Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

peddlelies

Trey Gowdy is reportedly set to join Trump's defense team.

Overheal

peddlelies wrote: »

Trey Gowdy is reportedly set to join Trump's defense team.

That’s unfortunate:

“The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you’re the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles.”

- Gowdy 2012

Headshot

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Kurds stabbed in the back yet again. There will be grim footage across the media and that footage will be Trump's fault

It's despicable how the USA administration have turned their back on the Kurds after the amount of lives they have given to eliminate ISIS

It will go down in history of when America stabbed their allies in the back

It's a dark time in America's history for me

is_that_so

Piece on some of those Wisconsin voters who voted for him in 2016.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/09/republicans-divided-at-grassroots-over-trump-we-dont-speak

Overheal

It’s now the 8th time the US has used up Kurds to fight proxy wars in the Middle East: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, name the corner of Kurdistan and the US has helped arm it and helped armed the people who subsequently wipe them out when they get too uppity. Get the regime change the US wants? Here have some napalm and go light up the Kurds who helped this happen. Rinse repeat. Can’t have two corners of Kurdistan too strong at any one time or else they’ll start going on about independence and we can’t have that!

Dytalus

Headshot wrote: »

It's despicable how the USA administration have turned their back on the Kurds after the amount of lives they have given to eliminate ISIS

It will go down in history of when America stabbed in their allies in the back

It's a dark time in America's history for me

Part of me thinks this might be one of the more damaging things that Trump has done while in office. Why would any local forces in scenarios like this ever trust the US at their word, ever again? Sure, NATO allies are harder to 'discard' but even they have to be thinking "how trustworthy is the US on military support?"

But then I remember how interpreters in Iraq got screwed after putting their lives and families at risk for working with the US military with the promise of relocation to the US....and then for so many of them it never happened. This isn't exactly unprecedented. It's not even the first time they've backstabbed the Kurds.

I suppose what makes this worse is that he's so blatantly leaving them to Erdogan to do as he pleases, compared to previous times where they at least tried to be subtle about it - this time Trump is openly spitting in their face. This time the Pentagon, and politicians, and everyone knew that Erdogan would seek war with the Kurds and would stamp them out. Everyone knew what would happen if the US reneged on its promise, and this time it's not a few hundred volunteers, it's an entire people, who have fought and bled for their freedom for generations. Who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS, who love America, who by every report from US soldiers are kind, generous, and ferociously loyal allies.

And Trump abandoned them anyway.

Because he's got two gaudy f'in towers with his name on them in Turkey. God bless America.

Igotadose

Headshot wrote: »

It's despicable how the USA administration have turned their back on the Kurds after the amount of lives they have given to eliminate ISIS

It will go down in history of when America stabbed their allies in the back

It's a dark time in America's history for me

FWIW, sadly, this article talks about America's history backstabbing the Kurds.
https://theintercept.com/2019/10/07/kurds-syria-turkey-trump-betrayal/

Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, both Bushes, all did despicable things directly or indirectly to the Kurds. This doesn't exonerate Trump of course. But, the US has plenty of Kurdish blood on its hands.

Professor Moriarty

is_that_so wrote: »

Piece on some of those Wisconsin voters who voted for him in 2016.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/09/republicans-divided-at-grassroots-over-trump-we-dont-speak

It's very obvious that if the Democrats pick a relatively mainstream candidate then they'll hoover up some Republican voters. In Wisconsin anyway.

rossie1977

Biden is leading by 9, Sanders by 5 and 4 by 4 in latest Wisconsin Fox News poll https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-results-september-29-october-2-2019-wisconsin

Biden and Sanders lead by 6 and Warren by 4 in Emersons latest Ohio poll https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/ohio-2020-statistical-dead-heat-with-biden-sanders-and-warren-in-democratic-primary

Overheal

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's very obvious that if the Democrats pick a relatively mainstream candidate then they'll hoover up some Republican voters. In Wisconsin anyway.

Polls have him trailing Dems in all the battleground states.

It’s really not that Trump is popular it’s about Election Day and trying to discourage his opponents from getting to the polls. State GOP have his back with voter suppression like that we saw in Georgia and other states with straight up suppression tactics and even covering up investigations into that oppression. Florida GOP govt still refuses to reenfranchinse ex felons rights to vote after state voters passed the resolution handedly. And the gerrymandering but we’ve talked about that

theguzman

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's very obvious that if the Democrats pick a relatively mainstream candidate then they'll hoover up some Republican voters. In Wisconsin anyway.

Which is why Trump went Nuclear on Biden, he wants Kamala Harris, Tulsi Gabbard or Elizabeth Warren because he will beat them easier. The Democrats have been hijacked by AOC and the Squad and Trump has made them the vilified face of the DNC.

If the DNC went for a younger charismatic moderate White male like Joe Kennedy III or Beto O'Rourke then they would surely beat Trump. Joe Kennedy is not even in the race because he must think Trump is unbeatable but I am watching him for a year or two and he is definite Presidential material and a supreme statesman, I'd say he is holding his cards until 2022.

Brussels Sprout

Nice one Donnie

Turkey launched an assault on Kurdish forces in northern Syria today with air strikes and artillery fire reported along the border.

link

everlast75

Overheal wrote: »

That’s unfortunate:

“The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you’re the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles.”

- Gowdy 2012

Hopefully he gets Graham to help him out too..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwlazzkf1rU

pixelburp

theguzman wrote: »

Which is why Trump went Nuclear on Biden, he wants Kamala Harris, Tulsi Gabbard or Elizabeth Warren because he will beat them easier. The Democrats have been hijacked by AOC and the Squad and Trump has made them the vilified face of the DNC.

If the DNC went for a younger charismatic moderate White male like Joe Kennedy III or Beto O'Rourke then they would surely beat Trump. Joe Kennedy is not even in the race because he must think Trump is unbeatable but I am watching him for a year or two and he is definite Presidential material and a supreme statesman, I'd say he is holding his cards until 2022.

Sorry, which one of The Squad is running for president again?

Elizabeth Warren has been a highly successful senator for decades, so spare the "extremist" angle. And Kamala Harris is NOT a progressive - and polling single digits now - so frankly you're showing a bias there, and lack of information. Nor indeed Gabbard. Or at least that's what you seem to be implying there.

everlast75

Dytalus wrote: »

Part of me thinks this might be one of the more damaging things that Trump has done while in office. Why would any local forces in scenarios like this ever trust the US at their word, ever again? Sure, NATO allies are harder to 'discard' but even they have to be thinking "how trustworthy is the US on military support?"

But then I remember how interpreters in Iraq got screwed after putting their lives and families at risk for working with the US military with the promise of relocation to the US....and then for so many of them it never happened. This isn't exactly unprecedented. It's not even the first time they've backstabbed the Kurds.

I suppose what makes this worse is that he's so blatantly leaving them to Erdogan to do as he pleases, compared to previous times where they at least tried to be subtle about it - this time Trump is openly spitting in their face. This time the Pentagon, and politicians, and everyone knew that Erdogan would seek war with the Kurds and would stamp them out. Everyone knew what would happen if the US reneged on its promise, and this time it's not a few hundred volunteers, it's an entire people, who have fought and bled for their freedom for generations. Who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS, who love America, who by every report from US soldiers are kind, generous, and ferociously loyal allies.

And Trump abandoned them anyway.

Because he's got two gaudy f'in towers with his name on them in Turkey. God bless America.

Jesus, this is grim.

Doesn't matter that a republican did this - I'd be disgusted with a democrat doing it.

It's just plain wrong.

https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1181929592254283784?s=20

theguzman

pixelburp wrote: »

Sorry, which one of The Squad is running for president again?

Elizabeth Warren has been a highly successful senator for decades, so spare the "extremist" angle. And Kamala Harris is NOT a progressive - and polling single digits now - so frankly you're showing a bias there, and lack of information. Nor indeed Gabbard. Or at least that's what you seem to be implying there.

None are running but Trump is making it all about them and their increasingly leftwing policies, he has turned them into the visible face of the DNC which will push even more moderates to hold their nose and vote Trump. Millions of white men will back Trump alone due to these reasons.

pixelburp

theguzman wrote: »

None are running but Trump is making it all about them and their increasingly leftwing policies, he has turned them into the visible face of the DNC which will push even more moderates to hold their nose and vote Trump. Millions of white men will back Trump alone due to these reasons.

All of which becomes entirely redundant the moment a clear winner in the Democratic campaign arrives. Trump - and the GOP - can rant all they want about AOC but ultimately she'll have about as much influence over the final result as I will. There's still ~10 candidates and while Biden is somehow defaulting his way to victory the GOP have no actual, clear target in their sights. Trump certainly seemed to think so mind you, given his eagerness to dredge up dirt in Biden may cause his impeachment.

Their histrionics over a young, attractive latina socialist would be hilarious if it wasn't so transparently uh ... well, all I can think of that's polite is to say it feels psycho-sexual. But it's plain as day that if Trump was the reaction to The Establishment, there's going to be a reaction against Centrism too; generations now live who have no idea of how apparently awful "socialism" is meant to be (the prevailing mantra of the Baby Boomers who adore Trump as it happens), and are happily rowing in behind the likes of Warren and Sanders (ironically themselves Boomers). Who, if some polls are to be believed, are beating Trump in head-to-head as well.

eire4

pixelburp wrote: »

All of which becomes entirely redundant the moment a clear winner in the Democratic campaign arrives. Trump - and the GOP - can rant all they want about AOC but ultimately she'll have about as much influence over the final result as I will. There's still ~10 candidates and while Biden is somehow defaulting his way to victory the GOP have no actual, clear target in their sights. Trump certainly seemed to think so mind you, given his eagerness to dredge up dirt in Biden may cause his impeachment.

Their histrionics over a young, attractive latina socialist would be hilarious if it wasn't so transparently uh ... well, all I can think of that's polite is to say it feels psycho-sexual. But it's plain as day that if Trump was the reaction to The Establishment, there's going to be a reaction against Centrism too; generations now live who have no idea of how apparently awful "socialism" is meant to be (the prevailing mantra of the Baby Boomers who adore Trump as it happens), and are happily rowing in behind the likes of Warren and Sanders (ironically themselves Boomers). Who, if some polls are to be believed, are beating Trump in head-to-head as well.

Lets not forget that close to half of the US does not even vote. The Democrats have long since sold out to the corporations too and that has been a factor in turning so many away and for decades now the Democrats have cared not a jot as at this point as I have mentioned before IMHO they represent only maybe the top 20% in the US from an economic stand point. The difference being the Republicans are there economically to represent the top 1%. If the Democrats are actually interested in really representing most of the US they need an FDR type and the closest they have to that is Warren and Sanders. Now IMHO the US is no longer a functioning democracy but rather an oligarchy with strong authoritarian leanings as the power centers in Washington have moved so far to the right. The grip the military and the major corporations and wealthy have on the US is so strong I would actually fear for Warren or Sanders if they ever became president. I could see a scenario where the major power centers did everything they could behind the scenes to undermine such a presidency. I have to wonder as a country has the US fallen too far to the right to be saved at this point in terms of being a viable democracy that is actually good for its own people and good for the world rather then as it is now an oligarchy within its own borders and a bellicose militaristic bully and force for destruction around the world.

peddlelies

theguzman wrote: »

None are running but Trump is making it all about them and their increasingly leftwing policies, he has turned them into the visible face of the DNC which will push even more moderates to hold their nose and vote Trump. Millions of white men will back Trump alone due to these reasons.

No he hasn't, the push for impeachment is the focus now. He had that chance ( bolded bit ) but for whatever reason decided to implode and commit political suicide on multiple fronts.

TomOnBoard

everlast75 wrote: »

For those with their heads spinning with all the litigation, i follow a twitter handle @blakesmustache. He had the following series of tweets. There is a handle called @threadreaderapp which will print them out in text and provide a link - handy!
Anyway, here is what he had to say about the multiple cases;

Thread: It’s time to discuss SCOTUS

Since April, House Dems have been fighting in court to get documents and witness testimony related to their impeachment inquiry. Those court cases—and NY’s criminal case—are on a collision course with SCOTUS.

Let’s take a look at the issues.
Preliminary Note 1: House Dems do not technically need more evidence to impeach Trump. They have all they need to impeach him now for disloyalty in asking Ukraine for election interference. But House Dems want an ironclad case and, for that, they need more evidence from SCOTUS.
Preliminary Note 2: Trump has only appointed two of nine SCOTUS Justices. In many cases, Trump has no plausible legal argument and no real hope of victory. In those cases, his only goal is/was delay. Trump’s legal team knows they will lose those cases at SCOTUS.

Cases 1 and 2: Mazars and Deutsche Bank

These cases began in April with subpoenas served on Trump’s accountants (Mazars) and bankers (Deutsche Bank), asking for Trump’s tax/financial records. Mazars ended up in federal appellate court in DC and the DB case is in the 2nd Circuit.
Mazars/Deutsche Bank were filed before the impeachment inquiry was launched and both hinge on the same legal issue:

Does the House Intelligence Committee have a valid legislative purpose in determining whether Trump is compromised by money laundering for foreign nationals?
If the answer to that question is “yes” (and it clearly is) then House Dems will win. Their subpoenas were broad and might be narrowed some to exclude things that aren’t related to money laundering, but they will win. Trump has no legal argument here and is only hoping for delay.


Mazars was argued to the appellate court on 7/12 and Deutsche Bank was argued on 8/23. Both cases should be decided any day now. Trump will appeal both cases to SCOTUS. The legal issues are so clear here that SCOTUS may well deny cert (not take the cases).
If you think SCOTUS is out to help Trump, the worst you should expect is for them to take the cases and sit on them or send them back to the lower courts to clarify issues in order to manufacture more delay for Trump. That seems highly unlikely to me, but it’s not impossible.

Case 3: Manhattan DA’s Grand Jury Subpoena to Mazars

NY is trying to get Trump’s tax returns as part of a criminal case against him, his family, and his companies in NY. They have Cohen as a cooperating witness and they sent a subpoena to Mazars for Trump’s tax records.
Trump got the case kicked to federal court to resolve whether the Constitution makes Trump immune from investigation by NY. The Disctrict Court annihilated Trump’s legal arguments a few days ago and the case is already scheduled for oral argument in appellate court on 10/23.
This is another case Trump *knows* he can’t win. Even if it’s true that Trump can’t be indicted by NY, that doesn’t mean he can’t be investigated. If he were immune from investigation, that would allow the case to go cold while he’s in office and would shield his co-conspirators.
Appellate court will order Mazars to comply with the subpoena, probably by December. Trump will appeal to SCOTUS. Again, this case is so clearly impossible for Trump to win that SCOTUS *should* deny cert. Worst case, they take the case and give Trump the delay he wants.

Case 4: The Mueller Grand Jury Materials

House Dems filed this case in July *after* officially opening its impeachment inquiry. The issue here is whether the House has a right to see Mueller’s grand jury materials in the context of an impeachment inquiry. Um...duh, they do.
This case was argued in DC District Court before the Chief Judge on 10/8 (yesterday). Trump had two main arguments: (1) the House isn’t *really* in an impeachment inquiry and (2) grand jury materials are only available in *judicial* proceedings (not in an impeachment proceeding).
These arguments didn’t go over well with the judge. She’s going to rule against Trump and send the case to appellate court within weeks, where Trump also will quickly lose. Trump should be appealing this case to SCOTUS by January.

Look, this case is a slam dunk. SCOTUS is *NOT* going to say that Congress can’t see a Special Counsel’s grand jury materials in the context of an impeachment inquiry. They may allow some things to be redacted from what DOJ is ordered to turn over, but even that’s doubtful.

Case 5: The Tax Return Case

House Dems issued a subpoena to Treasury and filed a case to enforce the subpoena over the summer. This case landed in the lap of a Trump appointee and is a poster child for court-manufactured delay.

The tax return case is on a slow boat to nowhere. Trump has no legit legal defense, but hit the crackpot jackpot when the case was assigned. This case may not make it to SCOTUS until March unless House Dems file a writ of mandamus to speed it up, which I expect to happen.
These first five cases are all ones that Trump *knows* he will lose. He is *only* fighting for delay in these cases. There is *zero* chance that SCOTUS rules in Trump’s favor in *any* of these cases. If they did, they’d immediately lose all credibility and all legitimacy.
There is no way on Earth that John Roberts flushes the Supreme Court’s legitimacy down the toilet to protect Trump from any of these five cases. Trump already has the Senate on his side. Even if Roberts wanted Trump to skate, he’d consider that the Senate’s job, not his.

Case 6: The McGahn Case (Witness Testimony)

OK, this one is hairy. It’s going to take time to sort it out in the lower courts and there’s no telling what SCOTUS will do with it when it gets to them. So, if you want to wring your hands about SCOTUS, this is the one to do it on.
I’m not going to try to go through all the contours of the law of Executive Privilege or Trump’s claim of “Absolute Immunity.” Suffice it to say that the issues are complicated. Which is why House Dems have been methodically building their case and trapping witnesses into giving them the strongest case possible. For example, Lewandowski (and Hicks) helped the case tremendously.

I’m not making any predictions on when or how SCOTUS will rule on the McGahn case, but I think the timing is telling. House Dems know this won’t be sorted until March/April at the earliest, so they clearly seem to expect that their impeachment inquiry may go on for a while.

The witness testimony issue may get to SCOTUS faster if a key Ukraine witness refuses to testify and is held in contempt. A case like that could get to SCOTUS on a writ of mandamus within weeks. If you’re looking for fireworks at SCOTUS, this is the case for you!

A very helpful summary, and still only a representative sample of the breadth of ongoing investigations in the legal domain outside of the impeachment investigations which are political ones.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/PaulLidicul/status/1181987508202041344?s=19

*TURNS OUT NOT TO BE TRUE*

Nody

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PaulLidicul/status/1181987508202041344?s=19

I hope this catches on...

It's apparently fake.

https://twitter.com/burakamed/status/1182019673434525699

Kermit.de.frog

Where are all the MAGA heads?


Are yeh not all coming out to condemn the betrayal of the Kurds who are under attack now by Turkey as we speak?

No? Didn't think so.

Moron president.

everlast75

Nody wrote: »

It's apparently fake.

https://twitter.com/burakamed/status/1182019673434525699

Ahh ****!

Maybe somebody will project it onto his buildings then.

Thanks for letting us know though

namloc1980

This one is insane...."the Kurds didn't help us in Normandy"! Definitely not the full bob.

.

EltonJohn69

Has he been bought by Turkey or is he just trying to burn bridges and make everyone mad ???

pixelburp

So anyone know what "powerful article" he's referring to, cos Trump seems to be saying it was that article that claimed they didn't help in WW2. I'm now wondering if there's any truth in this, cos a number of countries and regions jumped onto the Allied side in 44 when the tide turned (eg Brazil)

Of course it's all about the money with Trump; not for the first time lives are on the line - be it natural disaster or geopolitical one - and he can only relate to the monetary cost. Ammunition that the US military has apparently run out of, according to him. Guess they were shipping it all to Syria?

Professor Moriarty

namloc1980 wrote: »

This one is insane...."the Kurds didn't help us in Normandy"! Definitely not the full bob.

.

Neither did the Turks and Syrians.

Itssoeasy

namloc1980 wrote: »

This one is insane...."the Kurds didn't help us in Normandy"! Definitely not the full bob.

.

That whole twitter thread with video and quotes in bat**** ramblings of someone who's not well. Minneapolis is a city not a state btw.

Itssoeasy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

namloc1980 wrote: »

This one is insane...."the Kurds didn't help us in Normandy"! Definitely not the full bob.

.

Neither did the Turks and Syrians.

The Saudis did great things at Normandy... oh wait no they didn't. He's living in his own fantasy world.