Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

one armed dwarf

Is the "Trump set a trap" stuff a QAnon theory or something? They always reshape these events as complicated 4D chess maneuvers.

ub52

valoren wrote: »

When someone (CIA agent) is working for the US government how exactly are they spying when they report/blow the whistle on what they find about the US government TO the US government? They did their job commendably and we likely would know nothing about the call if not for them blowing the whistle.

CIA is FORBIDDEN to carry out work on US politicians, see the problem?

ub52

Remember this same rigmarole has happened a dozen times now, and each and every time Trump has come up smelling of roses and the Dems looking deranged, this will be no different, screen cap this, and i will graciously accept you apologies in a few weeks.

aloyisious

ub52 wrote: »

So Trump wins big again, it now looks like the leak was a CIA agent spying on the Whitehouse, 100% illegal, no if and or buts, proof positive of a Deep state working to undermine the office of the President of the United States.
This will fire up Trumps base no end and swing the neutrals around to him as well, seems that Trump set a trap and the Dem’s took it hook line and sinker.
Once this is proven, Trump will have the support of the people to gut the Government of deep state people, and the Dem’s will have to support him or look like that are undemocratic, and dare i say the worst off all unAmerican!

I see you put a lot of faith in Twitter sources around here, and thats you problem.
In USA Twitter has 20million who tweet on a regular basis, and 10% of these are responsible for 90% of tweets.
These 10% (2million) who tweet the most are a grand total of 0.61% of the 327million population of the USA.
If we uses theses percentages for Ireland it is a grand total of 40,955 who are responsible for 90% of the tweets for the entire island of Ireland population of 6.655million.

The best estimates for the percentage of population who have paranoid delusional disorder is between .04-.07% of people, that some coincidence, the same number as those who drive twitter.

You say you like facts around here?
If you rely of Twitter for your news, it is no wonder the progressive left is loosing the plot.
According to Twitter Racists are everywhere!
According to Twitter Fascists are goose stepping down the main street of every town in the country!
According to Twitter Women are treated as second class citizens!
According to Twitter Homosexuals are at least 30% of the population!
According to Twitter Transexuals are at least 10% of the population!
The list goes on and on, twitter is a echo chamber, not only do you follow people you like/agree with, but you block those who you don’t.
My advice for you posters blinded by Twitter Derangement Syndrome is stay off Twitter for a month, interact with people in the real world and see that the Twitter world view is being led by 0.61% of the population, most likely the crazy ones.

You raised an important question, why has Don allowed a serving CIA officer to work in his White House given the officers obligations under the law where it comes to the reporting of illegal activities he/she sees and hears to the IG, given he/she would have to work with his/her eyes and ears open to what was going on around at work there?

Don seems to think twitter is an important way of communicating with the voter and put a lot of faith in it so is he responsible for it being an echo chamber? Would it not be an annoyance to him if people stayed away from it and his messages to them?

everlast75

ub52 wrote: »

Remember this same rigmarole has happened a dozen times now, and each and every time Trump has come up smelling of roses and the Dems looking deranged, this will be no different, screen cap this, and i will graciously accept you apologies in a few weeks.

When this racist, bully, incompetent gangster, snakeoil salesman of a "President" is gone, it will almost be worth the 3 years of complete and utter BS which we had to endure

aloyisious

ub52 wrote: »

CIA is FORBIDDEN to carry out work on US politicians, see the problem?

How does one work around US politicians when having ones eyes and ears open is necessary at work?

Timberrrrrrrr

aloyisious wrote: »

How does one work around US politicians when having ones eyes and ears open is necessary at work?

And their oath clearly states


https://work.chron.com/cia-oath-say-23447.html


What Does the CIA Oath Say?by M.T. Wroblewski

They’ve been glamorized and even satirized in countless movies, but the people who work for the Central Intelligence Agency pride themselves on being “the nation’s first line of defense” against U.S. adversaries. CIA employees are federal civil servants, which means that they take an oath to support and defend the Constitution. If you’re trying to picture yourself as a CIA employee, no doubt your loved ones will be lined up to snap your picture as you take the CIA’s solemn oath.

The CIA oath reads: “I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

Schooled CIA employees know that the Constitution also defines the role of federal employees: "To establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty."

Midlife

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Is the "Trump set a trap" stuff a QAnon theory or something? They always reshape these events as complicated 4D chess maneuvers.

Haha, that '4D chess' thing cracks me up every time I hear it.

everlast75

I don't know if anyone posted this before, but oh lordy, there are tapes...

https://twitter.com/Politidope/status/1177404929067143168?s=19

Christy42

everlast75 wrote: »

I don't know if anyone posted this before, but oh lordy, there are tapes...

https://twitter.com/Politidope/status/1177404929067143168?s=19

Definitely does not seem like a joke to me. Especially when it lines up with him calling for the death penalty for Chelsea Manning.

Granted his views on WikiLeaks are a little different but circumstances affect that.

PropJoe10

everlast75 wrote: »

I don't know if anyone posted this before, but oh lordy, there are tapes...

https://twitter.com/Politidope/status/1177404929067143168?s=19

Don't worry about it. I'm sure he's already denied even saying this. Cameras mean nothing nowadays. Hillary probably doctored it.

abff

What is it about the mindset of Trump supporters that makes them see everything through a reality twisting filter that portrays him as a hero and anyone who opposes him or stands up to him or criticises him in any way is a duplicitous monster who is part of a conspiracy to undermine the greatest human being who has ever lived? And they also seem to believe that every gaffe or blunder that he makes (or crime that he commits) is part of a Machiavellian plan to outwit his opposition that nobody other than true Trump supporters can understand. And they don't really understand it either, but that's OK, because they know that Trump is right and that's all that really matters.

I just don't get it.

one armed dwarf

abff wrote: »

What is it about the mindset of Trump supporters that makes them see everything through a reality twisting filter that portrays him as a hero and anyone who opposes him or stands up to him or criticises him in any way is a duplicitous monster who is part of a conspiracy to undermine the greatest human being who has ever lived? And they also seem to believe that every gaffe or blunder that he makes (or crime that he commits) is part of a Machiavellian plan to outwit his opposition that nobody other than true Trump supporters can understand. And they don't really understand it either, but that's OK, because they know that Trump is right and that's all that really matters.

I just don't get it.

It's why I was asking about QAnon, because some of the posters on here and in general across the web are constantly re-interpreting reality in this way.

The QAnon stuff is worrying I think cause it's hard to know if it's fringe or mainstream these days. It's a separate thing from just supporting Trump because you like his policies or whatever. It's the most echo-ey echo chamber ever where every fact and event is reshaped through the prism of what supports Trump's own vision of himself as someone who is always correct and never makes a mistake. Which requires you to buy into these complicated plot twists about deep state and Trump's own internal fightings with it that he has to do in secret and never reveal or whatever it is now until the endgame where he arrests a bunch of DNC pedos.

Well I think that's what it is about anyway, maybe there's a new narrative here

Penn

one armed dwarf wrote: »

It's why I was asking about QAnon, because some of the posters on here and in general across the web are constantly re-interpreting reality in this way.

The QAnon stuff is worrying I think cause it's hard to know if it's fringe or mainstream these days. It's a separate thing from just supporting Trump because you like his policies or whatever. It's the most echo-ey echo chamber ever where every fact and event is reshaped through the prism of what supports Trump's own vision of himself as someone who is always correct and never makes a mistake. Which requires you to buy into these complicated plot twists about deep state and Trump's own internal fightings with it that he has to do in secret and never reveal or whatever it is now until the endgame where he arrests a bunch of DNC pedos.

Well I think that's what it is about anyway, maybe there's a new narrative here

What's really insane is how quickly the hymn sheets seem to be disseminated for them all to sing from. I mean I've heard the term nothing burger before, but once the transcript of the call was released it was thrown about more times than I'd ever heard it before, even here.

peddlelies

abff wrote: »

What is it about the mindset of Trump supporters that makes them see everything through a reality twisting filter that portrays him as a hero and anyone who opposes him or stands up to him or criticises him in any way is a duplicitous monster who is part of a conspiracy to undermine the greatest human being who has ever lived? And they also seem to believe that every gaffe or blunder that he makes (or crime that he commits) is part of a Machiavellian plan to outwit his opposition that nobody other than true Trump supporters can understand. And they don't really understand it either, but that's OK, because they know that Trump is right and that's all that really matters.

I just don't get it.

Majority see him as someone standing up for their side in an era of perceived biased reporting and slight on conservative views in peak PC culture, he's their wrecking ball to all that. They know his flaws but will still support him because of my first sentence. They feel like they've been insulted and looked down upon. That would be average Trump supporters views imo and most of them I'd consider to be decent hard working people.

Then there's a much smaller group of people who regard almost every mainstream outlet literally as a wing of the DNC and only visit sites like the the_donald and Breitbart. They are purely absorbed by confirmation bias. They fell victims to mass disinformation campaigns during the 2016 election and still haven't gotten their heads out of it, only delved deeper. They literally see Trump as some form of godlike figure, believe every lie that comes out of his mouth, and believe any attack on him whether legitimate or not are coming from the "dark forces" at play.

It's very easy to become brainwashed politically spending tonnes of time on the internet, that doesn't just go for Trump supporters, it goes for everyone and whatever political beliefs they have. Trump is a different kettle of fish to what's been seen previously though, he's extremely manipulative.

one armed dwarf

There was a lot of talk about echo chambers and opinion bubbles during 2016, but these 4chan style communities do a lot to enforce the same with their whole 'lurk moar' mantra, where users are encouraged to not even post until they've absorbed the same opinions and meme culture as the rest of the herd.

I remember having a much more sympathetic view of GamerGate when it started, something which makes me feel very ashamed and embarrassed to think about now. I like to think of GG as the canary in the coal mine for where we have got ourselves now.

peddlelies

one armed dwarf wrote: »

There was a lot of talk about echo chambers and opinion bubbles during 2016, but these 4chan style communities do a lot to enforce the same with their whole 'lurk moar' mantra, where users are encouraged to not even post until they've absorbed the same opinions and meme culture as the rest of the herd.

I remember having a much more sympathetic view of GamerGate when it started, something which makes me feel very ashamed and embarrassed to think about now. I like to think of GG as the canary in the coal mine for where we have got ourselves now.

Totally agree with that if I didn't make it clear, the guy who killed those Muslims in New Zealand was a direct result of 4chan/8chan. Those sites are way more extreme than what you'd find on reddit and Breitbart etc.

marno21

abff wrote: »

What is it about the mindset of Trump supporters that makes them see everything through a reality twisting filter that portrays him as a hero and anyone who opposes him or stands up to him or criticises him in any way is a duplicitous monster who is part of a conspiracy to undermine the greatest human being who has ever lived? And they also seem to believe that every gaffe or blunder that he makes (or crime that he commits) is part of a Machiavellian plan to outwit his opposition that nobody other than true Trump supporters can understand. And they don't really understand it either, but that's OK, because they know that Trump is right and that's all that really matters.

I just don't get it.

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1177227150375686146

Exhibit A. There are many many supporters of his who only watch Fox News/conservative media. If this is your primary source of information it’s little surprise there are so many misinformed

everlast75

one armed dwarf wrote: »

It's why I was asking about QAnon, because some of the posters on here and in general across the web are constantly re-interpreting reality in this way.

The QAnon stuff is worrying I think cause it's hard to know if it's fringe or mainstream these days. It's a separate thing from just supporting Trump because you like his policies or whatever. It's the most echo-ey echo chamber ever where every fact and event is reshaped through the prism of what supports Trump's own vision of himself as someone who is always correct and never makes a mistake. Which requires you to buy into these complicated plot twists about deep state and Trump's own internal fightings with it that he has to do in secret and never reveal or whatever it is now until the endgame where he arrests a bunch of DNC pedos.

Well I think that's what it is about anyway, maybe there's a new narrative here

This is the thing. They know that the facts don't support their views, so they go with conspiracy theories in order to deflect. Nunes, Trump, Lewandowski all do it. Pop onto Hannity or Carlson and see them go deep state.

Trump was asked at the press conference two days ago about how he would feel if Obama went after one of his kids and he start talking about missing servers. It is all nonsense. Without naming any names here, 99% of the time you cannot get a straight answer from a Trump supporter to a straight question. It devolves into conspiracy theories, projection or insults.

Trump denies climate change, denies Russia interfered in the 2016 election, denies the KJU is building nuclear weapons, denies that MBS was involved in the killing of the journalist. They are all objective facts, but he'll be damned if he admits to it. And that's the problem - how do you engage with his supporters when they refuse to acknowledge plain and simple facts staring them in the face?

everlast75

marno21 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1177227150375686146

Exhibit A. There are many many supporters of his who only watch Fox News/conservative media. If this is your primary source of information it’s little surprise there are so many misinformed

Yep - I will always think of that lady who went to the Amash rally. When questioned after it, she said her primary source of "news" was conservative radio and tv, and that she had no idea there was anything in the Mueller report that detailed Trump's misconduct.

PropJoe10

everlast75 wrote: »

Yep - I will always think of that lady who went to the Amash rally. When questioned after it, she said her primary source of "news" was conservative radio and tv, and that she had no idea there was anything in the Mueller report that detailed Trump's misconduct.

It's a form of indoctrination. If you are told forcefully enough and often enough that left-wing ideas and media are evil and the only unbiased form of news is Fox, then you'll eventually start to believe it. It's hard to know how to even combat that, but Dems need to do a lot better at getting out there and opening people's eyes as to what's going on in the Trump administration.

abff

PropJoe10 wrote: »

It's a form of indoctrination. If you are told forcefully enough and often enough that left-wing ideas and media are evil and the only unbiased form of news is Fox, then you'll eventually start to believe it. It's hard to know how to even combat that, but Dems need to do a lot better at getting out there and opening people's eyes as to what's going on in the Trump administration.

I presume this indoctrination has gone so deep that even if he was found guilty and sent to jail, his supporters would believe it was a left wing conspiracy and that he had done nothing wrong. It's beyond sad.

spacecoyote

abff wrote: »

I presume this indoctrination has gone so deep that even if he was found guilty and sent to jail, his supporters would believe it was a left wing conspiracy and that he had done nothing wrong. It's beyond sad.

Reality is there are the die-hard trumpers & die-hard never trump groups.

Election will be battle for the middle ground & public impeachment hearings are the best way to get the message out there, even if it ultimately falls down in the Senate

Zubeneschamali

abff wrote: »

I presume this indoctrination has gone so deep that even if he was found guilty and sent to jail, his supporters would believe it was a left wing conspiracy and that he had done nothing wrong. It's beyond sad.

Nixon had an approval rating of 67% in 1973, although Watergate was already a common front page news story. From January on, a series of guilty pleas from those involved saw his popularity drop to 25% by year's end, but it stayed at 25% or so right up to his resignation.

Towards the end of his 2nd term, Dubya scraped 25% a few times, too.

I think Trump can rely on a solid 25% even if he is led away in handcuffs.

amandstu

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I think Trump can rely on a solid 25% even if he is led away in handcuffs.

Gold handcuffs,I hope And a solid gold sh*tter as well.

A personal doctor and solicitor (legal) would be required and he should be expected to attend Bible classes as this has been one of his few weaknesses.

Citizenship classes there will be no need for as we already know he is down with the people.

EltonJohn69

Was Pence the “spy” setting himself up for 2020 ?

amandstu

Anyone know how this is playing out in Ukrainean politics?

They are certainly in a difficult position ,depending on an "ally" like the US at present.

Has Zelensky done as well as he could in their eyes? See Avenatti is suggesting T may have targeted other politicians using "his" justice dept. Does that ring true?

Is he using it to dig up dirt on others or was this an opportunistic crime?

The Phantom Jipper

I wonder what other files they've moved and hidden in this more secure file depository. It sounds like the dumping ground for the records of him dodgy dealings. Hopefully the Democrats are able to investigate this treasure trove.

Itssoeasy

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

I wonder what other files they've moved and hidden in this more secure file depository. It sounds like the dumping ground for the records of him dodgy dealings. Hopefully the Democrats are able to investigate this treasure trove.

That's a question that needs to be answered alright. I mean I partially guessed that the US(along with other countries) had a system where sensitive information and the like was put to keep it secret and not let it fall into the wrong hands. I understand why that's necessary, but the natural next question when it was found that one call between the president and a foreign leader was placed in there when it shouldn't have been, is to ask is this the only one of this type in this system or are there others ? So, by doing something that wasn't necessary unless trump didn't want it seen he has led to questions being asked.

Btw, the audio of him talking about spy's and how the US used to deal with them is a very worrying thing for a US president to say. The punishment for treason isn't a slap on the wrist.

Gwen Cooper

Not sure if this is true, but I would believe it after seeing him speak after the impeachment was announced. I almost feel sorry for him. Almost.

##Mod Snip##

No random unsubstantiated tweets please