Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

peddlelies

You can kinda see where this whole thing is going already, it's going to end in a major constitutional crisis that will rock US politics and to use Trump's language, be the likes of which has never been seen before. Everything will come out by the time it's all over.

On one side you have a fairly unhinged Trump who will do anything to win the 2020 election no matter how immoral, backed by AG Barr, SoS Pompeo, majority of the Republican party but with some subtle cracks showing and then some less important individuals like prosecutors Durham, Guiliani and DiGenova who are doing a lot of shady digging. On the other side you have pretty much all the Democrats gunning for Trump along with some powerful media outlets who've got the goods, and this time, unlike the Russia accusations there is a solid foundation of proof and wrongdoing by the President. This is all happening 1 year before a Presidential election.

Most of us at this stage can agree Trump is unfit to be President, that doesn't mean he won't be removed from office though, far from it. He will do literally anything to prevent himself from being pushed out. If we thought 2016 was wild, better buckle up! As an outsider to all of this the spectacle in itself will be fascinating.

Overheal

I don't see a Constitutional Crisis here, since impeachment is verrrry constitutional.

A Constitutional Crisis arises in a scenario that the Constitution does not address or did not anticipate, eg. I would have called Congress not voting on or holding hearings for SCOTUS justices a CC.

I think the bigger CC with Trump has been people skirting around the problem of what, exactly (if anything), should a president constitutionally be allowed to 'get way with' ie. arguments that the POTUS as the chief law enforcer is beyond reproach, or even in some versions of the argument is strictly speaking incapable of committing a crime..

valoren

Of course Trump will fight tooth and nail to remain President. He has to as it's the only thing keeping the man out of prison.

aloyisious

For a reason as yet to be stated, the State Dept Inspector General has requested a meeting with the HOUSE AND SENATE committees tomorrow. Presumably the request has something to do with the Ukraine phonecall given how Mike Pompeo has gone on the attack against the committee stating it is trying to intimidate his Dept staffers over the matter. I can hardly see the Inspector General taking a pace forward with information that the committee is seeking from Mike Pompeo. If he was acting as a go-between for Mike Pompeo and the committee without the W/House being aware, I'd imagine Don would really let fly. He has to be aware of the reason the IG wants to meet the committee.

mcmoustache

aloyisious wrote: »

For a reason as yet to be stated, the State Dept Inspector General has requested a meeting with the senate committee tomorrow. Presumably the request has something to do with the Ukraine phonecall given how Mike Pompeo has gone on the attack against the committee stating it is trying to intimidate his Dept staffers over the matter. I can hardly see the Inspector General taking a pace forward with information that the committee is seeking from Mike Pompeo.

According to Scott Stedman, it's because Pompeo's office asked if the could discipline staff for cooperating with Congress.


https://twitter.com/ScottMStedman/status/1179156540835500032

aloyisious

mcmoustache wrote: »

According to Scott Stedman, it's because Pompeo's office asked if the could discipline staff for cooperating with Congress.


https://twitter.com/ScottMStedman/status/1179156540835500032

WOW!

Overheal

At least he asked for permission to retaliate against federal employees for helping the Congress exercise its Article I investigatory powers.

mcmoustache

Coincidentally, Zelenskyy has made an agreement with Russia. Basically giving up Donbass by the sounds of it. Ukranians are protesting.

This may have nothing whatsoever to do with any phonecalls.

aloyisious

There's mention now on CNN that the transcript of the conversation between both presidents provided covered ten minutes but the actual call apparently lasted thirty minutes, leaving 20 odd minutes of the call transcript not yet revealed by the White House, if the call did last 30 odd minutes. Its also been mentioned elsewhere that Don initiated the phone-call to Zelensky himself. It seems coincidentally that the US ambassador to Ukraine was moved home to the US in May after she became the target of Don Jnr. She is still a serving officer in the State Dept.

If the ceding of the Donbass region to Russia is correct, it seems either Zelensky feels it is a safe move by him following his recent election or he has no choice in the matter, recognizing the result of the Russian invasion as a fait accompli by Russia. Were it to turn out that the phone-call between Don and Vlad also reportedly on the extra secure server covers regional matter between Russia and Ukraine, and not involving US interests, things could get even more snaggy for Don in respect to GOP support for him on Capitol following on from Don's instruction to with-hold the Senate funding to Ukraine. There's a hell of a "however" on that though.

Overheal

Sen. Angus King noted Zelensky speaks English so there’s no ready supposition for why else 20 minutes of the call disappeared, the call was originally said to be half an hour.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/sen-angus-king-trump-acting-as-if-criticism-of-him-is-treason-against-the-united-states/

everlast75

Every ****ing day this guy disgusts me. It's a new low after low after low.

His supporters say he's s tough guy, thst he's clever, but here he is basically panicking because for once in his miserable life there is a chance he will be held accountable and he's prepared to scorch the earth and take everyone with him if need be rather than have that happen. God forbid the rules should apply to him.

He's a dangerous, narcissistic excuse of a man. The idea that people admire, look up to or even like him shows more than a serious error in judgement.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1179179573541511176?s=19

Zubeneschamali

The NY Times has a story on Trumps insane thoughts on the border:

Privately, the president had often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water-filled trench, stocked with snakes or alligators, prompting aides to seek a cost estimate. He wanted the wall electrified, with spikes on top that could pierce human flesh. After publicly suggesting that soldiers shoot migrants if they threw rocks, the president backed off when his staff told him that was illegal. But later in a meeting, aides recalled, he suggested that they shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down. That’s not allowed either, they told him.

My favourite is the aide who had to pretend he would get an estimate on a moat filled with millions of alligators and snakes.

everlast75

As mentioned here (i think) before there are two underlying motives for Trump and Putin.

1) get a deal done between Ukraine and Russia, therefore ruling out one of the reasons Russia had sanctions imposed.
2) discredit the Mueller report so that Trump and Putin can say that Russia didn't interfere. Sanctions against Russia could be lifted and suits Trump so he can say he is the legitimate President.

Step 1) achieved, with some holding back of military aid and perhaps more we don't know about

Step 2) Barr, Gorka (lol) and others going around the world with that mission.

pixelburp

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The NY Times has a story on Trumps insane thoughts on the border:

Privately, the president had often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water-filled trench, stocked with snakes or alligators, prompting aides to seek a cost estimate. He wanted the wall electrified, with spikes on top that could pierce human flesh. After publicly suggesting that soldiers shoot migrants if they threw rocks, the president backed off when his staff told him that was illegal. But later in a meeting, aides recalled, he suggested that they shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down. That’s not allowed either, they told him.

My favourite is the aide who had to pretend he would get an estimate on a moat filled with millions of alligators and snakes.

And yet some would have us believe that when he's not joking around, Trump is meant to be some savvy political genius?

Like, if that report is to be believed, that's Dr. Evil levels of parody, made flesh.

Alligators and snakes. Jesus wept, this man is a moron.

one armed dwarf

Tbh the spikey electric wall with gators and snakes is a story I find difficult to believe

But then he did also talk about having a see through wall to see the migrants, so who knows.

aloyisious

What amuses me is in the media its "the staff" or "White House Officials" who dissuade him from the ideas he bounces around W/House meetings checking on feasibility, never Don Jnr, Barr or Pompeo etc so it looks like its always W/House public service heads and not his actual appointed staffers who are doing the balloon-piercing. The wonderment is that "the staff" and "White House Officials" don't have to be rotated regularly on "R & R" breaks, unless that info is not being published by the media. Oh wait... staff departures.

On people taking the piss out of him, I like the new two-image cartoon drawing of Don; I'm not Orange, Impeach.

Call me Al

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Tbh the spikey electric wall with gators and snakes is a story I find difficult to believe

But then he did also talk about having a see through wall to see the migrants, so who knows.

You may find it difficult to believe, but the very fact that you aren't able to fully dismiss it betrays the fact that we all know he is unhinged enough to dream up these things.

And there are those who voted for him who will be nodding their heads in support of these awful ideas.

pixelburp

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Tbh the spikey electric wall with gators and snakes is a story I find difficult to believe

But then he did also talk about having a see through wall to see the migrants, so who knows.

Perhaps there's an element of confirmation bias going on here, but Trump has recorded instances of bone-headed idiocy on all manner of subjects - whether it's raking forest floors, wind turbines giving you cancer, stealth jets being actually invisible, or just the resting ignorance on even the basics of geopolitics. There are dozens of examples where the President has shown himself to be wilfully stupid. A proud moron, acting the expert.

If there's precedent on these 'insider' reports proving to be false, then fair enough, but this isn't the impression I get. If my boss had me research the cost of digging moats filled with snakes, I would 100% leak that to the press.

Zubeneschamali

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Tbh the spikey electric wall with gators and snakes is a story I find difficult to believe

These tiny glimpses we get of Trump ordering his aides to just shoot people or build an electrified wall with a moat full of alligators and snakes 2000 miles long, these are the tip of the iceberg.

When he is out of the White House, the tell-all books are going to be so, so funny.

everlast75

I must admit, the stories of moats and snakes made me laugh and think of Dr. Evil, when he said sharks with frickin lazers coming out of their eyes.

But then I thought- what if there weren't people there to check him, to say shooting migrants in the legs was illegal? He would *absolutely* do what he suggested.

He is a horrible, horrible creature and the idea that if it weren't for a few people, he would have no problem doing what he suggested is frankly abhorent and beyond shocking.

Zubeneschamali

everlast75 wrote: »

what if there weren't people there to check him, to say shooting migrants in the legs was illegal?

Yes, and the principled people in the White House quit or get fired over time for standing up to Trump, and no sensible person will take a job there, so crazy stuff gets more likely to actually happen.

ECO_Mental

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The NY Times has a story on Trumps insane thoughts on the border:

Privately, the president had often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water-filled trench, stocked with snakes or alligators, prompting aides to seek a cost estimate. He wanted the wall electrified, with spikes on top that could pierce human flesh. After publicly suggesting that soldiers shoot migrants if they threw rocks, the president backed off when his staff told him that was illegal. But later in a meeting, aides recalled, he suggested that they shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down. That’s not allowed either, they told him.

My favourite is the aide who had to pretend he would get an estimate on a moat filled with millions of alligators and snakes.

what I want to see and I'm serious here.... is for that staffer/aide to be brought up before some finance committee and be made to go into detail his cost estimates for building a crocodile infested moat:mad::mad:

Let him explain to Joe Public that Trump was actually serious about this....show them the King is truly mad as a f**king brush

Zubeneschamali

ECO_Mental wrote: »

what I want to see and I'm serious here.... is for that staffer/aide to be brought up before some finance committee and be made to go into detail his cost estimates for building a crocodile infested moat

I'm sure no-one really did that work, they just told Trump they would to get out of the meeting. Trump has the attention span of a goldfish and will have a new mad idea after he watches an hour of Fox tomorrow.

amandstu

I am sure he was misquoted. More like "Shoot,pass me the aligator jellies boy" I'd say.

PropJoe10

everlast75 wrote: »

I must admit, the stories of moats and snakes made me laugh and think of Dr. Evil, when he said sharks with frickin lazers coming out of their eyes.

But then I thought- what if there weren't people there to check him, to say shooting migrants in the legs was illegal? He would *absolutely* do what he suggested.

He is a horrible, horrible creature and the idea that if it weren't for a few people, he would have no problem doing what he suggested is frankly abhorent and beyond shocking.

He is utterly repugnant, and if you think it's ugly now, wait until he survives this and kicks into the 2020 campaign properly. It's going to be absolutely disgusting.

one armed dwarf

pixelburp wrote: »

Perhaps there's an element of confirmation bias going on here, but Trump has recorded instances of bone-headed idiocy on all manner of subjects - whether it's raking forest floors, wind turbines giving you cancer, stealth jets being actually invisible, or just the resting ignorance on even the basics of geopolitics. There are dozens of examples where the President has shown himself to be wilfully stupid. A proud moron, acting the expert.

If there's precedent on these 'insider' reports proving to be false, then fair enough, but this isn't the impression I get. If my boss had me research the cost of digging moats filled with snakes, I would 100% leak that to the press.

I guess so.

Literally the first thing I thought about reading that story though was what if Trump was a final boss in a video game. That's the kind of setup he'd have.

I don't know if that says more about my gaming habits or the hyper-real world we live in.

Dohnjoe

PropJoe10 wrote: »

He is utterly repugnant, and if you think it's ugly now, wait until he survives this and kicks into the 2020 campaign properly. It's going to be absolutely disgusting.

Survive? As a consummate populist he is going to thrive from this whole process. Once it inevitably becomes deadlocked, the only person who will take a hit from all this will probably be Biden himself

everlast75

Pompeo admits he was on the 25th july call..

Sideshow Bob

Sideshow Bob wrote:

Because you need me, Springfield. Your guilty conscience may force you to vote Democratic, but deep down inside, you secretly long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalise criminals and rule you like a king!

This quote from The Simpsons sums up the entire Trump phenomenon. Was just watching some older clips and covfefe came up. His supporters want a king. Someone infallible. They've decided that Trump is that. Justify everything. Even when he's wrong, ignore that fact and admire him for not backing down or changing course.
Anyone against him (not against the constitution or against the nation) is treasonous. It's a plot, it's a coup. Even when it's in the open.

peddlelies

Did the alligators have laser beams attached to them at least?

I don't believe Trump seriously suggested shooting migrants in the legs to "slow them down", but you never know.