Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

mcmoustache

antix80 wrote: »

I usually scan anti-trump hit pieces for the presence of the "very fine people" hoax and then can disregard the entire article.

Him saying that is on video.

Igotadose

If you want to read Trump hit pieces, read the Rude Pundit. NSFW.

antix80

mcmoustache wrote: »

Him saying that is on video.

The video is edited to remove the bit where he specifically says he's not talking about neo-nazis.

A similar video did the rounds where Obama said "you didn't built that." As with the "very fine people" hoax, this clip was taken out of context.

duploelabs

antix80 wrote: »

I usually scan anti-trump hit pieces for the presence of the "very fine people" hoax and then can disregard the entire article.

There you have it folks, if you want a working example of how confirmation bias manifests itself, we have it here in the quoted post

antix80

duploelabs wrote: »

There you have it folks, if you want a working example of how confirmation bias manifests itself, we have it here in the quoted post

It's not confirmation bias.
And I'm being facetious.

I am fairly certain the "very fine people" argument that Trump is racist is a hoax.
Here are some detailed essays by Scott Adams:
https://www.scottadamssays.com/2019/04/30/the-fine-people-hoax-funnel/
https://www.scottadamssays.com/2019/08/09/the-biden-campaign-admits-its-central-theme-is-a-lie/

I'm not saying Trump is racist or isn't racist. All I'm saying is the "very fine people" argument is a hoax. It intentionally takes words out of context by either snipping the quote or only playing part of the recording. It's inclusion in any recent article discredits the article because by now authors should have taken the time to listen to the full quote given that there are literally thousands of voices on the "other side" appealing that people judge the quote in its entirety. It seems like a dog-whistle anti-trump journalists drop in their articles as if to say "look, you know and I know this is an anti-Trump hit-piece, switch off your brain and grab the kleenex, you're going to love this one"

Manic Moran

Igotadose wrote: »

Taibbi's being pretty even handed and has been for the last few years. Definitely worth reading, he pretty much understands how Trump does his thing. He predicted Trump would win in 2016, among other things.

And yeah, he doesn't like Trump.

It seems to be a reasonable article, even with the anti-Trump bias. You don't need to like Trump to understand how Democrats are shooting their own election chances.

rossie1977

antix80 wrote: »

The video is edited to remove the bit where he specifically says he's not talking about neo-nazis.

A similar video did the rounds where Obama said "you didn't built that." As with the "very fine people" hoax, this clip was taken out of context.

Obama wasn't trying to pin blame on others while attempting to defend a group which marched with tiki torches and killed a protestor or tried calling a confederate leader a great guy.

Stallingrad

Was discussing the Obama v Trump era with my brother last night. It's a depressing thing to do. Obama arrived at the White House as the first black President, and in a similar way that Mandela understood the worlds' eyes would be on him, Obama deported himself and the Presidency with intelligence, grace and dignity from day one. He understood that the Presidency was and meant. No scandals, no idiocy, no national humiliation. Not everyone liked him, fine, but as a figurehead for the US he was beyond reproach.

How the county has flipped to this new reality with all it's daily embarrassments, the US now a laughing stock, it's leader reluctantly entertained abroad, the sucking up to dictators, the attacks on planned parenthood, climate change denial, the toxic agenda, etc I won't go on, you know the deal. It's been an horrific shift, and the US has been horribly damaged. We had hoped he would become Presidential, instead he has demoted and demeaned the role of the Presidency to that of a lying bluffer.

We have to remind ourselves this is not normal, despite being punch drunk we have to hold on to the hope the the world and the US deserve and want better for itself, and that those voices will be loud enough in 2020.

rocksolidfat

antix80 wrote: »

It's not confirmation bias.

It is, though:

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that affirms one's prior beliefs or hypotheses.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for desired outcomes, emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched-beliefs.

What you did was see a negative article about Trump, and by your own admission immediately went about trying to find something in it that you disagreed with. Once you found something you disagreed with, you then tried to claim that was enough for you to both ignore and disavow anything and everything in the article.





Of course, all of this leaves out the inconvenient fact that the Charlottesville rally which Trump claimed had "very fine people" on both sides, was a white supremacist rally that was organised by people who are very open about their white supremacist and neo nazi outlooks. This is why is was absolutely littered with all manner of white supremacist groups, flags, paraphernalia, etc.

Not only that, but it was the third such neo nazi rally in Charlottesville in the summer of 2017 (something that doesn't get mentioned too often), the first of which was organised by one of America's most well-known neo Nazis in Richard Spencer in May, the second of which was organised by the KKK itself in July. In these they lauded Donald Trump as 'their guy', and even Gavin McInnes of the Proud Boys (a pretty extremist right wing group to be mild) refused to go because, in his own words quoted below, he was trying to not be associated with neo Nazis.

Trump's "very fine people" comment would be as clear racist dog whistle as you could see, if not for the fact that he accidentally pulled the soccer referees whistle out by mistake and let everybody know what he meant.

On May 13, 2017, white supremacist Richard Spencer led a rally in Charlottesville to protest the city's plans to remove the statue of Lee. The event involved protesters holding torches near the statue. That same night, a candlelight counterprotest took place.[50]

The Ku Klux Klan held another rally in Charlottesville on July 8.[51] About 50 Klan members and 1,000 counterprotesters gathered at a loud but nonviolent rally.[52] David Duke, the former KKK grand wizard, spoke calling the demonstrations a "turning point" saying, "We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back."[53] In opposition to the rally, the Charlottesville Clergy Collective created a safe space at First United Methodist Church, which was used by over 600 people.[51]

...

Prominent far-right figures in attendance included National Policy Institute Chairman and white supremacist Richard Spencer,[67] entertainer and internet troll Baked Alaska,[67] former Libertarian Party candidate Augustus Invictus,[68] former Ku Klux Klan Imperial Wizard David Duke,[69] Identity Evropa leader Nathan Damigo,[70] Traditionalist Workers Party leader Matthew Heimbach,[67] Right Stuff founder Mike Enoch,[67] Eric Striker of The Daily Stormer,[71] League of the South founder and leader Michael Hill,[9] Red Ice host and founder Henrik Palmgren,[72] The Rebel Media commentator Faith Goldy,[73] Right Side Broadcasting Network host Nick Fuentes,[74] YouTube personality James Allsup,[74] Altright.com European editor Daniel Friberg,[75] former Business Insider CTO Pax Dickinson,[76] Right Stuff blogger Johnny Monoxide,[77] Daily Stormer writers Robert "Azzmador" Ray and Gabriel "Zeiger" Sohier-Chaput,[78] Daily Caller contributor and rally organizer Jason Kessler,[79] and Radical Agenda host Christopher Cantwell.[80][81] Gavin McInnes, the leader of the self-described "Western chauvinist" Proud Boys was invited to attend but declined because of an unwillingness "to be associated with explicit neo-Nazis" although the militia wing of the group the aforementioned Fraternal Order of the Alt-Knights did attend.[21] In June, ahead of the rally, McInnes declared that "we need to distance ourselves from them"

The equivalent here would be if during Obama's term, Louis Farrakhan ran an anti-white rally, followed by Al Qaeda (or pick your Islamic terror group here) running another only weeks after, and then finally a whole litany of Islamic terror groups ran a third one that saw them launching a terrorist attack that ended in murder... and then Obama came out and talked about how each side had "very fine people". And only did so after basically being forced to for days on end.

That of course never happened, because if it had Obama (or any pre-Trump president) would have likely been kicked out of office by the end of the month, and if his party stood by him their popularity would torpedo into the ground. But can I ask, if Obama did that, would you be defending him on the matter?

Igotadose

Thehill.com reporting Trump fired Bolton.

I wonder what's up - something due to the failed Taliban meeting?

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/460702-trump-fires-nsc-adviser-bolton

duploelabs

Igotadose wrote: »

Thehill.com reporting Trump fired Bolton.

I wonder what's up - something due to the failed Taliban meeting?

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/460702-trump-fires-nsc-adviser-bolton

Confirmed

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1171452880055746560?s=19

Water John

Bolton is fired
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/sep/10/trump-news-today-latest-economy-north-carolina-republicans-live

One could call it, a bolt from the blue.

Itssoeasy

Bye john Bolton.

Igotadose

Good riddance to Bolton. Another fake tough guy making stuff up as he goes along, and always ending up in some cushy high-level government appointment.

More churn. Probably keeps the US from doing something stupid for a little while.

rocksolidfat

Whatever the reasoning, at least this is a good thing. Not a net positive as Trump was the one who brought the war criminal in from the cold, but at least an undoing of an absolutely terrible decision - and one that actually had a bit of bipartisan agreement as to being just that; awful. Bolton is one of the worst people to play a prominent role in global politics in the last several decades.

He also dodged the Vietnam draft by joining the national reserve, while still cheer leading it from the sidelines.

Hande hoche!

Great news. Might calm things down with bomb Iran segment of the US defense apparatus.

Brian?

First thing Trump has done I 100% agree with.

hotmail.com

Stallingrad wrote: »

Was discussing the Obama v Trump era with my brother last night. It's a depressing thing to do. Obama arrived at the White House as the first black President, and in a similar way that Mandela understood the worlds' eyes would be on him, Obama deported himself and the Presidency with intelligence, grace and dignity from day one. He understood that the Presidency was and meant. No scandals, no idiocy, no national humiliation. Not everyone liked him, fine, but as a figurehead for the US he was beyond reproach.

How the county has flipped to this new reality with all it's daily embarrassments, the US now a laughing stock, it's leader reluctantly entertained abroad, the sucking up to dictators, the attacks on planned parenthood, climate change denial, the toxic agenda, etc I won't go on, you know the deal. It's been an horrific shift, and the US has been horribly damaged. We had hoped he would become Presidential, instead he has demoted and demeaned the role of the Presidency to that of a lying bluffer.

We have to remind ourselves this is not normal, despite being punch drunk we have to hold on to the hope the the world and the US deserve and want better for itself, and that those voices will be loud enough in 2020.

The amount of bombing carried out under Obama really should horrify Irish people, in particular the thousands of bombs dropped by drones.

How this doesn't amount to a scandal and a national humiliation is something I don't understand.

Brian?

hotmail.com wrote: »

The amount of bombing carried out under Obama really should horrify Irish people, in particular the thousands of bombs dropped by drones.

How this doesn't amount to a scandal and a national humiliation is something I don't understand.

Obama was at least honest about what he was doing. Not that it made it right.

It's Trump policy to no longer report on civilian deaths from drone strikes.

What about that for some whataboutery?

hotmail.com

Brian? wrote: »

hotmail.com wrote: »

The amount of bombing carried out under Obama really should horrify Irish people, in particular the thousands of bombs dropped by drones.

How this doesn't amount to a scandal and a national humiliation is something I don't understand.

Obama was at least honest about what he was doing. Not that it made it right.

It's Trump policy to no longer report on civilian deaths from drone strikes.

What about that for some whataboutery?

My point is that Irish people should be horrified by any bombing carried out by America, not matter who carried it out.

Brian?

hotmail.com wrote: »

My point is that Irish people should be horrified by any bombing carried out by America, not matter who carried it out.

We are, I thought.

theguzman

Great News and if Bolton had his way World War III would probably be over now and most of the middle east turned into glass.

Even the biggest hater of Trump will begrudgingly accept this is a good thing. Hopefully we see a more moderate person replace Bolton.

hotmail.com

Brian? wrote: »

hotmail.com wrote: »

My point is that Irish people should be horrified by any bombing carried out by America, not matter who carried it out.

We are, I thought.

Not with the praise heaped onto Obama here. You implied above that at least Obama was honest about it. Have you lost any sense of realness during this Trump circus?

FrostyJack

theguzman wrote:

Even the biggest hater of Trump will begrudgingly accept this is a good thing. Hopefully we see a more moderate person replace Bolton.

Yeah but what comicbook villain is next in the list. It isn't like any of his other cabinet positions got improvements when they were replaced.

eire4

Brian? wrote: »

We are, I thought.

I know I certainly am. Obama was and is a great orator sadly he was a horrible president from the military standpoint with the mass drone strikes and the number of innocents he killed as well as the massive expansion of the orwellian surveillance state within the US. He was yet another US president who became hand in glove with the military establishment in the US and indeed sadly made it even more powerful and dangerous both to the citizens of its own country and to the rest of the world.

mcmoustache

hotmail.com wrote: »

The amount of bombing carried out under Obama really should horrify Irish people, in particular the thousands of bombs dropped by drones.

Lots of people were unhappy with the continued bombings, arming syrian rebels, Libya, TPP, his failure to close Guantanimo and lots of other stuff. The threads are still available. This idea that Obama was beyond criticism is some daft retro-projection being pushed by MAGA heads.

Sure, he may have been more popular internationally than Trump but being able to speak English and work with allies instead of starting silly trade wars goes a long way.

It's worth taking a look at the old threads about him. You might notice a distinct lack of the MAGA head analogue. Obama had plenty of flaws and people weren't afraid to point them out but more importantly, you didn't have queues of fanboys popping in to spin and bend reality to avoid facing the fact that he was completely unfit for office.

hotmail.com

mcmoustache wrote: »

hotmail.com wrote: »

The amount of bombing carried out under Obama really should horrify Irish people, in particular the thousands of bombs dropped by drones.

Lots of people were unhappy with the continued bombings, arming syrian rebels, Libya, TPP, his failure to close Guantanimo and lots of other stuff. The threads are still available. This idea that Obama was beyond criticism is some daft retro-projection being pushed by MAGA heads.

Sure, he may have been more popular internationally than Trump but being able to speak English and work with allies instead of starting silly trade wars goes a long way.

It's worth taking a look at the old threads about him. You might notice a distinct lack of the MAGA head analogue. Obama had plenty of flaws and people weren't afraid to point them out but more importantly, you didn't have queues of fanboys popping in to spin and bend reality to avoid facing the fact that he was completely unfit for office.

The original poster made the point that Obama was scandal free - a point that is consistently made about Obama.

I just think this is nonsense. Surely the bombing and killing of thousands of people is the gravest scandal of all.

rossie1977

hotmail.com wrote: »

The amount of bombing carried out under Obama really should horrify Irish people, in particular the thousands of bombs dropped by drones.

How this doesn't amount to a scandal and a national humiliation is something I don't understand.

The drone stuff made nearly weekly headline news under Obama and people rightly were critical of him over it.

But fact is drone strikes and civilian deaths due to drone strikes have ramped up massively under Trump and there is barely a word from the mainstream media in the US or UK about it...

Kermit.de.frog

Bolton saying he wasn't fired

https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1171455806069305346

They never learn about the type of person Trump is who does not give a damn about anyone.

Rjd2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Bolton saying he wasn't fired

https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1171455806069305346

They never learn about the type of person Trump is who does not give a damn about anyone.

Its John bolton and he is gone. Who gives a **** how? Heck in fact the nastier the better.

https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/1171467292430852096

Very good tweet from Jeet. Neocon warmonger abominations like Kristol and Boot have reinvented themselves in this Trump era, be interesting to see if Bolton tries the same trick.