Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Professor Moriarty

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1187074737387769860?s=19

Wow!

As an aside, he looks like he's being played by Joe Pesci. Which would make sense.

listermint

Midlife wrote: »

Like i said, respect.

Read back through my posting history. By all means judge my intellectual level from that and not that I'm disagreeing with you now on this one issue.

You're being very very dismissive of whatever i say.

it seems simply because we don't agree on this it's all 'christ on bike', 'give me a break' and now it's about my intellectual level.

Like i say, it's very dismissive of me as an individual with my own opinions. You're also very very sure of yourself.

It simply shocks me that you can take someone who probably agrees with you on 99% of stuff (again check posting history) and after 3 back and forth comments, you're having pops at my intelligence and suggesting the internet is doomed - based on me. Check out my original comment and how utterly dismissively you responded to it and then ask yourself what value you are to reasoned debate when behaving like this?

You said you'd change your vote based on what someone you didn't knows opinion on a subject was...

I mean... Come on fella. That's mad altogether

aloyisious

This might get Mike Pompeo worried. The order has a thirty day deadline for completion. Allying that to the move by Lev Parnas defence lawyer in court today starts to link up the chain. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/us-judge-orders-state-dept-to-produce-ukraine-docs/1624356

Itssoeasy

I know I probably know the answer to my question but do the GOP know how bad their actions today look ? I know they are playing to an audience of one but it’s not even subtle.

Also, I a clip of former acting AG Whittaker saying that abuse of power isn’t a crime that a president can do. I mean except that one of the articles of impeachment that Nixon would have faced was abuse of power by in part by “using the powers of the office of the president of the United States,Richard M Nixon, in violation of his constitutional oath of office faithfully to execute the office of the president” I mean fair enough he was appearing on Fox News where the facts don’t matter and irony is an endangered species.

The Nixon articles of impeachment of obstruction of justice, abuse of power, and contempt of Congress could easily be applied to trump given between the mueller report citing 10 examples of obstruction of justice, and the stonewalling of Congress are all things trumps has done.

Nixon was paranoid as all hell but Nixon from what I’ve read wasn’t a complete and utter idiot which are things you can ascribe to the current president.

26000 Elephants

everlast75 wrote: »

Wow!

Trump: "I dont know any of these guys"

Also Trump: "I know these guys well. They are fine, perfect people"

(Later) Stephanie Grisham: "They did nothing wrong"

marno21

I have BBC Radio 4 on in the background. "Speaking from the White House, President Trump appeared to be speaking from an alternative reality".

I can't be the only one who can't wait for this to come to an end from a non-partisan perspective. The role of US President is a level above this "spectre".

There are surely Congressmen from the time of Nixon could teach the clowns in the House trying to storm the hearings today a thing or two.

marno21

In other news, the border wall must be complete now that they’ve moved on to building walls within the US. Poor Colorado over run with Americans escaping New Mexico.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1187110831915450370

Billy Mays

Christy42

marno21 wrote: »

In other news, the border wall must be complete now that they’ve moved on to building walls within the US. Poor Colorado over run with Americans escaping New Mexico.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1187110831915450370

All the liberals fault. Trump warned of the incoming invasion. Now the army that was sent to deal with it must cede ground to the small children crossing the border and abandoning New Mexico to it's fate. If only the liberals had listened before it was too late.

26000 Elephants

The WSJ has an interesting twist on events to offer a defence for Trump: He is corrupt enough to initiate the 'quid' but too incompetent to follow up on the 'pro'.

This is a real 'cant even' moment.

https://t.co/TluJ3dC41s?amp=1

Quin_Dub

26000 Elephants wrote: »

The WSJ has an interesting twist on events to offer a defence for Trump: He is corrupt enough to initiate the 'quid' but too incompetent to follow up on the 'pro'.

This is a real 'cant even' moment.

https://t.co/TluJ3dC41s?amp=1

The whole "You can't have Quid Pro Quo, when there is no Quo" argument..

Even that weak spurious argument has already been skewered by multiple reports in the last day or so

Ukraine Knew of Aid Freeze by Early August, Undermining Trump Defense

Top officials were told in early August about the delay of $391 million in security assistance, undercutting a chief argument President Trump has used to deny any quid pro quo.

Overheal

WH: people against Trump deserve to be called ‘scum’ because that’s what they are

https://www.mediaite.com/news/white-house-press-secretary-says-people-who-are-against-trump-deserve-to-be-called-scum-they-are-just-that/

I miss GWB

everlast75

Overheal wrote: »

WH: people against Trump deserve to be called ‘scum’ because that’s what they are

https://www.mediaite.com/news/white-house-press-secretary-says-people-who-are-against-trump-deserve-to-be-called-scum-they-are-just-that/

I miss GWB

On a completely unrelated topic, I see Melania's campaign against online bullying is going well....

26000 Elephants

Overheal wrote: »

WH: people against Trump deserve to be called ‘scum’ because that’s what they are

https://www.mediaite.com/news/white-house-press-secretary-says-people-who-are-against-trump-deserve-to-be-called-scum-they-are-just-that/

I miss GWB

I think it needs to be made clear that he wasn't just calling 'people' scum, but *Republicans* scum. So it doesn't really matter what you believe - left, right, liberal or conservative: if you dont fully buy into Trumps bu11sh1t views, you are "Scum".

Epic projection.

Overheal

26000 Elephants wrote: »

I think it needs to be made clear that he wasn't just calling 'people' scum, but *Republicans* scum. So it doesn't really matter what you believe - left, right, liberal or conservative: if you dont fully buy into Trumps bu11sh1t views, you are "Scum".

Epic projection.

It's about that magic number: 66 Senators.

You also have this not at all subtle plea for extremists to commit acts of terror if they do actually impeach him:

“If they take him out, there is going to be violence in America. There are people in this country, veterans, cowboys, mountain men, guys that know how to fight, and they’re going to make a decision that the people that did this to Donald Trump are not going to get away with it and they’re going to hunt them down,” Wiles said, before adding that he is deadly “serious.”

“If these people in Washington think that they are going to get away with it, it’s not going to happen,” he continued. “The Trump supporters are going to hunt them down. It’s going to happen and this country is going to be plunged into darkness and they brought it upon themselves because they won’t back off.”

Wiles, who refers to Jews and Muslims as “the Antichrist,” went on to say that Trump supporters “are fed up” with Democrats and the media and are on the verge of starting another civil war.

“They know if they get away this, there’s no country left it’s done, it’s finished,” he added. “When people have lost everything … they just lose it, alright, they’re going to go on a rampage and you’re not going to be able to put it back in the bottle.”

Wiles’ co-host then chimed in to say, “Once the blood starts flowing, it’s nearly impossible to stop.”

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/far-right-tv-host-rick-wiles-if-trump-is-removed-his-supporters-will-hunt-down-democrats/

aloyisious

Overheal wrote: »

It's about that magic number: 66 Senators.

You also have this not at all subtle plea for extremists to commit acts of terror if they do actually impeach him:

“If they take him out, there is going to be violence in America. There are people in this country, veterans, cowboys, mountain men, guys that know how to fight, and they’re going to make a decision that the people that did this to Donald Trump are not going to get away with it and they’re going to hunt them down,” Wiles said, before adding that he is deadly “serious.”

“If these people in Washington think that they are going to get away with it, it’s not going to happen,” he continued. “The Trump supporters are going to hunt them down. It’s going to happen and this country is going to be plunged into darkness and they brought it upon themselves because they won’t back off.”

Wiles, who refers to Jews and Muslims as “the Antichrist,” went on to say that Trump supporters “are fed up” with Democrats and the media and are on the verge of starting another civil war.

“They know if they get away this, there’s no country left it’s done, it’s finished,” he added. “When people have lost everything … they just lose it, alright, they’re going to go on a rampage and you’re not going to be able to put it back in the bottle.”

Wiles’ co-host then chimed in to say, “Once the blood starts flowing, it’s nearly impossible to stop.”

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/far-right-tv-host-rick-wiles-if-trump-is-removed-his-supporters-will-hunt-down-democrats/

Looking at the outpouring above, I hope the ambassador and other persons going to testify before the committees are well protected. No evidence, no trial.

Overheal

aloyisious wrote: »

Looking at the outpouring above, I hope the ambassador and other persons going to testify before the committees are well protected. No evidence, no trial.

I don’t even want to entertain that thought.

Manic Moran

Interesting OpEd piece on CNN right now from a former Special Forces chap whose wife was killed on deployment in Syria.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/24/opinions/syria-kurds-trump-withdrawal-kent/index.html
Can't exactly say he's wrong.

As to the Republicans storming the SCIF, I'm not sure who thought that would be a good idea.

Igotadose

The rats are really in the bucket now. KAC loses it in interview with the pro-Trump Washington Examiner. Says some pretty harsh things, all on the record, including "He gets his power from me" about her husband, and threatens to investigate personal lives of reporters.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kellyanne-conway-washington-examiner-call_n_5db21914e4b0bc7f96fe608f

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

Interesting OpEd piece on CNN right now from a former Special Forces chap whose wife was killed on deployment in Syria.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/24/opinions/syria-kurds-trump-withdrawal-kent/index.html
Can't exactly say he's wrong.

As to the Republicans storming the SCIF, I'm not sure who thought that would be a good idea.

Husband of soldier killed in operation has opinion on operations...


Sorry manic but this story is as old as time , maybe gender reversed.

I think you've said it yourself that it's part of the job. And you don't have to agree with deployments. The notion trump was right in pulling this maneuver has no support anywhere. And I'm surprised ... Actually not surprised you agree with it. Trump.. after all


We all know as do you it was done to create a new news source for deflection from his problems. It had the added bonus of assistanting his supporters outside the US we all know the ones.


This fella is tearing apart the fabric of the US and your own armed forces standing and capabilities yet you still don't look at his actions rationally.


Just
...... Beyond belief.

reece289

Manic Moran wrote: »

Interesting OpEd piece on CNN right now from a former Special Forces chap whose wife was killed on deployment in Syria.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/24/opinions/syria-kurds-trump-withdrawal-kent/index.html
Can't exactly say he's wrong.

As to the Republicans storming the SCIF, I'm not sure who thought that would be a good idea.

Interesting read.

I do wonder though, once Russia become the main players in the region surely they then have the power to dictate if the regime stands or not. The guy claims the fall of a strongman in the area leads to terrorism in the west, so surely leaving that up to Russia emboldens them and increases their hand. Also, Russia pushing refugees into Europe has had a huge effect for Putin in Europe, something the US will, in the long run, regret if, as he claims, the next problem is Russia.

Also just because Trump pushed for removal of troops, and the minority of voters voted for him, doesnt make that a good option. Leaving power gaps in unstable area's is surely a real problem?

Christy42

Well the US won't be completely withdrawing by the looks of it. Abandoning the Kurds is all well and fine but abandoning oil. Well that would just be barbaric. The US is considering deploying tanks to protect oil fields. Trump suggests Kurds flee to there. (That the Kurds need to flee due to the US abandoning them is left unsaid).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/24/politics/trump-kurds-oil-tanks/index.html

26000 Elephants

"; the US air power controlled by skilled Special Operations Forces (SOF) saved the Kurds from being slaughtered by ISIS."

Oh dear.

The ISIS fighters largely armed by the US? Fighting in a civil war almost entirely engineered by the US, supporting any kind of radical Islamist nut job as long as they furthered the US agenda in the region?

That one?

Oh dear lord my heart bleeds for the poor Special forces guys that think you can justify abandoning the kurds because the war you engineered in the first place wasn't a good idea.

26000 Elephants

reece289 wrote: »

Also, Russia pushing refugees into Europe has had a huge effect for Putin in Europe, something the US will, in the long run, regret if, as he claims, the next problem is Russia.

What?

The refugees are fleeing from the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and now Syria. Who started these wars these wars and displaced entire peoples westward towards Europe? The last wave was as a result of the civil war in Syria - a war engineered and supported entirely by the US.

The only role Russia had in Syria was to support the regime in a bid to stabilise the country, the end result of which would be the exact opposite of your claim.

Next time you see homeless refugees trying to cross the channel or homed in Ireland, you can take it up with a fat american who complains about having to pay an extra 10 cents on a gallon of gas.

reece289

26000 Elephants wrote: »

What?

The refugees are fleeing from the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and now Syria. Who started these wars these wars and displaced entire peoples westward towards Europe? The last wave was as a result of the civil war in Syria - a war engineered and supported entirely by the US.

The only role Russia had in Syria was to support the regime in a bid to stabilise the country, the end result of which would be the exact opposite of your claim.

Next time you see homeless refugees trying to cross the channel or homed in Ireland, you can take it up with a fat american who complains about having to pay an extra 10 cents on a gallon of gas.

Ok, so the US started it. Doesn't make the point less relevant. It suits Russia.

Quin_Dub

Igotadose wrote: »

The rats are really in the bucket now. KAC loses it in interview with the pro-Trump Washington Examiner. Says some pretty harsh things, all on the record, including "He gets his power from me" about her husband, and threatens to investigate personal lives of reporters.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kellyanne-conway-washington-examiner-call_n_5db21914e4b0bc7f96fe608f

And yet , the latest CNN poll shows Trump support among GOP voters remains at 90% with only 6% supporting impeachment and removal at this stage.

That 90% and 6% are the only 2 numbers that matter.

As long as they stay like that , no evidence in the world will make the Senate find him guilty.

Ben Done

Barr's Justice Department has launched a criminal inquiry into the 'oranges' of the Russia 'witch hunt'.

As part of his inquiry, Mr Barr has asked Australian and British justice officials for assistance and visited Italy twice, meeting intelligence agents in Rome in August and September to learn more about people mentioned in Mr Mueller's report.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1025/1085515-trump-russia-probe/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50178197

everlast75

Ben Done wrote: »

Barr's Justice Department has launched a criminal inquiry into the 'oranges' of the Russia 'witch hunt'.




https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1025/1085515-trump-russia-probe/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50178197

A nice shiny object for Fox to dangle around, while also promoting that

1) these hearings are illegal (they're not)
2) the Republicans are excluded (they're not)
3) the witnesses are "deep state" (they are not)
4) the President is not being allowed defend himself (he'll get to do that later - this is just the enquiry stage)

They need a shiny object because at this stage, they cannot fight the Dems on facts.

Zubeneschamali

Ben Done wrote: »

As part of his inquiry, Mr Barr has asked Australian and British justice officials for assistance and visited Italy twice, meeting intelligence agents in Rome in August and September to learn more about people mentioned in Mr Mueller's report.

And we know this because the Italians laughed and told him where to shove his inquiry:

Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte said he made clear to the United States that his country's intelligence services had no ties to Joseph Mifsud, the mysterious Maltese professor who allegedly played a central role in the launch of the Trump-Russia investigation.

Two recent meetings between Attorney General William Barr and Italian intelligence officials "clarified that our intelligence was not involved in the affair," Conte told reporters.

This casts some doubt on a theory pushed by Republican allies of President Trump

B0jangles

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And yet , the latest CNN poll shows Trump support among GOP voters remains at 90% with only 6% supporting impeachment and removal at this stage.

That 90% and 6% are the only 2 numbers that matter.

As long as they stay like that , no evidence in the world will make the Senate find him guilty.

But what proportion of the overall voting population are still willing to identify themselves to a pollster as a GOP voter, and is that number increasing or decreasing? As far as I can see, the poll relies on respondents identifying themselves as rep/dem/other voters, and there was a significant gap between self-identified reps and dems:

Among the entire sample, 30% described themselves as Democrats, 26% described themselves as Republicans, and 44% described themselves as independents or members of another party

I can't see how it's a good strategy to alienate the fringes of your own voter base to appease the extremely hardcore.