Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Brian?

RIGOLO wrote: »

Id imagine the residents of her borough who lost out on that Amazon multi- billion dollar investment are starting to wonder just how intelligent she is ..

Pray tell, how did AOC scupper that investment?

She has a degree in econmics but ended up as a bartender , and she had the neck to call Ivanka Trump " unqualified " when in fact Ivanka has been invovled in business since an early age, runs a number of her own businesses , has an MBA from Wharton and has conducted herself extremely well on the world stage in the last 2 years .

She doesn’t have a degree in economics actually. I’m too classy to go near your misspelling of economics there. She majored in Poli-Sci

Ivanka Is unqualified to the job she is currently doing and is a laughing stock on the “world stage”

AOC and her Green NEW DEAL .. the one that every Democrat rejected with 3 democrats voting AGAINST it and the other 43 voting 'PRESENT' but not for it ..

She isnt a smart politician she is just ticking the main stream media boxes for now, she wont last long..

Your knowledge of AOC is so poor I’m surprised you’re even passing comment.

You’re comparing a spoiled little rich girl with a woman who has an asteroid named after by MIT after she finished 2nd in a microbiology competition.

peddlelies

Brian? wrote: »

Pray tell, how did AOC scupper that investment?

Amazon's statement

"After much thought and deliberation, we’ve decided not to move forward with our plans to build a headquarters for Amazon in Long Island City, Queens," the Seattle-based Amazon said in the release.

"For Amazon, the commitment to build a new headquarters requires positive, collaborative relationships with state and local elected officials who will be supportive over the long-term. While polls show that 70% of New Yorkers support our plans and investment, a number of state and local politicians have made it clear that they oppose our presence and will not work with us to build the type of relationships that are required to go forward with the project we and many others envisioned in Long Island City,"

"We are deeply grateful to Governor Cuomo, Mayor de Blasio, and their staffs, who so enthusiastically and graciously invited us to build in New York City and supported us during the process,"

Poll found she was the main villain according to New Yorkers. She wasn't solely responsible but her anti Amazon rhetoric and condemnation of the deal is there for all to see publicly. Her own job approval fell rapidly afterwards.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/nyregion/newyorktoday/AOC-Amazon-nyc.html

Ben Done

mcmoustache wrote: »

Are you working off some template? Here's one of yours from a fwe days ago.

That's clear.

I thought the unending press releases had been stopped, but clearly they're permissable again.

Brian?

peddlelies wrote: »

Amazon's statement

"After much thought and deliberation, we’ve decided not to move forward with our plans to build a headquarters for Amazon in Long Island City, Queens," the Seattle-based Amazon said in the release.

"For Amazon, the commitment to build a new headquarters requires positive, collaborative relationships with state and local elected officials who will be supportive over the long-term. While polls show that 70% of New Yorkers support our plans and investment, a number of state and local politicians have made it clear that they oppose our presence and will not work with us to build the type of relationships that are required to go forward with the project we and many others envisioned in Long Island City,"

"We are deeply grateful to Governor Cuomo, Mayor de Blasio, and their staffs, who so enthusiastically and graciously invited us to build in New York City and supported us during the process,"

Poll found she was the main villain according to New Yorkers. She wasn't solely responsible but her anti Amazon rhetoric and condemnation of the deal is there for all to see publicly. Her own job approval fell rapidly afterwards.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/nyregion/newyorktoday/AOC-Amazon-nyc.html

A poll of new Yorkers isn't proof of anything. It just shows how effective the anti AOC propoganda was.As a federally elected official she had absolutely nothing to do with the Amazon investment.

The real "blame" lies with the state Senate. It even says so in the article you linked.

peddlelies

These are the toilets connected to drinking water fountains in those facilities released by Border security and confirmed by AOC on twitter. Now she's claiming someone told her the button was broken and she was forced to drink from the toilet water.



Bit different to what she claimed originally.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1145762201619357696

batgoat

peddlelies wrote: »

These are the toilets connected to sinks with drinking water in those facilities released by Border security and confirmed by AOC on twitter. Now she's claiming someone told her the button was broken and she was forced to drink from the toilet water.



Bit different to what she claimed originally.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1145764653835964419?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1145764653835964419&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2019%2F07%2F02%2Fsecret-facebook-group-appears-show-us-border-agents-mocking%2F

They are still being kept in inhumane conditions, with no right to medical care in unhygienic conditions where people have died and continue to die.

peddlelies

batgoat wrote: »

They are still being kept in inhumane conditions, with no right to medical care in unhygienic conditions where people have died and continue to die.

If she's grossly exaggerating things or straight out lying she deserves to be called out on it just like Trump. The beneficiaries of lies while an obvious noble cause in this case should not take precedent over that.

She's claiming she was physically and sexually intimated which are outrageous claims. She was in the company of dozens who also made the trip. She claimed she toured the entire facility. There's contrasting reports that she shouted at agents once she arrived and only toured one part of the facility.

Given that there's cameras everywhere in those facilities maybe the truth will come out.

pixelburp

The toilet is connected to the drinking fountain, or at least that's what it looks like: the fair question beyond the politics is whether that water is even potable in the first place, cos it's very possible the detainees are indeed drinking "toilet" water. It's a pretty disgusting setup.

Can't speak to how potable Irish cistern water is, but I wouldn't have ant faith in American water systems (hello Flint), and doubly so a concentration camp.

Leroy42

peddlelies wrote: »

These are the toilets connected to drinking water fountains in those facilities released by Border security and confirmed by AOC on twitter. Now she's claiming someone told her the button was broken and she was forced to drink from the toilet water.



Bit different to what she claimed originally.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1145762201619357696

Hold on. Are you telling me that having to drink water from the toilet rather than a fountain would in your head be perfectly reasonable. Remembering that people are putting their bare arse on the toilet and defecating into the bowl?

Is that your line? Really? You are claiming that AOC was wrong to suggest they didn't have water to drink because the button wasn't working when it is the same supply?

Funny, because when Trump says something we all are supposed to interpret what he meant but with AOC until she specifically details ot then it is fake?

Manic Moran

TomOnBoard wrote: »

AOC has certainly stuck her head above the parapet in her comments on the visit to a Border Patrol migrant holding area. She is reported as saying that she saw migrants drinking out of toilets due to a lack of drinking water and other facilities, and that she felt unsafe in the last place they visited (the implication being she was made feel unsafe by CBP and their actions. A CBP official denies her claim categorically.

Now if this is true, heads at all levels to the top need to roll. If it is not true and AOC has told lies, then she'll be annihilated. .

The toilet water thing is true. Sort of.

The plumbing facilities are installed in modules. To make the plumbing easier, the toilet and the drinking water fountain are installed in the same module. So to drink, you go to the toilet. See image.
https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5d1b29dda17d6c1bf5115e35-1536-768.jpg
Thus the quote is entirely out of context. AOC may not have been aware of the fine details of center construction.
A similar... interpretation question has come up with the photos of her getting emotional at the center she visited. The presentation implied that she was tearing up at the sight of the detained migrants on the other side of a fence. The counter was that she was crying at a parking lot entrance at an open gate. The reality is that it wasn't a parking lot, but neither was she exactly experiencing much as she wasn't allowed past the gate to get to the center. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/aoc-empty-parking-lot/

Igotadose wrote: »

Both are odious, however in his defense, Bolton did what many young men did during the Vietnam era, took one of the legal deferments available by joining the National Guard. Many young men did.

Of course he was hypocritical about supporting the war and then hiding from the draft. Plenty didn't support the war and did what Bolton did.

But, and it's a big difference, Trump simply bought himself a medical deferment, the well-known bone spurs.

So, Bolton's bad, Trump's still worse, *he* could've joined the national guard but instead banged around studio 54 during the war, as he likes to brag about.

Going on one of my informational tangents, it is worth noting that most of the regular army did not go to Vietnam either. The level of training they had was needed in Korea and Germany. Some 38,000 Guardsmen were activated during the Vietnam war, and something a lot of folks miss out in the Bush Air Guard thing is that he signed on as a fighter pilot a month after the first Air National Guard fighter squadron arrived for service in Vietnam (120th TFS, Colorado Air Guard) in April 1968 in Phan Rang (Joined shortly afterwards at the same base by a combat engineer battalion of the Utah Army National Guard). Joining the Guard in the late 1960s was not as safe a choice as some claim today. (And, of course, if the balloon went up anywhere else, decidedly less safe. It was still the height of the Cold War, remember).

greenfield21 wrote: »

Does no one here really see Trump's ideas, policies etc. gaining further support as time goes on?I don't want to get into the details of im migration and global trade among other topics but there is definitely alot more discussion now and it looks like those topics aren't going to disappear whether Trump's in power or not.

His in particular? I'm not sure what they are these days. But if you go beyond the fact that he's a terrible messenger/arguer for some of the 'sides' of arguments, that doesn't mean that the arguments are going away. Instead, there will be far better orators and debaters with less baggage who will take up the same arguments. Trump going away will make things better, but anyone who believes that the US will be all happy and unified afterwards is going to be sorely disappointed. The dividing lines will be just as strong, except the arguments will no longer be distracted by character assessments.

peddlelies

pixelburp wrote: »

the fair question beyond the politics is whether that water is even potable in the first place

The water is potable. Obviously I agree the conditions are bad but there has to be an honest distinction between sticking your head in a toilet bowl and using a water fountain. She said it for shock value. I think those border agents deserve a bit more respect than that, ignoring the claims of sexual and physical intimidation. They should release the videos of her visit because imo the reports of her shouting at agents is likely to be true.

Leroy42

peddlelies wrote: »

If she's grossly exaggerating things or straight out lying she deserves to be called out on it just like Trump. The beneficiaries of lies while an obvious noble cause in this case should not take precedent over that.

She's claiming she was physically and sexually intimated which are outrageous claims. She was in the company of dozens who also made the trip. She claimed she toured the entire facility. There's contrasting reports that she shouted at agents once she arrived and only toured one part of the facility.

Given that there's cameras everywhere in those facilities maybe the truth will come out.

Are you certain she wasn't intimated? How do you possibly know that to be true? You called it a lie so where is your proof?

Grossly exaggerating things? You have seen the pictures on the news I hope? Would you say it is humane? Imagine if the rest of the world started treating US criminals in the same way? US would probably launch missiles or impose sanctions.

So she shouted at agents. And so? That debunks what she said and what the pictures show? Maybe the agents were doing something she didn'y like, like maybe trying to intimidate her.

It is no stretch to think they were told to treat her that way and that if they got in trouble Trump would pardon them. I mean he has a history of that.

I love you're last line

Given that there's cameras everywhere in those facilities maybe the truth will come out.

. But you have already decided the 'truth' already and it is all based on AOC being wrong.

You should be ashamed that the USA is treating anybody like this. I would expect better treatment of prisoners of war.

Midlife

peddlelies wrote: »

Amazon's statement

"After much thought and deliberation, we’ve decided not to move forward with our plans to build a headquarters for Amazon in Long Island City, Queens," the Seattle-based Amazon said in the release.

"For Amazon, the commitment to build a new headquarters requires positive, collaborative relationships with state and local elected officials who will be supportive over the long-term. While polls show that 70% of New Yorkers support our plans and investment, a number of state and local politicians have made it clear that they oppose our presence and will not work with us to build the type of relationships that are required to go forward with the project we and many others envisioned in Long Island City,"

"We are deeply grateful to Governor Cuomo, Mayor de Blasio, and their staffs, who so enthusiastically and graciously invited us to build in New York City and supported us during the process,"

Poll found she was the main villain according to New Yorkers. She wasn't solely responsible but her anti Amazon rhetoric and condemnation of the deal is there for all to see publicly. Her own job approval fell rapidly afterwards.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/nyregion/newyorktoday/AOC-Amazon-nyc.html

So when Trump said 'taking on the corporations' it only applied to him?

Should all areas just give Amazon what they want?

peddlelies

Leroy42 wrote: »

Hold on. Are you telling me that having to drink water from the toilet rather than a fountain would in your head be perfectly reasonable. Remembering that people are putting their bare arse on the toilet and defecating into the bowl?

I have no idea where you've gotten that from. That's not what I'm saying at all.

Cortez claimed people were kept in rooms with no water and were being forced to drink from toilets.

peddlelies

Midlife wrote: »

So when Trump said 'taking on the corporations' it only applied to him?

Should all areas just give Amazon what they want?

Criticize Cortez for her Amazon stance, but Trump.

Call out a Cortez lie, but Trump.

The Amazon investment in NYC would have brought 25000 jobs to NYC and $27 billion in tax revenue. 70% of New Yorkers wanted it. It's fair to criticize someone lambasting that deal, is it not?

Leroy42

And if the fountain button is not working then where do they get the water from.....yes the toilet. This really isn't that hard.

But fine, you want to argue over whether the buttons are working or not. You won't believe it until someone you actually like tells you and even then you will probably claim the plumber if a DNC plant.

The bigger issue here, or at least should be for any rational human, is that these people are being treated like this.

Again, I ask, how do you think the US and Trump would react if US citizens were to be kept in these types of conditions? Say the EU simply passed a law tomorrow stating that any US citizen that committed a crime within the EU could be seperated from their families, held without due process and crammed in totally overcrowded cells.

Do you think Trump would simply accept it? Maybe ask if all the button were broken or just some of them?

Take off you political glasses for a few minutes.

Itssoeasy

Leroy42 wrote: »

Check out this answer from Trump about how dirty US cities are (when compared to the cleanliness of Japan).

Clearly Trump hadn't a breeze and was just riffing, but it gives a good insight into his thinking.

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1145891322127114240


He even manages to place the blame on the liberals!

The transcript of his answer to the question was painful to read as at least to me there is no clear train of thought to it. It's just stuff he's saying.

Leroy42

peddlelies wrote: »

Criticize Cortez for her Amazon stance, but Trump.

Call out a Cortez lie, but Trump.

The Amazon investment in NYC would have brought 25000 jobs to NYC and $27 billion in tax revenue. 70% of New Yorkers wanted it. It's fair to criticize someone lambasting that deal, is it not?

Because it wasn't down to just AOC. Which is entirely different because Trump as POTUS can actually do things. Like when he complained about Harleys causing some of his supporters to stop buying them. That was entirely his doing.

What lie has AOC said?

peddlelies

Leroy42 wrote: »

Take off you political glasses for a few minutes.

Gee whiz, not that long ago I thought it was a manufactured crisis. What happened?

Itssoeasy

Has there been any update on why the VP mike pence abruptly left Air Force two before leaving for a scheduled event but it wasn't a family issue but wouldn't say if it was a national security issue but they'll let the people know in a few weeks.

Leroy42

peddlelies wrote: »

Gee whiz, not that long ago I thought it was a manufactured crisis. What happened?

Yet again you fail to answer anything. Is it because you can't answer truthfully and still be on side?

Trump made it a crisis, remember it is still a national emergency, but the issue is not whether people are coming over the border, everyone accepts that.

The issue is how they are being treated and why they are being treated that way and why Americans are willing for their country to act in this way.

Would Americans accept the same in return? Would they accept it if China or the EU treated any US criminal in the same way?

Its fine if you can't bring yourself out of your political box to be the reality of what is in front of you, there are millions of Americans just like you that have suspended any sense of morality or justice just to get one over the 'libs'.

You may be able to fool yourself but you aren't fooling anyone here.

Professor Moriarty

BBC reporting on some terrible conditions discovered by inspectors in border camps. Some damning photos too. A quote from the article:

At the facilities, the inspectors found that 30% of the detained children had been held for longer than the 72 hours permitted. Some had no access to showers or hot meals and had little access to clean clothes.

Itssoeasy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

BBC reporting on some terrible conditions discovered by inspectors in border camps. Some damning photos too. A quote from the article:

At the facilities, the inspectors found that 30% of the detained children had been held for longer than the 72 hours permitted. Some had no access to showers or hot meals and had little access to clean clothes.

The photos don't give a good impression.

Professor Moriarty

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The photos don't give a good impression.

No indeed. The BBC describes them as "jarring".

mcmoustache

batgoat wrote: »

They are still being kept in inhumane conditions, with no right to medical care in unhygienic conditions where people have died and continue to die.

Yeah but they're not being forced to drink from a toilet so it's totally ok now.

peddlelies

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yet again you fail to answer anything. Is it because you can't answer truthfully and still be on side?

Trump made it a crisis, remember it is still a national emergency, but the issue is not whether people are coming over the border, everyone accepts that.

No they don't. Not everyone accepts people coming in their country illegally.

"By contrast, illegal immigration is the highest-ranked national problem among GOP voters, but it ranks lowest among the 18 issues for Democratic voters (75% and 19%, respectively, say it is a very big problem)." (PEW)

The issue is how they are being treated and why they are being treated that way and why Americans are willing for their country to act in this way.

Would Americans accept the same in return? Would they accept it if China or the EU treated any US criminal in the same way?

There's been a big upsurge in 2019 with people crossing the border so you can account that to Trump if you wish. If you want to make it a humanitarian issue those facilities are the same as they've always been. Yes Trump separated families, I don't deny that obviously.

I get a good laugh at talking about countries like China and how they treat immigrants or criminals. They put Muslims and other minorities into actual prison camps and "reeducation" centers, not the feeble dream "concentration camps" the Democrats claim which don't exist in the US.

Its fine if you can't bring yourself out of your political box to be the reality of what is in front of you, there are millions of Americans just like you that have suspended any sense of morality or justice just to get one over the 'libs'.

You may be able to fool yourself but you aren't fooling anyone here.

So you're a spokesperson for everyone else, and your morality is almighty and unquestionable, is that it? I have sympathy for people in that situation but it's not a black and white issue. 60+ % of Women are raped coming over that border, drugs are trafficked, Children used as pawns. Conditions should be improved. The last year + the Democrats claimed there was no crisis down there and it was manufactured. The party you support encourages illegal immigration with incentives like sanctuary cities, driving licences and the proposed free healthcare the 2020 runners are offering all for future votes.

Christy42

peddlelies wrote: »

No they don't. Not everyone accepts people coming in their country illegally.

"By contrast, illegal immigration is the highest-ranked national problem among GOP voters, but it ranks lowest among the 18 issues for Democratic voters (75% and 19%, respectively, say it is a very big problem)." (PEW)



There's been a big upsurge in 2019 with people crossing the border so you can account that to Trump if you wish. If you want to make it a humanitarian issue those facilities are the same as they've always been. Yes Trump separated families, I don't deny that obviously.

I get a good laugh at talking about countries like China and how they treat immigrants or criminals. They put Muslims and other minorities into actual prison camps and "reeducation" centers, not the feeble dream "concentration camps" the Democrats claim which don't exist in the US.

Its fine if you can't bring yourself out of your political box to be the reality of what is in front of you, there are millions of Americans just like you that have suspended any sense of morality or justice just to get one over the 'libs'.



So you're a spokesperson for everyone else, and your morality is almighty and unquestionable, is that it? The party you support encourages illegal immigration with incentives like sanctuary cities, driving licences and the proposed free healthcare the 2020 runners are offering all for future votes.

I mean. I am not sure anyone here defends China's human rights record? And bringing it up just seems to be damning the US camps with faint praise.

I think it is just treating those who do come with some respect really. I mean I am not sure anyone is making that journey over a driving licence. They are coming either way to the nearest 1st world country they can reach by land really. I doubt the vast, vast majority of them have clue what they are entitled to on the other side of the border when they leave their homes.

As you say there has been a big upsurge in 2019. They are not exactly being treated better in 2019 than in 2018 so it seems likely there are other issues behind their decision to leave their homes and travel hundreds of miles.

relax carry on

At some point Trump's supporters are going to have to accept that whatever deal they have made with themselves to continue supporting him includes this:

The Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) internal watchdog found squalid conditions in several detention centers for migrant families and children in Texas, including "serious" overcrowding, minors going without hot meals for days and detainees begging not to be returned to their cells, according to a new report released Tuesday.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dhs-inspector-general-report-reveals-squalid-conditions-at-migrant-detention-centers/

Leroy42

Peddlelies, what a load of whataboutery.

It really is staggering simple. Do you accept that these conditions are justified?

Would you accept if other countries treated US citizens that had committed a crime that a certain segment of the population didn't like be treated in the same way?

DrumSteve

Let's be honest, if it was a bunch of white kids in these camps they would be shut down tomorrow.