Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

aloyisious

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Ah please Trump throw rudy under the bus so that he can unleash what he claims to have.

It would certainly make the prosecutors day, no need for subpoenas. If it wasn't so serious a matter, it'd be laughable. Imagine the president having to do a deal with Rudy to keep him quiet or getting a court injunction to stop Rudy exposing client/lawyer privileged material to the media or public, what with people speculating about what the Russians had on Don.

Gbear

Surely that would constitute probable cause to have his house raided by the FBI?

Not to mention getting charged with blackmail?
Also, getting disbarred?

MadYaker

Rudy is also under investigation for not declaring himself as a foreign agent in all this

Overheal

Kellyanne seems to be answering her own imaginary interview questions here: didnt russians interfere in 2016? A: ’ Muellers testimony was a flop!’

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cbs-brennan-presses-kellyanne-conway-why-doesnt-trump-believe-his-own-doj-intel-agencies-on-russian-interference/

Otherwise alludes that the WH will only release whatever it thinks helps them in trial, ie. Withholding evidence.

everlast75

An interesting observation.

If Trump is unchecked, the next Democratic President can ride roughshod over them - payback with interest

https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/1198670441730256897?s=19

aloyisious

I know there's a rule on Boards.ie where it comes to posting media stories in a "dumping" manner and sometimes in debates here both sides have accused the other side of just doing that without doing a double-check on stories to confirm one is not spreading fake news first. Don is always accusing the media of publishing fake stories while doing so himself in order to destroy trust in the media, in particular the "failing" NYT and MSN.

I was surprised to see in the current edition of the Washington Post a story that the White House carried out a review of Presidents Trump's decision to place a hold on Military Aid to Ukraine and found a similar story on MSN. The story states that the White House counsel's office carried out after the event research which was triggered by the congress impeachment inquiry announced in Sept.

Para 1 of the story on MSN which is very similar to the WaPo Story and actually has the WaPo paper title on its copy reads as follows: A confidential White House review of President Trump’s decision to place a hold on military aid to Ukraine has turned up hundreds of documents, including Emails, that reveal extensive efforts to generate an after-the-fact justification for the decision and a debate over whether the delay was legal, according to three people familiar with the records. Para 2 states the emails were between Mick Mulvaney and the OMB.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/white-house-review-turns-up-emails-showing-extensive-effort-to-justify-trump-e2-80-99s-decision-to-block-ukraine-military-aid/ar-BBXfSzW

If the story that the White House counsels office did carry out such a review and is holding onto it [whether or not it is currently using it for legal purposes] is true, then [separate to the WaPo/MSN story] it should at least be possible to inquire if the WH counsel did begin such a review by submitting a FOI for info.

The Office of White House Counsel advises the President, the Executive Office of the President, and the White House staff on legal issues pertaining to the President and the White House. It is often said that the office sits at the intersection of law, policy, and politics.

That position [afaik] existed way back in the Nixon era and was important in respect of it NOT being the Presidents personal counsel then I can well imagine that there might be tension between that office and Rudy Giuliani, the Presidents personal lawyer who has a different function.

aloyisious

Re the earlier post I wrote about the Navy Secretary, Don and the Navy Seal CPO, Mark Esper, the Sec of Defence has asked the Navy Sec to resign after he became aware the Navy Sec tried to cut a deal with the White House that if they did not interfere with CPO Gallagher's sentence he would ensure the CPO could retire with his Seal trident pin.

I know in terms of Don's activities, his actions might seem minor but he interfered with what are, despite being military, federal court sentences and their legal procedures by doing what he did. IMO, people might need to heed that fact and worry about what he might try to do with civil federal court sentences and procedures. The judges in Courts-martial are trained legal officers and very knowledgeable in terms of appropriate sentences and sentencing procedures.

mcmoustache

House Intel has tapes;

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-intelligence-committee-possession-video-audio-recordings-giuliani/story?id=67276448

Overheal

Interview Schiff have this afternoon on MTP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BOihI4CxaU

So instead of using the courts to compel Bolton to testify they may have Chief Justice Roberts force the issue in the Senate Trial

beggars_bush

Trump interfering in the running of the military discipline and court martial system is ironic considering the lengths himself and daddy went to, to ensure he never enlisted

Gbear

On the Senate trial, is there anything stopping the Republicans from just skipping the whole process and heading straight to the vote?

Is there a formalised structure to it that must be adhered to?

Itssoeasy

Gbear wrote: »

On the Senate trial, is there anything stopping the Republicans from just skipping the whole process and heading straight to the vote?

Is there a formalised structure to it that must be adhered to?

There isn't a formalised structure other than it takes 2/3 majority to remove and the Chief Justice is in charge. Well they have a recent example of how it's done with Clinton.

Christy42

everlast75 wrote: »

An interesting observation.

If Trump is unchecked, the next Democratic President can ride roughshod over them - payback with interest

https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/1198670441730256897?s=19

I have seen it mentioned plenty of times. If someone like Bernie gets in they can quickly simply declare a national emergency on healthcare or gun control. Trump set the precedent and the president would have the power to do so.

Obviously I would prefer they deal with this in a more democratic fashion. The US needs to pull away from the more doctorial style that Trump has attempted (and largely failed) to implement.

Hopefully whoever gets in decides to use the chance to reduce presidential power in these sorts of cases. Should be easy to get bipartisan support as the Republicans will be happy to reduce the power of a democratic president and Democrats reduce the effect of someone else like Trump getting in.

woohoo!!!

beggars_bush wrote: »

Trump interfering in the running of the military discipline and court martial system is ironic considering the lengths himself and daddy went to, to ensure he never enlisted

Seems to be much ado about nothing. As president he can do this and ask for Spencer to resign. Trump should have officially requested the pardon, rather than tweeting it. I would have to see evidence of Trump giving pardons vs other presidents to comment as to whether or not it's being overdone. I know with Snowden for example that Obama would never pardon him.

Edit: on the scale of offences to pardon, this one re posing is minor really

DrumSteve

aloyisious wrote: »

It would certainly make the prosecutors day, no need for subpoenas. If it wasn't so serious a matter, it'd be laughable. Imagine the president having to do a deal with Rudy to keep him quiet or getting a court injunction to stop Rudy exposing client/lawyer privileged material to the media or public, what with people speculating about what the Russians had on Don.

What a mental world we live in now.

Rudy basically saying he has incriminating evidence on the president and no one really bats an eye lid.

prawnsambo

aloyisious wrote: »

Re the earlier post I wrote about the Navy Secretary, Don and the Navy Seal CPO, Mark Esper, the Sec of Defence has asked the Navy Sec to resign after he became aware the Navy Sec tried to cut a deal with the White House that if they did not interfere with CPO Gallagher's sentence he would ensure the CPO could retire with his Seal trident pin.

I know in terms of Don's activities, his actions might seem minor but he interfered with what are, despite being military, federal court sentences and their legal procedures by doing what he did. IMO, people might need to heed that fact and worry about what he might try to do with civil federal court sentences and procedures. The judges in Courts-martial are trained legal officers and very knowledgeable in terms of appropriate sentences and sentencing procedures.

By all accounts, Gallagher is a psychopath. Hard to understand how he got off so lightly,


These have to be war crimes.

Gbear

Itssoeasy wrote: »

There isn't a formalised structure other than it takes 2/3 majority to remove and the Chief Justice is in charge. Well they have a recent example of how it's done with Clinton.

Then they'd be mad to allow testimony or any trial of actual substance to go through.

And it's not like their base won't buy the "it's a witch hunt so we didn't dignify it with a proper trial, so let's get back to working for the American people" bull****.

And for everyone else, skipping it would likely be less damaging to Trump than continuously discussing his crimes.
And **** knows the Republicans don't want Donny testifying himself.

Zubeneschamali

Itssoeasy wrote: »

There isn't a formalised structure other than it takes 2/3 majority to remove and the Chief Justice is in charge.

According to wikipedia:

The Senate has formal Rules and Procedures of Practice in the Senate When Sitting on Impeachment Trials. with a link to this .pdf:

Rules and Procedures of Practice in the Senate When Sitting on Impeachment Trials

Overheal

Perry likens Trump to King Solomon and King David :rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/CourtneyHagle/status/1198654816928579584?s=20

Hint: America is not a monarchy

bad2dabone

Overheal wrote: »

Perry likens Trump to King Solomon and King David :rolleyes:


Hint: America is not a monarchy

This is absolutely bat**** insane stuff

pixelburp

Overheal wrote: »

Perry likens Trump to King Solomon and King David :rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/CourtneyHagle/status/1198654816928579584?s=20

Hint: America is not a monarchy

If America ever dives into full Egypt, Turkey style autocracy, it's broadcast like Fox's that'll have prepared the ground. Sideshows Bob's words (on a Fox show no less)!become more prophetic as that news channel continues to output Dear Leader sycophancy.

Remember the Fairness Doctrine and lament.

Itssoeasy

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

According to wikipedia:

The Senate has formal Rules and Procedures of Practice in the Senate When Sitting on Impeachment Trials. with a link to this .pdf:

Rules and Procedures of Practice in the Senate When Sitting on Impeachment Trials

Okay but my reply was about the conditions set out in the constitution which is I believe is what I posted. Those were the only two things said about impeachment. The rules posted above were clearly made as a result of the first impeachment hearing.

aloyisious

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Seems to be much ado about nothing. As president he can do this and ask for Spencer to resign. Trump should have officially requested the pardon, rather than tweeting it. I would have to see evidence of Trump giving pardons vs other presidents to comment as to whether or not it's being overdone. I know with Snowden for example that Obama would never pardon him.

Edit: on the scale of offences to pardon, this one re posing is minor really

If you wish to have the enemy respect your dead, then it's best to lead by example. CPO Gallagher's practices went against that. There is also the request system when it comes to pardons [plus the normal court of appeals route] which was set aside by Don in CPO Gallagher's case and the 2 other courts-martial sentencing decisions he set aside at the same time. His decisions were simply a case of emperor politics as usual with Don.

Edit: Not five, but two other sentencing decisions.

26000 Elephants

So, the two turkeys lined up to receive the traditional Thanksgiving 'pardon' from the President have arrived in Washington and are being put up at a top city centre hotel.

Trumps press secretary has assured the media that the naming of the turkeys as "Roger Stone" and "Paul Manafort" is just a coincidence.



Edit: Note to Outlaw Pete: This is satire. There is no suggestion that Trump has actually renamed the turkeys after 2 of his convicted associates in an effort to surreptitiously pardon them. However, there is equally no clear evidence that this did not cross his mind.

serfboard

Overheal wrote: »

Perry likens Trump to King Solomon and King David
Hint: America is not a monarchy

pixelburp wrote: »

If America ever dives into full Egypt, Turkey style autocracy, it's broadcast like Fox's that'll have prepared the ground.

Whatever about an autocracy, there are plenty of people who would like America to become a (Christian) Theocracy - it would suit both the evangelicals and the billionaires who buy elections.

Cody montana

"This is the first Thanksgiving in American history where the President will pardon a turkey and everyone will wonder what war crimes it committed."

Itssoeasy

Seems like the GOP are prepared to be the engineers on the titanic(although not even remotely as courageous) and go down with trump.

EltonJohn69

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Seems like the GOP are prepared to be the engineers on the titanic(although not even remotely as courageous) and go down with trump.

to use another boat analogy.... they are in to too deep now to jump ship now ......

isohon

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Seems like the GOP are prepared to be the engineers on the titanic(although not even remotely as courageous) and go down with trump.

They don't see that way, and they may be right.

1. They know they have manipulated/gerrymandered the electoral system to their outrageous advantage.

2. They know they have stacked the courts, and the courts have shown themselves unwilling to countermand them.

3. Trump has proven that they have an absolutely solid impenetrable base, so long as he is in the vanguard.

4. Aren't all bets off when you know your side doesn't care whether you follow the rules, and the other side is basically impotent in terms of actually doing anything about it?

Since we are doing boat things: who cares if the ship is sunk, and the lifeboats turned over, so long as you are sitting on-top of the upside down with the oar in hand?

Itssoeasy

So add CNN anchor John king to Nicolle Wallace of MSNBC who clearly are sick of skirting around the Trump/GOP carry on. He played a clip of Devin nunes refusing to answer a question by a Fox News anchor about the allegations that nunes meet with Schokin(i know I’ve butchered that name) in Vienna and he blames the “90 % of the media is corrupt” to which John king said “hor****”

I wouldn’t use the language they use personally as I think that just add fuel for the GOP to use again the so called “fake news,” but what I would do is use the word “lie” more as let’s call it for what it is. Lies and bull****.