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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

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    #662
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,372 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Walter Bishop wrote: »
    The optics might be poor but it should be fairly obvious by now that the likes of Johnson, Trump, and their supporters don’t really care about that sort of thing.

    No. Johnson is breaking cover now. Hope I'm wrong but he seems to be carved from the same block as Trump and Farage. Actually, Farage is more honest.


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    #663
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,635 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Farage is in no way, shape or form even remotely honest.


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    #664
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,371 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Farage is in no way, shape or form even remotely honest.

    Just like BoJo and Drump


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    #665
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,372 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Farage is in no way, shape or form even remotely honest.

    Is he honest compared to most politicians? No. But 'honest' is a relative term. Relative to Trump and Johnson, Farage is relatively honest.


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    #666
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Is he honest compared to most politicians? No. But 'honest' is a relative term. Relative to Trump and Johnson, Farage is relatively honest.

    Farage is bankrolled by very shady characters, his motivations are very unclear (or are they?) and he has committed serious fraud by embezzeling a salary from the EU for his "assistant"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/25/eu-watchdog-considering-nigel-farage-investigation-arron-banks

    Dodgy payments to the man by Arron banks

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/12/nigel-farage-eu-salary-docked-claim-misspent-public-funds

    He is a liar, a fraud and a thief. He could possibly be a traitor.
    He goes way beyond dishonest and even beyond criminal.
    Nigel Farage should end up in prison for a long, long time.


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    #667
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,372 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Farage is bankrolled by very shady characters, his motivations are very unclear (or are they?) and he has committed serious fraud by embezzeling a salary from the EU for his "assistant"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/25/eu-watchdog-considering-nigel-farage-investigation-arron-banks

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/12/nigel-farage-eu-salary-docked-claim-misspent-public-funds

    He is a liar, a fraud and a thief. He could possibly be a traitor.
    He goes way beyond dishonest and even beyond criminal.
    Nigel Farage should end up in prison for a long, long time.

    So should Trump. Having listened to all three speak on various occasions, my impression is that Farage mostly believes what he says because he is the most committed to his cause - i.e. Brexit. Trump and Johnson will say anything as long as it pleases their base - they don't have any real political motivation other than personal ambition. Again, this doesn't make Farage an honest person.


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    #668
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    So should Trump. Having listened to all three speak on various occasions, my impression is that Farage mostly believes what he says because he is the most committed to his cause - i.e. Brexit. Trump and Johnson will say anything as long as it pleases their base - they don't have any real political motivation other than personal ambition. Again, this doesn't make Farage an honest person.

    Well, Trump is beyond anything at this stage. I want to see him behind bars, absolutely.
    Farage is just as bad as him. He doesn't care a sh*t about anything besides himself, his "concern" and accent just his front, his "ornery bloke down the pub" shtick, he's as posh as anything.
    I would trust BoJo over both of them. He mav be unprincipled, maybe even a politcal troll.
    And somehow I can't shake the feeling that he is nowhere near as malignant, selfish and dishonest as the other two.


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    #669
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,218 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    I don’t think trump is going to get caught up in the Epstein scandal, if he had anything to fear from it he’d surely be going mental about it on twitter or cooking up some distraction.


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    #670
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,702 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    So should Trump. Having listened to all three speak on various occasions, my impression is that Farage mostly believes what he says because he is the most committed to his cause - i.e. Brexit. Trump and Johnson will say anything as long as it pleases their base - they don't have any real political motivation other than personal ambition. Again, this doesn't make Farage an honest person.

    Farage is acting honestly (full committal to Brexit) for dishonest reasons (hiding the fact he's being funded by Arron Banks who stands to make a fortune if the NHS is privatised and US insurance companies are able to come in and gouge it).

    Farage knows this, but because it leads to Britain exiting the EU, he doesn't care of the consequences after that. But admitting same would have meant he'd never have been listened to and Brexit wouldn't have happened.


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    #671
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Just like BoJo and Drump

    Boris is being extremely honest: To himself.

    Everything he has done for the last few years has had one single, irreducible goal: To Make Boris Johnson, Old Etonian, The Prime Minister.

    Whether he throws the Tory party ( and the UK as a whole) down the toilet in pursuit of that goal is unimportant to him.

    His only handicap is a lack of any aptitude or ability to carry out the role. But as we have seen in the US, this is no longer a hindrance. As with Trump, his skills as a sarcastic, smart mouthed "hurler on the ditch" are being confused with statesmanship. The longer the race goes on, and the more he has to speak, the more obvious it becomes.

    But it wont matter. The common dross want their man, and they will get him.

    And deservedly so.


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    #672
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,513 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    MadYaker wrote: »
    I don’t think trump is going to get caught up in the Epstein scandal, if he had anything to fear from it he’d surely be going mental about it on twitter or cooking up some distraction.

    Like an ongoing row with the UK ambassador for example? :)


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    #673
    peddlelies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies


    Accusations and scandals bounce off Trump like he has an invisible shield, but being involved somehow with Jeffrey Epstein's child molestation/trafficking would be a bridge too far, even for him. He wouldn't survive it, no matter the distraction. Nobody would.


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    #674
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    peddlelies wrote: »
    Accusations and scandals bounce off Trump like he has an invisible shield, but being involved somehow with Jeffrey Epstein's child molestation/trafficking would be a bridge too far, even for him. He wouldn't survive it, no matter the distraction. Nobody would.

    He is involved. As is Alan Dershowitz, his #1 legal lackey on Fox News. Tip of the iceberg at the moment. This is about to get very serious. The FBI's very deliberate outreach to other victims was incredible. There are potentially hundreds of victims about to come forward, with detailed accounts of all men involved. Evidence from Epstein's properties will cement the case.


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    #675
    peddlelies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies


    Dog Man Star wrote: »
    He is involved. As is Alan Dershowitz, his #1 legal lackey on Fox News. Tip of the iceberg at the moment.

    You should probably stop stating things as fact when you have no real evidence to back them up, like I said before it's easy to say such things when accountability isn't a factor.

    In other news AOC has called for the abolishment of the DHS.


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    #676
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    It's interesting to hear people in the trade discuss the Epstein scandal and the handling it of by Alex Acosta.

    Listening to the latest free excerpt from the Cafe Insider Podcast with Preet Bahrara and his co-host Anne Milgram, also a former US Attorney, they were baffled about how Acosta met in private with Epstein's lawyers, with none of his team of colleagues present. They completely rejected the idea that it should ever happen. I think Anne Milgram who's usually quite measured described it as "bananas".

    https://www.cafe.com/cafe-insider-sample-07-08-listen-to-epstein-concensus/


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    #677
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    peddlelies wrote: »
    You should probably stop stating things as fact when you have no real evidence to back them up, like I said before it's easy to say such things when accountability isn't a factor.

    In other news AOC has called for the abolishment of the DHS.


    No she didn't. She called for the abolishment of ICE. She was then asked if she would abolish DHS and she said "I think so". Even Fox news presented that headline more accurately than you.


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    #678
    RIGOLO
    Site Banned Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭RIGOLO


    peddlelies wrote: »
    Accusations and scandals bounce off Trump like he has an invisible shield, but being involved somehow with Jeffrey Epstein's child molestation/trafficking would be a bridge too far, even for him. He wouldn't survive it, no matter the distraction. Nobody would.

    Actually if your a Democrat ex-President and you invited Jefferey Epstein to the wedding of your daughter and your name is Bill Clinton, you would survive being involved with Jefferey Epstein.

    In fact not only would you survive it for upteen years , given the connections between Bill Clinton and Epstein were first reported back in early to mid 2000s, but you would go on to be lauded and feted by the liberal left .

    The history has already been written on that story, Bill Clinton prospered post all the accusations back to early 2000s of connections with Epstein, flights , mega donor money, Clinton Foundation funding.
    The main stream liberal left biased media virtually ignored that story as it was one of their own.

    So yeah if you were a Democrat leading light, sure you would survive a long running and frequent association with scum like Epstein , its already been proven you would.


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    #679
    RIGOLO
    Site Banned Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭RIGOLO


    So the immigration issue has come full circle on the Democrats.

    To such a degree that Democrats are now posting pictures of children in cages from the Obama era .

    Well they posted the pictures to have a pop at the Trump Administration.. but once the Democrats realised they were from 2014 ( I wonder who was president then) they did a quick scramble to un-post them .

    Typical anti Trump brigade tactics .. Obama puts children in detention cages .. well its not a news story nothing to see here lets just ignore it all.
    The DHS under the Trump Administration does the same thing and suddenly all the Obama , left liberal anti-Trumpers supporters are humanitarians screaming blue murder.

    The history has already been written on that hypocrisy, theres no getting away from it.

    https://www.apnews.com/a98f26f7c9424b44b7fa927ea1acd4d4


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    #680
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,371 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    I think the previous two posters think that just because they're Democrats then they shouldn't be investigated.
    Anyone, absolutely anyone, regardless of affiliation or political loyalty should be investigated should the evidence warrent it.
    So can we leave it at that?


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    #681
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,523 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    RIGOLO wrote: »
    Actually if your a Democrat ex-President and you invited Jefferey Epstein to the wedding of your daughter and your name is Bill Clinton, you would survive being involved with Jefferey Epstein.

    In fact not only would you survive it for upteen years , given the connections between Bill Clinton and Epstein were first reported back in early to mid 2000s, but you would go on to be lauded and feted by the liberal left .

    The history has already been written on that story, Bill Clinton prospered post all the accusations back to early 2000s of connections with Epstein, flights , mega donor money, Clinton Foundation funding.
    The main stream liberal left biased media virtually ignored that story as it was one of their own.

    So yeah if you were a Democrat leading light, sure you would survive a long running and frequent association with scum like Epstein , its already been proven you would.

    Uhh, I think the other Trumper you're responding to, was talking about 'involved' as in 'involved in his depravaties.' Not, "having acquaintance/business dealings/inviting to parties'.

    Hope that clarifies it for you. Do you have any proof that Clinton was involved with the depravities that Epstein is accused of? For the record, we've seen nothing indicating either Clinton, Dershowitz, Randy Andy or Trump were. There's accusations and innuendo galore, and there is a rape allegation against Trump is all so far.

    On a different note, one you keep ignoring, what would you have done at the end of 2008 to fix the US economy, which was hemorrhaging jobs and needed an $800bn infusion from Treasury to keep from seizing up, per Hank Paulson, then the treasury secretary?


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    #682
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    RIGOLO wrote: »
    Actually if your a Democrat ex-President and you invited Jefferey Epstein to the wedding of your daughter and your name is Bill Clinton, you would survive being involved with Jefferey Epstein.

    In fact not only would you survive it for upteen years , given the connections between Bill Clinton and Epstein were first reported back in early to mid 2000s, but you would go on to be lauded and feted by the liberal left .

    The history has already been written on that story, Bill Clinton prospered post all the accusations back to early 2000s of connections with Epstein, flights , mega donor money, Clinton Foundation funding.
    The main stream liberal left biased media virtually ignored that story as it was one of their own.

    So yeah if you were a Democrat leading light, sure you would survive a long running and frequent association with scum like Epstein , its already been proven you would.

    Was Epstein at the wedding and was Bill ever elected to any office since then?


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    #683
    RIGOLO
    Site Banned Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭RIGOLO


    duploelabs wrote: »
    I think the previous two posters think that just because they're Democrats then they shouldn't be investigated.
    Anyone, absolutely anyone, regardless of affiliation or political loyalty should be investigated should the evidence warrent it.
    So can we leave it at that?

    I dont speak for the other poster .. but you think wrong.

    I didnt say because they're Democrats then they shouldnt be investigated... far from it in fact.


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    #684
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    RIGOLO wrote: »
    So the immigration issue has come full circle on the Democrats.

    To such a degree that Democrats are now posting pictures of children in cages from the Obama era .

    Well they posted the pictures to have a pop at the Trump Administration.. but once the Democrats realised they were from 2014 ( I wonder who was president then) they did a quick scramble to un-post them .

    Typical anti Trump brigade tactics .. Obama puts children in detention cages .. well its not a news story nothing to see here lets just ignore it all.
    The DHS under the Trump Administration does the same thing and suddenly all the Obama , left liberal anti-Trumpers supporters are humanitarians screaming blue murder.

    The history has already been written on that hypocrisy, theres no getting away from it.

    https://www.apnews.com/a98f26f7c9424b44b7fa927ea1acd4d4


    That seems to be over a year old.


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    #685
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,998 ✭✭✭Christy42


    MrFresh wrote: »
    That seems to be over a year old.

    Wasn't it also wrong a year ago?


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    #686
    RIGOLO
    Site Banned Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭RIGOLO


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Uhh, I think the other Trumper you're responding to, was talking about 'involved' as in 'involved in his depravaties.' Not, "having acquaintance/business dealings/inviting to parties'.

    Hope that clarifies it for you. Do you have any proof that Clinton was involved with the depravities that Epstein is accused of? For the record, we've seen nothing indicating either Clinton, Dershowitz, Randy Andy or Trump were. There's accusations and innuendo galore, and there is a rape allegation against Trump is all so far.

    On a different note, one you keep ignoring, what would you have done at the end of 2008 to fix the US economy, which was hemorrhaging jobs and needed an $800bn infusion from Treasury to keep from seizing up, per Hank Paulson, then the treasury secretary?

    You need to check your facts ...

    The treasury had over $4.5 TRILLION on its balance sheet by the end of QE1, QE2 and QE3 in 2014, having started the program in 2008 with an intiial balance sheet of 750 billion.

    So I dont know where you got your 800billion from , cos the Fed was pumping 30 billion a month into Wall Street for the bulk of Obamas Presidency .

    You seem to agree with Hank Paulsen,
    you seem to think it was a good idea to pump 30billion a month into Wall Street in what many have called the greatest transfer of wealth in history, whilst punshing middle class savers with 0 or even negative interest rates, and all the time effectively adding 8Trillion to the US national debt which is now rolling over at interest rates far in excess of when this money was conned out of American workers. And we dont even have to get into just how many (some say 0 some say 1) Wall St bankers faced Jail Time for the fraud that was the 2008 recession.
    Its a free country, your allowed to agree with all of that .

    I dont .


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    #687
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Wasn't it also wrong a year ago?

    Rigolo broke it as if it was a new story that was a new news item... It isn't.


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    #688
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,687 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Rigolo,

    For the record, if Clinton is involved in any way with Epstein's crimes, he should be locked up. Can you confirm the same should apply to Trump?


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    #689
    RIGOLO
    Site Banned Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭RIGOLO


    MrFresh wrote: »
    That seems to be over a year old.
    batgoat wrote: »
    Rigolo broke it as if it was a new story that was a new news item... It isn't.


    1 hour ago ... news story doesnt get much newer than that ..

    Like I said

    Typical anti Trump brigade tactics .. Obama puts children in detention cages .. well its not a news story nothing to see here lets just ignore it all.
    The DHS under the Trump Administration does the same thing and suddenly all the Obama , left liberal anti-Trumpers supporters are humanitarians screaming blue murder.

    The history has already been written on that hypocrisy, theres no getting away from it.
    The Democrat House Oversight and Reform Committee deleted tweets showing pictures of migrants behind fencing that were taken in 2014. The pictures were part of graphics that criticized President Trump's handling of the crisis at the U.S.-Mexico border.
    House Democrats delete tweets showing migrants in cages when Obama was in office
    by Julio Rosas
    | July 10, 2019 11:19 AM

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house-democrats-delete-tweets-showing-migrants-in-cages-when-obama-was-in-office


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    #690
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,523 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    RIGOLO wrote: »
    You need to check your facts ...

    The treasury had over $4.5 TRILLION on its balance sheet by the end of QE1, QE2 and QE3 in 2014, having started the program in 2008 with an intiial balance sheet of 750 billion.

    So I dont know where you got your 800billion from , cos the Fed was pumping 30 billion a month into Wall Street for the bulk of Obamas Presidency .
    Try reading again. Paulsen came to the POTUS at the end of 2008 talking about the need for an $800bn infusion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008
    (remember, Obama wasn't president in 2008.)
    You seem to agree with Hank Paulsen,
    you seem to think it was a good idea to pump 30billion a month into Wall Street in what many have called the greatest transfer of wealth in history, whilst punshing middle class savers with 0 or even negative interest rates, and all the time effectively adding 8Trillion to the US national debt which is now rolling over at interest rates far in excess of when this money was conned out of American workers. And we dont even have to get into just how many (some say 0 some say 1) Wall St bankers faced Jail Time for the fraud that was the 2008 recession.
    Its a free country, your allowed to agree with all of that .

    I dont .

    You're the one banging on about the deficit during the Obama years. I ask you again, what would you have done when the Secretary of the Treasury asked you (in this case, GWB) for $800bn to unfreeze the economy. This was the start of TARP. Personally, I think the risk of a serious depression in 2009 was pretty high, and jobs were being shed like crazy. Paulsen was GWB's SecTreas.

    But, this is what GWB told us all then: https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/09/print/20080924-10.html

    2013 is in fact 5 years after the bailout started. One would expect the Treasury balance to go up after that. What is your source for Treasury balances though? Considering the US runs a perennial deficit (except for briefly under Clinton) I doubt it had a huge positive balance in 2013.


    So, the bank bailout contributed to the deficit, and the Fed dropped interest rates to make money cheap.

    Frankly, I think they did the right thing, as painful as it is to say. Deficits don't really matter if everyone's out of work and starving. They should've brought more pain to the banks, though. Not nearly enough of them went under. And, undoing the fiscal restraints (Dodd-Frank for example, the Consumer safety board), won't help.

    But again, what would you have done? Let the banks fail? That really was the choice in 2008. Raised taxes instead of printing cheap money?

    And, lest we forget, Congress controlled these acts starting in 2010. It was the GOP content to do the greatest wealth transfer in history, in case that wasn't clear.


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    #691
    RIGOLO
    Site Banned Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭RIGOLO


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Rigolo,

    For the record, if Clinton is involved in any way with Epstein's crimes, he should be locked up. Can you confirm the same should apply to Trump?

    Clintons connections with Epstein were reported back in the early 2000's .

    The liberal left main stream media virtually ignored this story for 14-15 years .
    The Democratic Party ignored this involvement for 14-15 years.
    The Democratic voters ignored this involvement for 14-15 years.
    99% of anti-Trumpers ignored this involvement for 14-15 years.
    Hilary Clinton ignored this involvement for 14-15 years.
    Bob Mueller was head of the FBI during this period.
    Jefferey Epstein was a mega-donor to the Democratic Party
    Jefferey Epstein was a mega-donor to the Clinton Foundation
    ....

    my conscience is clear, I dont need to confirm anything.


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