Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Outlaw Pete

everlast75 wrote: »

4 things about your hearsay nonsense

1) We. Have. The. White. House. Transcript. Trump's *own version* of what happened. The awful thing for Trump is, that's enough. Without any report, from anyone else, its grounds for investigation.

2) the report alligns perfectly with Trump's own notes. That is to say, Trump's note corroborate the report, which gives probative value of the report - it backs it up.

3) Trump's own IG AND Acting DNI say they checked into the report and THEY found it credible - are they partisan hacks too?

4) If you have a problem with the "evidence" of the whistleblower, then let's call the people the Whistleblower spoke to - see if the assertions stand up, because one thing is for certain, Trump abused his power *according to his own notes*, and no amount of whataboutery or lies can change that.

None of that contradicts what I just said.

You made a remark about how the 'heresay talking point' was now "irrelevant" given things which have transpired, but that is false.

everlast75

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

None of that contradicts what I just said.

Then those basic set of facts are agreed?

Super.

That's progress.

mcmoustache

I couldn't find any online sources showing when the change was made. The federalist demonstrated a form from May 2018 and August 2019 showing that there was a change and they show that it was last revised on the 24th of August but it's not clear that the change regarding the admissibility of second hand info happened at that time. The article tries to lead the reader to that conclusion but hey, that's most of the media for you. If they did change that rule just before the complaint, that would be a very interesting thing for the Trump administration to do. I guess we'll need to wait for Trump to explain it.

LFCFan

Reading forums where trump supporters try defending him while everyone else points at all the bleedin' obvious evidence as to why he's a fraud reminds me of reading the flat earth forums where flat earthists (trump supporters) continue to spout utter nonsense in the face of 100% irrefutable evidence. It's hilarious

duploelabs

LFCFan wrote: »

Reading forums where trump supporters try defending him while everyone else points at all the bleedin' obvious evidence as to why he's a fraud reminds me of reading the flat earth forums where flat earthists (trump supporters) continue to spout utter nonsense in the face of 100% irrefutable evidence. It's hilarious

Yeah and the majority chicken out when challenged with emperical evidence, much like the flat earthers

mcmoustache

LFCFan wrote: »

Reading forums where trump supporters try defending him while everyone else points at all the bleedin' obvious evidence as to why he's a fraud reminds me of reading the flat earth forums where flat earthists (trump supporters) continue to spout utter nonsense in the face of 100% irrefutable evidence. It's hilarious

In many ways it is but but it's a genuine problem these days. The number of people falling for this kind of stuff online is quite shocking. In the US, it's really bad, on both the right and the left but things over there are more tribal and critical thinking isn't valued enough.


It's not as bad over here but a lot of that tribal nonsense makes its way over her more often than I care for.

Outlaw Pete

duploelabs wrote: »

Yeah and the majority chicken out when challenged with emperical evidence, much like the flat earthers

You said, and I quote:

duploelabs wrote: »

There's the single call where Trump pressured Ukraine to investigate Hunter Biden and threatened to withhold aid if they didn't.

Now, aside from the fact that Zelensky said he wasn't even pushed much less "pressured" to investigate the Biden quid pro quo, can you show us the "emperical evidence" to backup your claim that Trump "threatened" to withhold aid if he did not? Cheers.

duploelabs

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You said, and I quote:


Now, aside from the fact that Zelensky said he wasn't even pushed much less "pressured" to investigate the Biden quid pro quo, can you show us the "emperical evidence" to backup your claim that Trump "threatened" to withhold aid if he did not? Cheers.

I did not ask that!

I asked four times what you thought of the Trump administration moving non-sensitive transcripts of phone calls to a code-word server reserved for the most secure classified of information. And each time you failed to answer

Water John

It doesn't matter what Zelensky says. We have the evidence.

mcmoustache

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You said, and I quote:


Now, aside from the fact that Zelensky said he wasn't even pushed much less "pressured" to investigate the Biden quid pro quo, can you show us the "emperical evidence" to backup your claim that Trump "threatened" to withhold aid if he did not? Cheers.

Did you really expect that he would say he was being pressured by Trump on TV at the UN?


In any case, the money was held back and Trump asked for something campaign related. It's clear enough to social creatures what was going on. 'Cos of the implication.

one armed dwarf

Yeah, what's Zelensky going to do. Say no?

duploelabs

mcmoustache wrote: »

Did you really expect that he would say he was being pressured by Trump on TV at the UN?


In any case, the money was held back and Trump asked for something campaign related. It's clear enough to social creatures what was going on. 'Cos of the implication.

Never thought I'd hear a Denis Reynolds reference here, but it sums up the whole situation perfectly

Midlife

Yeah, it's steadily gone from 'I disagree with your politics' to 'I disagree with your perception of reality'

Sadly Trump and his side are the ones with previous in this regard.

I mean, forget the dirt on Biden for a minute. He was actually asking the president of another country about a conspiracy theory DNC server he thought they had that his own advisors have told him is a conspiracy theory.

That's just flat out embarrassing.

He is clearly way out of his depth.

I'm sure it meant something to some people for a while. Change, America first etc. Unfortunately it's turned out to be an car crash of a presidency.

Bar getting impeached earlier, it's actually quite hard to say how he could have done worse.

Water John

Yes, Trump chasing a conspiracy theory is mad. He's critical thinking is clearly shredded, at this point. Was it Caligula made his horse a Senator? I think we are close to that level of lunacy.

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

Yes, Trump chasing a conspiracy theory is mad. He's critical thinking is clearly shredded, at this point. Was it Caligula made his horse a Senator? I think we are close to that level of lunacy.

He was going to make him consul rather than senator. But the horse would have 'sat' in the senate.

Itssoeasy

How trump and his allies can call this a witch hunt is taking the Piss. I mean the White House releases the transcript and confirmed reporting from news outlets so they have legitimatised the so called witch hunt.

marno21

Itssoeasy wrote: »

How trump and his allies can call this a witch hunt is taking the Piss. I mean the White House releases the transcript and confirmed reporting from news outlets so they have legitimatised the so called witch hunt.

It's how they have approached every scandal/****up/lie/mess in the administration to date. Fake news/MSM agenda/oh the Clintons etc. Nothing surprising about it but less and less people are falling for it

There have been many articles today about the State Dept ramping up investigations into Hillary Clinton's emails. I mean if that's not scraping the bottom of the barrel for a distraction I don't know what is.

everlast75

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

None of that contradicts what I just said.

You made a remark about how the 'heresay talking point' was now "irrelevant" given things which have transpired, but that is false.

Hey Pete, as you seem top have a penchant for conspiracy theories, what could explain this 180 by someone you recently posted who now is the strongest advocate for Trump...

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/727604522156228608?s=19

Itssoeasy

The rudy gulianni interview on face the nation on cbs this morning is like a bad trip. He’s mentioned George soros twice for some reason. He’s off his game.

peddlelies

Some cover for Trump here

https://www.wsj.com/articles/embarrassing-leaks-led-to-clampdown-on-trumps-phone-records-11569710889

"WASHINGTON—The White House moved to clamp down on access to records of presidential phone calls after problematic leaks of sensitive discussions early in the Trump administration, according to people with knowledge of the actions, culminating in the use of a secret national security server which is now central to the impeachment probe.

Back-to-back leaks of controversial remarks by President Trump during calls with leaders of Mexico and Australia resulted from an unusually loose record-distribution policy in the first days of the Trump White House, one of these people said, leading to the secret server’s eventual use for records of calls involving leaders of Saudi Arabia, Russia and Ukraine.

White House officials also moved to significantly limit the number of individuals who could listen in on many of his calls, or who could access the records after those calls were concluded, the people said."

everlast75

Complete and utter meltdown on Twitter, accusing Schiff of treason


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1178442762284404736?s=19


quoting a Fox contributor saying that there will be Civil War

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1178477539653771264?s=19


And goes full blown conspiracy theory trope machine..


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1178467237096775680?s=19

duploelabs

The whistle-blower has requested protection for fears of their safety

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/463585-lawyers-whistleblower-concerned-safety-report?amp=

duploelabs

peddlelies wrote: »

Some cover for Trump here

https://www.wsj.com/articles/embarrassing-leaks-led-to-clampdown-on-trumps-phone-records-11569710889

"WASHINGTON—The White House moved to clamp down on access to records of presidential phone calls after problematic leaks of sensitive discussions early in the Trump administration, according to people with knowledge of the actions, culminating in the use of a secret national security server which is now central to the impeachment probe.

Back-to-back leaks of controversial remarks by President Trump during calls with leaders of Mexico and Australia resulted from an unusually loose record-distribution policy in the first days of the Trump White House, one of these people said, leading to the secret server’s eventual use for records of calls involving leaders of Saudi Arabia, Russia and Ukraine.

White House officials also moved to significantly limit the number of individuals who could listen in on many of his calls, or who could access the records after those calls were concluded, the people said."

Yeah, I've been asking our own resident Sean Spicer about that but they've dodged the questions 4 times and then answered a completely different question that was never asked

FrostyJack

everlast75 wrote:

Hey Pete, as you seem top have a penchant for conspiracy theories, what could explain this 180 by someone you recently posted who now is the strongest advocate for Trump...

Probably to do with kompromat the Russians got off the GOP servers that haven't been released. He is isn't the only one to turn 180 after brief meeting with Trump. Hardly to do with his charm or wit.

everlast75

FrostyJack wrote: »

Probably to do with kompromat the Russians got off the GOP servers that haven't been released. He is isn't the only one to turn 180 after brief meeting with Trump. Hardly to do with his charm or wit.

Oh, that's definitely one that sounds plausible to me, but just wondering what Pete thinks caused it.

While he's at it, he might address Kevin McCarthy saying in 2016 that he thinks Trump is on Putin's payroll changing to now being a Trump supporter...

Tchaikovsky

everlast75 wrote: »

Complete and utter meltdown on Twitter, accusing Schiff of treason


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1178442762284404736?s=19


quoting a Fox contributor saying that there will be Civil War

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1178477539653771264?s=19


And goes full blown conspiracy theory trope machine..


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1178467237096775680?s=19

He also retweeted this parody account which is based on his fear of sharks:

https://twitter.com/tbasharks/status/1178311367880843266

Penn

He's retweeted accounts which promote conspiracy theories or even just hateful rhetoric about the Dems in the past, under the excuse that those accounts had a lot of followers so he thought they were valuable contributors. Now he's just retweeting bots with about 5 followers.

I mean, it'd be kinda funny if he wasn't President of the United States of America.

amandstu

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

He also retweeted this parody account which is based on his fear of sharks:

https://twitter.com/tbasharks/status/1178311367880843266

I am sure Giuliani has told him not to rise to the bate.

pixelburp

Penn wrote: »

He's retweeted accounts which promote conspiracy theories or even just hateful rhetoric about the Dems in the past, under the excuse that those accounts had a lot of followers so he thought they were valuable contributors. Now he's just retweeting bots with about 5 followers.

I mean, it'd be kinda funny if he wasn't President of the United States of America.

Ah but he's merely joking; that's the excuse trotted out every time he comes out with something stunningly inappropriate: whether it's raking forest floors, talking about the "2nd amendment crowd" responding to Democrats' leaning towards gun control, or suggesting whistle-blowers are executed as spies, Trump is only every "joking" and it's the Liberals who can't take a joke. It's flippant to say the least, but avoids the need for scrutiny of someone who SHOULD BE above it all.

I've said before there's an element of the sports-fan to Trump supporters, and this is part of it. We live in an era of shítposting, trolling and general anarchy as the "victimless" online hobby, so for the US President to himself be part of that emotionally adolescent behaviour, it delights those who'd say - yes - dogpiling on "the libs", or 16 eco activists is fun.

FrostyJack

pixelburp wrote: »

Ah but he's merely joking; that's the excuse trotted out every time he comes out with something stunningly inappropriate: whether it's raking forest floors, talking about the "2nd amendment crowd" responding to Democrats' leaning towards gun control, or suggesting whistle-blowers are executed as spies, Trump is only every "joking" and it's the Liberals who can't take a joke. It's flippant to say the least, but avoids the need for scrutiny of someone who SHOULD BE above it all.

I've said before there's an element of the sports-fan to Trump supporters, and this is part of it. We live in an era of shítposting, trolling and general anarchy as the "victimless" online hobby, so for the US President to himself be part of that emotionally adolescent behaviour, it delights those who'd say - yes - dogpiling on "the libs", or 16 eco activists is fun.

Penn Jillette was on Joe Rogan a few weeks ago and talked about the time he worked on the apprentice with him. He said he is the only person he has ever met that had no sense of humour so to say he is joking contradicts what Jillette says:
"‘Yeah, he’s crazy and he’s venal and he’s empty. Really weird stuff that you’ve never seen before. You have never seen someone who has never laughed sincerely and never made a joke…he will laugh in a bully way, ‘Ha ha, you look kinda fat, Joe’ (but he’ll never laugh at himself.) I never saw any humor in person. I also never saw him show any joy or understanding of music. And those two things are things that I connect with people very much on."

The White House Correspondents' dinner footage would also confirm that.