathom. The toilets part is criminal. Majority of racegoers are on the piss, so overload the place with toilets when building. It's not a difficult one.

As for food and pints, Galway seems to be the only racecourse in the world that realised that if you throw in as many students as possible on 9 quid an hour behind bars and counters, things will move quicker and you'll make more. That place is truly bursting at the seams during their race week yet they keep getting a drink manageable. Need to double their number of toilets too though

IAMAMORON

RivetingRoger wrote: »

Sovereign off to Josephs yard for a crack at the Supreme in March?

I heard the Triumph myself Roger. The rumour mill starts here. Boyles wouldn't give me a quote yesterday, going to try Ladbrokes later...

lemush

https://twitter.com/deniscoakley11/status/1145255454580383744

STB.

lemush wrote: »

https://twitter.com/deniscoakley11/status/1145255454580383744

Might be something that happens everyday in Coakley's world of handicappers. This was a bloody Group 1 National Derby.


Ah people making excuses about the two races that went on yesterday in the Derby.

Race 1 where Beggy took the race by the scruff of the neck and galloped from pillar to post.

Race 2, where so called professional jokeys ignored the horse poaching a massive lead and watched each others moves, without once taking into account that there was a horse miles ahead that wasn't stopping.

As for people talking out of their pockets, like it or lump it, that is how the industry survives. Even for those who don't bet, it wasn't much of a spectacle. The winner was met with a deafening silence coming in.

Mostly Harmless

Reckon we should ban anything bigger than 8/1 that doesn't have a very obvious form chance from being allowed to win big races

IAMAMORON

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

Reckon we should ban anything bigger than 8/1 that doesn't have a very obvious form chance from being allowed to win big races

I would prefer to see Coolmore fire Ryan Moore in fairness. At least Beggy might get a chance to show us how good he is more often.

Mostly Harmless

We'll be blaming Ryan Moore for global warming soon

PhuckHugh22

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

We'll be blaming Ryan Moore for global warming soon

All these lads that reckon Moore is the worst hockey of all time must be cleaning up taking him on on all the short price favorites.
Or do they only reckon he is ****e when he loses on something they've backed?

IAMAMORON

PhuckHugh22 wrote: »

All these lads that reckon Moore is the worst hockey of all time must be cleaning up taking him on on all the short price favorites.
Or do they only reckon he is ****e when he loses on something they've backed?

Given he wins phuck all it is beginning to get too easy. Watching Frankie paste him at Ascot last week was sublime. Someone had to.

He is still the same pile of shight this morning as he was yesterday. He doesn't care about the job at Coolmore, that is the fact of the matter.

The days of bringing Notnowcato up the stands rail at Sandown are passed, and in the past they shall remain.

rule supreme

Why is everyone just blaming O Brien's horses , I'm more disappointed in Prendergasts horse , he didn't try at all .

posturingpat

In unrelated news. Harry Skelton to the stewards room.

rolling boh

I think most average punters have no real interest in going to race meetings where they feel the need to dress up much.The curragh seems to have lost a lot of the local following of years gone by.All the races are free to watch at home or in the pub no need to travel and pay money just to get in the gate.It is no surprise that the Derby failed to get a big crowd I would say the crowd yesterday had a large number of people involved in the industry not your average person who just follows racing.

STB.

PhuckHugh22 wrote: »

All these lads that reckon Moore is the worst hockey of all time must be cleaning up taking him on on all the short price favorites.
Or do they only reckon he is ****e when he loses on something they've backed?

You'd want to have more money than sense to be backing anything Moore is on for AOB. His form shows that and his sequence of beaten horses for AOB. A parting of ways cant be far off.

rule supreme wrote: »

Why is everyone just blaming O Brien's horses , I'm more disappointed in Prendergasts horse , he didn't try at all .

Hayes far too busy watching what Moore was doing to realise he was in a race.

PhuckHugh22

STB. wrote: »

You'd want to have more money than sense to be backing anything Moore is on for AOB. His form shows that and his sequence of beaten horses for AOB. A parting of ways cant be far off.



Hayes far too busy watching what Moore was doing to realise he was in a race.

You'd want to give up betting if you are betting a horse just because xyz jockey is on or not on.

Similarly you'd want to give it up if you are blaming a jockey and don't just take your beating like a man if you lose a bet.

Andrew00

Win like a man, lose like a man

WishUWereHere

Hi

I know almost nothing about horse racing. But, a few things struck me over the past few days:

1) The road up to the racecourse from the Wolfhound roundabout looked very impressive with the way it was done up.

2) The banners all around Newbridge was also impressive.

3) I'm not sure if Fridays meeting was a day or evening meeting...please can someone say it was or not. But, assuming it was an evening meeting - I dropped my Daughter off at Moorefield for a dance around 20h00 on Friday, and thought the number of cars parked around the racecourse reflected very poor attendance. When I went back to collect Her at 23h00, it was almost dark, and must say the front entrance to the Racecourse looked very impressive after it's refurbishment.

Would be a terrible pity to see poor attendances diminish the stature of the Derby meeting.

BumperD

Falling attendances are common in UK and Ireland. I thought infields might work but even those are down at the English derby.

I’m looking forward to seeing the new curragh at some stage when I’m back home. The old place was poor and needed a refurbishment so you have to applaud the vision and investment

STB.

PhuckHugh22 wrote: »

You'd want to give up betting if you are betting a horse just because xyz jockey is on or not on.

Similarly you'd want to give it up if you are blaming a jockey and don't just take your beating like a man if you lose a bet.

What are you talking about. First of all its "betting on", not "betting a", you're not in Kansas now Dorothy. If you are going to try and have a pop, at least try and communicate in english.

Secondly what jockey is on what horse is definitely a factor I take into consideration when backing a horse as some are brutal.

Now, what beating are you talking about ? Are you assuming I backed Moore in the Derby because I made a remark based on his appalling record with AOB (having pointed out that he is 4 out of 35 in June) ?

I don't back underpriced horses ridden by bad jockeys for a reason. But, don't let that stop you making bad assumptions and even more ridiculous advisory statements about taking a beating like a man. It was an observation not pocket talk.

I'd say you're the type of lad that regularly gets a slap for speaking out of turn.

lemush

STB. wrote: »

What are you talking about. First of all its "betting on", not "betting a", you're not in Kansas now Dorothy. If you are going to try and have a pop, at least try and communicate in english.

Secondly what jockey is on what horse is definitely a factor I take into consideration when backing a horse as some are brutal.

Now, what beating are you talking about ? Are you assuming I backed Moore in the Derby because I made a remark based on his appalling record with AOB (having pointed out that he is 4 out of 35 in June) ?

I don't back underpriced horses ridden by bad jockeys for a reason. But, don't let that stop you making bad assumptions and even more ridiculous advisory statements about taking a beating like a man. It was an observation not pocket talk.

I'd say you're the type of lad that regularly gets a slap for speaking out of turn.

It’s very easy to forget to take your pills as this post proves 😂

STB.

lemush wrote: »

It’s very easy to forget to take your pills as this post proves ��

Why's that then ?

PhuckHugh22

STB. wrote: »

What are you talking about. First of all its "betting on", not "betting a", you're not in Kansas now Dorothy. If you are going to try and have a pop, at least try and communicate in english.

Secondly what jockey is on what horse is definitely a factor I take into consideration when backing a horse as some are brutal.

Now, what beating are you talking about ? Are you assuming I backed Moore in the Derby because I made a remark based on his appalling record with AOB (having pointed out that he is 4 out of 35 in June) ?

I don't back underpriced horses ridden by bad jockeys for a reason. But, don't let that stop you making bad assumptions and even more ridiculous advisory statements about taking a beating like a man. It was an observation not pocket talk.

I'd say you're the type of lad that regularly gets a slap for speaking out of turn.

Haha ease it up there on the defense lad. I wasn't attacking you I was more referring to the absolute tripe posted here. Not really from you. But keep fighting the good fight. :pac:

Fwiw I think jockeys are the most over bet and over thought reasons for backing a horse.

Mostly Harmless

This is all Ryan Moore's fault, useless bastard

PhuckHugh22

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

This is all Ryan Moore's fault, useless bastard

I agree..