Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

aloyisious

AP ran a story on Morrisons departure and MSN ran with it online, including this piece on how he came to be on the White House staff: Morrison, who is in his 40s, is a political appointee in the Trump White House, brought on board by former national security adviser John Bolton to address arms control matters and later shifted into his current role as a top Russia and Europe adviser. It was there that he stepped into the thick of an in-house squabble about the activities of Rudy Giuliani, Trump's personal attorney who had been conversing with Ukrainian leaders outside of traditional U.S. diplomatic circles. It may be just coincidence that both may be appearing before the committee almost together. I'm unable to post the MSN link as it's copy-proof.

BTW, with the switch of hearings from one committee, which is now holding the hearings?

Hazys

Just to show how far the office of the White House has fallen since Trump has taken over:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOMrRRRG1Z0

Trump has normalized this clown show so much that you need the sentence to sentence comparison between the current and previous presidents to just remember what the level of leadership, professionalism and just the general level of intellect of the office should be.

TomOnBoard

mcmoustache wrote: »

More leftist never-trumpers due to be questioned in secret by only the Democrats who'll force them into lying about the President next week.

https://twitter.com/dcpoll/status/1189639595119534081

Eisenberg's testimony is going to be very important. It seems like he's the guy that Hill and Vindman (and possibly others) went to following a meeting between Sondland and Ukraine representatives at which they say Sondland mentioned the Bidens/Burisma. (AFAIK, Sondland is denying ever mentioning the Bidens to anyone) . Vindman testified that he went back to Eisenberg (along with his brother who is an ethics adviser) after the Trump / Zelinskyy phone call later in July. It seems that Eisenberg is the guy who decided to move records of the call (unclear whether it was a complete or a sanitised version) into the super-secure server.

mcmoustache

mcmoustache wrote: »

Tim Morrison who is due to testify tomorrow has abruptly left his job at the NSC. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for that. Morrison is the one who said that Zelinskyy should go to a microphone and say he was investigating Biden.
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1189669778941775873

And he has just arrived to give testimony. Trump isn't having much luck keeping people away from the committee.

26000 Elephants

mcmoustache wrote: »

And he has just arrived to give testimony. Trump isn't having much luck keeping people away from the committee.

I wonder how the Trump apologists will frame/attack Morrison's character? He doesn't have a commie sounding surname or background, so I suspect it will be a tougher sell for the bigots than Vindman.

Although you lower the bar to these guys at your peril.

Outlaw Pete

Hazys wrote: »

Just to show how far the office of the White House has fallen since Trump has taken over:

Yeah, that's a funny one alright. Here's my own favourite Obama-Trump clip though ...

The Nal

Hazys wrote: »

Just to show how far the office of the White House has fallen since Trump has taken over:

If Obama apologised for one civilian drone victim every day, it would take him three years.

I'm still amazed by how people are tricked into believing the bullshít politicians come out with. Clinton and Obama are held so highly by a lot of people. Baffling.

Yes, Trump is a pig of a man and very not presidential, but hes no better or worse than any of the others.

Obama has a lot of blood on his hands. Even Bush. Lazy revisionism has painted him as some likable bumbling Texan, when in reality he was a ruthless warlord.

Professor Moriarty

The Nal wrote: »

If Obama apologised for one civilian drone victim every day, it would take him three years.

I'm still amazed by how people are tricked into believing the bullshít politicians come out with. Clinton and Obama are held so highly by a lot of people. Baffling.

Yes, Trump is a pig of a man and very not presidential, but hes no better or worse than any of the others.

Obama has a lot of blood on his hands. Even Bush. Lazy revisionism has painted him as some likable bumbling Texan, when in reality he was a ruthless warlord.

Is Trump a better POTUS than Obama?

pixelburp

The Nal wrote: »

If Obama apologised for one civilian drone victim every day, it would take him three years.

I'm still amazed by how people are tricked into believing the bullshít politicians come out with. Clinton and Obama are held so highly by a lot of people. Baffling.

Yes, Trump is a pig of a man and very not presidential, but hes no better or worse than any of the others.

Obama has a lot of blood on his hands. Even Bush. Lazy revisionism has painted him as some likable bumbling Texan, when in reality he was a ruthless warlord.

This canard. Yes he is worse, if you just even take examples such as: his tearing up of the nuclear treaty with Russia; exiting the peace deal with the Iranians; dropping out of the Paris Climate Accord and other international environmental initiatives; rolling back or removing funding for women's health orgs across the developing world; or indeed his Syrian withdrawal which has already had extreme impact there, and across the entire region - possibly for years to come, with the Kurds no longer allies. And when he does speak to international scenarios, his bumbling idiocy requires governments to hastily clarify his words (such as India quickly clarifying that no, Trump was not the honest broker in a Kashmir peacedeal)

At home, his shills in positions like the EPA have ensured rollbacks on key environmental legislation (eg regarding coal-ash or the endangered species laws), while opening up drilling in Alaska and elsewhere. Then you just have the resting incompetency in turning traditional allies and friends such as the EU into rivals via the ludicrous Trade War, that is ultimately hurting American industry.

The man is a spoofer, and while it's easy to huff about how variously awful previous presidents have been abroad, Trump doesn't even have the geopolitical sense to play the game properly, instead running roughshod over various aspects of politics, economy, environment or just the reputation of America. Two men might each hold a shotgun, but the one who doesn't even know which end to point is clearly the worse individual.

spacecoyote

The Nal wrote: »

If Obama apologised for one civilian drone victim every day, it would take him three years.

I'm still amazed by how people are tricked into believing the bullshít politicians come out with. Clinton and Obama are held so highly by a lot of people. Baffling.

Yes, Trump is a pig of a man and very not presidential, but hes no better or worse than any of the others.

Obama has a lot of blood on his hands. Even Bush. Lazy revisionism has painted him as some likable bumbling Texan, when in reality he was a ruthless warlord.

There is no American president without blood on their hands in reality.

By all accounts Trumps drone strike levels are 3 times as high as Obama's. Trumps guys just changed the reporting laws so that they don't have to tell the world about them.

So, arguably, the drone strikes under Obama, whilst terrible are at least somewhat transparent & accountable, whereas, like most things Trump, they try hide the negativity from public eyes

drunkmonkey

pixelburp wrote: »

or indeed his Syrian withdrawal which has already had extreme impact there

You mean the withdrawal where he didn't actually withdraw but ended up catching out the leader of ISIS as he thought they withdrew.
I'd call it a genius move, I find him very funny, he's the ultimate troll and he knows it.
He couldn't stay in the paris agreement it would have been political suicide. If you watched him in Colarado the other night he's done great things down there, not possible within the agreement. It's about Jobs at the end of the day.

listermint

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You mean the withdrawal where he didn't actually withdraw but ended up catching out the leader of ISIS as he thought they withdrew.
I'd call it a genius move, I find him very funny, he's the ultimate troll and he knows it.
He couldn't stay in the paris agreement it would have been political suicide. If you watched him in Colarado the other night he's done great things down there, not possible within the agreement. It's about Jobs at the end of the day.

This is as much disinformation as one can fit in any post, Possibly ever.


but sure i know its just for wind up purposes hence the terminology used in the second sentence.

Outlaw Pete

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Is Trump a better POTUS than Obama?

In many ways, of course. In some ways, maybe not.

Overall though, the US is doing far better than it was under Obama.

Job growth, strength of the economy, border security .. America is booming.

The Nal

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Is Trump a better POTUS than Obama?

Clearly not. Trump is a total prick but this canonisation of Obama, especially from Irish people, is weird. It was weird when he was running for president and its weird now.

People are easily sold I suppose. Same for these idiots we saw crying at HRCs loser party.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

In many ways, of course. In some ways, maybe not.

Overall though, the US is doing far better than it was under Obama.

Job growth, strength of the economy, border security .. America is booming.

Kind of my point. We give politicians way too much credit for this sort of stuff. The recession was caused by reckless businesses and we recovered largely due to the same people.

pixelburp

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You mean the withdrawal where he didn't actually withdraw but ended up catching out the leader of ISIS as he thought they withdrew.
I'd call it a genius move, I find him very funny, he's the ultimate troll and he knows it.
He couldn't stay in the paris agreement it would have been political suicide. If you watched him in Colarado the other night he's done great things down there, not possible within the agreement. It's about Jobs at the end of the day.

So what you're saying is that Trump destabilised an entire region, allowing Turkey and Russia to sweep in, while effectively putting the security of 100s of ISIS prisoners in doubt, just to kill one man? That's not genius, even if it were what happened, that's ludicrously short sighted.

And as to jobs, well considering those Trade Wars that were "easy to win" are hurting various American industries because of the tariffs now imposed, I call BS on that too. Trump doesn't know what he's doing, and this has been shown time and time again.

Professor Moriarty

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

In many ways, of course. In some ways, maybe not.

Overall though, the US is doing far better than it was under Obama.

Job growth, strength of the economy, border security .. America is booming.

Did Obama not steady the ship so that Trump inherited a good economy? What about the deficit? What about the long term impact of tariffs on the global economy? Also, putting the economy aside and by comparison with Obama, how is American society under Trump? Unity? Equality? Environment? International relations? How is the office of POTUS now perceived?

Professor Moriarty

The Nal wrote: »

Clearly not. Trump is a total prick but this canonisation of Obama, especially from Irish people, is weird. It was weird when he was running for president and its weird now.

People are easily sold I suppose. Same for these idiots we saw crying at HRCs loser party.

I think many Irish people agreed with much of Obama's political positions, whether one believes that he adhered to them or not. Similarly, many people were disappointed that HRC lost not because she lost but because Trump won.

pixelburp

The Nal wrote: »

Clearly not. Trump is a total prick but this canonisation of Obama, especially from Irish people, is weird. It was weird when he was running for president and its weird now.

People are easily sold I suppose. Same for these idiots we saw crying at HRCs loser party.

Another canard, and yet another bad-faith sidetrack that forces posters here to clarify. Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I do not canonise Obama, but this "they're all the same" reductionism clearly doesn't fly when there's a huge outlier causing massive disruption to economic, social, (geo)political and environmental norms.

Again, two presidents, both wielding shotguns, yet one of them frequently shows an ignorance as to basic gun safety. Who's worse in this scenarios? There is such a thing of lesser of two evils in this case, and just because some might argue that Obama was "better", doesn't mean said poster is suddenly a fanboy/fangirl.

Overheal

spacecoyote wrote: »

By all accounts Trumps drone strike levels are 3 times as high as Obama's. Trumps guys just changed the reporting laws so that they don't have to tell the world about them.

This. Was one of his earliest policy changes.

Overheal

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

In many ways, of course. In some ways, maybe not.

Overall though, the US is doing far better than it was under Obama.

Job growth, strength of the economy, border security .. America is booming.

America just reported a 1.9% quarter GDP and the fed just lowered interest rates again - the third time this year. Booming is a strong word.

Outlaw Pete

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

In many ways, of course. In some ways, maybe not.

Overall though, the US is doing far better than it was under Obama.

Job growth, strength of the economy, border security .. America is booming.

How's that deficit doing?

drunkmonkey

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think many Irish people agreed with much of Obama's political positions, whether one believes that he adhered to them or not. Similarly, many people were disappointed that HRC lost not because she lost but because Trump won.

Nearly everyone I knew was shouting for Hillary as they hated Trump, where did this hate come out of? The media that's where, it was the popular position to support, gets you out of being called names.
I'm not trolling when I say this but the world is a lot better off he won not her, very few Irish people could see what she is, RTE make her out to be some kind of Queen of Angels, they even had her over here to cry about loosing, it was disgusting lobsided TV at it's worst.
RTE are still at it, must hate trump, must be pro this, must be woke.

Christy42

Overheal wrote: »

This. Was one of his earliest policy changes.

And yet somehow Trump's love for drones needs to be repeatedly brought up against misinformation.

The US economy is not booming. It continued to grow under Trump for a little while and stalled at about the same level. Now growth is slowing down. Trump had to give out bailouts. Manufacturing (Trump's signature industry) is in recession.

Trump was delighted to talk about the Dow for his first year. Now he doesn't mention as it hasn't really grown in about two years.

everlast75

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Did Obama not steady the ship so that Trump inherited a good economy? What about the deficit? What about the long term impact of tariffs on the global economy? Also, putting the economy aside and by comparison with Obama, how is American society under Trump? Unity? Equality? Environment? International relations? How is the office of POTUS now perceived?

expect an answer to that, around the same time we get an answer about whether it was appropriate for Trump to withhold aid amongst other things for investigations and public statements about the Bidens...

James Brown

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nearly everyone I knew was shouting for Hillary as they hated Trump, where did this hate come out of? The media that's where, it was the popular position to support, gets you out of being called names.
I'm not trolling when I say this but the world is a lot better off he won not her, very few Irish people could see what she is, RTE make her out to be some kind of Queen of Angels, they even had her over here to cry about loosing, it was disgusting lobsided TV at it's worst.
RTE are still at it, must hate trump, must be pro this, must be woke.

If you are saying ignorant offensive things expect bad press. He didn't say 'I grab them by the p***y"? He didn't support the birther movement? About time Trump and his trumpeters had the balls to take responsibility for themselves.

Outlaw Pete

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Did Obama not steady the ship so that Trump inherited a good economy? What about the deficit? What about the long term impact of tariffs on the global economy? Also, putting the economy aside and by comparison with Obama, how is American society under Trump? Unity? Equality? Environment? International relations? How is the office of POTUS now perceived?

First of all, as to perception of the Office, that's something the liberal media control to a large degree. Yesterday Trump was awarding medals of honour to green berets in the White House but the main news was still the impeachment attempt nonsense. In fact his tweeting of a photoshopped joke image of him putting a medal around the hero dog's neck made more headlines and they weren't even light hearted stories. Same goes with almost all the positive stuff he does, it tends to get ignored or at most just barely covered with little amplification. To anywhere near the degree him doing something which the media could use to portray him as an incompetent racist would at least.

As to unity? Again, these are things which the left whine about non stop so they can use such things as leverage, but yet they (the left and their mainstream media counterparts) are the very ones who makes these issues worse. The left race bait for political gain constantly. Just yesterday in congress Trump was said to only want white people immigrating to America. Utter nonsense of course and only this month in the White House the Trump Administration celebrated non-whites who have to come America and made a success of their lives, legally.

As to Obama steading the ship? Come on, his last year in office he predicted nothing but doom for Trump and laughed at the notion that he had a solution with regards to improving the economy and job growth. For sure some things can't be called yet, like the long term effects of tariffs and the recent bailout but all signs look good and many experts last year predicted things would be going south fast as a result of tariffs in particular.

For a president that doesn't have the support of the house, he's doing a great job and if the media gave him a break (not going to happen) then he'd be doing a lot better. Constant attempts at undermining him and efforts to impeach him doesn't help anyone.

Igotadose

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nearly everyone I knew was shouting for Hillary as they hated Trump, where did this hate come out of? The media that's where, it was the popular position to support, gets you out of being called names.
I'm not trolling when I say this but the world is a lot better off he won not her, very few Irish people could see what she is, RTE make her out to be some kind of Queen of Angels, they even had her over here to cry about loosing, it was disgusting lobsided TV at it's worst.
RTE are still at it, must hate trump, must be pro this, must be woke.

Please. The media didn't invent it - Trump supplied it. Grab 'em by the pussy. Pocahantas. Sh1thole countries. And on, and on.
Trump's increased US troop presence everywhere. His administration is running more drone missions than previously. He's pulled out of the intermediate-range nuclear missile treaty with Russia. He's pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal, the TTIP, the TPP, with no viable replacements in mind. The world is a much *less* stable place now, than it was 4 years ago.

Within the US, his cronies have run an assault on the EPA (hey, just dumped a few more tens of thousands of oil onto South Dakota via the Keystone pipeline he rushed to approve). He's filled permanent judge positions with judges rated 'not suitable' via the ABA, including several that have never run a trial. His appointed judges only qualification is that they support a minority position (within the US) regarding women's rights. His former Atty General pushed hard to weaken the church/state barriers, battles in the court are still to be resolved there. At least his new Atty General appears to be nothing more than a toady running investigations.

Good things Trump's done? Got Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi. Signed off on a tax cut that will keep the US economy perking for a few years until the chickens come back to roost again, probably depression.

DrumSteve

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

First of all, as to perception of the Office, that's something the liberal media control to a large degree. Yesterday Trump was awarding medals of honour to green berets in the White House but the main news was still the impeachment attempt nonsense. In fact his tweeting of a photoshopped joke image of him putting a medal around the hero dog's neck made more headlines and they weren't even light hearted stories. Same goes with almost all the positive stuff he does, it tends to get ignored or at most just barely covered with little amplification. To anywhere near the degree him doing something which the media could use to portray him as an incompetent racist would at least.

As to unity? Again, these are things which the left whine about non stop so they can use such things as leverage, but yet they (the left and their mainstream media counterparts) are the very ones who makes these issues worse. The left race bait for political gain constantly. Just yesterday in congress Trump was said to only want white people immigrating to America. Utter nonsense of course and only this month in the White House the Trump Administration celebrated non-whites who have to come America and made a success of their lives, legally.

As to Obama steading the ship? Come on, his last year in office he predicted nothing but doom for Trump and laughed at the notion that he had a solution with regards to improving the economy and job growth. For sure some things can't be called yet, like the long term effects of tariffs and the recent bailout but all signs look good and many experts last year predicted things would be going south fast as a result of tariffs in particular.

For a president that doesn't have the support of the house, he's doing a great job and if the media gave him a break (not going to happen) then he'd be doing a lot better. Constant attempts at undermining him and efforts to impeach him doesn't help anyone.

Well one good way to stop getting impeached, is to stop doing crimes, maybe?

Stallingrad

Overheal wrote: »

America just reported a 1.9% quarter GDP and the fed just lowered interest rates again - the third time this year. Booming is a strong word.

Trump slated 1.9% under Obama, 1.9% under his leadership he calls "Booming!"

Overheal

As to Obama steading the ship? Come on, his last year in office he predicted nothing but doom for Trump and laughed at the notion that he had a solution with regards to improving the economy and job growth. For sure some things can't be called yet, like the long term effects of tariffs and the recent bailout but all signs look good and many experts last year predicted things would be going south fast as a result of tariffs in particular.

All signs look good? Really?