Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

aloyisious

everlast75 wrote: »

Maybe someone who was found to have obstructed justice multiple times should not be awarded any such award. Just my take on things.


Anyhoo, in other election promise news, man who bankrupted multiple business, including a ****ing casino, is bankrupting the Country.

https://twitter.com/byHeatherLong/status/1187790989953585152?s=19

Another fact his supporters choose to ignore/not care about.

If he's given a 2nd term by the GOP voter, they are gifting him with the chance to do what he's done in the past, wreck the business he's in charge of. This time it's their country, not a private industry enterprise. They will be allowing him the freedom to really screw them over royally all the way to the bank. They must like being ****ed over by a conman.

aloyisious

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The trump family will be costing the us taxpayer more money it seems. Jared and Ivanka are celebrating their ten year anniversary at camp David.

Two decisions in a row to alter the perception of anti-emolument acts? They may be seeing things with a touch of realism now.

relax carry on

aloyisious wrote: »

If he's given a 2nd term by the GOP voter, they are gifting him with the chance to do what he's done in the past, wreck the business he's in charge of. This time it's their country, not a private industry enterprise. They will be allowing him the freedom to really screw them over royally all the way to the bank. They must like being ****ed over by a conman.

It's the price some of them are willing to pay in support of their team whether that's team Trump or team Republican. The others don't see it at all other than it's all part of the conspiracies started by left liberals/democrats against team Trump or team Republican. They are blinded by their adherence to whatever MAGA means to them. Trump and the Republicans are selling them the dream that is America. It doesn't matter if it's real or not; perception is all that matters.

aloyisious

You know you're doing something right when the President gives you damning praise. Don in Belgrade, Montana referring to the Dems: they are lousy politicians but they're vicious and know how to stick together.

Edit: the item I saw on F/B included a reference to a GOP senator commenting on Don giving the impression Don's speech in Montana was made over the past few days. Instead it's from Nov last year. My apologies for falling for a false-image F/B post before researching it first.

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

The stated objective is to deny ISIS control of the oil fields. That seems like something which actually can be done, and is not without merit.

But they just released ISIS on the region . This oil field manoeuvre was not needed.

Arguably it was cheaper to do exactly what they were doing until your president tried to change the news cycle and played with US troops.

I get more and more amused by your position on a weekly basis.

Aretheymyfeet

Trump is an egomaniacal narccistic demagogue but if you actually believe the Democrats are any better, you're an idiot brainwashed by the media.

At present, Trump is pretty much a sure thing for 2020. None of the Dem contenders show any sign of being a real challenge to him. A re-elected Trump will likely be significantly more dangerous as he'll no longer need to please his base supporters. The anti intervention vote for example, which he cannot afford to lose pre 2020, may be keeping him out of any new wars for now. Post re-election, the Israeli influence may override that.

Just in case anyone thought there was a positive option, the Dems are just as much in the pocket of the Israel lobby and are arguably even more enthusiastic about aggressive empire building, if the past 15 years are anything to go by.

Both parties serve the same financial power interests. Both pursue the same global agenda. Two cheeks of the same arse and both full of shi...

Aretheymyfeet

aloyisious wrote: »

If he's given a 2nd term by the GOP voter, they are gifting him with the chance to do what he's done in the past, wreck the business he's in charge of. This time it's their country, not a private industry enterprise. They will be allowing him the freedom to really screw them over royally all the way to the bank. They must like being ****ed over by a conman.

Because the Dems offer a better alternative? 😂 he's awful, they're just as bad.

FrostyJack

Aretheymyfeet wrote:

Trump is an egomaniacal narccistic demagogue but if you actually believe the Democrats are any better, you're an idiot brainwashed by the media.

Putin, my dog or The Rock would be a better president than Trump. Every one of the 20 odd Democratic nominees at the start of the campaign would do a better job than Trump even the freakshow ones. You are using false equivalence to bolster your point whenever you agenda is. Someone did something bad once so they are all bad. This is language of Trump not someone who is unbiased or balanced. Snowden mentioned it this week on the Joe Rogan that Trump is the luckiest man alive because never before has faith in politicans, media or institutions been so low, that if he does anything, his supporters say he they all make stuff up so he is okay to misspeak. Bernie Sanders does go on Twitter every week calling his own party members "human scum". Warren doesn't believe seperating people from their kids and locking them in cages. Most politicians are in the pocket of corporations and owe backers, but as we learned the last few weeks none more so than Trump himself who claimed he bankrolled himself.

Aretheymyfeet

FrostyJack wrote: »

Putin, my dog or The Rock would be a better president than Trump. Every one of the 20 odd Democratic nominees at the start of the campaign would do a better job than Trump even the freakshow ones. You are using false equivalence to bolster your point whenever you agenda is. Someone did something bad once so they are all bad. This is language of Trump not someone who is unbiased or balanced. Snowden mentioned it this week on the Joe Rogan that Trump is the luckiest man alive because never before has faith in politicans, media or institutions been so low, that if he does anything, his supporters say he they all make stuff up so he is okay to misspeak. Bernie Sanders does go on Twitter every week calling his own party members "human scum". Warren doesn't believe seperating people from their kids and locking them in cages. Most politicians are in the pocket of corporations and owe backers, but as we learned the last few weeks none more so than Trump himself who claimed he bankrolled himself.

Yeah, nothing you say there explains why the Dems winning in 2020 would be an improvement. Would you consider say, Obama to have been a 'better' President than Trump?

Igotadose

Aretheymyfeet wrote: »

Yeah, nothing you say there explains why the Dems winning in 2020 would be an improvement. Would you consider say, Obama to have been a 'better' President than Trump?

Do you think Trump's been a good president? Better than Obama? If so, based on what metrics/reasons?

prawnsambo

Aretheymyfeet wrote: »

Yeah, nothing you say there explains why the Dems winning in 2020 would be an improvement. Would you consider say, Obama to have been a 'better' President than Trump?

By any objective measure, every president was a better president than Trump. Nobody trusts the USA now. And worse, any nation that wants to, can ignore the US and do so with impunity.

Aretheymyfeet

Igotadose wrote: »

Do you think Trump's been a good president? Better than Obama? If so, based on what metrics/reasons?

No. Not a good President. Both are awful. The world is not binary.

Aretheymyfeet

prawnsambo wrote: »

By any objective measure, every president was a better president than Trump. Nobody trusts the USA now. And worse, any nation that wants to, can ignore the US and do so with impunity.

Really? Every President was better? Obama bombed 7 different countries in his final year alone, killing thousands of innocent men, women and children. He expanded the Orwellian global surveillance programme, exposed by Snowden. He increased murderous drone strikes literally tenfold on the already psychotic Bush years. He unleashed the worst wahabbist headchoppers in the world on both Libya and Syria, destroying both countries. His actions resulted in the worst migrant crisis since WW2 and has seen the increasing polarisation of European societies. His proxy forces in Syria raped little girls to death, beheaded babies and threw gays off tall buildings to their death.

Do I need to go into GW Bush's record? Better how?

Aretheymyfeet

prawnsambo wrote: »

By any objective measure, every president was a better president than Trump. Nobody trusts the USA now. And worse, any nation that wants to, can ignore the US and do so with impunity.

'Ignore the US with impunity'? Sorry, I fail to see why this is a problem?

'Nobody trusts the USA now'. Sorry? Did you trust the Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria destroying, mass surveillance, drone bombing US before 2016? Seriously? Trust the USA, some laugh...

Dohnjoe

Aretheymyfeet wrote: »

'Ignore the US with impunity'? Sorry, I fail to see why this is a problem?

'Nobody trusts the USA now'. Sorry? Did you trust the Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria destroying, mass surveillance, drone bombing US before 2016? Seriously? Trust the USA, some laugh...

It depends on the situation and the administration.

As presidents go, Trump really stands out. He's probably one of the most extreme populists to occupy the White House. There is a constant barrage of easily disprovable lies and bizarre behaviour on an almost daily basis. You'll struggle to find a presidential letter like the one he recently sent to Erdogan. He's an overtly racist and sexist. He's anti-science. Openly fawns over autocrats and dictators. Makes shocking comments and attacks on social media. Repeated bigotry and hypocrisy. Highly questionable decisions and contradictions.

He is a complete exception, I don't know of any other US president who has come close in terms of behaviour, decisions and rhetoric.

Aretheymyfeet

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It depends on the situation and the administration.

As presidents go, Trump really stands out. He's probably one of the most extreme populists to occupy the White House. There is a constant barrage of easily disprovable lies and bizarre behaviour on an almost daily basis. You'll struggle to find a presidential letter like the one he recently sent to Erdogan. He's an overtly racist and sexist. He's anti-science. Openly fawns over autocrats and dictators. Makes shocking comments and attacks on social media. Repeated bigotry and hypocrisy. Highly questionable decisions and contradictions.

He is a complete exception, I don't know of any other US president who has come close in terms of behaviour, decisions and rhetoric.

Agreed, he's awful. But most of what you've described is pretty subjective. Extreme populist? Yeah, because you don't agree with nationalism. Many do. They're entitled to. It's a perfectly legitimate, albeit flawed, political viewpoint. Most 'freedom' movements of the past 150 years were nationalist, and indeed populist. His opposers are Globalists, why does this get a free ride?

Lies, par for the course. Remember WMDs? A million dead as a result of that lie. Tell us how Libya is doing today after Obama lied his way into that one with the 'Gaddaffi troops on viagara' false rape claims. Lies are what ppl in power do, so whilst abhorrent, not exactly exclusive to Trump.

The letter to Erdogan was child-like but in Trumps defense, it was calling on him not to slaughter the Kurds. Not sure why that's a bad thing tbh?

Overtly racist? Not to deny this but can you provide any examples?

Sexist. Accepted.

Yeah, nothing there really stands out as being beyond the pale. World leaders are egomaniacal sociopaths so not really sure how Trump differs. Much of what you say sounds uncannily like the same type of rant any Dem or neoliberal would say, not to say you are either, but you get my point?

Dohnjoe

Aretheymyfeet wrote: »

World leaders are egomaniacal sociopaths so not really sure how Trump differs.

I don't agree at all. Trying to excuse Trump by playing the false equivalence card is a weak tact.

Aretheymyfeet

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I don't agree at all. Trying to excuse Trump by playing the false equivalence card is a weak tact.

Oh, ok. Perhaps you can tell us which world leaders are not egomaniacal sociopaths then? Lots to choose from..

Might you be mistaking your feelings for objective fact? You feel he's way worse, but objectively he's pretty much the same as the rest.

Another sage response rxpected anytime now from Aretheymyfeet

pixelburp

Aretheymyfeet wrote: »

Oh, ok. Perhaps you can tell us which world leaders are not egomaniacal sociopaths then? Lots to choose from..

Might you be mistaking your feelings for objective fact? You feel he's way worse, but objectively he's pretty much the same as the rest.

Insisting world leaders are egomaniacal sociopaths is not "objective fact" either, this is your own feeling so feel free to show the studies or papers that demonstrate this as "fact". Heck, leaders like Angela Merkel are pilloried for showing what is argued as excessive compassion on matters such as the refugee crisis. There is no objectivity here, no matter how much you might claim. Even Trump is ultimately a subjective issue, no matter how awful a person he is - obviously, given his chances at re-election.

Aretheymyfeet

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Another sage response rxpected anytime now from Aretheymyfeet

Thanks. Care to provide your own take, or just here with the popcorn?

prawnsambo

Aretheymyfeet wrote: »

Really? Every President was better? Obama bombed 7 different countries in his final year alone, killing thousands of innocent men, women and children. He expanded the Orwellian global surveillance programme, exposed by Snowden. He increased murderous drone strikes literally tenfold on the already psychotic Bush years. He unleashed the worst wahabbist headchoppers in the world on both Libya and Syria, destroying both countries. His actions resulted in the worst migrant crisis since WW2 and has seen the increasing polarisation of European societies. His proxy forces in Syria raped little girls to death, beheaded babies and threw gays off tall buildings to their death.

Do I need to go into GW Bush's record? Better how?

US foreign policy has been a clusterfúck since I can remember. I'm talking about trade policy. He just breaks trade agreements and without any positive affect on US external trade. Stupid trade war with China, weird tariff impositions on European products and al it's done is close US manufacturers and harm US agriculture. The man doesn't even understand how tariffs work or what the balance of trade actually means.

gizmo

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Great to see Trump getting the Bipartisan Justice Award for his work on the First Step Act.

Just shows that the narrative which the left, along with the mainstream media, are fixated upon, oftentimes doesn't actually reflect real world America at all.

This is what I find fascinating with your style of discourse, Pete. This latest reference to the First Step Act could have been used as an interesting example of the issues faced by both parties getting legislation through both house of Congress, how there is often an intrinsic issue on the left with regard to getting progressive legislation passed which is deemed to not go far enough whereas on the right there tends to be a rejection of criminal justice reform aimed at reducing recidivism rates through rehabilitation and sentencing overhaul rather than incapacitation and how elements on both sides are often unwilling to engage in bipartisan work due to the fear of being seen to give the other side a "win" or even facing criticism from their peers.

But no, instead you laud an award given to Trump, bizarrely so given his reticence to support the bill as it passed through its various stages and, even after it became an Act, his frequent reluctance to actually regard it as an achievement of his administration outside of his petulant complaints at not being given enough credit, and take yet another pop at "the left" and the mainstream media despite this being completely at odds with reality.

For those interested in how ridiculous him getting this award is, here's a piece from back in December which tracked the passage of the Act in its final form and the players involved in the process on both sides of the aisle. It's probably also worth noting a major component of the Act is the retroactive application of the Fair Sentencing Act from 2010 and the fact that many of the reforms within the Act were also features of Chuck Grassley's Sentencing Reform and Corrections Act which had been receiving similar levels of bipartisan support since its original drafting in 2015. This iteration was, of course, killed back in 2016 when McConnell refused to put it to a vote in the Senate during the run-up to the election that year.

On a more general point though, I find awards like this somewhat amusing. There was an opinion piece on the Independent site yesterday entitled "If you think AOC is being praised too much for challenging Mark Zuckerberg, you're right" and broadly speaking I agree with the thrust of it. It is undeniably a positive thing that Ocasio-Cortez grilled Zuckerberg in the manner in which she did, just like it was an undeniably positive thing that Trump signed the First Step Act, but this is the standard the electorate should expect from their politicians, it shouldn't need to be celebrated in this kind of excessive manner, whether it's column inches in newspapers or ostentatious awards in HBCUs, when they actually work for the betterment of society.

But yea, if they just had to give someone an award, give it to Kushner or even Grassley, they at least appear to have done most of the work on the passage of the Act in both the current Administration and Republican side of the aisle over the last number of years. The rest should be told to do their ****ing jobs.

Aretheymyfeet

prawnsambo wrote: »

US foreign policy has been a clusterfúck since I can remember. I'm talking about trade policy. He just breaks trade agreements and without any positive affect on US external trade. Stupid trade war with China, weird tariff impositions on European products and al it's done is close US manufacturers and harm US agriculture. The man doesn't even understand how tariffs work or what the balance of trade actually means.

You may have a point though that's to suggest previous Presidents economic and trade policies were good. Clinton's NAFTA destroyed both US and Mexican farmers livelihoods, for example. Obama was pushing TTIP and TPP, which are hugely destructive policies. Trump appears to have killed off TTIP and TPP, though may resurrect both or worse in the future, who knows? He attacked NAFTA (rightly so), though by some accounts, his 'fix' may be even worse.

Trump is right to highlight the trade deficit with China, though again his solutions don't really cut it.

All in all, once again, he's ****, but is he really any worse than the rest and previous? Perhaps I'm wrong but you seem to almost be suggesting that US manufacturing and agriculture have not, and are not, under severe stress anyway, no Trump required?

Dohnjoe

Aretheymyfeet wrote: »

All in all, once again, he's ****, but is he really any worse than the rest and previous? Perhaps I'm wrong but you seem to almost be suggesting that US manufacturing and agriculture have not, and are not, under severe stress anyway, no Trump required?

"Sure Trump is bad, but is he any worse than <insert subjective/polarised opinion of something in the past>"

Trump is a terrible president by many measures, you agree, good. Every other first world leader is the same as Trump? No. That's not going to float and I doubt anyone is going to be bothered "proving" that to someone who I highly suspect has a thinly veiled agenda to use that as a fulcrum to unload a long list of prepared (and perceived) grievances with US politics

Igotadose

Aretheymyfeet wrote: »

Really? Every President was better? Obama bombed 7 different countries in his final year alone, killing thousands of innocent men, women and children. He expanded the Orwellian global surveillance programme, exposed by Snowden. He increased murderous drone strikes literally tenfold on the already psychotic Bush years. He unleashed the worst wahabbist headchoppers in the world on both Libya and Syria, destroying both countries. His actions resulted in the worst migrant crisis since WW2 and has seen the increasing polarisation of European societies. His proxy forces in Syria raped little girls to death, beheaded babies and threw gays off tall buildings to their death.

Do I need to go into GW Bush's record? Better how?

Uhh... drone strikes are no longer reported under Trump. Where are your data on drone strikes by administration coming from ? Tenfold increase?

Unleashed wahhabist headchoppers? Seriously? Revolution is bad, but Qaddafi was bad and his people'd had enough (lest we point out, Qatar was the biggest support for bringing him down.)

Aretheymyfeet

pixelburp wrote: »

Insisting world leaders are egomaniacal sociopaths is not "objective fact" either, this is your own feeling so feel free to show the studies or papers that demonstrate this as "fact". Heck, leaders like Angela Merkel are pilloried for showing what is argued as excessive compassion on matters such as the refugee crisis. There is no objectivity here, no matter how much you might claim. Even Trump is ultimately a subjective issue, no matter how awful a person he is - obviously, given his chances at re-election.

Actually, my position is based on a high degree of understanding of power and the psychology of power. One cannot exercise power if you are racked with empathy for those affected by your decisions. By it's very nature it attracts the most competitive, most self interested, sociopathic elements in society.

You rather naively attribute Merkel's stance on immigration to some compassion on her part. Ridiculous. Where was her compassion as Britain, the US and France bombed these very same ppl out of their homes in Libya and Syria? Or where is her compassion for the economic policies that continue to impoverish the African continent? Her position was real politik. Germany's aging population needs fresh meat to drive it's economy. That's Merkel's 'compassion'.

People like you believe by facilitating this artificially and deliberately created mass migration you are being caring and compassionate. You're really just facilitating and progressing the agenda of the very interests that drove these ppl from their homes, their communities, their countries in the first place. Simplistic self congratulatory virtue signalling at it's worst. We won't even get onto the brain drain effect such policies have on developing nations ensuring they never climb out of the mire...

pixelburp

Aretheymyfeet wrote: »

Actually, my position is based on a high degree of understanding of power and the psychology of power.

So that's a "no" then. You don't have objective fact on your side, so pause the sneering at others for the same failing.

And if you're trotting out the "people like you" and "virtue signalling" sound bite reductionism based on a challenge to back up your assertions as fact, then we're done here. The rest of your post is flannel.

Professor Moriarty

Aretheymyfeet wrote: »

Actually, my position is based on a high degree of understanding of power and the psychology of power. One cannot exercise power if you are racked with empathy for those affected by your decisions. By it's very nature it attracts the most competitive, most self interested, sociopathic elements in society.

You rather naively attribute Merkel's stance on immigration to some compassion on her part. Ridiculous. Where was her compassion as Britain, the US and France bombed these very same ppl out of their homes in Libya and Syria? Or where is her compassion for the economic policies that continue to impoverish the African continent? Her position was real politik. Germany's aging population needs fresh meat to drive it's economy. That's Merkel's 'compassion'.

People like you believe by facilitating this artificially and deliberately created mass migration you are being caring and compassionate. You're really just facilitating and progressing the agenda of the very interests that drove these ppl from their homes, their communities, their countries in the first place. Simplistic self congratulatory virtue signalling at it's worst. We won't even get onto the brain drain effect such policies have on developing nations ensuring they never climb out of the mire...

Trump is not a sociopath. He has textbook Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

duploelabs

Why can't we have a minimum post count coupled with a request access on this thread?? It's not that hard